The Road to Life is Norrow?

[newbirth]

If the lake of fire is never quenched then death means immortality. The definition of mortality is death. Are you doing the math here?

and death is separation from God who alone is immortal.....those who are joined to Him partakes of his immortality which is life...you are assuming there is no existence for those apart from God...
Matthew 25:41
Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:



Revelation 12:7-9King James Version (KJV)
7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

 

[ATP]

and death is separation from God who alone is immortal.....those who are joined to Him partakes of his immortality which is life...you are assuming there is no existence for those apart from God...
Matthew 25:41
Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

Revelation 12:7-9King James Version (KJV)
7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

But if they continue existing in the lake of fire they will be considered immortal, but immortality is a gift given to believers only.

 

[newbirth]

But if they continue existing in the lake of fire they will be considered immortal, but immortality is a gift given to believers only.

you are correct about...immortality is a gift given to believers only.....maybe you would consider the dead immortal but God considers them dead....Jesus always spoke that way...


Matthew 8:21-22King James Version (KJV)
21 And another of his disciples said unto him, Lord, suffer me first to go and bury my father.
22 But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead.

 

[ATP]

you are correct about...immortality is a gift given to believers only.....maybe you would consider the dead immortal but God considers them dead....Jesus always spoke that way...
Matthew 8:21-22King James Version (KJV)
21 And another of his disciples said unto him, Lord, suffer me first to go and bury my father.
22 But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead.

Matt 8:21-22 is referring to this lifetime only. I also don't see any reference to the lake of fire. The bottom line is this, if we are not clothing ourselves with immortality at the first resurrection then the alternative is mortality, death. Nonbelievers will not partake in the first resurrection. Nonbelievers won't be clothing themselves with immortality, rather they will come alive to be judged. Believers will be clothed, nonbelievers will be judged. Their heart will eventually stop beating in the lake of fire. That is the definition of mortality. Death is defined when your heart stop beating. Nowhere in Rev 20:11-15 NIV does it mention being clothed in immortality, it does however mention DEATH. Not to mention "death has been swallowed up in victory" in 1 Cor 15:54 NIV. Do you see the logic....

FIRST RESURRECTION - 1 Cor 15:50-54 NIV I declare to you, brothers and sisters, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 51Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— 52in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. 54When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: “Death has been swallowed up in victory.”

GREAT WHITE THRONE JUDGMENT - Rev 20:11-15 NIV Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. The earth and the heavens fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. 12And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. 13The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done. 14Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. 15Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.

- ATP

 

[newbirth]

Matt 8:21-22 is referring to this lifetime only. I also don't see any reference to the lake of fire. The bottom line is this, if we are not clothing ourselves with immortality at the first resurrection then the alternative is mortality, death. Nonbelievers will not partake in the first resurrection. Nonbelievers won't be clothing themselves with immortality, rather they will come alive to be judged. Believers will be clothed, nonbelievers will be judged. Their heart will eventually stop beating in the lake of fire. That is the definition of mortality. Death is defined when your heart stop beating. Nowhere in Rev 20:11-15 NIV does it mention being clothed in immortality, it does however mention DEATH. Not to mention "death has been swallowed up in victory" in 1 Cor 15:54 NIV. Do you see the logic....

FIRST RESURRECTION - 1 Cor 15:50-54 NIV I declare to you, brothers and sisters, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 51Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— 52in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. 54When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: “Death has been swallowed up in victory.”

GREAT WHITE THRONE JUDGMENT - Rev 20:11-15 NIV Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. The earth and the heavens fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. 12And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. 13The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done. 14Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. 15Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.

- ATP

and how is death swallowed up in victory....???? If death were swallowed up in that no one could die again then there would be no second death....so the victory over death is only for believers...and that means they will not be separated from God in whom is life eternal...and those who are not believers will suffer separation from the eternal life that is in God...which is the second death...

 

[ATP]

and how is death swallowed up in victory....???? If death were swallowed up in that no one could die again then there would be no second death....so the victory over death is only for believers...and that means they will not be separated from God in whom is life eternal...and those who are not believers will suffer separation from the eternal life that is in God...which is the second death...

Right, but you seem to be having trouble defining what "death" is. Death is the opposite of immortality. Either you're heart is beating or its not.

 

[newbirth]

Right, but you seem to be having trouble defining what "death" is. Death is the opposite of immortality. Either you're heart is beating or its not.

I thought mortality was the opposite of immortality and life was the opposite of death....it is either you are in Christ where there is life or out of Christ where there is death...

 

[ATP]

I thought mortality was the opposite of immortality and life was the opposite of death....it is either you are in Christ where there is life or out of Christ where there is death...

Dead to sin and alive in Christ or dead to Christ and alive in sin is about this lifetime, not the afterlife.

 

[newbirth]

Dead to sin and alive in Christ or dead to Christ and alive in sin is about this lifetime, not the afterlife.

well I suppose you might be bloated enough to support yourself in the afterlife...but those who are joined to Christ receives life from him...to be separated from Christ is death....in this life and the afterlife...

 

[ATP]

well I suppose you might be bloated enough to support yourself in the afterlife...but those who are joined to Christ receives life from him...to be separated from Christ is death....in this life and the afterlife...

But how?? How is it possible to live forever as a mortal being?

 

[newbirth]

But how?? How is it possible to live forever as a mortal being?

it isn't ...you die forever...are not all resurrected ?some to life (in Christ) and some to death (outside Christ)....it is appointed man once to 'die" that kind of physical death....those who resurrected outside of Christ do not die physically again...their death is separation from God in eternal torment

 

[Axehead]

I'm sorry...I dont know were this passage is in the Bible..but I know it is there. What I grew up beliving was that it means most people go to hell.
I have struggled with this during my life and the idea of hell and it even for a year or so cuased me to loose my fiath completly.
I still can not understand it, but I have accepted that I must trust that God is all loving with an ever lasting uncondistional love.
He is just.
But hell seems like something no human would be evil enough to subject someone to for any reason.
And so I can not understand everlasting torment for any being, comming from a God like my Jesus who loved sinners and sat and ate with them in love not caring what the religouse poeple thought.

Why would any human being want to go through this life down here on earth without the fellowship and authority of Jesus Christ in their life? I guess if you can answer that one, you can figure out why they don't wish to dwell with Christ for eternity.

 

[ATP]

it isn't ...you die forever...are not all resurrected ?some to life (in Christ) and some to death (outside Christ)....it is appointed man once to 'die" that kind of physical death....those who resurrected outside of Christ do not die physically again...their death is separation from God in eternal torment

But if they are tormented forever that means they're also immortal. How is that possible if they haven't been clothed with immortality?

1 Cor 15:50-54 NIV I declare to you, brothers and sisters, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 51Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— 52in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. 54When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: “Death has been swallowed up in victory.”

 

[newbirth]

But if they are tormented forever that means they're also immortal. How is that possible if they haven't been clothed with immortality?

1 Cor 15:50-54 NIV I declare to you, brothers and sisters, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 51Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— 52in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. 54When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: “Death has been swallowed up in victory.”

you have not been reading my responses.....and thus we are going in circles...I covered this already...there is one physical death....after that is the judgement...you are implying man is going to die another physical death after judgement...that is already settled...the righteous Goes with God the unrighteous goes to the place prepared for the devil and his angels.......

 

[ATP]

I covered this already...there is one physical death....after that is the judgement...you are implying man is going to die another physical death after judgement...

Well, they will die another physical death after judgment, because the lake of fire is the second death Rev 20:14 NIV. Nonbelievers will never be immortal beings, EVER.

 

[newbirth]

Well, they will die another physical death after judgment, because the lake of fire is the second death Rev 20:14 NIV. Nonbelievers will never be immortal beings, EVER.

so we agree the second death is not physical but the second death is spiritual...because the mortal man no longer exist but his evil spirit does...are you contending they will cease to exist

 

[ATP]

so we agree the second death is not physical but the second death is spiritual...because the mortal man no longer exist but his evil spirit does...are you contending they will cease to exist

I do believe they will cease to exist Mal 4:1-3 NIV. The spirit cannot exist without the body. By now you should understand why believers will become immortal.

 

[newbirth]

I do believe they will cease to exist Mal 4:1-3 NIV. The spirit cannot exist without the body. By now you should understand why believers will become immortal.

well you believe wrong ...because James says it is the body that is dead without the spirit...


James 2:26
For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

so tell me where does the scripture say the spirit cannot exist without the body???

 

[ATP]

well you believe wrong ...because James says it is the body that is dead without the spirit...


James 2:26
For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

so tell me where does the scripture say the spirit cannot exist without the body???

Uh well, James 2:26 pretty much proves my point lol. The body cannot exist without the spirit and visa versa. Once the breath of life is removed from us, we die Job 34:14-15 NIV, Eccl 12:7 NIV.Gen 2:7 NIV is not saying God formed our spirit from the dust, no. He formed man FIRST, then breathed our spirit into our bodies. Our soul, spirit and bodies cannot exist without each other. They are in unity.

 

[newbirth]

Uh well, James 2:26 pretty much proves my point lol. The body cannot exist without the spirit and visa versa. Once the breath of life is removed from us, we die Job 34:14-15 NIV, Eccl 12:7 NIV.Gen 2:7 NIV is not saying God formed our spirit from the dust, no. He formed man FIRST, then breathed our spirit into our bodies. Our soul, spirit and bodies cannot exist without each other. They are in unity.

where does the scripture say visa versa...you are inferring ....scripture does not say that....
where does the scripture say this???...."Our soul, spirit and bodies cannot exist without each other."....you are inferring....

flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God ...so since you cannot exist without your flesh I guess there is no inheritance for you in the kingdom of God...


1 Corinthians 15:49-51King James Version (KJV)
49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,