The Resurrection is for all people (thank you Yeshua!)

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

What do you believe?

  • All are.

    Votes: 4 57.1%
  • All are not.

    Votes: 3 42.9%

  • Total voters
    7

Waiting on him

Well-Known Member
Dec 21, 2018
11,674
6,096
113
56
North America
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
No...I am not of "the heavenly calling"......the elect are raised to be "kings and priests" ruling with Christ in his heavenly Kingdom for 1000 years. (Revelation 20:6) I have the hope of being an earthly subject of that Kingdom....those mentioned in Revelation 21:2-4.


Christendom seems to place high hopes in modern Jerusalem, which has long had a commanding voice in the affairs religion and politics.
We can fail to get the everlasting life that we desire if we listen to what false teachers have to say in this most critical time of all human history.

According to the infallible Word of the God, whom Christendom professes to worship, that system of nominal, professed Christianity is doomed, even as Jerusalem of the prophet Jeremiah’s day was. (Jeremiah 6:1-8) By means of faithful ones, fully dedicated to God as Jeremiah was, Christendom has been duly warned of the sure destruction in store for her.
Just like the final days of Jerusalem in Jeremiah’s time, Jehovah has raised up his anointed witnesses to be like a modern Jeremiah. (2 Chronicles 36:15-16) Regularly, to the church members of Christendom, Jehovah has sent his Christian witnesses, as if, “daily getting up early and sending them.” (Jeremiah 7:25, 13) But like ancient Israel, no one is taking notice.....

Christendom’s “prophets” and “priests” do not like to have their “flocks” disturbed, so they give them false assurances that disarm God’s prophecies. It was like that in Jeremiah’s day. It was like that in the days of Christ’s apostles. (Jeremiah 5:20-21; Matthew 13:13-15; Acts 28:25-27) Do we want to be like those misled people and refuse to heed the warning? That is up to us....
It appears you are an intellectual, so let’s take a different route. What if I told you that you had already lived an entire life in which you heard the gospel of Jesus Christ and you believed it so earnestly to the core of your being that you persevered to the end and one the prize once already?

This is an absolute undeniable fact. You have to see that when it began there were a hundred million just like you who had the same instructions from your hometown,but you believed so earnestly you won the prize.

That’s right everyone walking this earth right now in this reality had to have believed what was written on their dna or they wouldn’t be here. Yep, ever athiest, pagan, scientist, Christian, or they never would have been conceived.

Now you have these individuals saying that since your a woman I assume, that you cant win the prize?


You see when the race began some were real excited and joyful then they suddenly realized it was hard and they fell away others wanted to just stay where they were and perished, but not you you pressed towards the mark, even though you knew it was going to cost you everything.

Many run the race, but only one gets the prize!
 
Last edited:

Earburner

Well-Known Member
Feb 2, 2019
6,564
1,545
113
74
South Carolina
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I have no idea what that is supposed to mean...? God conveyed his prophesies to his people in their own language....was that difficult to understand? However the prophets did not always know exactly what they were prophesying because the details were not obvious when the fulfillment was centuries into the future.


What has Isaiah 55:8-9 got to do with the subject at hand?
Read in context it says....
"Seek the Lord while He may be found;
call to Him while He is near.
7 Let the wicked one abandon his way
and the sinful one his thoughts;
let him return to the Lord,
so He may have compassion on him,
and to our God, for He will freely forgive.

8 “For My thoughts are not your thoughts,

and your ways are not My ways.”
This is the Lord’s declaration.
9 “For as heaven is higher than earth,

so My ways are higher than your ways,
and My thoughts than your thoughts.
10 For just as rain and snow fall from heaven
and do not return there
without saturating the earth
and making it germinate and sprout,
and providing seed to sow
and food to eat,
11 so My word that comes from My mouth

will not return to Me empty,
but it will accomplish what I please

and will prosper in what I send it to do.”

The prophesy always came true.....or it would in the future.

The whole tenor of the Scriptures, including the teachings of God’s Son, was to the gaining of understanding of God’s purposes, the doing of his will, and the attaining of salvation to life are dependent primarily upon the individual’s heart.

The Bible is unique in its ability to “discern thoughts and intentions of the heart,” revealing what kind of persons we really are. (Hebrews 4:12-13) It is clear from the Scriptures that God has not made knowledge of himself something to be acquired without effort. (Matthew 7:7-8)

Reference to "digging for hidden treasure" indicates that some time and effort is involved in understanding the Bible's message. God's spirit is obviously needed to make things clear....and we are reminded to ask God for help when we need it.

It is also evident that God has caused his purposes to be revealed to humble ones and hidden from haughty ones.’ (James 4:6) So, the fact that individuals try to justify their rejection of its message, its reproof, and its discipline, does not show any imperfection on the part of the Bible.....rather, it illustrates the perfection of the Bible and its Author, who helps his people to understand the deeper things contained in his word. Some however, will just not "get it". (Acts 28:23-28; 1 Corinthians 1:22-25)
AJ wrote:
"What has Isaiah 55:8-9 got to do with the subject at hand?"
EB's reply: with hi-lites, the KJV and Strong's references for emphasis on the Lord's understanding by the Amillinnialist view:

Zechariah 4[6] Then he answered and spake unto me, saying, This is the word of the LORD unto Zerubbabel, saying,
Not by [human] might, [effort] nor by [religious] power, [persuasion] [H3581, H2428]
but by my spirit, saith the LORD of hosts.

[7] Who art thou, O great [H1419 insolent] mountain [H2022 country, being Israel]?
before Zerubbabel thou shalt become a plain: [H4334-strait, a level place]
and he [The LORD] shall BRING FORTH [from everlasting] the headstone [Daniel 2:35-36-Jesus] thereof with shoutings, crying, Grace, grace unto IT [unto the mountain of Israel]. [John 1:16-17].

> And "by [his] Spirit", ever since Pentecost, the headstone has filled the whole earth [Daniel 2:35-36], and He of Himself [Jesus] has become a "great [H7729-chief] mountain" [H2906- rock].
 
Last edited:

Earburner

Well-Known Member
Feb 2, 2019
6,564
1,545
113
74
South Carolina
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I have no idea what that is supposed to mean...? God conveyed his prophesies to his people in their own language....was that difficult to understand? However the prophets did not always know exactly what they were prophesying because the details were not obvious when the fulfillment was centuries into the future.
 

Earburner

Well-Known Member
Feb 2, 2019
6,564
1,545
113
74
South Carolina
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
^ The prophets had no idea in which of the three (3) appearances of the Lord (mortal flesh, Holy Spirit, immortal Glory), His judgments and actions would be manifested.
Hence: Isaiah 55:8-9.
 

BarneyFife

Well-Known Member
Dec 19, 2019
9,119
6,351
113
Central PA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
There are some people on the board, who may have a difficult time accepting this as truth, however having people continuously try to combat this notion, I’m going to post a view points here of general references to Resurrection being for all people.


  • “And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, Some to everlasting life, Some to shame and everlasting contempt.”
  • ‭‭Daniel‬ ‭12:2‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

  • “Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.”
  • ‭‭John‬ ‭5:28-29‬ ‭NKJV‬‬
  • “I have hope in God, which they themselves also accept, that there will be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and the unjust.”



    • ‭‭Acts‬ ‭24:15‬ ‭NKJV‬‬
    • “The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works.”
    • ‭‭Revelation‬ ‭20:13‬ ‭NKJV‬‬
Now I do have belief that’s Jesus has come and returned and the resurrection for them in that day in age had come to fruition as promised by Jesus and I continue to believe these principles still stand today; even if you still believe Jesus Christ has not come yet.

These are just 5 Scriptures that prove that people will be resurrected from the dead, regardless of being justified in Christ not justified in Christ.

If you would like to debate this please feel free just know that Resurrection is a Ket essential in the Gospel of Christ because he did raise from the dead! God raised him!

Shalom

- Matthew Gallagher
.
.

I'm not sure about the purpose of phrasing your claim (with which I agree, btw) the way you have chosen to do so:

"The Resurrection is for all people (thank you Yeshua!)"

...as if this was good news for everyone.

To those who have done evil, who are to meet with shame and everlasting contempt, this is not good news at all!

¿ ¿ ¿ ¿ ¿ ¿ ¿

.
.
 

Aunty Jane

Well-Known Member
Sep 16, 2021
5,360
2,389
113
Sydney
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
It appears you are an intellectual, so let’s take a different route. What if I told you that you had already lived an entire life in which you heard the gospel of Jesus Christ and you believed it so earnestly to the core of your being that you persevered to the end and one the prize once already?

This is an absolute undeniable fact. You have to see that when it began there were a hundred million just like you who had the same instructions from your hometown,but you believed so earnestly you won the prize.

That’s right everyone walking this earth right now in this reality had to have believed what was written on their dna or they wouldn’t be here. Yep, ever athiest, pagan, scientist, Christian, or they never would have been conceived.

Now you have these individuals saying that since your a woman I assume, that you cant win the prize?


You see when the race began some were real excited and joyful then they suddenly realized it was hard and they fell away others wanted to just stay where they were and perished, but not you you pressed towards the mark, even though you knew it was going to cost you everything.

Many run the race, but only one gets the prize!
Is this based on belief in reincarnation? May I ask where you got this idea? Certainly from no source that would be credible to me.

For me, there is but one source of spiritual truth, left to the world and protected down through time by its author.....if you cannot provide scriptural reference for your assertion, I’m afraid that is what it will remain.

Your “absolute undeniable fact” has nothing to make such....apart from your belief that it is “undeniable”. Surely you can do better than that? Let’s hear the evidence....:watching and waiting:
 

Aunty Jane

Well-Known Member
Sep 16, 2021
5,360
2,389
113
Sydney
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
AJ wrote:
"What has Isaiah 55:8-9 got to do with the subject at hand?"
EB's reply: with hi-lites, the KJV and Strong's references for emphasis on the Lord's understanding by the Amillinnialist view:

Zechariah 4[6] Then he answered and spake unto me, saying, This is the word of the LORD unto Zerubbabel, saying,
Not by [human] might, [effort] nor by [religious] power, [persuasion] [H3581, H2428]
but by my spirit, saith the LORD of hosts.

[7] Who art thou, O great [H1419 insolent] mountain [H2022 country, being Israel]?
before Zerubbabel thou shalt become a plain: [H4334-strait, a level place]
and he [The LORD] shall BRING FORTH [from everlasting] the headstone [Daniel 2:35-36-Jesus] thereof with shoutings, crying, Grace, grace unto IT [unto the mountain of Israel]. [John 1:16-17].

> And "by [his] Spirit", ever since Pentecost, the headstone has filled the whole earth [Daniel 2:35-36], and He of Himself [Jesus] has become a "great [H7729-chief] mountain" [H2906- rock].
Please don’t quote the KJV to me.....it’s archaic language leaves me confused and frustrated. Do you speak like that in everyday life? Why do you think the Bible was translated into English...or any language for that matter? Translations are useless if they do not convey the language of the day....
Any other modern English translation would be better than that old dinosaur. I have no idea why people cling to it as if God himself wrote it. The English language has changed and we had better change with it if we do not want to lose sight of the plain truth. It is the last Bible I would recommend for study.

If you would like to put that into plain English, perhaps I might be able to provide a reply....?

If you are saying that all things in God’s purpose are guided by his spirit, then I will agree, but I have no idea what all of that is supposed to mean in our conversation....please explain...in plain English.
 

Aunty Jane

Well-Known Member
Sep 16, 2021
5,360
2,389
113
Sydney
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
The prophets had no idea in which of the three (3) appearances of the Lord (mortal flesh, Holy Spirit, immortal Glory), His judgments and actions would be manifested.
Please provide scriptural reference to "the three (3) appearances of the Lord (mortal flesh, Holy Spirit, immortal Glory)" perhaps then I may have something to go on......up to now, none of your posts make a lick of sense to me.
dunno
 

Earburner

Well-Known Member
Feb 2, 2019
6,564
1,545
113
74
South Carolina
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Please provide scriptural reference to "the three (3) appearances of the Lord (mortal flesh, Holy Spirit, immortal Glory)" perhaps then I may have something to go on......up to now, none of your posts make a lick of sense to me.
dunno
I previously posted it on the previous page.
Here it is again:
All of the Church has been derailed by the religion(s) of "church-ianity".

In all actuality, there are three appearances/comings of the Lord:
1. In the likeness of our mortal flesh.
2. In the Holy Spirit of truth.
3. In the immortality of His newness of Life.
I do believe that all here can choose which of the three is virtually unobservable. John 14:15-20.
John.14[18] I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you [being the Comforter of His Holy Spirit].
Edit: Also see Revelation 3:20
 
Last edited:

Earburner

Well-Known Member
Feb 2, 2019
6,564
1,545
113
74
South Carolina
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Please don’t quote the KJV to me.....it’s archaic language leaves me confused and frustrated. Do you speak like that in everyday life? Why do you think the Bible was translated into English...or any language for that matter? Translations are useless if they do not convey the language of the day....
Any other modern English translation would be better than that old dinosaur. I have no idea why people cling to it as if God himself wrote it. The English language has changed and we had better change with it if we do not want to lose sight of the plain truth. It is the last Bible I would recommend for study.

If you would like to put that into plain English, perhaps I might be able to provide a reply....?

If you are saying that all things in God’s purpose are guided by his spirit, then I will agree, but I have no idea what all of that is supposed to mean in our conversation....please explain...in plain English.
Please don't stub your toe over the most famous Bible version in all the world, by which many billions have learned from the KoG/KoH Himself, about how He is the only way for God's salvation and redemption, these past 411 years.
 

Aunty Jane

Well-Known Member
Sep 16, 2021
5,360
2,389
113
Sydney
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
All of the Church has been derailed by the religion(s) of "church-ianity".
Absolutely agree.....as it was foretold, the "church" would be corrupted in exactly the same way as Judaism was when Jesus came the first time.
But he would again find God's worship polluted by the "traditions of men" upon his return. Only a minority would be eager to ditch the obvious corruption in favor of the truth. The majority would treat them as heretics without realizing that they themselves had swallowed heresy, hook, line and sinker. (John 15:18-21)

In all actuality, there are three appearances/comings of the Lord:
1. In the likeness of our mortal flesh.
2. In the Holy Spirit of truth.
3. In the immortality of His newness of Life.
Yes, 1) Christ came in human form in order to fulfill his role as redeemer of the faithful, and to teach his fellow Jews the truth about his Father....something that had been lost over the centuries since God's last prophet was sent to them.....The Father was now sending his son to collect the "lost sheep of the house of Israel". Jesus had already consigned the hypocritical Jewish leaders to "gehenna"...they were incorrigible.

John 18:37....
"So Pilate said to him: “Well, then, are you a king?” Jesus answered: “You yourself are saying that I am a king. For this I have been born, and for this I have come into the world, that I should bear witness to the truth. Everyone who is on the side of the truth listens to my voice.”

2) Since there is no scripture that speaks of the holy spirit as God, I do not see the holy spirit as a manifestation of Jesus, but as a means to demonstrate that God had shifted his favor from the old Jewish system to the newly formed Christian arrangement.
The gifts of the spirit along with the deeper truths imparted by it, cleared up a lot of things that were not yet understood by the chosen ones.
And still deeper truths were to come by means of those who had God's spirit (Christ's apostles) and these were able to impart its gifts to others.

3) I see Christ's return as his second manifestation......his "presence" (parousia) which was to come first, was to guide and direct his slaves in the work he had assigned to them. This was not a visible presence but revealed in a "sign" which involved important world events. (Matthew 24:3-14)
His disciples were always engaged in the preaching of the "good news" of God's Kingdom, but it was rather confined in the first century.

Before he left the earth, Jesus said that he would be "with" his disciples in the greatest preaching work that world had ever seen....to be accomplished in "all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations". (Matthew 24:14) This was to take place as part of the "sign".

Then we have the third manifestation when he comes as judge of all mankind....at the conclusion of the last days, when he would bring "the end" of this entire world system (Daniel 2:44)...and the introduction of his Kingdom as the only ruling authority on earth. What a relief that will be for redeemed mankind. (Revelation 21:2-4)

I do believe that all here can choose which of the three is virtually unobservable. John 14:15-20.
John.14[18] I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you [being the Comforter of His Holy Spirit].
The holy spirit was sent from the Father to comfort Christ's disciples because animosity would grow as the persecution against them increased.

Why does the Bible use such personal pronouns as “he” and “himself” with reference to the “Spirit of truth”? If the spirit is not a person, does the Bible refer to the “helper” or “Paraclete” as “he” instead of “it”? Pa·raʹkle·tos is Scripturally treated as the masculine form of the word. In Greek, if one uses the word “Paraclete", the pronouns applied to it must match in gender—“he” and “him”. It does not personify the holy spirit.

Is that not what Jesus did when he was invited for an evening meal, such as with Lazarus and his sisters? (Luke 10:38-42)

Christ's disciples are acting as his representatives when they call on people with his message of salvation. (Matthew 10:11-14) As hospitality was incumbent on Jewish hosts, it was not unusual for people passing through to be welcomed in for a meal and to have their feet washed and even a place to spend the night.

This message to the congregation in La·o·di·ceʹa was an appeal because Jesus told them...
"I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were cold or else hot. 16 So because you are lukewarm and neither hot nor cold, I am going to vomit you out of my mouth. 17 Because you say, “I am rich and have acquired riches and do not need anything at all,” but you do not know that you are miserable and pitiful and poor and blind and naked. . . . .All those for whom I have affection, I reprove and discipline. So be zealous and repent." Then he spoke the words of Revelation 3:20, telling them that he was right there ready to take a meal with them when they repented.
 

Earburner

Well-Known Member
Feb 2, 2019
6,564
1,545
113
74
South Carolina
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Why does the Bible use such personal pronouns as “he” and “himself” with reference to the “Spirit of truth”? If the spirit is not a person, does the Bible refer to the “helper” or “Paraclete” as “he” instead of “it”? Pa·raʹkle·tos is Scripturally treated as the masculine form of the word. In Greek, if one uses the word “Paraclete", the pronouns applied to it must match in gender—“he” and “him”. It does not personify the holy spirit.
I have no issues of what you have said in the context of your post. In that I can say that we agree with each other for the most part. However, as I have said, I agree with the Amillennial view, in regards to the 1000 years. To me, that has been taking place spiritually since Pentecost.

As to that which I am replying to now, I disagree with your conclusion of the usage of personal pronouns to describe the Holy Spirit of God.

Since Jesus is the express IMAGE of the Father, we must not discount the origin of His Being. He was "brought forth" (not created) from out of the Eternal Being of God Himself, before the foundation of the world.

Personally, I do not hold to the Trinitarian view, but rather the the Binitarian view. GOD Father and God the Son, together are one together. Therefore the Holy Spirit is simply both the Personages of God and the Son, each dwelling and abiding together within each of us. Iows, we cannot have one without the other. Though both are equally the Godhead, each are a personification of who they are.
Jesus explained it this way, in the plural:

John.14[23] Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
John.14[28] Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: FOR my Father is greater than I.

Therefore, I do not see that the Holy Spirit is another form of God's Being, equal to God.
 
Last edited:

Earburner

Well-Known Member
Feb 2, 2019
6,564
1,545
113
74
South Carolina
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Is that not what Jesus did when he was invited for an evening meal, such as with Lazarus and his sisters? (Luke 10:38-42)

Christ's disciples are acting as his representatives when they call on people with his message of salvation. (Matthew 10:11-14) As hospitality was incumbent on Jewish hosts, it was not unusual for people passing through to be welcomed in for a meal and to have their feet washed and even a place to spend the night.
Yes. This quite literally, but spiritually, is the true unobservable second coming of Christ. In each generation, by His Spirit, He has been coming to each of us personally, ever since Pentecost.
We either open the figurative door of our heart and let Him in, or we ignore Him and/or neglect to answer His "knocking"/calling to us.

His third coming will be His physical return from Heaven, in all His Immortal Glory. That without a doubt, will be very observable.

Yes, we are ambassadors for Christ in His stead, but we have no power or authority to save anyone of ourselves. That ability is only by the power of God Himself. We sow His seed of truth, as one who plants and/or waters it, but it is God who enables it's birth into NEW life, and it's growth.

Therefore, in one aspect I do agree with your approach of us being ambassadors. It is the work of Christ that we have been appointed to and anointed to do, having Him within us.
Matt.23[39] For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

Iows, the KoG/KoH, being Jesus Himself, is NOW still, coming to us, knocking on everyone's heart, which is in many ways unobservable. Luke 17:20.
 
Last edited:

Aunty Jane

Well-Known Member
Sep 16, 2021
5,360
2,389
113
Sydney
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
Personally, I do not hold to the Trinitarian view, but rather the the Binitarian view. GOD Father and God the Son, together are one together. Therefore the Holy Spirit is simply both the Personages of God and the Son, each dwelling and abiding together within each of us. Iows, we cannot have one without the other. Though both are equally the Godhead, each are a personification of who they are.
Jesus explained it this way, in the plural:
In what way is God “plural”? When he is working in tandem with his “firstborn” son....the one “through” whom he created all things. (Colossians 1:15-17, John 1:2-3) If God is the Creator, and Jesus is the agency “through” whom he made everything, that does not automatically make one God in two presentations....it is clearly two separate personages as the scriptures confirm. The pre-human Jesus is “the only begotten son” of his Father. The very fact that he is “begotten” means that he needed a begetter who cause his existence, and who existed before him. And the fact that they call themselves “Father” and “Son” makes no sense unless we understand that relationship in our own lives.

Jesus was not “begotten” at his human birth, but was “with” his Father “in the beginning”. This “firstborn” Son was "only begotten" meaning that he is the only direct creation of his Father....who is also his God....even in heaven.
Does one part of God worship an equal part of himself? (Revelation 3:12)

John.14[23] Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
This is not proof that the two are one person, but is confirmation that Jesus was “with” his Father as he said. When he made the promise to his elect that he was going to “prepare a place” for them “in his Father’s house”....it’s not the son’s house....but he lives with his Father in that abode.....and he said that they would be “one” with him, as he was “one” with his Father......(John 17:22) This is a unity of thought and purpose.

How does Jesus call his Father “the only true God”, if he too is God? (John 17:3)

John.14[28] Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: FOR my Father is greater than I.

Therefore, I do not see that the Holy Spirit is another form of God's Being, equal to God.
I do not see the Holy Spirit as anything but the exercise of God’s power, directed to wherever and to whomever he wishes. It “fills” people and can give them supernatural powers. Even Jesus had no supernatural powers before his baptism when he received the Holy Spirit.

If the Father is “greater” than the son, then the son cannot be equal to his God.

If we need a “mediator” between us and God....then why do we not need a mediator between us and Jesus? There is too much scripture that argues with even a binitarian view of God. (Deuteronomy 6:4)

Yes. This quitexisted before him. literally, but spiritually, is the true unobservable second coming of Christ. In each generation, by His Spirit, He has been coming to each of us personally, ever since Pentecost.
We either open the figurative door of our heart and let Him in, or we ignore Him and/or neglect to answer His "knocking"/calling to us.

His third coming will be His physical return from Heaven, in all His Immortal Glory. That without a doubt, will be very observable.
In the parable of the “wheat and the weeds”, it was said by Jesus that the counterfeit “Christianity” sown by the devil was planted “while men were sleeping”. This could mean one of two things...either it was after the death of the apostles, whose presence was acting as a restraint for the coming apostasy, or it was while the leaders of the church were spiritually “sleeping” and allowed false ideas to infiltrate the church with little resistance in the following centuries. Regardless, it means that after Jesus and his apostles were gone from the world scene, the devil would ‘do his thing’ and deceive the gullible....leading them down the wrong path.... (Matthew 7:13-14)... “church-inanity” or Christendom was the result. They accomplished this by forbidding the people access to the Bible. The common man could not check God’s word for themselves so to see if what they were being taught was true. Only priests like Martin Luther, who did have access to the scriptures, could see clearly what the corrupted church was up to. He risked death to speak up.

Therefore, in one aspect I do agree with your approach of us being ambassadors. It is the work of Christ that we have been appointed to and anointed to do, having Him within us.
Having Christ “in” his elect, means that they are in complete unity with him, being directed by him, especially in these last days before his judgment is passed on all humanity. (Matthew 25:31-33)

Matt.23[39] For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.
These words were addressed to the wicked hypocritical Pharisees, who were already consigned by Jesus to Gehenna.....so how is it that these will ever acknowledge that Jesus is the one who came in the name of Yahweh....a name that to this day, they refused to utter.
 
Last edited:

Earburner

Well-Known Member
Feb 2, 2019
6,564
1,545
113
74
South Carolina
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
In what way is God “plural”? When he is working in tandem with his “firstborn” son....the one “through” whom he created all things. (Colossians 1:15-17, John 1:2-3) If God is the Creator, and Jesus is the agency “through” whom he made everything, that does not automatically make one God in two presentations....it is clearly two separate personages as the scriptures confirm. The pre-human Jesus is “the only begotten son” of his Father. The very fact that he is “begotten” means that he needed a begetter who cause his existence, and who existed before him. And the fact that they call themselves “Father” and “Son” makes no sense unless we understand that relationship in our own lives.

Jesus was not “begotten” at his human birth, but was “with” his Father “in the beginning”. This “firstborn” Son was "only begotten" meaning that he is the only direct creation of his Father....who is also his God....even in heaven.
Does one part of God worship an equal part of himself? (Revelation 3:12)


This is not proof that the two are one person, but is confirmation that Jesus was “with” his Father as he said. When he made the promise to his elect that he was going to “prepare a place” for them “in his Father’s house”....it’s not the son’s house....but he lives with his Father in that abode.....and he said that they would be “one” with him, as he was “one” with his Father......(John 17:22) This is a unity of thought and purpose.

How does Jesus call his Father “the only true God”, if he too is God? (John 17:3)


I do not see the Holy Spirit as anything but the exercise of God’s power, directed to wherever and to whomever he wishes. It “fills” people and can give them supernatural powers. Even Jesus had no supernatural powers before his baptism when he received the Holy Spirit.

If the Father is “greater” than the son, then he son cannot be equal to his God.

If we need a “mediator” between us and God....then why do we not need a mediator between us and Jesus? There is too much scripture that argues with even a binitarian view of God. (Deuteronomy 6:4)


In the parable of the “wheat and the weeds”, it was said by Jesus that the counterfeit “Christianity” sown by the devil was planted “while men were sleeping”. This could mean one of two things...either it was after the death of the apostles, whose presence was acting as a restraint for the coming apostasy, or it was while the leaders of the church were spiritually “sleeping” and allowed false ideas to infiltrate the church with little resistance in the following centuries. Regardless, it means that after Jesus and his apostles were gone from the world scene, the devil would ‘do his thing’ and deceive the gullible....leading them down the wrong path.... (Matthew 7:13-14)... “church-inanity” or Christendom was the result. They accomplished this by forbidding the people access to the Bible. The common man could not check God’s word for themselves so to see if what they were being taught was true. Only priests like Martin Luther, who did have access to the scriptures, could see clearly what the corrupted church was up to. He risked death to speak up.


Having Christ “in” his elect, means that they are in complete unity with him, being directed by him, especially in these last days before his judgment is passed on all humanity. (Matthew 25:31-33)


These words were addressed to the wicked hypocritical Pharisees, who were already consigned by Jesus to Gehenna.....so how is it that these will ever acknowledge that Jesus is the one who came in the name of Yahweh....a name that to this day, they refused to utter.
God the Father comes to dwell within us through His Son, and no other way. Let me say it this way:
1. God the Father is in the Son.
2. Through faith, the Son is now in me.
3. Therefore, so also is the Father in me.
God needed Jesus to be a mediator for Himself, just as much as we need Him, but for different reasons.

If we do not have BOTH the Spirit of God and the Spirit of Christ within us, we are none of his.
Iows, we can't have one without the other.
John.14[23] Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

All the Bible versions, commonly held by most believers, say the same thing about Romans 8:8-9
English Standard Version
You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him.

American Standard Version
But ye are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you. But if any man hath not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Berean Study Bible
You, however, are controlled not by the flesh, but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ.

Douay-Rheims Bible
But you are not in the flesh, but in the spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

English Revised Version
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you. But if any man hath not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

King James Bible
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
 
Last edited:

Earburner

Well-Known Member
Feb 2, 2019
6,564
1,545
113
74
South Carolina
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
These words were addressed to the wicked hypocritical Pharisees, who were already consigned by Jesus to Gehenna.....so how is it that these will ever acknowledge that Jesus is the one who came in the name of Yahweh....a name that to this day, they refused to utter.
Self righteousness comes in many forms, not just by keeping the 10C Law verbatim.
As much as Jesus directed His words of Matthew 23:39 to the Pharisees, ALL are capable of a form of personal self righteousness, for their own reasons.
Matt.9[13] But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice [G2378]: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
 

Aunty Jane

Well-Known Member
Sep 16, 2021
5,360
2,389
113
Sydney
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
God the Father comes to dwell within us through His Son, and no other way. Let me say it this way:
1. God the Father is in the Son.
2. Through faith, the Son is now in me.
3. Therefore, so also is the Father in me.
What do you understand as the meaning of one being “in Christ”?
How is the Father “in” the Son? Can you define that for me?

God needed Jesus to be a mediator for Himself, just as much as we need Him, but for different reasons.
Again, what do you mean by this?
My understanding is that a “mediator” is a “go between”....one who mediates between two parties....so Christ is the “one mediator between God and man” (1 Timothy 2:5) If Christ is the one mediator “between” God and man, then he cannot be God.

If we do not have BOTH the Spirit of God and the Spirit of Christ within us, we are none of his.
Iows, we can't have one without the other.
John.14[23] Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
To me, this scripture tells us that the spirit of God and the spirit of Christ are tied in with loving God and keeping to his requirements for Christian conduct. The unity of Father and Son is undeniable, but what I think is the problem here, is the interpretation of what that actually means. In what way is the “spirit” of God and Christ manifest in us? Isn’t it by the way we live our life in obedience to Christ’s teachings......? We must change our personality to reflect those teachings. (Ephesians 4:23-24)

All the Bible versions, commonly held by most believers, say the same thing about Romans 8:8-9
English Standard Version
You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him.

American Standard Version
But ye are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you. But if any man hath not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Berean Study Bible
You, however, are controlled not by the flesh, but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ.

Douay-Rheims Bible
But you are not in the flesh, but in the spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

English Revised Version
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you. But if any man hath not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

King James Bible
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
Again...what is “the spirit of Christ”? What is Paul stating here? Isn’t he stating that those who are obedient to Christ must live no longer dictated to by their flesh, but by the spirit (or new mindset) imparted by God’s spirit, manifest in that person’s demeanour and conduct.....?

If no one can come to Christ without an invitation from his Father, then I can see how both are working for the salvation of that individual.
John 6:44 Jesus tells us that “No man can come to me unless the Father, who sent me, draws him...” which means that God chooses us as much as we might think we are choosing him. He goes on in verse 65....“This is why I have said to you, no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.”

This demonstrates to me that unless we are “drawn” by the Father, because we are open to his truth, then we will never understand anything about God and his purpose in connection with his Christ, and thereby miss out on the very thing we seek....salvation, when God brings satan’s world to its foretold end.

Jesus tells us that “many” who acknowledge him as their “Lord” are going to give him their excuses at the judgment, but he will tell them “I never knew you, get away from me you workers of lawlessness” (Matthew 7:21-23).....what is it that disqualifies them? They are so sure that they are “Christians” in good standing.....but Jesus has NEVER recognized them as such.

We need to know why Jesus rejected them.....
 
Last edited:

Aunty Jane

Well-Known Member
Sep 16, 2021
5,360
2,389
113
Sydney
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
Self righteousness comes in many forms, not just by keeping the 10C Law verbatim.
Christians are no longer under the Law of Moses....they are now under the law of the Christ. The two greatest commandments....’to love God with all our being, and to love our neighbor as ourselves.’

As much as Jesus directed His words of Matthew 23:39 to the Pharisees, ALL are capable of a form of personal self righteousness, for their own reasons.
Of course.....there is never any excuse to see yourself as superior to anyone else. All are sinners in need of Jesus sacrifice.

Matt.9[13] But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice [G2378]: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
This too was aimed at the Pharisees....they nit-picked the smallest letter of the law, but never exercised mercy to the sinners in order to lead them to repentance. They viewed those sinners as beneath them and unworthy of their attention......the polar opposite to what Christ taught.....such as the parable of the lost sheep.
 

Earburner

Well-Known Member
Feb 2, 2019
6,564
1,545
113
74
South Carolina
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
What do you understand as the meaning of one being “in Christ”?

How is the Father “in” the Son? Can you define that for me?
Please reference the KJV:
2 Corinthians 5:17
Colossians 3:1-4

Proverbs 8:22-31
Matthew 3:16
John 10:38