The seed of Israel
- Thread starter robert derrick
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The Israel of God is the body of Christ walking after His Spirit in natural bodies on earth.
Israel after the flesh is in name only. With the new covenant of the risen God of Israel, there is no more profit at all of the flesh, including circumcision and promise of God.
The covenant with God, as well as His promise, was and remains always as ironclad as them that believe and obey, to whom the promise and covenant was made.
Abraham was not called the friend of God, until after he had offered up Isaac.
All the physical seed was broken off by unbelief, and any grafted in can be also broken off by the same example of unbelief.
The only way for ezekiel to be fulfilled with a physical seed of Abraham and of Jacob, will be if the reigning Lord revives the old covenant with the law, circumcision, sabbath, priesthood, and blood sacrifice of bulls and goats for sin.
The Redeemer out of Sion has already come to remarry her, and she spit in His face.
At this time, only them not spitting in His face, but are believing are God's people of Israel, which includes whosoever.
The only way he will remarry that old physical seed of if He resurrects His old covenant from the dead, along with the law and blood sacrifices for sin.
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Good deal.
I'm certainly not one to argue with peoples' beliefs. People are free to believe anything they want.
It's still to come . . .
Revelation 19:6-9 KJV
6) And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.
7) Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.
8) And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.
9) And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.
God promised!
Much love!
The marriage supper is still promised, and that will take place with whosoever believes Jesus to the end.
The Jerusalem that is above is free and the mother of all Christians. (Gal 4)
There will be plenty from all seed of flesh, that repent and believe Him and are grafted into the Israel of God.
Amos 9 is another prophecy of the last days of the first coming of Christ, when all the children of Israel: the lost sheep of the house of Israel will be cut off from the earth as a promised seed to God:
Are ye not as children of the Ethiopians unto me, O children of Israel? saith the LORD. Have not I brought up Israel out of the land of Egypt? and the Philistines from Caphtor, and the Syrians from Kir? Behold, the eyes of the Lord GOD are upon the sinful kingdom, and I will destroy it from off the face of the earth.
All the sinners of my people shall die by the sword, which say, The evil shall not overtake nor prevent us.
In that day will I raise up the tabernacle of David that is fallen, and close up the breaches thereof; and I will raise up his ruins, and I will build it as in the days of old.
We know this is not just prophecy of the northern kingdom, nor of a future restoration of the northern kingdom, because James quoted it in Acts pertaining to the rebuilding of the tabernacle of David in the New Covenant of Christ:
Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name. And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written, After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up: That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.
All the lost sheep of the children of Israel, whom the Redeemer first came to confirm to them the promises of God, were counted as sinners to be cut off by the sword of the Word of God, because they were all concluded in unbelief, when they all forsook Jesus at the cross.
Saving that I will not utterly destroy the house of Jacob, saith the LORD. For, lo, I will command, and I will sift the house of Israel among all nations, like as corn is sifted in a sieve, yet shall not the least grain fall upon the earth.
The house of Jacob is now the residue of all men from all nations that repent and believe the Lord Jesus and are grafted into the green olive tree of the house of Jacob.
In the last days of the New Covenant of Christ, there will be a remnant on earth, that are alive and remain, to meet with the resurrected dead in Christ in the air.
Are ye not as children of the Ethiopians unto me, O children of Israel? saith the LORD. Have not I brought up Israel out of the land of Egypt? and the Philistines from Caphtor, and the Syrians from Kir? Behold, the eyes of the Lord GOD are upon the sinful kingdom, and I will destroy it from off the face of the earth.
All the sinners of my people shall die by the sword, which say, The evil shall not overtake nor prevent us.
In that day will I raise up the tabernacle of David that is fallen, and close up the breaches thereof; and I will raise up his ruins, and I will build it as in the days of old.
We know this is not just prophecy of the northern kingdom, nor of a future restoration of the northern kingdom, because James quoted it in Acts pertaining to the rebuilding of the tabernacle of David in the New Covenant of Christ:
Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name. And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written, After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up: That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.
All the lost sheep of the children of Israel, whom the Redeemer first came to confirm to them the promises of God, were counted as sinners to be cut off by the sword of the Word of God, because they were all concluded in unbelief, when they all forsook Jesus at the cross.
Saving that I will not utterly destroy the house of Jacob, saith the LORD. For, lo, I will command, and I will sift the house of Israel among all nations, like as corn is sifted in a sieve, yet shall not the least grain fall upon the earth.
The house of Jacob is now the residue of all men from all nations that repent and believe the Lord Jesus and are grafted into the green olive tree of the house of Jacob.
In the last days of the New Covenant of Christ, there will be a remnant on earth, that are alive and remain, to meet with the resurrected dead in Christ in the air.
And yet when Israel left God, into their whoredoms, God even divorced Israel, but promised to remarry Her. And this was well before Jesus came "to the lost sheep of Israel", and NOT to the gentiles.
It was prophesied well before Jesus came first to the lost sheep of Israel, and the divorce was fulfilled at the cross with the death of the Husband at the hands of the adulteress wife.
The risen Husband, being freed from the law of marriage to that old wife of flesh, has married a new bride born after the Spirit in natural bodies, as was Isaac: the green olive tree of the house of Israel and of Judah.
That old adulteress wife had Him crucified in order to take the inheritance for herself according to Jesus' prophecy (Mark 12), and when she did so, that whole house of Israel after the flesh was left to her desolate according to Jesus' prophecy (Matthew 23).
She went on to play the harlot in her own desolate nation and uncircumcised religion of the Jews. Her name is a mere byword of what it once was, which was prophesied they would become after all being cut off:
But if ye shall at all turn from following me, ye or your children, and will not keep my commandments and my statutes which I have set before you, but go and serve other gods, and worship them: Then will I cut off Israel out of the land which I have given them; and this house, which I have hallowed for my name, will I cast out of my sight; and Israel shall be a proverb and a byword among all people. (1 Kings 9)
The risen God of Israel will never join Himself to an harlot (1 Cor 6). No matter how much men demand He do so to fulfill prophecy of Scripture, that they continue to errantly read without NT teaching of Scripture.
I cannot understand how others don't see what I see in this passage, that there is literally nothing Israel could do so that God would cast them away from Himself.
I can understand how someone could say such a thing, when they disassociate NT Scripture from OT prophecy.
And ye shall not walk in the manners of the nation, which I cast out before you: for they committed all these things, and therefore I abhorred them. (Lev 20)
And so they were warned likewise, because God is not a respecter of persons with them that do the same things:
But if ye shall at all turn from following me, ye or your children, and will not keep my commandments and my statutes which I have set before you, but go and serve other gods, and worship them: Then will I cut off Israel out of the land which I have given them; and this house, which I have hallowed for my name, will I cast out of my sight; and Israel shall be a proverb and a byword among all people. (1 Kings 9)
All the natural people were cut off and and the natural branches broken off at the cross, and now behold all branches are new and of God by the resurrection of Jesus from the dead. Pretty simple. God promised he would do so 'if', even though men try to say He couldn't, even 'if'. God was not bluffing, nor is Scripture a lie.
So long as the sun and moon and stars are following God's ordinance for them, then Israel will remain a nation before God.
When the God of Israel was in the heart of the earth for 3 days, he was not reigning over the moon and the stars. They were not shining by His ordnance at that time, but by that of His Father still in heaven. Israel after the flesh died as a people of God, and was buried with the God of Israel. He rose again. They did not as a natural nation of people.
That old nation is as dead and gone and decayed to vanishing as that old covenant made between themselves and the God of Israel.
The Israel that remains a nation of God on earth is the grafted house of Israel and of Judah alive and remaining on earth in natural bodies.
That one group is affirmed to be saved, and the "true Israel" does not negate the existence of the other group, ethnic Israel.
The authenticate does not negate the counterfeit. But it does expose it as such.
Scripture speaking for the first time of 'Israel after the flesh', shows plainly they are now in name only.
And to ethnic Israel God made a number of promises which He will keep.
1. God already kept them, when He came to confirm them (Rom 15:8), and they rejected His promises and killed Him, so they could have the inheritance for themselves.
Now the promises made to Abraham and his seed, which is Christ, are kept to an Israel born after the Spirit, as was Isaac, and walk in the steps of their father Abraham.
2. The only promise made to the natural children of Israel was to keep them as My people Israel, 'if'. Which ended at the cross for all of them.
Jesus was not falsely prophesying that they would all forsake Him at the end. They did not believe that prophesy, and they did not believe He would rise again from the dead. And so, Scripture is true, when it says they were thus all concluded in unbelief, for which they were cut off as a natural people of God.
3. The promise to Abraham was to himself and his seed. His seed is Christ, not the natural children of Israel.
Israel after the flesh was never the promised seed:
Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made...Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
And so by NT teaching of Scripture that seed is Christ, and only the children of that seed are now the children of promise of Abraham: they are the promised seed to become as the multitude of stars in number.
The natural people were not, are not, and never shall be that seed by birth of flesh. They will go the way of all flesh and die out in the end.
in ironclad language that on it's face denies the possibility that Israel would do something, even to crucify their Christ, so that God would cast them all away.
It was forever impossible for Satan to prevent the promised seed from coming into the world. The prophecy was sure from the beginning: It shall bruise thy head. That is ironclad Scripture.
The only impossibility pertaining to the promise of God to Abraham and his seed is: Those natural branches could never stop Him from coming into the world, and so not fulfill the promise to Abraham and to his seed.
And He fulfilled his promise to those branches to cut them all off and lay the whole land waste, if He had to, in order to do so. Which of course had to include Himself as The Branch of Israel, made of a woman and the seed of David according to the flesh.
The God of Israel was willing to die on the cross, if necessary, to remove the promise He made to a natural people, if those people were standing in the way of the promised seed: those born of Christ.
They did before and after the cross:
For ye, brethren, became followers of the churches of God which in Judaea are in Christ Jesus: for ye also have suffered like things of your own countrymen, even as they have of the Jews: Who both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they please not God, and are contrary to all men: Forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they might be saved, to fill up their sins alway: for the wrath is come upon them to the uttermost. (1 Thess 2)
And now it is impossible for the dragon and any uncircumcised nation on earth, such as Israel after the flesh, to stop the risen God of Israel from bringing in many firstborn seed as the stars of the sky for multitude.
so that God would cast them all away.
And so the main objection is not casting away of Israel after all, but casting them all away. Which is understandable, considering a remnant of the captivity will return according to prophecy of Scripture of old.
But once again with NT Scripture, we see that all Israel after the flesh was cast away for unbelief at the cross: all were concluded in sin and unbelief. All forsook Him. None believed He would rise again, especially not His own disciples and chosen apostles, who still would not believe with witness from a woman and then two men.
All prophesies of the last days speak of a thorough cleaning of the land of Israel and Judah and Jerusalem, even as the wiping of a dish like unto Samaria (Is 10:11).
But then there is the remnant return from captivity: the tabernacle of David being built again from scratch, which the Lord now pitches by His Spirit and circumcision of heart.
The church and body of Jesus Christ on earth is the children of the promised seed of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, being born after the Spirit as was Isaac, with that seed in them: Christ in you the hope of glory.
They are the prophesied remnant returned from the captivity of the whole world, being born in sin and uncircumcised of heart. That remnant are now born of the Spirit and walking in natural bodies on earth: they are holy nation and royal priesthood of the covenant of God made with Abraham and fulfilled with His seed: Jesus Christ and His many brethren grafted into the house of Israel and of Jacob.
That's the lost sheep of the house of Israel, aka the northern kingdom. The NIV blew it on this one.
Perhaps a difference is that I don't consider OT prophecy to be abrogated by NT Scritpure.
I believe there is a harmony.
Much love!
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
The niv blew it on a whole lot more than that my friend . A whole mess more .
You’re wrong on so many levels.
The new covenant Jesus brought is the new covenant God promised would still be with the HOUSE OF ISRAEL, per Jeremiah 31, which Hebrews 8,9 and 10 makes clear, and says took effect at His death, and per Romans 11, salvation was only offered to the gentiles TO MAKE ISRAEL JEALOUS, and gentiles who are saved by faith in the Jewish Messiah Jesus, become part of the new covenant with the HOUSE of Israel, by being grafted as wild Olive branches among the natural branches of the Olive tree of Israel, with Jesus being the root of the tree.
Currently per Romans 11 only a remnant of the elect nation of Israel believes in Jesus and is in their own new covenant God has made with the House of Israel and thus have Gods indwelling Holy Spirit within them, which is how Gods laws are written in their hearts, and the rest are blinded until the deliverer comes out of Zion, then all Israel living at the time Jesus returns will be saved - they will realize Jesus is their Messiah, then believe, and be saved.
Romans 11 starts off with Paul stating unequivocally that God HAS NOT CAST OFF HIS PEOPLE, the nation of Israel.
Rom 11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
Rom 11:2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew
Rom 11:7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded
Rom 11:11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.
Rom 11:17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
Rom 11:18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
Rom 11:23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.
Rom 11:24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?
Rom 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
Rom 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
Rom 11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
Rom 11:28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.
Rom 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
Maranatha
I don't consider OT prophecy to be abrogated by NT Scritpure.
Neither do I. All OT promise and prophecy is fulfilled in Jesus Christ and His new covenant of God. It is that old covenant with a seed of flesh that has been done away with, along with that natural seed, so that the seed of the Spirit in natural bodies could be brought. That is the harmony sought for by scholarship in OT Scripture, which can never be done without NT confirmation. Even as blind Israel after the flesh will never see Jesus as the promised seed, because they read all OT Scripture with Moses only in their eyes.
NT Scripture confirms and reveals OT prophecy in Christ, who is the promised seed of Abraham, and in whom all the seed of Israel is justified and glories, which prophecy is clearly fulfilled in Christ and His New Testament church:
Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else. I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear. Surely, shall one say, in the LORD have I righteousness and strength: even to him shall men come; and all that are incensed against him shall be ashamed. In the LORD shall all the seed of Israel be justified, and shall glory. (Is 45)
This single prophecy of Scripture alone, of which there are many, proves the promised covenant to Abraham is fulfilled only in the promised seed of Christ: them born of Him are the children of His seed, and are become the promised seed of Israel to be multiplied as the stars of heaven.
1. God calling to all ends of the earth can only be fulfilled by the preaching of the gospel. (Matthew 24:14)
2. The day of every knee bowing is fulfilled at the judgment seat of Christ. (Rom 14:11)
3. Jesus is the One to whom men are come for fulfillment of the prophecy in them, to be grafted into the house of Israel and of Judah, and all others of flesh shall be ashamed, no matter by what name they call themselves.
4. In the Lord Jesus shall all the seed of Israel be justified and in whom we glory:
But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ.
To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Nations; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory.
The seed still trying to glory in their natural heritage, glory in vain.
Only NT Scripture makes it very clear who the promised seed of Abraham is: Jesus Christ, and them who come to Him by faith. To try and include any people only born of flesh, in that promise to Abraham is to contradict simple NT teaching of Scripture by Jesus: The flesh profiteth nothing.
That was a new declaration of Scripture by the God of Israel to His own people, which offended many, because the promise to the seed had always been in the flesh: both by birth and circumcision, without which none could be children of the seed of Abraham and partakers of his promise from God.
It's just the way it is. Israel after the flesh is now in name only, and they are no better or worse than any other uncircumcised nation on earth, before the risen God of Israel. And I certainly know how it is to abrogate all the old scholarship of the OT Scriptures pertaining to the promised seed of Abraham. I spent many years studying in such research and respected good teachers for their study and time in it, but I ceased to just gloss over plainly written Scripture in the NT, that caused me to question it, and now reject it.
Paul spent some time in Arabia, immediately after Damascus, before beginning his ministry in Christ, no doubt studying the Scriptures in solitude to see exactly how they had all gotten it so wrong. With all their scholarship and much study, they completely missed the promised seed to come, and so it is with Christians today who completely miss the fulfillment of all prophecy in the coming of that seed, Jesus Christ, and the building again of the tabernacle of David with grafted in branches of the tree, by adding to His church daily such as should be saved.
The Redeemer out of Sion has come, and now all Israel is saved in the green tree of the house of Israel and of Judah.
And when He comes a 2nd time, it will not be for the unbelieving Israel after the flesh, but for the believing saints everywhere on earth and in the earth:
And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
They who do not receive Him the 1st time of His coming, will not be recieved by Him at the 2nd:
For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.
The last days of great tribulation are here, and the remnant seed of David are purified thereby, even as promised in Acts 14. And when those last days turn into the great tribulation of wrath of the Lamb with grievous plagues, none shall be saved, for the children of Abraham, and of Israel, and of Judah will have been resurrected into the air to meet with their Lord Jesus Christ.
It is not possible by NT Scripture nor by any sense of all Scripture, that the children of Abraham, the children of promise, and the children of God born after the Spirit by the promised seed of Christ, even as Isaac was (Gal 4), cannot dare be called the children of Israel in natural bodies, simply because OT scholarship will not allow for NT Scripture the true interpretation of all Scripture and all prophecy of Scripture.
Several very plain and simple Scriptures must abrogate any OT scholarship, if it results in bestowing any people born after the flesh with the promise of God to Abraham, except they repent and believe Jesus:
Neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh.
The flesh profiteth nothing.
Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ. For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
There is no more difference between Gentile and Jew, neither in the body of Christ , nor outside the body Christ, for there is no more outward circumcision of the flesh before God: all are either the uncircumcised, or they are circumcised with the circumcision of Christ.
Israel after the flesh is just another blind uncircumcised nation on earth, and all such nations are now treading the outer court of God's temple in Christ Jesus, for yet a little while longer, whether it be an hour, a day, a week, a month, a year, or a thousand years, at which time the Father will send His Son to receive His saints in the air, and then rain judgment of wrath upon the rest of the inhabiters of the earth, where there is no Jew nor Gentile, but only the uncircumcised unbelievers.
And that can include us, if we become high minded and likewise be cut off as all the branches were. But though ll the natural branches were broken off, there will be remnant of the grafted in branches alive and remaining on the earth to the the 2nd day of the Lord's coming.
'Look unto Me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth:
for I am God, and there is none else.
I have sworn by Myself,
the word is gone out of My mouth in righteousness,
and shall not return,
That unto me every knee shall bow,
every tongue shall swear.
Surely, shall one say, in the LORD have I righteousness and strength:
even to Him shall men come;
and all that are incensed against Him shall be ashamed.
In the LORD shall all the seed of Israel be justified, and shall glory.'
(Isa 45:22-25)
Hello @robert derrick,
God means what He says, and says what He means. If He is referring to Israel, then it is Israel that He means. Those whose lineage goes back to Abraham through Isaac. Isaiah 45:25 that you quote, is referencing the nation of Israel, and not the Church.
The Olive tree of Israel is no longer there to be grafted into, for Israel itself is in a Lo-ammi condition. Salvation is no longer of the Jew as it was, for salvation has been sent to the Gentiles, and it is Christ among us that is our hope of glory now. Israel is in a condition of blindness and unbelief. That is a temporary condition though, for one day they will be brought to repentance, and God's will for them will be accomplished as He has promised.
So do not rob them of the prophecies made concerning them, or apply what is theirs to the Church. For we have already been blessed beyond measure in Christ Jesus our Lord.
In Christ Jesus
Chris
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You are missing the information in Romans 11, you definitely need to learn what it says.
God has not cast out national Israel, nor is through with them, and in fact salvation came to the gentiles to make unbelieving Israel Jealous, the gentiles are grafted onto the Olive tree of Israel by faith - we don’t have a separate covenant - there’s no such thing as a church covenant, and most of Israel is blinded temporarily, and is ungodly, until the age of the gentiles is fulfilled, and Jesus comes out of Zion as the deliverer and turns them from unrighteousness, THEN Jacob becomes godly, and all Israel alive to see Jesus return, believes, and is saved.
Jesus in fact returns to Mount Olive and Jerusalem at His second coming, Zechariah 14:5, ( to set up His eternal kingdom on earth, and reign from the throne of David in Jerusalem), and saves that Israeli city from destruction.
He comes to mount Olive with all the saints, verse 5, who are all who believed in Jesus and have been saved, Greek or Jew, male or female, slave or free, there is no difference.
In the meantime realize national Israel (the HOUSE of Israel) remains Gods covenant people, we have to be grafted as wild Olive branches - among the natural branches - onto the Israeli Olive tree, and Jesus is the roots of that tree, all per Romans 11, Hebrews 8,9 and 10, and Jeremiah 31.
Shalom Aleichem
Maranatha
You are missing the information in Romans 11, you definitely need to learn what it says.
You are reading into interpretation of OT prophecy that is missing NT Scriptures. You definitely need to learn what it says without the preconceived OT scholarship.
Romans 11 is not Scripture declaring the natural seed is still the people of God with promise of Abraham.
The promise to Abraham's seed, even as the covenant, is now the covenant promise of God to Christ's seed, Him being the one promised seed to come (Gal 3), and so the firstborn of many seed as stars of the sky.
The 'Abrahamic' covenant is now only kept and confirmed in Christ.
Romans 11 is to warn us not to be high minded about their being broken off, and thinking that natural people can never have promise of God again, after crucifying the promised seed to come. They can be grafted in again for the faithful fathers' sake.
They are not believed for their natural birth of flesh. There is no more such profit in the flesh with God:
It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing.
The grafted in ones are now the only promised seed of Abraham, born by promise and quickened after the Spirit, as was Isaac. (Gal 4)
teamventure
Well-Known Member
- Sep 6, 2011
- 1,646
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Absolutely wrong.
So, that's the best you have.
Read Romans 11:1-2
Done that, and explained that.
You have no answer for it, then believe what you want.
In every dispute of Scripture there is always one Scripture like a pearl of great price, that concludes the argument:
They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
No children of flesh are the children of God. Nor the children of the promise of God, nor counted as the promised seed of Abraham by God.
The risen God of Israel has only one Israel and people of Israel: My people Israel.
And who are God's people? The children of God and of promise counted for the seed of Abraham. I.e. they that were not a people, but are now the people of God.
And they that were a people by flesh, are not a people of God, except they repent and believe Jesus.
So, who is the risen God of Israel's My people Israel? The people and children of God and of promise counted for the promised seed of Abraham, not born of the flesh, but after the Spirit, as was Isaac.
And Israel after the flesh? They don't count with God anymore. Because flesh doesn't count anymore. As Jesus says, the flesh profiteth nothing.
So what does unbelieving Israel after the flesh have? Flesh. Which don't count anymore.
They do have many desiring them to be promised of God and counted for the seed, for the sake of their interpretation of prophecy.
Other than that? Flesh without profit. And children of flesh without God nor promise, nor counted for the seed of Abraham.
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Another pearl:
Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.
If anyone is not a child of Abraham, they cannot possibly be a child of Isaac, and so cannot possibly be a child of Jacob, and so cannot possibly be a child of Israel.
Unless, there is an 'Israel' that is not of Jacob, and so not of Isaac, and so not of Abraham. But such an 'Israel' of course is not My people Israel, because such an Israel cannot be a child of Abraham, not being of Jacob, nor Isaac.
Well, there is one that can be a child of Abraham and not a child of Isaac nor of Jacob: Ishmael.
And that would be the one unbelieving 'Israel' after the flesh is born of, with a promise from the covenant of Hagar: bondage. Which Scripture testifies to be so. (Gal 4)
Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.
If anyone is not a child of Abraham, they cannot possibly be a child of Isaac, and so cannot possibly be a child of Jacob, and so cannot possibly be a child of Israel.
Unless, there is an 'Israel' that is not of Jacob, and so not of Isaac, and so not of Abraham. But such an 'Israel' of course is not My people Israel, because such an Israel cannot be a child of Abraham, not being of Jacob, nor Isaac.
Well, there is one that can be a child of Abraham and not a child of Isaac nor of Jacob: Ishmael.
And that would be the one unbelieving 'Israel' after the flesh is born of, with a promise from the covenant of Hagar: bondage. Which Scripture testifies to be so. (Gal 4)
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