The Seed of your Righteousness

[keithr]

I have read, and seen you disregard and toss aside Bible references given to you and single out only the ones that support what you want to believe.

Just out of interest, I've gone back and tried counting how many verses of the Bible user 'Behold' and I have referenced and quoted up to the point of your reply. I've tried to be accurate, but please check for yourself too.

I think 'Behold' had referenced about 10 Bible verses (although most of those he didn't actually give a reference for, I had to search it out myself). Of those 10 I think I've directly commented on 9 of those verses in my replies.

I had referenced and quoted about 130 verses in my discusson with 'Behold'. He has commented on none of those verses as far as I can see. So would you say that he has "tossed aside" those 130 Bible references? I'm puzzled why would criticise me for supposedly disregarding one of the ten verses that 'Behold' had quoted, and yet you have not criticised 'Behold' for disregarding all 130 verses that I have quoted.

 

[marks]

If he could be transformed into a mortal man then he must have been mortal beforehand (immortal means that's it's impossible for you to die).

Did Jesus die? What is death? Or was it that Jesus offered His body in death? I think you are limiting God Incarnate according to His purpose for incarnating. "A body you have prepared for me. Lo, I come to do Thy will."

We are conceived and born, and our soul is separated from our body in death. The soul continues in it's existance, and will be judged by God.

For those who have not received new life, that is, rebirth, from God, they will go to destruction. For those who have received new life from God, they continue alive, though the body ends here in death.

Jesus, the Messenger of YHWH, has life in Himself, even as the Father has life in Himself, and though He live in a body that dies here, He does not die. He alone is immortal, so it is being joined to Christ that we receive our immortality. His Spirit in us gives us life.

Much love!

 

[Behold]

What you said was, "or worse, as you do, if you never read it, but only read bible commentaries". So you said that I never read the Bible. .

Again,
what i said is that you have read the bible, but that is not studying it.
You said you read it, and i agree.
Also, i said you read heretical commentaries., or have.... and that is why your theology is not related to Paul's.
See, when a person has Pauline Theology, understood, and learned, correctly, they dont sound like you.
They sound like me.

They talk about GRACE, and explain how to stop sinning.
THat's Paul.
So, when someone is denying the Trinity, or teaching that you can lose your salvation, or teaching that God causes Evil, or that Gay Marriage is legitimate, or that the "elect" are not the born again in the time of the gentiles....and all this nonsense,...... then they are not teaching Paul, they are opposing Paul, and when you do that, you are opposing the NT, of which he wrote most of it.

 

[Behold]

Where does it say in the Bible that only God could create the world?

It does not say in Genesis or in Colossians that "only" God Created the world.
It simply says in Genesis that God created the world, and in Colossians, it explains that its Jesus as the pre-incarnate Word who did this, and in John 1:10 it shows God, as Christ, who made the world.

So, the Bible from Old to NEW Testament is showing God and Christ to be the Same.
They are "One".
The change came, when God was born of a Virgin into a human body, and received a human's name. = Emmanuel, or "GOD WITH US".

 

[keithr]

I think of this more that God Eternal put Himself into a mortal human body for the purposes of offering it in death.

That would just be a sham though, and not satisfy God's perfect justice ("life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot", Deu 19:21). God is immortal (Paul said of God, "who alone has immortality" 1 Tim 6:16), so God could not die (who said God can do anything? He can't die!). "The wages of sin is death" (Rom 6:23), so in order to redeem Adam an exact substitute was required to die instead of Adam, and it had to be a perfect human being (as Adam was made perfect). God cannot die, so He couldn't be a substitute. None of the Angels were human, so they couldn't be a substitute. The only solution was God's solution, which was to transform a mortal spirit being into a human being, in order that it may die in Adam's place. He chose his only begotten son Jesus, for the reasons I've mentioned in previous replies in this thread.

Heb 2:9 - But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels [i.e. made human] for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

Peace be on you!

 

[keithr]

Again,
what i said is that you have read the bible, but that is not studying it.
You said you read it, and i agree.

We seem to be going round in circles here!

Also, i said you read heretical commentaries., or have.... and that is why your theology is not related to Paul's.
See, when a person has Pauline Theology, understood, and learned, correctly, they dont sound like you.
They sound like me.

Such humilty and modesty!

Paul said, "But even if we or an angel from Heaven preach a gospel to you beside what we preached to you, let him be accursed" (Gal 1:8). So please tell me which of Paul's verses that I have quoted I have not understood, and explain why. Paul said in 1 Cor 8:4-6:

"... there is no other God except one. For though there are those who are called gods, whether in Heaven or in earth (as there are many gods and many lords), but there is to us only one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and we by Him."

Please explain what he meant, if you think he meant something different from what I have said it means (which is that Paul considers that our heavenly Father alone is God, and Jesus is His only begotten son).

So, when someone is denying the Trinity, or ..... then they are not teaching Paul

Please also comment how the following writings of Paul harmonise with the Trinity:

(1Ti 2:5) For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,
(Eph 1:3) Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,
(1Co 11:3) But I would have you know that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.
(Eph 1:17) that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give to you a spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him;
(Eph 3:14) For this cause, I bow my knees to the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,

Hebrews 1:1-14:
God, who at many times and in many ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, Hath in these last days spoken to us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself made purification for our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high; Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they. For to which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son? And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him. And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire. But to the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy companions. And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thy hands: They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall become old as doth a garment; And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail. But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thy enemies thy footstool? Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall inherit salvation?

Please also consider Jesus' words in John 17:
1) Jesus said these things, and lifting up his eyes to heaven, he said, “Father, the time has come. Glorify your Son, that your Son may also glorify you;
2) even as you gave him authority over all flesh, so he will give eternal life to all whom you have given him.
3) This is eternal life, that they should know you, the only true God, and him whom you sent, Jesus Christ.
4) I glorified you on the earth. I have accomplished the work which you have given me to do.
5) Now, Father, glorify me with your own self with the glory which I had with you before the world existed.
6) I revealed your name to the people whom you have given me out of the world. They were yours, and you have given them to me. They have kept your word.
7) Now they have known that all things whatever you have given me are from you,
8) for the words which you have given me I have given to them, and they received them, and knew for sure that I came from you, and they have believed that you sent me.
9) I pray for them. I don’t pray for the world, but for those whom you have given me, for they are yours.
10) All things that are mine are yours, and yours are mine, and I am glorified in them.
11) I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, keep them through your name which you have given me, that they may be one, even as we are.
12) While I was with them in the world, I kept them in your name. Those whom you have given me I have kept. None of them is lost, except the son of destruction, that the Scripture might be fulfilled.
13) But now I come to you, and I say these things in the world, that they may have my joy made full in themselves.
14) I have given them your word. The world hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
15) I pray not that you would take them from the world, but that you would keep them from the evil one.
16) They are not of the world even as I am not of the world.
17) Sanctify them in your truth. Your word is truth.
18) As you sent me into the world, even so I have sent them into the world.
19) For their sakes I sanctify myself, that they themselves also may be sanctified in truth.
20) Not for these only do I pray, but for those also who will believe in me through their word,
21) that they may all be one; even as you, Father, are in me, and I in you, that they also may be one in us; that the world may believe that you sent me.
22) The glory which you have given me, I have given to them; that they may be one, even as we are one;
23) I in them, and you in me, that they may be perfected into one; that the world may know that you sent me, and loved them, even as you loved me.
24) Father, I desire that they also whom you have given me be with me where I am, that they may see my glory, which you have given me, for you loved me before the foundation of the world.
25) Righteous Father, the world hasn’t known you, but I knew you; and these knew that you sent me.
26) I made known to them your name, and will make it known; that the love with which you loved me may be in them, and I in them.”

 

[keithr]

It does not say in Genesis or in Colossians that "only" God Created the world.

Is English your first language? You seem to not understand it very well. You had said to me, "You ... state that Jesus Created the World, as only GOD could do this", and therefore implied that Jesus must be God if Jesus created the world. So I asked where does the Bible say that only God could create the world. Just because Jesus created the world that does not mean that he is God. You're just assuming that to be the case.

So, the Bible from Old to NEW Testament is showing God and Christ to be the Same.

No it is not!

 

[marks]

That would just be a sham though, and not satisfy God's perfect justice ("life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot", Deu 19:21). God is immortal (Paul said of God, "who alone has immortality" 1 Tim 6:16), so God could not die (who said God can do anything? He can't die!). "The wages of sin is death" (Rom 6:23), so in order to redeem Adam an exact substitute was required to die instead of Adam, and it had to be a perfect human being (as Adam was made perfect). God cannot die, so He couldn't be a substitute. None of the Angels were human, so they couldn't be a substitute. The only solution was God's solution, which was to transform a mortal spirit being into a human being, in order that it may die in Adam's place. He chose his only begotten son Jesus, for the reasons I've mentioned in previous replies in this thread.

Heb 2:9 - But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels [i.e. made human] for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

Peace be on you!

Eye for eye was justice given among men. God's law for sin is, The soul that sins shall die, Exodus 32. God is immortal and God did not die. A body you have prepared for me. God in Christ offered His body in death, so that we can join Him in death, and so satisfy the law of sin and death.

Something I don't understand what you mean here, is this:

He chose his only begotten son Jesus

Who was Jesus before He was chosen to die?

Much love!

 

[Behold]

We seem to be going round in circles here!

Such humilty and modesty!
"... there is no other God except one. For though there are those who are called gods, whether in Heaven or in earth (as there are many gods and many lords), but there is to us only one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and we by Him."

”

Well, honestly, i dont have any reason to parade about as "false modesty".
So, i dont try to sound "spiritual".
I'm just me, transparent and open., and very direct.
I have a job to do here, and i do my best.
And, when im pushing back against teaching that can harm a new believer, my effort is going to be very aggressive.
Understand, i dont deal with heresy using hugs and kisses and tender moments.
I dont apply Jesus's 2nd Commandment unto a Heretic.
Why?
Titus 3:10

See, Heresy offends God, and im not to even give the impressing that i can stand it.
And thats pretty easy to do, because i can't stand it.
Heresy offends the Holy Spirit, and the Holy Spirit is in me, and He is offended by it.

Now lets look at your verse.... this part".... """" 1.) but there is to us only one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in Him; and
2.) one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and we by Him."""""

Your verse is explaining that both are ONE.
Didnt you realize this?

1.) "God , of whom are all things""

2.) "Jesus, (God manifested in the Flesh) though whom are all things"..

Thats your verse, and you seem to have not yet realized that you are proving my point.
Realize it.
Your verse is defining them as both OF the same thing, doing the same, and that is because they ARE the Same.

Such as....."let us make man in OUR Image".. That is the same thing, keithr.

"Our" is God the Principal Father, and Jesus the Principal WORD, who are ONE IMAGE.

 

[keithr]

Now lets look at your verse.... this part".... """" 1.) but there is to us only one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in Him; and
2.) one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and we by Him."""""

Your verse is explaining that both are ONE.
Didnt you realize this?

No, I didn't realise that. When it says "there is to us only one God, the Father" I understand that to mean that the Father alone is God. It's not a difficult to understand verse.

1.) "God , of whom are all things""

Orignally only God existed, so everything in existence exists because of God. God designed the whole universe and the world that we live in. He designed all living beings. All things are of God. Again, fairly easy to understand.

2.) "Jesus, (God manifested in the Flesh) though whom are all things"..

Thats your verse, and you seem to have not yet realized that you are proving my point.

I don't want to take credit for any verses of the Bible. That's not my verse, it was written by the apostle Paul.

That verse does not prove that Jesus is God! It is just confirming what Paul wrote in Colossians 1, who having said "We give thanks to the God and the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ" (Col 1:3, YLT) goes on to explain that God's son Jesus created all things in the heavens and on the earth, things visible and things invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers (meaning he created all the angels, including Satan, as well as us); "all things have been created through him, and for him" (verse 16). Again, it's quite easy to understand. But you seem to continually be ignoring the plain truth of what Paul, and the rest of the Bible, teaches.

You are also ignoring the many other verses that I quoted that are contrary to your claim that Jesus is God, such as Paul explaining that God said to Jesus "Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy companions" (Heb 1:9), and "Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thy hands" (v. 10). Take note of that verse. God said to Jesus, to paraphrase, "You Jesus have created the world and the universe".

Your verse is defining them as both OF the same thing, doing the same, and that is because they ARE the Same.

I have presented a lot of verses that are contrary to that, which you have ignored, and there are more that I can quote too. Such as Jesus saying "If you loved me, you would have rejoiced, because I said ‘I am going to my Father;’ for the Father is greater than I" (John 14:28), and "Then I said, ‘Behold, I have come (in the scroll of the book it is written of me) to do your will, O God.’” (Heb 10:7).

But you seemed to be blinded by the doctrine of devils and determined to hold onto them.

"Our" is God the Principal Father, and Jesus the Principal WORD, who are ONE IMAGE.

That's just nonsense!

I think it's time for some background on the Trinity, which I'll post in another reply.

 

[keithr]

Background information on the Trinity

The doctrine of the Trinity is a false doctrine that neither Jesus nor God taught. It is an error that did not begin to be elaborated and formulated until the beginning of the fourth century AD. The following is a quote from the conclusion of The Church of the First Three Centuries, written by Alvan Lamson, published by Walker Fuller and Company, 1865, Boston, page 396:
“...The modern doctrine of the trinity is not found in any document or relic belonging to the Church of the first three centuries. Letters, art, usage theology, worship, creed, hymn, chant, doxology, ascription, commemorative rite and festive observance, so far as any remains or any record of them are preserved, coming down from early times, are, as regards this doctrine, an absolute blank. They testify, as far as they testify at all, to the supremacy of the Father, the only true God; and to the inferior and derived nature of the son. There is nowhere among these remains a co-equal trinity. The cross is there; Christ is there as the good shepherd, the Father’s hand placing a crown, or a victor’s wreath, on his head; but no undivided three, co-equal, infinite, self existent, and eternal. This was a conception to which the age had not arrived. It was of later origin.”

The following is a quote from The New Catholic Encyclopaedia, 1967, s.v. “Trinity, Holy”:

“...There is recognition on the part of historians of dogma and systematic theologians that when one does speak of an unqualified Trinitarianism, one has moved from the period of Christian origins, say the last quadrant of the fourth century. It was only then that what might be called the definitive Trinitarian dogma “One God In Three Persons” became thoroughly assimilated into Christian life and thought. .... The dogmatic formula “One God In Three Persons” was the product of three centuries of doctrinal development.”

In the book A Statement of Reasons, Andrews Norton says of the Trinity, “We can trace the history of this doctrine, and discover its source, not in the Christian revelation, but in the Platonic philosophy . . . The Trinity is not a doctrine of Christ and his Apostles, but a fiction of the school of the later Platonists.”

God’s chosen people, the Israelites, were surrounded by nations that believed in multiple gods. That is why the Old Testament has many warnings to avoid other gods and to worship only the one true God. However, as the Gospel spread across Europe and Asia, the new convert’s pagan beliefs began to be intermixed with the true word of God. Those pagan religions had many gods, but there were often three “head gods” that were said to “agree in one”, e.g.

Greek Trinity: Zeus, Athena and Apollo
Roman Trinity: Jupiter, Mercury and Venus
Babylonian Trinity: Venus, The Moon and The Sun
Hindu Trinity: Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva

When these pagan beliefs were mixed with the word of God, the truth was corrupted and errors and confusion were introduced, some of which became very misleading. The Trinity doctrine is a perfect example. This ridiculous doctrine would have us believe that God is either three beings all sharing only one body, or one being with three bodies. Trinitarians don’t know which of the creedal statements to take – some say one and some say the other. It also seems strange that only two of these three beings have names, which are the Father, called Yahweh (or Jehovah), and the Son, called Yeshua (or Jesus). Why doesn’t the Holy Spirit have a name if it is a co-equal being?

The Apostle Paul warned of the doctrinal errors that would develop and which were even developing in his day, during the first century AD, e.g. 2 Timothy 1:13-15 (REB), “Hold to the outline of sound teaching which you heard from me, living by the faith and love which are ours in Christ Jesus. Keep safe the treasure put into our charge, with the help of the Holy Sprit dwelling within us. As you are aware, everyone in the province of Asia deserted me, including Phygelus and Hermogenes”, 2 Timothy 2:15-18 (REB), “… keep strictly to the true gospel, avoiding empty and irreligious chatter; those who indulge in it will stray farther and farther into godless ways, and the infection of their teaching will spread like gangrene. Such are Hymenaeus and Philetus; in saying that our resurrection has already taken place they are wide of the truth and undermine people’s faith”, and Romans 16:17,18 “Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.”

However, Church scholars have continued to debate and come up with alternative theories about who Jesus was right up to our day, with recent theories even suggesting that the New Testament’s statements about Jesus are largely mythical and not literal. They think that phrases like “raised from the dead” are not to be taken literally! (Jesus’ statement in Matt 22:29 springs to mind, “Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God”!)

It’s said that the Vatican has a library full of studies of the Trinity written by many bishops over the centuries, and that they all come to the same conclusion, which is that “it’s a mystery”! Such is the confusion of the false doctrine that nobody can fully understand it, and even if anyone thinks they understand it, it’s still not the truth! Jesus prayed to God for the church, saying “Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth” (John 17:17), and the doctrine of the Trinity is not part of God’s word.

(To be continued.)

 

[keithr]

Background information on the Trinity (continued)

Note that the writings of the apostle Paul contain no support for the Trinity, and he claimed to have received the gospel direct from Jesus: “I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you by the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel - which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned! As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned! Am I now trying to win the approval of men, or of God? Or am I trying to please men? If I were still trying to please men, I would not be a servant of Christ. I want you to know, brothers, that the gospel I preached is not something that man made up. I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it; rather, I received it by revelation from Jesus Christ” (Gal 1:6-12, NIV).

However, Paul’s words were not heeded. The Council of Nicaea in 325 AD declared that God and Jesus were a duality. For many years, there had been much opposition on Biblical grounds to the developing idea that Jesus was God. To try to solve the dispute, Roman emperor Constantine summoned all bishops to Nicaea. About 300, a fraction of the total number of bishops, actually attended the meeting, the majority coming from eastern churches.

At the time Constantine was not a Christian. Supposedly, he converted later in life, but he was not baptized until he lay dying. Regarding him, Henry Chadwick says in The Early Church: “Constantine, like his father, worshipped the Unconquered Sun; ... his conversion should not be interpreted as an inward experience of grace ... It was a military matter. His comprehension of Christian doctrine was never very clear, but he was sure that victory in battle lay in the gift of the God of the Christians.”

Despite not being a Christian and his lack of knowledge of the Scriptures, “Constantine himself presided, actively guiding the discussions, and personally proposed ... the crucial formula expressing the relation of Christ to God in the creed issued by the council, “of one substance with the Father” ... Overawed by the emperor, the bishops, with two exceptions only, signed the creed, many of them much against their inclination” (Encyclopaedia Britannica). It was only about 12 years earlier that the Romans stopped persecuting Christians, so the bishops were naturally nervous about disagreeing with and upsetting the Emperor.

After two months of furious religious debate, this pagan politician had intervened and decided in favour of those who said that Jesus was God. Why? It was certainly not because of any Biblical conviction. “Constantine had basically no understanding whatsoever of the questions that were being asked in Greek theology”, says A Short History of Christian Doctrine. What he did understand was that religious division was a threat to his empire, and he wanted to solidify his domain. None of the bishops at Nicaea promoted a Trinity, however. They decided only the nature of Jesus but not the role of the Holy Spirit. If a Trinity had been a clear Bible truth, surely they would have proposed it at the same time?

After Nicaea, debates on the subject continued for decades. Those who believed that Jesus was not equal to God even came back into favour for a time. But later Emperor Theodosius decided against them. He established the creed of the Council of Nicaea as the standard for his realm and convened the Council of Constantinople in 381 AD to clarify the formula. That council agreed to place the Holy Spirit on the same level as God and Christ. For the first time, Christendom’s Trinity began to come into focus. Yet, even after the Council of Constantinople, the Trinity did not become a widely accepted creed. Many opposed it and thus brought on themselves violent persecution. It was only in later centuries that the Trinity was formulated into set creeds.

Thus, in the fourth century AD, the apostasy (abandoning of something that one once believed in) foretold by Jesus and the apostles (e.g. 2 Thessalonians 2:3 “Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first”) came into full bloom. The development of the doctrine of the Trinity was just one evidence of this.

 

[keithr]

Eye for eye was justice given among men. God's law for sin is, The soul that sins shall die, Exodus 32. God is immortal and God did not die. A body you have prepared for me. God in Christ offered His body in death, so that we can join Him in death, and so satisfy the law of sin and death.

Yes God's punishment for sin is death, but the point I was trying to make is that God's perfect justice is an equal punishment is required, so if someone removes your tooth the just punishment would be to remove his tooth too. Therefore the perfectly just thing required to redeem Adam was an equal sacrifice. The punishment was death of a perfect man (Adam), so the just payment to redeem Adam's right to life was the death of another perfect man.

As you referred to, God prepared a human body for Jesus - "Therefore when he comes into the world, he says, “Sacrifice and offering you didn’t desire, but you prepared a body for me”" (Heb 10:5). And so Jesus became a perfect man so that he might become that just redemption payment. "But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man" (Heb 2:9).

Something I don't understand what you mean here, is this:

He chose his only begotten son Jesus

Who was Jesus before He was chosen to die?

He was God's only begotton son! He always has been.

 

[keithr]

Did Jesus die?

Yes, most definitely. Jesus confirmed it in Rev 1:18, "I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore".

What is death?

The Bible tells us that those who are dead are unconscious - "there is no work or planning or knowledge or wisdom in Sheol, where you are going" (Ecc 9:10). Similarly, Psalm 146:4 says, "His breath goes forth; he returns to the earth; in that very day his thoughts perish". Jesus also described death like a deep dreamless sleep - "[Jesus] said to them, “Our friend, Lazarus, has fallen asleep, but I am going so that I may awake him out of sleep.” Now Jesus had spoken of his death" (Joh 11:11,13).

For those who have not received new life, that is, rebirth, from God, they will go to destruction.

If only Christians will be granted eternal life, who do Jesus and Christians rule over for 1,000 years (Rev 20:4)? Rev 20:5 tells us "The rest of the dead didn’t live until the thousand years were finished", i.e. although they will be alive during the 1,000 years, living on the earth, they would not have eternal life until the 1,000 years were over and they are then judged whether or not they are worthy to have eternal life - "If anyone was not found written in the book of life, he was cast into the lake of fire" (Rev 20:15), those who are written in the book of life will be granted eternal life.

 

[keithr]

I think I have shown that the Trinity doctrine was not part of the Gospel that Paul preached, and was not part of the doctrine of the early church. The Protestant churches were formed because they were "protesting" against the many doctrinal errors of the Roman Catholic church. They removed many errors, but unfortunately they didn't remove the Trinity. But knowing it to be an error, and not part of the original Gospel preached by Paul, we should not believe nor teach the Trinity. "But even if we or an angel from Heaven preach a gospel to you beside what we preached to you, let him be accursed" (Gal 1:8).

Jesus said, "I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God” (John 20:17). Note also John 8:41-47, when Jesus was speaking with the Pharisees:

They said to him, “We were not born of sexual immorality [they knew that Jesus' parents were not married when Mary conceived Jesus]. We have one Father, God.”
Therefore Jesus said to them, “If God were your father, you would love me, for I came out and have come from God. For I haven’t come of myself, but he sent me.
Why don’t you understand my speech? Because you can’t hear my word.
You are of your father, the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and doesn’t stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks on his own; for he is a liar, and the father of lies.
But because I tell the truth, you don’t believe me.
Which of you convicts me of sin? If I tell the truth, why do you not believe me?
He who is of God hears the words of God. For this cause you don’t hear, because you are not of God.”​

So if we don't believe what Jesus has told us, and the Gospel that Paul taught which does not contain and is is contrary to the Trinity doctrine, then according to Jesus we would be "of your father, the devil" like the Pharisees, instead prefering to believe the lies of the master liar - Satan. We need to hear, and believe, the words of God - the Bible, because otherwise we would be "not of God". We don't want to be among those of whom Jesus said (Mat 7:21-23):

Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the Kingdom of Heaven; but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will tell me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, didn’t we prophesy in your name, in your name cast out demons, and in your name do many mighty works?’ Then I will tell them, ‘I never knew you. Depart from me, you who work iniquity.’​