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marks

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Paul was under the law when he was a Pharisee, just as the person depicted in Romans 7:14-23 is under the law. The laws are not written on the heart through the Spirit - YET!
Paul explained in practical application what he said elsewhere that the Law empowers and increases sin. He shows how that happened with himself.

Then he goes on to explain that God's remedy is to justify us - which is to separate us from sin through death and resurrection. Death that satisfies the law of sin and death, specifically, the soul that sins shall die. We've died in Christ, so the Law is satisfied. Resurrection that brings a new and righteous and holy life.

In the inner man, we serve God, but the flesh does not serve God.

Now . . . here's the key.

This fact does not mean we cannot control our flesh. It just means, well, the same thing as in Galatians 3, the flesh lusts against the spirit. It means that even though we have self control by the Holy Spirit, the flesh doesn't just fall silent.

Just because the flesh continues to serve sin, that doesn't mean we have to buy into that idea and let it. When we realize that even though the flesh remains corrupt, we are free, and not under it's power.

Much love!
 
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marks

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What do you mean "no one has to." If you do not have Christ living inside you, you WILL struggle with sin. For all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. Only after being filled with the Spirit of Christ are you free from sin and death.
I'm sorry, I'm talking about the born again.

If you don't have Christ, you won't struggle with sin. You'll just do it.

Much love!
 
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marks

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I memorized much of scripture in those first 30 years, but it was a completely sobering and horrifying realization that I had not been on the path toward salvation. What if I had died?
What if I had been successful in trying to suicide at 17? But that's why God didn't let my 4X fatal dose do anything. I would have remained condemned!

Isn't it wonderful having such a Faithul Creator?

Much love!
 
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marks

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You'll just SIN???

I'm outta here.
You don't think the unsaved continue in sin? Or you are thinking that the the fleshy man - not reborn - can produce the righteousness of God? Can do anything out of faith in God?

All that is not of faith is sin. This is God's word to the world. The unsaved do not have faith, and without faith, it is IMPOSSIBLE to please God. The carnal mind is hostile to God and cannot please Him, and cannot keep His law.

Only in faith in Christ do we have victory over sin.

Remember . . . The OT was a covering for sin without a change of who we are.

And remember, someone who is unsaved may look good to themself. But that's just their opinion of themself.

Much love!
 

marks

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Hey Cl,
I do believe Marks is talking about those who do "not" have Christ. The unbelievers have no struggle at all as, they are blinded?
They live according to their nature, corrupt. No other option. Just living from the flesh.

Much love!
 
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CharismaticLady

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You don't think the unsaved continue in sin? Or you are thinking that the the fleshy man - not reborn - can produce the righteousness of God? Can do anything out of faith in God?

All that is not of faith is sin. This is God's word to the world. The unsaved do not have faith, and without faith, it is IMPOSSIBLE to please God. The carnal mind is hostile to God and cannot please Him, and cannot keep His law.

Only in faith in Christ do we have victory over sin.

Remember . . . The OT was a covering for sin without a change of who we are.

And remember, someone who is unsaved may look good to themself. But that's just their opinion of themself.

Much love!

ROFL I read it completely WRONG! My bad. Whew! You had me going there!
 
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Behold

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If you have to struggle to keep yourself from sinning, then you are not born again.

What you wrote defies the NT.
Apparently you are not aware of your own propensity to accuse people falsely on a public forum, as "sin".
If you wake up and realize yourself, you'll discover that you have issues in this regard, that you can't even recognize as "flesh".

So, the reality is, if you are not in the good fight, you are not in the fight at all.
Paul said that we put on the whole armor of God to STAND against the "wiles of the Devil", and this includes dealing with our own fallen nature that is always pulling us towards the world, the flesh, and the devil.
Paul explains the deliverance not as being given the Victory over all this... is in the context of overcoming, by FAITH, by BELIEF,,,,,by right believing.

I'll give you another idea, Reader...
Your NT says that "Jesus LEARNED Obedience, by the things He SUFFERED".
Now do you see that?
That is the Prince of Glory....God Himself, having to learn something... once Deity was walking about as a MAN.
And this is exactly how it is for the real born again......we have to learn how to exist in Right Believing, or we will FALL and live in a confessing, repenting, failed discipleship..
And i'll tell you something else....... For those of you who come to the perfected place of the right mind, and you no longer exist in a "im keeping myself saved", carnal mentality, you will find that you have to maintain this mind......or you can find yourself beset with wrong believing.
See, the Grace of God, as its is applied, and as it exists, is the polar opposite of how our natural minds thinks about it.
Its our natural inclination to think that we are to DO SOMETHING to have it, or keep it.
So, to get out of that carnal understanding, takes a Revelation, and this revelation has once attained, has to be maintained.
 

keithr

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All the born again are dead, already.
We died, and we were born anew as "new Creations in Christ".
This is why we will receive a new body......It will house the NEW Us, the BORN AGAIN, Us. = The REAL Us.
There is no more death for us, there is only the shedding of the body as we enter into the new one.

Again, I believe that we have been begotten, not that we have died and instantly been born again, living in the same body as before. As Paul said in 2Cor 5:1-4 (WEB):

"For we know that if the earthly house of our tent is dissolved, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal, in the heavens.
For most certainly in this we groan, longing to be clothed with our habitation which is from heaven; if so be that being clothed we will not be found naked. For indeed we who are in this tent do groan, being burdened; not that we desire to be unclothed, but that we desire to be clothed, that what is mortal may be swallowed up by life."

The new spiritual body that we will have (when we have been born again, after dying the first death) will be immortal. We don't have that now, and we could still be rejected as unworthy to become a member of the new creation. As Paul also said, "But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway" (1Cor 9:27).

Most Christians will die, and while dead are referred to as sleeping. Paul again said, "Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality" (1Cor 15:51-53).

As Jesus sacrificed his human life for us, so must we as members of the body of Christ also sacrifice our human lives. Only after we have died can we then be born again as a member of God's new creation in Christ. Jesus was the first born from the dead (Colossians 1:18), and we also will be born again after we have died (unless we have a part in the rapture!). Only then will we be changed and become immortal.

All of the merit of Jesus' sacrifice has been applied to Christians, and to Christians only. There's no holding back of the merit of his sacrifice, all of it must be applied, whether to redeem one life or millions of lives. In order for God to justify the redeeming of the rest of mankind that merit must be returned. It can then be applied to the rest of mankind so that they can be resurrected. That's why Christians, who have been redeemed, must sacrifice their human lives too, and die. "Gather my saints together unto me; those that have made a covenant with me by sacrifice" (Ps 50:5). This is also why the church is resurrected first, because the rest of mankind cannot be resurrected until all of the Christians have died, and the merit of Jesus' sacrifice returned to be applied again.
 
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CharismaticLady

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What you wrote defies the NT.

Only according to you, because you have no idea the true reason Jesus came to die for us. I know you are teaching in good faith that what you believe is the truth, and I can respect that, but you have no idea what you are doing to those who believe what you teach. God forgive you.
 

marks

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you will find that you have to maintain this mind......or you can find yourself beset with wrong believing.
Yes, we still have to be vigilant, only, this is where we nip in the bud!

:)
 

Behold

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Again, I believe that we have been begotten, not that we have died and instantly been born again, .

Keither,

Jesus said.......talking to a man, a sinner....(John 3)...."you must be born again"....
And this is not a request to do it after you die.
Its is a demand and a command that you do it, while you are found still breathing.

Have you yet?

IF you have not, then this is you........ John 3:36
 

Behold

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Only according to you, because you have no idea the true reason Jesus came to die for us.

Jesus, who is God, came to bring us home to Heaven, by His Blood, Death, and Resurrection. John 3:16
He is the Living Resurrection, who lives in ALL the born again.
The Power He has, which is Holiness Itself, is become us, as "the gift of Righteousness".
This gift of Righteousness, is who we are become, as born again into the very Spirit of God, "ONE" with God and Christ.= forever.

This Gift, when understood correctly, and abided in accordingly, empowers us to live in perfected discipleship, and over time, creates us "perfect", "as the fullness of the Stature of Christ", which is to come to a place in our walk with God which Paul explains it as "it is not i who lives, but Christ who lives in me".
This is the "prize of the High Calling of God".

My advice to you, is to study what i just wrote and turn your life into that Light, asap.
If you will, then you wont be living inside one obscure verse written by Peter, and you can find your way out of your theological chains.
That is my hope for you, charismaticlady.
 

keithr

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Keither,

Jesus said.......talking to a man, a sinner....(John 3)...."you must be born again"....
And this is not a request to do it after you die.
Its is a demand and a command that you do it, while you are found still breathing.
Jesus dosen't say in the John 3 discourse when you must be born again, and he certainly dosen't say that you must be alive and breathing in order to be born again. Indeed, the apostle Paul says, "But someone will say, How are the dead raised up, and with what body do they come? Foolish one! What you sow is not made alive unless it dies" (1Co 15:35,36). So we have to die before God gives us our new resurrection body; "And God gives it a body as it has pleased Him" (1Co 15:38).

Neither is it a command, as if it is something that we can and should do! Jesus is merely stating the truth, that in order to "see the kingdom of God” we will have to be born again. As Paul said, while talking of resurrection body that Christians will have (1Co 15:50), "I say this, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does corruption inherit incorruption". In other words, humans cannot inherit or see God's kingdom, because it is impossible for humans to exist in heaven. To go to heaven most likely means living in extra dimensions that as physical humans we don't have access to.

Have you yet?
It's not something that we can do. It is God that begets us, and it is a gift from Him, not something we can earn by what we do: "Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning. Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures." (Jas 1:17,18).

(Rom 6:23, WEB) "For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord".
 
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keithr

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Jesus, who is God, came to bring us home to Heaven, by His Blood, Death, and Resurrection. John 3:16

Jesus is not God, but that is a wholly different and long discussion! That famous verse, spoken by Jesus, says that Jesus was God's only begotten son, and that whoever believes in Jesus can have eternal life - it says nothing about going home to heaven. Christians will be resurrected as spirit beings and live in heaven, but the rest of mankind will be resurrected as humans and live on the earth. All those will have eternal life; only those that refuse to believe in and be obedient to Jesus will not have eternal life, and will suffer the second death (Rev 20:14,15 WEB, "Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. If anyone was not found written in the book of life, he was cast into the lake of fire").

Jesus came in the flesh in order to offer himself as a sacrifice in order to redeem all mankind from the curse of sin, so that we might have the opportunity of eternal life. He did this out of love for us, but mainly because God does not wish that anyone should perish. (2 Peter 3:9).
 
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Behold

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Jesus dosen't say in the John 3 discourse when you must be born again, and he certainly dosen't say that you must be alive and breathing in order to be born again.

Your argument is not based in logic or regarding common sense.

Listen, God judges Christ Rejectors, after they DIE.
Would he judge them after they die, if they had a 2nd Chance to receive Christ after they die?
Not even the Devil would be stupid enough to stand before Holy God at the White Throne Judgment and say....>>"you know, i think i'll just go ahead and choose to burn in the lake of fire".
So, think on that...
Also....
Would Christ have sent out the Apostles and the Evangelists and the Soul winners, as "go into all the world and preach the Gospel".....if all sinners could enjoy their sin on earth till they die, knowing that they are going to get a 2nd chance to be "born again", after they die?
You are not thinking, keithr.
You need to start.

Listen, we are to be born again on Earth, to solve an ETERNAL PROBLEM that takes place after we DIE.
This problem is....where do you end up, after you die, for all eternity. ????
YOU GET TO CHOOSE IT. !!

Listen Reader.....Both Heaven and Hell are chosen, while we are on earth.
Anyone who ends up in HELL< made their choice to go there, while they were Breathing on the Earth = CHRIST REJECTOR.

And all who called on the name of Jesus, by faith, and were born again, made THEIR Choice to go to HEAVEN while you were breathing on the Earth.

Both Heaven and Hell are simply final destinations that we chose as our eternity.
Thats a fact.
So, choose wisely where you will end up after you die, as GOD will HONOR YOUR CHOICE for all eternity.
Thats a fact.


Hell, is for the "i never was born again", on Earth. The CHRIST REJECTOR.

Heaven, is for the "Jesus said i must be born again, and i AM.....thank you JESUS !!".

And this...

Christ died on EARTH. And you will be born again on EARTH, or you never will be at all.


The reason a born again Christian meets God after they Die as their FATHER, is because they were born again on EARTH as God's SON.

If you are not born again on Earth, you will meet God as your eternal JUDGE...... John 3:36 and He will Judge you for not being born again, which means you died a CHRIST REJECTOR.

Listen.. today, while you were sleeping, thousands of unbelievers, the non born gain, died and hit hell like a bullet.
What are they doing right now?
Wishing to GOD they had been born again on earth.
= They can forget it.
There are NO SECOND CHANCE found in HELL.
 
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Behold

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Jesus is not God,

Kither,

The Pharisees hated Jesus for a few reasons, but the biggie, other then envy, was the fact that Jesus claimed to be God.
Now, you have some deep theological issue with the "Trinity" teaching.... obviously.
Well, set that aside for a moment, and just read what im showing you.

So, consider that Paul said that Jesus is God. He defined Him as "GOD manifested IN.....THE......Flesh".

And here it is even more clearly..

When Thomas, one of the original 12 apostles, saw Jesus after Jesus rose from the Dead.....Thomas kneeled before Jesus, and said....."my Lord and MY GOD"..

Notice. "MY GOD".... not just Lord.

Now, what did Jesus do?
Pay attention Reader.....>Jesus didn't correct Him.
 
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keithr

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Your argument is not based in logic or regarding common sense.
My reasoning is based on the word of God, i.e. the Bible, and I consider myself a very logical thinking person (my brother used to call me Spock!)

Listen, God judges Christ Rejectors, after they DIE.
God will leave the judgement to Jesus, and everyone will be judged after they die. "For we will all stand before the judgment seat of Christ" (Rom 14:10).

Would he judge them after they die, if they had a 2nd Chance to receive Christ after they die?
Yes, they will be judged after they have had a second, or first, chance to believe Jesus. Millions of people have lived and died never having heard of Jesus, and others have heard of him but have not believed. That is what the promised Millennial age is for. To summarise, with Jesus having redeemed all of mankind, the promise is of a Millennial age, a period of a thousand years during which all of mankind will be resurrected and Christ will rule, guiding, teaching and disciplining people until they are restored back to perfection. It will be a long, slow, easy path, taking up to 1,000 years. This Millennial age will become their trial (or judgement day - a 'day' of a thousand years). This trial will be more favourable than the trial which Adam first underwent, because during this time Satan will be bound up (so they will be without his corrupting and deceiving influences), everyone will have full knowledge of God and Jesus, and all will have benefited from the experience of the effects of sin (this is why God has always permitted evil).

At the end of the Millennial age Satan will be freed for a short time, and will once again try and turn mankind away from God. Those who fail this final trial, and side with Satan, will perish. This is the second death from which there is no resurrection, it is an eternal death. Those found worthy will then have eternal life. Satan will be destroyed and there will be no more death, or pain, or unhappiness.

(Heb 2:14) that through death he [Jesus] might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
(Rev 20:7) And after the thousand years, Satan will be released from his prison,
(Rev 20:10) The devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur,
After that...
(Rev 20:11) I saw a great white throne, and him who sat on it,
(Rev 20:12) I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and they opened books. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged out of the things which were written in the books, according to their works.
(Rev 20:15) If anyone was not found written in the book of life, he was cast into the lake of fire.
(Rev 20:14) This is the second death, the lake of fire.

Not even the Devil would be stupid enough to stand before Holy God at the White Throne Judgment and say....>>"you know, i think i'll just go ahead and choose to burn in the lake of fire".
I think Satan has already been judged and his sentence awaits him. His only hope of keeping his life is to thwart God's plans, but God has told us in His word that Satan will fail, and he will perish (see above Bible verses).

Would Christ have sent out the Apostles and the Evangelists and the Soul winners, as "go into all the world and preach the Gospel".....if all sinners could enjoy their sin on earth till they die, knowing that they are going to get a 2nd chance to be "born again", after they die?
Yes he would, because he is not trying to convert the whole world, he is selecting those who he has foreordained to become members of the body of Christ:

"... to those who are called according to his purpose. For whom he foreknew, he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. Whom he predestined, those he also called" (Romans 8:28-30).

Selecting the members of the body of Christ is what the Gospel age is all about. It is "the acceptable year of the Lord" (Luke 4:19), the acceptable time for sacrifices. Not all are called.

Listen, we are to be born again on Earth, to solve an ETERNAL PROBLEM that takes place after we DIE.
This problem is....where do you end up, after you die, for all eternity. ????
Heaven or earth, or else you will perish (second death).

Christ died on EARTH. And you will be born again on EARTH, or you never will be at all.
The resurrection is a new birth, weather it be a birth as a spirit being to live eternally in heaven, or a birth as a human again to live eternally on the earth. Nobody has been born again yet. Paul said, "For this we tell you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will in no way precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with God’s trumpet. The dead in Christ will rise first, then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air. So we will be with the Lord forever" (1Th 4:15-17). This is what is refered to as the rapture, and it clearly has not yet taken place, so all dead Christians are still dead, as are everyone else that has died.

The reason a born again Christian meets God after they Die as their FATHER, is because they were born again on EARTH as God's SON.
You're close, just one word out! it's because they were begotten on earth, just as Jesus was. Note that Paul preaching to his fellow Jews said of Jesus:

(Act 13:30) But God raised him from the dead:
(Act 13:32) And we declare unto you glad tidings, how that the promise which was made unto the fathers,
(Act 13:33) God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.

At Jesus' baptism there was "a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased" (Mat 3:17), that was the day that Jesus was begotten by God.

If you are not born again on Earth, you will meet God as your eternal JUDGE...... John 3:36 and He will Judge you for not being born again, which means you died a CHRIST REJECTOR.
As I quoted above all Christians will "stand before the judgment seat of Christ" (Romans 14:10), whether or not they are begotten again, or born again (although by definition if they are Christians then they have been begotten again). God does not judge you for "not being born again" - where's the logic and common sense in that! And why do born again Christians also "stand before the judgment seat of Christ"? And many die never having heard the Gospel and not having learned about Jesus, but that doesn't make them Christ rejectors.

Listen.. today, while you were sleeping, thousands of unbelievers, the non born gain, died and hit hell like a bullet.
What are they doing right now?
Well thousands may have died, but as to what they are doing -
(Ecc 9:5) the dead know not any thing
(Ecc 9:10) there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.

So in death there is only unconsciousness, which is why Jesus refers to those that have died as though they are sleeping, as in John 11:11 - he said to them, “Our friend, Lazarus, has fallen asleep, but I am going so that I may awake him out of sleep.”