The seed of Israel
- Thread starter robert derrick
- Start date
-
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
Yes, I have had LOTS of practice at copying and pasting Scripture! You should try it.
Well, I see Israel on the map. I don't see the Israel wannabees who are trying to steal Israel's identity.
You've never heard of Israel? Get a map.
The Israel wannabees are indeed quite confused by Satan. They are standing outside of Israel looking in, much like these, filled with jealousy of Israel and heading for destruction.
Zechariah 14:12 (NKJV)
12 And this shall be the plague with which the LORD will strike all the people who fought against Jerusalem: Their flesh shall dissolve while they stand on their feet, Their eyes shall dissolve in their sockets, And their tongues shall dissolve in their mouths.
Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
The children of Israel after the flesh were no more the promised seed of Abraham, as Isaac was, when the law was added to the covenant, because of their transgressions.
NT Scripture is reveals this by Paul speaking of the law being added, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made.
And so why were they cut off from the promised seed? Because of their transgressions of idolatry and fornication at the very base of the mount, while the God of Israel was writing with His own finger a covenant of commandments and judgements only. No law written therein.
God was ready to kill them all, but Moses interceded. Afterward, God was forced to go to law with that rebellious people, and so the law given to Moses was added to the covenant at that time, which Moses wrote on tables of stone he hewed out.
That is why that covenant was called the first covenant, because it was the first time ever a covenant was made by law. Such a covenant is not between friends who go by promise, as Abraham did, and needed no written law between them, being called, The Friend of God.
Now therefore there is utterly a fault among you, because ye go to law one with another.
At that point Scripture never refers to that natural born people as the seed of Abraham, but are always spoken to by God pertaining to their own seed, not Abraham's.
Speak unto Aaron, saying, Whosoever he be of thy seed in their generations...
It was now their own seed in their own generations, that God was covenanted with, but only until the promised seed should come.
Which is Christ, and His people Israel, whose hearts He does circumcise according to the prophecy (Deut 30:6), to love Him and keep His commandments and live.
And now that seed and children of flesh have no covenant nor law no promise nor circumcision nor faith with the risen God of Israel. All they have is their flesh, uncircumcised nation, and false religion.
Only the children of faith are the children of Abraham and counted the seed (Gal 3:7).
Those with faith of old under the law, were brought into the seed as the dead in Christ, and those alive and remaining with faith are circumcised into the house of Israel and of Judah.
God has only one Israel and people: those of faith and circumcised of Christ.
No unbelieving uncircumcised strangers are seed of promise and children of Abraham, not even if they do call their own nation in their own generations by their own seed, 'Israel', which to God in name only and now called by Scripture Israel after the flesh.
To call that kind of nation a promised people with covenant of God is contrary to all NT teaching of Scripture, even if it does have most-favored nation status by them that have respect of persons according to the flesh in the covenant of Christ.
The children of Israel after the flesh were no more the promised seed of Abraham, as Isaac was, when the law was added to the covenant, because of their transgressions.
NT Scripture is reveals this by Paul speaking of the law being added, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made.
And so why were they cut off from the promised seed? Because of their transgressions of idolatry and fornication at the very base of the mount, while the God of Israel was writing with His own finger a covenant of commandments and judgements only. No law written therein.
God was ready to kill them all, but Moses interceded. Afterward, God was forced to go to law with that rebellious people, and so the law given to Moses was added to the covenant at that time, which Moses wrote on tables of stone he hewed out.
That is why that covenant was called the first covenant, because it was the first time ever a covenant was made by law. Such a covenant is not between friends who go by promise, as Abraham did, and needed no written law between them, being called, The Friend of God.
Now therefore there is utterly a fault among you, because ye go to law one with another.
At that point Scripture never refers to that natural born people as the seed of Abraham, but are always spoken to by God pertaining to their own seed, not Abraham's.
Speak unto Aaron, saying, Whosoever he be of thy seed in their generations...
It was now their own seed in their own generations, that God was covenanted with, but only until the promised seed should come.
Which is Christ, and His people Israel, whose hearts He does circumcise according to the prophecy (Deut 30:6), to love Him and keep His commandments and live.
And now that seed and children of flesh have no covenant nor law no promise nor circumcision nor faith with the risen God of Israel. All they have is their flesh, uncircumcised nation, and false religion.
Only the children of faith are the children of Abraham and counted the seed (Gal 3:7).
Those with faith of old under the law, were brought into the seed as the dead in Christ, and those alive and remaining with faith are circumcised into the house of Israel and of Judah.
God has only one Israel and people: those of faith and circumcised of Christ.
No unbelieving uncircumcised strangers are seed of promise and children of Abraham, not even if they do call their own nation in their own generations by their own seed, 'Israel', which to God in name only and now called by Scripture Israel after the flesh.
To call that kind of nation a promised people with covenant of God is contrary to all NT teaching of Scripture, even if it does have most-favored nation status by them that have respect of persons according to the flesh in the covenant of Christ.
Isaiah 45:25 that you quote, is referencing the nation of Israel, and not the Church.
Read it with NT eyes, and you can plainly see it is confirmed in Christ Jesus, at who's name every knee...
He was prophesying to that people, and was referencing the church and body of Christ.
That church in the wilderness is no longer God's church on earth.
God means what He says, and says what He means. If He is referring to Israel, then it is Israel that He means.
True, And He meant it when He promise He would cut them all off for transgressions, and He did.
And now the risen God of Israel has a remnant seed in Himself. My people Israel are Christ's people, which are God's people, which are the children of Abraham and counted for the seed, which does not include any children of the flesh.
Try reading OT prophecy with NT Scripture, and you'll learn how to stop having respect of persons in the faith according to the flesh.
My people Israel are the people of the risen God of Israel's. Simple and true according to the New Testament of Christ.
The Olive tree of Israel is no longer there to be grafted into, for Israel itself is in a Lo-ammi condition.
You've got some fine Lo-ammi there, but no Scripture. Don't read anywhere that the green olive tree of God no longer exists, and we are not grafted into it anymore after the days of Paul, who said we are.
What doesn't exist anymore as that cursed fig tree, that did not render it's fruits when the promised One came, and had Him killed to have the inheritance for themselves. Which they have. A cursed fig tree and uncircumcised nation of their own, worshipping in a false religion called the Jews religion.
Israel is in a condition of blindness and unbelief.
True. Israel after the flesh is. Which is not Christ's and so is not God's. God has no covenant nor nation nor people blindly unbelieving trusting in their own seed, which is not that of Abraham:
Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.
They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
You have the people of flesh to prophesy on behalf of, and I have NT Scripture to read all prophesy by.
That is a temporary condition though
True, So soon as any of them repent and believe Jesus, they can be grafted in again, even as Paul said, with himself as chief example.
for one day they will be brought to repentance
And that day of the Lord has already come, when the Redeemer came out of Sion to them, and that day is today:
While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation.
God's will for them will be accomplished as He has promised.
True. In Christ. For them and any other children of flesh, that repent and believe Jesus.
So do not rob them of the prophecies made concerning them.
So do not idolize them as a promised seed of flesh. Which ended long ago.
Letting people think they don't need to be grafted in while the day is at hand, because they may get to see Him from the air with their own eyes, and then begin to believe, is not only not winning any souls to Christ, but it is also contrary to NT Scripture:
Blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.
For we walk by faith, not by sight.
I suggest you read OT prophesy with NT Scripture, and stop aiding the blind in their blindness and false covenant of hope, that is with death and hell. (Is 28)
Or not. Keep believing what you want, and feel really charitable about not 'robbing' them of their unbelief.
The only thing I am obviously robbing anyone of is their much studied scholarship of OT prophesy with eyes of flesh, that have probably been red with weariness from time to time, and so refuse to let go of it, even if NT Scripture cuts it short by just one or two simple verses.
Last edited:
No???
Man!!! I had all this Scripture and good sense of it, and getting more and more by the day, and now I find out it's all wrong???
And all it took was one genius telling me I'm not Israel!!!
Drat.
Wait. Since you've never brought anything to the table worth mentioning, then I'll just ignore this one too.
I'm still Israel!!!!
Whew, that was a close one.
In the meantime realize national Israel (the HOUSE of Israel) remains Gods covenant people.
NT Scripture always helps correct the errors in reading OT prophecy through a vail of flesh:
And ye are Christ's; and Christ is God's.
Christ's covenant is God's covenant.
God does not have two different covenants with two different people, even as He has only one seed of promise, not seeds, which is Christ. (Gal 3)
Therefore they that are Christ's are Christ's covenant people, and so are God's covenant people.
God has no blind, unbelieving, and uncircumcised covenant people of the flesh, no matter what they like call their nation. Neither does Abraham. (Rom 9:8)
To say any children of flesh are God's covenant people is the opposite of NT Scripture. And if someone doesn't read NT Scripture, but only OT Scripture with the vail of Moses over their hearts, then I completely understand the confusion on their part.
It is not possible to be a child and promised seed of Abraham and not be that of Isaac and of Jacob. Except Ishmael.
Christians are not Ishmael, nor in the his mother's covenant of Hagar. (Gal 4) That is for the children of the flesh still in bondage.
And just to be clear. This is all about Scripture and covenant with the God of Scripture. So far as that nation called Israel on earth, I love it. Not because of any birthright they no longer have, but because they are a great nation of freedom loving people, and I would love to see them push the countries around them into the sea that is behind them: The Pacific ocean.
I have nothing against the 'Jews'. I just don't idolize them as a sacrosanct people by false reading of old prophecy.
Neither do I blame them for having Christ crucified, for I wot not they did it in unbelief. And if any of them will repent and believe, then we have another brother or sister in Christ grafted into the house of Israel and of Judah.
So, you people brag about how blind and unbelieving they are, and then say others are jealous of it? Jealous of what? Being blind and unbelieving?
And you make yourself one looking in from the outside, just not with jealousy?
As someone on the outside of Israel after the flesh, and know they have no profit with God after the flesh, I'm not even looking into what they got left. Much less jealous of it.
You have seriously confusing issues in your mind.
How old are you?
You people?
Did you read what God said about the Israel wannabees?
Zechariah 14:12 (KJV)
12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the LORD will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.
teamventure
Well-Known Member
- Sep 6, 2011
- 1,646
- 550
- 113
If it's a false teaching then it's out of your hands, because it's about more than you, you don't have a say.
for one day national Israel will be brought to repentance
God has always allowed tribulation to come upon His people in order to purify them to Himself. It was allowed to the old natural seed, and is now promised to the promised seed:
Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.
And the last days of great tribulation on earth are supposed to soften up a people of flesh in strong delusion of a false religion?
Exactly how is it that threatening Israel after the flesh, on pains of death, to deny Christ, going to compel them into the body of Christ?
After all, the antichrist and beast will be making war with the saints of the Lamb and His witnesses on earth, which is persecution for the faith of Jesus.
So put yourself in their shoes. A gvt power comes to your doorstep to destroy the doctrine of Christ, by compelling your denial of Christ with threat of death, and you are a worshipper in the Jews religion.
So, exactly how is it you are going to repent and confess Jesus on the spot, and then bow the head for beheading???
What happened when the Romans came to destroy the zealot Jews, who were supposed to be making a stand for the LORD God of Israel?
Did they repent en masse and believe Jesus? No. The died en masse for no reason, and got their city sacked and raised to the ground.
If anything, great tribulation on earth moves people to purify themselves in their own religion, not to jump religions.
Those worshipping the Jews religion will be part of the warfare against the saints in the last days of great tribulation, even as they were the only ones making war with the saints in the beginning of the body of Christ.
An antichrist beast will lead them in it, even as Jesus prophesied:
I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.
OT prophecy read without NT Scripture for the sake of a people of flesh is without any sense of Scripture, nor any practical sense at all.
God has always allowed tribulation to come upon His people in order to purify them to Himself. It was allowed to the old natural seed, and is now promised to the promised seed:
Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.
And the last days of great tribulation on earth are supposed to soften up a people of flesh in strong delusion of a false religion?
Exactly how is it that threatening Israel after the flesh, on pains of death, to deny Christ, going to compel them into the body of Christ?
After all, the antichrist and beast will be making war with the saints of the Lamb and His witnesses on earth, which is persecution for the faith of Jesus.
So put yourself in their shoes. A gvt power comes to your doorstep to destroy the doctrine of Christ, by compelling your denial of Christ with threat of death, and you are a worshipper in the Jews religion.
So, exactly how is it you are going to repent and confess Jesus on the spot, and then bow the head for beheading???
What happened when the Romans came to destroy the zealot Jews, who were supposed to be making a stand for the LORD God of Israel?
Did they repent en masse and believe Jesus? No. The died en masse for no reason, and got their city sacked and raised to the ground.
If anything, great tribulation on earth moves people to purify themselves in their own religion, not to jump religions.
Those worshipping the Jews religion will be part of the warfare against the saints in the last days of great tribulation, even as they were the only ones making war with the saints in the beginning of the body of Christ.
An antichrist beast will lead them in it, even as Jesus prophesied:
I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.
OT prophecy read without NT Scripture for the sake of a people of flesh is without any sense of Scripture, nor any practical sense at all.
Last edited:
teamventure
Well-Known Member
- Sep 6, 2011
- 1,646
- 550
- 113
You people? You mean Christians? Are you not a born again Christian then?
Whatever. Believe what you want or don't want. Your opinion is nothing to me.
Now, if you were ever do become adult enough to challenge my reading of Scripture with reading of your own, then you would be worth something to read.
I do gladly accept all challenges, because most of the time, they serve to perfect my reading as true.
So, please do. Become someone worth respecting.
Or not. It's your life. Do what you want.
And your anti Israel opinions are nothing to Israel lovers. You're not Israel!
What? Is that like the race card or something.
You people of course means you people that read OT prophecy with respect of a certain flesh on earth.
Which you knew. So, your 'Christian' claim is spotty.
For our rejoicing is this, the testimony of our conscience, that in simplicity and godly sincerity, not with fleshly wisdom, but by the grace of God, we have had our conversation in the world, and more abundantly to you-ward.
BOLD. Very BOLD indeed.
If you loved me, you would correct me in the Scriptures, rather than play childish games of gotcha.
Take any point I have made with the Scripture I quote, and refute it by your own reading of it, or by another Scripture that proves my reading false.
Then I will love you for it.
In the meantime. Scat.
Similar threads
