In church history there was a tendency for some to confuse imputed righteousness by faith with infused righteousness (or, stated, differently, confusing justification with sanctification). At the Reformation the truth of justification by faith (Romans, Galatians, etc.) was very strongly asserted.
The Righteousness of God
- Thread starter Episkopos
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At the reformation we see human interpretation gaining credibility. Just this issue of an "imputed" righteous that one bestows on himself for a belief...is proof that the standard of Christ has been thrown away in favour of pleasing men.
Only God can personally impute righteousness on a person. He alone judges. No one has imputed righteousness that one can tell others of. God alone judges these things. Abraham did not think he was righteous...imputed or not. So unlike the modern seekers of self-righteousness.
But people are imputing things to themselves today in a bid that is worse than what the Pharisees did. And THEY were condemned by Jesus.
How can this generation of "believers' escape the coming judgment and wrath of God?
There is a big surprise coming on the dreadful day of the Lord.
Yeah, imputed righteousness by faith has never made sense to me. I think God counts a man as righteous because the man DOES what is right in Gods eyes, by trusting Him.
Whether the man continues (abides) in that trust and grows in it is what God sees as righteous, not whatever men declare...
Romans 4:1-8 speaks of the imputed righteousness of the Lord.
Rom 4:1, What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?
Rom 4:2, For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
Rom 4:3, For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
Rom 4:4, Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
Rom 4:5, But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Rom 4:6, Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
Rom 4:7, Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
Rom 4:8, Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
Rom 4:1, What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?
Rom 4:2, For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
Rom 4:3, For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
Rom 4:4, Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
Rom 4:5, But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Rom 4:6, Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
Rom 4:7, Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
Rom 4:8, Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
Well, God counts a man righteous who trusts Him. And since there is no way to receive the Spirit, move on in the Lord, or grow, or become more like our Lord EXCEPT by trust, by that trusting, a man has done righteously and will do righteously.
But to say a man is righteous who does not DO righteously, that's what I think of as imputed righteousness as men explain it. And that makes no sense to me. Make no mistake about it, the apostle said, a righteous man DOES what is right.
But to say a man is righteous who does not DO righteously, that's what I think of as imputed righteousness as men explain it. And that makes no sense to me. Make no mistake about it, the apostle said, a righteous man DOES what is right.
If you truly have faith in Jesus, your identity in Christ is that you are righteous even when and if you blow it (Romans 4:5). This identity is secure through faith, and as long as you have faith it cannot be messed with. So then, since you are the righteousness of the Lord in Christ, now go and live like it.
I am of the opinion that a man does what is righteous because he is righteous, not the other way around (he is not righteous because he does what is righteous, it is the other way around).
A man is righteous not because of his performance, but because of his faith in Jesus Christ; and his performance will be righteous because he is righteous.
I am of the opinion that a man does what is righteous because he is righteous, not the other way around (he is not righteous because he does what is righteous, it is the other way around).
A man is righteous not because of his performance, but because of his faith in Jesus Christ; and his performance will be righteous because he is righteous.
You are actually speaking of two different things here.
There is a parable where Jesus speaks of 2 sons. One says that he will obey his father and the other says he won't. But the one who says he will...doesn't and the one who said he won't...does.
So which one is deemed righteous?
The same goes for being a Christian but not being humble...as opposed to being a non-believer but being humble. Which is deemed as righteous by God? The one who ACTS with righteousness. Righteous is as righteous does. Just look at the parable of the Pharisee and the Publican. The one who thought he was righteous wasn't. And the one who thought he wasn't was.
So it is with righteousness...which is a moving target. It's about what we do with our actions.
So then we are known by our ACTIONS whether we are righteous or not. We will all be judged on this.
Then there is another higher form of righteousness which is by faith. The righteousness of God. In THAT righteousness...which is not our own...His righteousness causes us to do things we would never be able to do on our own. His grace empowers us. So then the polarity is reversed. It is no longer we...but Christ. :)
Its enough to give me a headache. I can only think for so long about it.
I want to be good. I've only discovered one way to be good - by trusting Him to do it. I catch glimpses of Him doing it, like...the other night, I was treated badly by someone, and I just...it didn't upset me. In fact, it didn't really effect me in any way, which is not like me. I've always been resentful and fuming inside when I am treated badly. And I just felt something really different than that and I didn't know how to process it. Then I realized that the different thing I was feeling was actually love and...care for the person. And since that's not like me, I knew I was seeing Him and not me.
I felt like...where did I go? I just was not there somehow. Oh my gosh, that sounds crazy doesn't it?
I want to be good. I've only discovered one way to be good - by trusting Him to do it. I catch glimpses of Him doing it, like...the other night, I was treated badly by someone, and I just...it didn't upset me. In fact, it didn't really effect me in any way, which is not like me. I've always been resentful and fuming inside when I am treated badly. And I just felt something really different than that and I didn't know how to process it. Then I realized that the different thing I was feeling was actually love and...care for the person. And since that's not like me, I knew I was seeing Him and not me.
I felt like...where did I go? I just was not there somehow. Oh my gosh, that sounds crazy doesn't it?
I don't think it sounds crazy at all! More like renewal of mind and growth! I have something similar happen to me a while back. Had to do with that "Cops" show where they busted petty thieves and drug dealers, domestics etc. When that show first came on a way long time ago, when ever I would see them taking down the "bad guy", I would be like 'yeah! knock that dirtbag around, slap them cuffs on, arrest his evil a**' or something to that effect. Well, it has to be around a decade now since last I saw this show at a friends. This time, when I watched these people getting arrested...I had compassion on them! I saw them as lost, scared, angry, poor and misguided. I saw them as needing Jesus in their lives. So, I DO NOT find your change of heart crazy one bit! Oh how He works ♥
Actually, you seem here to be saying that salvation is not through faith in Jesus Christ, but rather through the virtues that we exhibit in our lives.
There may be a spiritually immature Christian, who has truly placed their faith in Jesus, who has not attained a very high degree of humility, and a Buddhist, who through the disciplines of his religion, has achieved a high degree of humility, but does not believe in Jesus.
Which one is saved?
I believe that the following scriptures have bearing on the answer:
Jhn 14:6, Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
Jhn 10:9, I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.
Rom 10:9, That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Rom 10:10, For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Rom 10:11, For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
Rom 10:12, For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
Rom 10:13, For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Waiting on him
Well-Known Member
Waiting on him
Well-Known Member
Need to be very cautious of men and women who only testify of themselves. It’s very obvious.
Again you are not seeing the distinction between being saved NOW by walking in Christ....and being saved at the end of our lives once our races are finished....at the judgment.
There s both an eternal life and a temporal life to consider.
If we have walked in the eternal life we will bear an eternal kind of fruit for a reward. But if we have failed to behave properly we will lose everything but our lives.
Waiting on him
Well-Known Member
At what time?
I don't think many actually understand how salvation works.
We can walk in salvation NOW by entering into Christ....for a reward. This is to do eternal works.
But you must also finish your race and do well in your temporal quality...
So we are being saved by grace through faith NOW and we will be judged for our works later. NO ONE is judged by grace. At judgment it is works that counts. But nobody enters into Christ by works. We are presently saved by grace through faith.
Ponder that! :)
I am pretty certain that those who are in Christ will be judged at a different judgment than will those who have not received Christ.
The bema seat and the Great White Throne Judgment are two separate judgments; and they happen at different times in history.
The bema seat takes place at the seventh trumpet; while the GWT judgment happens at the end of time.
The bema seat and the Great White Throne Judgment are two separate judgments; and they happen at different times in history.
The bema seat takes place at the seventh trumpet; while the GWT judgment happens at the end of time.
Romans 3 and Romans 5 give a very strong sense of the imputed righteousness of God reckoned by faith to the sinner's account.
Waiting on him
Well-Known Member
Exactly.
"Saved for glory, saved by Jesus,
All our meetness His alone,
Meetness which the Father pleases
Ours should be in Christ the Son."
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