The rich man and the beggar at his gate?

[Enoch111]

Did Jesus literally descend into hell?

No. Christ did not descend into Hell. The word translated as "hell" should have simply been Hades. And Hades is NOT Hell (Gehenna, the Lake of Fire). Hades is the region of departed souls and spirit in the heart of the earth. And that is exactly where the narrative of the Rich Man and Lazarus occurs.

There were two compartments or divisions in Hades -- one for the righteous dead and the other for the unrighteous. However, after the resurrection of Christ, all the righteous dead were taken to Heaven (the New Jerusalem).

 

[Enoch111]

What does this have to do with the rich man?

VIJ loves to post irrelevant passages, hoping to somehow connect them to the topic under discussion. And I have said this many times -- context is critical.

 

[Waiting on him]

VIJ loves yo post irrelevant passages, hoping to somehow connect them to the topic under discussion. And I have said this many times -- context is critical.

All Scripture is relevant to me. I happen to view the word of God as a garment (seamless) it's as if your saying you can isolate verses like it's patched together.

 

[Waiting on him]

No. Christ did not descend into Hell. The word translated as "hell" should have simply been Hades. And Hades is NOT Hell (Gehenna, the Lake of Fire). Hades is the region of departed souls and spirit in the heart of the earth. And that is exactly where the narrative of the Rich Man and Lazarus occurs.

There were two compartments or divisions in Hades -- one for the righteous dead and the other for the unrighteous. However, after the resurrection of Christ, all the righteous dead were taken to Heaven (the New Jerusalem).

I don't recall anyone stating that Jesus descended into the lake of fire.

 

[Waiting on him]

James 3:6 KJV
And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue among our members, that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of hell.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

VIJ loves yo post irrelevant passages, hoping to somehow connect them to the topic under discussion. And I have said this many times -- context is critical.

Asked the other member: did the rich man get what was asked for in “if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.”

What has and is being said (unless I’ve misunderstood) is a denial “no” Lazarus was not raised. “No” Christ was not raised. “They have Moses and the prophets let them hear them” ...then why is the New Testament given? “The Revelation of Jesus Christ”?

John 12:7-11 Then said Jesus, Let her alone: against the day of my burying hath she kept this. [8] For the poor always ye have with you; but me ye have not always. [9] Much people of the Jews therefore knew that he was there: and they came not for Jesus' sake only, but that they might see Lazarus also, whom he had raised from the dead. [10] But the chief priests consulted that they might put Lazarus also to death; [11] Because that by reason of him many of the Jews went away, and believed on Jesus.

If no then Why? “If Christ be not raised, your faith is in vain, you are yet in your sins.” 1 Corinthians 15:16-17 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised: [17] And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.

Luke 9:35 And there came a voice out of the cloud, saying, This is my beloved Son: hear him.

Ask you the same question...is it let them hear the prophets and Moses, if they won’t hear them ...they won’t hear the Son? Again, then why not : let them hear the OT ...if they don’t believe Moses and the prophets ...they won’t believe the New Testament. What is impossible with men, is possible with God. What is “The Revelation of Jesus Christ”? If not the “One rose from the dead” “hear Him.”

 

[VictoryinJesus]

No. Christ did not descend into Hell. The word translated as "hell" should have simply been Hades. And Hades is NOT Hell (Gehenna, the Lake of Fire). Hades is the region of departed souls and spirit in the heart of the earth. And that is exactly where the narrative of the Rich Man and Lazarus occurs.

Thanks. Context is critical and this was given before the resurrection. Not after. What does it look like now ...in your understanding? Does the gulf “breach”...the wide expanse or divide still remain?

There were two compartments or divisions in Hades -- one for the righteous dead and the other for the unrighteous. However, after the resurrection of Christ, all the righteous dead were taken to Heaven (the New Jerusalem).

So The rich man asking for water for his thirst “to cool his tongue”

James 3:6 KJV
And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue among our members, that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of hell.

and for Lazarus to be sent to his brothers; saw across a great divide one who was raised from the dead come to Abraham’s bosom and lead those across that divide out?

 

[Waiting on him]

Thanks. Context is critical and this was given before the resurrection. Not after. What does it look like now ...in your understanding? Does the gulf “breach”...the wide expanse or divide still remain?



So The rich man asking for water for his thirst “to cool his tongue”


and for Lazarus to be sent to his brothers; saw across a great divide one who was raised from the dead come to Abraham’s bosom and lead those across that divide out?

James 3:11 KJV
Doth a fountain send forth at the same place sweet water and bitter?

What can quench a tongue that is on fire, is the more appropriate question in regards to the prophetic word Jesus is giving?

 

[bbyrd009]

And that is exactly where the narrative of the Rich Man and Lazarus occurs.

There were two compartments or divisions in Hade

Sheol is where that parable occurs, isnt it?

all the righteous dead were taken to Heaven

No one has ever gone up to heaven pEnoch, sorry, but i'm pretty sure you will not be able to Quote what you say is true wadr

 

[bbyrd009]

What can quench a tongue that is on fire, is the more appropriate question in regards to the prophetic word Jesus is giving?

nice imo

 

[VictoryinJesus]

@Waiting on him and I heard this song in the car a little bit ago.

This is the story of a runaway
With no way home and no way out
I threw the best of me away
I had my chance, it's too late now
Too far gone and too ashamed
To think that You'd still know my name
But love refused to let my story end that way
You didn't wait for me to find my way to You
I couldn't cross that distance even if I wanted to
You came running after me When anybody else would've turned and left me at my worst

Love moved first

What kind of grace, relentless grace
Would chase this rebel down
Crawl into this prisoner's cage
Take my hand and pull me out
You knew I couldn't make the change
So You became the change in me
And now I live to tell the story
Of the God who rescues

 

[Waiting on him]

@Waiting on him and I heard this song in the car a little bit ago.

This is the story of a runaway
With no way home and no way out
I threw the best of me away
I had my chance, it's too late now
Too far gone and too ashamed
To think that You'd still know my name
But love refused to let my story end that way
You didn't wait for me to find my way to You
I couldn't cross that distance even if I wanted to
You came running after me When anybody else would've turned and left me at my worst

Love moved first

What kind of grace, relentless grace
Would chase this rebel down
Crawl into this prisoner's cage
Take my hand and pull me out
You knew I couldn't make the change
So You became the change in me
And now I live to tell the story
Of the God who rescues

Whom ever wrote this song is definitely some one whom was definitely in need of rescue. Beautiful song.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Whom ever wrote this song is definitely some one whom was definitely in need of rescue. Beautiful song.

Perfect love casteth out torment

1 John 4:18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

What kind of grace, relentless grace
Would chase this rebel down
Crawl into this prisoner's cage
Take my hand and pull me out

My husband just reminded me. How could I have forgotten? He said “the question of who has the key is answered in this song...I’m surprised you didn't catch that.”

Probably four years ago I sat in a counselors office. Explained to her how it was like I was trapped in a cage. A cage I myself had built out of fear. I had set the perimeters and the walls of my own confinement thinking I was safe there...locked away...in that cage but had realized instead I had become its prisoner. Panic attacks, phobias...antisocial...no life or hope. She kept quoting “perfect love cast out fear.” I thought she had no idea how deep the fear ran and there was no Hope ever. Completely convinced it was too late. She asked always “who has the key” “who opens the door?” I knew what she wanted me to say but no where within did I feel that to be a possibility. So yes, my husband was right in the answer to who has the key and opens the door is there:
“What kind of grace, relentless grace
Would chase this rebel down
Crawl into this prisoner's cage
Take my hand and pull me out”

 

[Renniks]

No one has ever gone up to heaven pEnoch, sorry, but i'm pretty sure you will not be able to Quote what you say is true wadr

Jesus ascended into heaven and before that Elijah did also. To be apart from the body for a believer is to be with God.

Now you can misunderstand one verse or listen to many verses that clarify the question.

The emphasis in that verse was on Jesus having the authority to teach on eternal life because He alone had come down from heaven to earth. The NLT translates the verse, "No one has ever gone to heaven and returned. But the Son of Man has come down from heaven."
Verse 17 further illustrates this point. Jesus stated, "For God did not sent his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him." Again, the emphasis is on Jesus coming to earth from heaven.

In His response to the religious leaders in Mark 12:26-27, Jesus answered, "And as for the dead being raised, have you not read in the book of Moses, in the passage about the bush, how God spoke to him, saying, 'I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob'? He is not God of the dead, but of the living."

Two men in the Bible were taken up to heaven without dying. Genesis 5:24 tells the event of Enoch entering directly into heaven (also Hebrews 11:5). Second Kings 2:11 records Elijah being taken to heaven by a whirlwind with chariots of fire separating him from Elisha. In Luke 16:19-30, Jesus shares an account of Lazarus in heaven at Abraham's side.

 

[Renniks]

My husband just reminded me. How could I have forgotten? He said “the question of who has the key is answered in this song...I’m surprised you didn't catch that.”

Probably four years ago I sat in a counselors office. Explained to her how it was like I was trapped in a cage. A cage I myself had built out of fear. I had set the perimeters and the walls of my own confinement thinking I was safe there...locked away...in that cage but had realized instead I had become its prisoner. Panic attacks, phobias...antisocial...no life or hope. She kept quoting “perfect love cast out fear.” I thought she had no idea how deep the fear ran and there was no Hope ever. Completely convinced it was too late. She asked always “who has the key” “who opens the door?” I knew what she wanted me to say but no where within did I feel that to be a possibility. So yes, my husband was right in the answer to who has the key and opens the door is there:
“What kind of grace, relentless grace
Would chase this rebel down
Crawl into this prisoner's cage
Take my hand and pull me out”

All this is a beautiful illustration of God's grace, but what does it have to do with people who are already in hell?

 

[Waiting on him]

Jesus ascended into heaven and before that Elijah did also. To be apart from the body for a believer is to be with God.

Could you quote this with Scripture?

 

[bbyrd009]

and before that Elijah did also.

only you cannot Quote that, right, bc it is not true, sorry

 

[Renniks]

Could you quote this with Scripture?

I just did.
Acts 1:9-12 Jesus ascended to heaven.
We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
2 Corinthians 5:8

 

[bbyrd009]

Two men in the Bible were taken up to heaven without dying.

swing/miss, sorry, unless you care to Quote that

Genesis 5:24 tells the event of Enoch entering directly into heaven (also Hebrews 11:5). Second Kings 2:11 records Elijah being taken to heaven by a whirlwind with chariots of fire separating him from Elisha.

nope, not in there either, dang!

In Luke 16:19-30, Jesus shares an account of Lazarus in heaven at Abraham's side.

that was Sheol, sorry, and have a nice day ok?