The Seed of your Righteousness

[marks]

I see it as a whole from 14-23 and 25. I do not see 15-17 as being freed from sin.

Look at the verb tenses. God said it that way to be accurate, not to fool us.

15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I. 16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good. 17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

All this is present tense. It was past tense when Paul was talking about the Law, and how it killed him. Then he changed to present tense. You gotta ask yourself, Why?

Much love!

 

[Behold]

I've read some of your posts, and don't agree with what your take of no sin in Christ seems to be.

What Scripture doesn't mean is that what used to be sin if committed, is no longer a sin if committed; rather than we used to commit sin, but as a Christian we don't do the same things we committed as an unbeliever.

Then you didnt understand my Threads.

Listen, all believers commit works of the flesh. You committed a few against me when you accused me falsely, for example, of being a gnostic.
You never made this right, so that another work of the flesh you committed.
And denying it now will be 3.
So, just pass on that., as what you did, you did.

Now, lets get real....as your mean spirited pretense is glaring again, and its harmful to real believers who might be new to their Salvation and might find your harmful doctrine.

1. Romans 4:8, talking to the born again, Paul teaching, says that God does not charge your sin to you.

So, if no believer sinned, (works of the flesh), then that verse would not be necessary.

Yet, that verse is explaining why God does not. He is explaining that He can't charge you for what has already crucified His Son.
God can't judge Jesus for your sin, then judge you, or hold you also accountable, for your sin.
Try to see that.

So, the issue is that the born again, in this age, ...so many are taught a gospel of works after they are born again.
They are led to the Cross, they are born again, and then they are misled into the idea that they are sinners, and that they must perform to continue to have God's acceptance.

And you have something else wrong..
You have the idea that "sin" , defined as sin, is the same, no matter the context.
So, on one hand, murder is always the sin of murder.
That is a commandment, tho shall not murder, or as many bible write it....."kill".

So, the deed is always the same deed, charismaticlady, but the perception that God has of a believer committing it, vs, an unbeliever committing is, is where you are lost and can't grab the Light yet.

Its like this.... The judgement of the commandments falls to the Unbeliever. While the Gift of God Grace, recused the Born again from this judgement.

You for some reason just can't accept that if you are 'In Christ", and you murder, then that is a "work of the Flesh", because the dominion of Grace has reevaluated it, according to its dominion., and Jesus has paid for it.
Sure, you'll go to jail, as that is how the law plays out in society, but when you die, you will not judged in eternity for that sin, because all your sin has been Judged on Earth, already. That is the Cross of Christ.

So, one of the things that is theological error, is apply the "dominion of the Law" across the board,.... and you can't do that and be theologically correct or doctrinally correct.
You can't apply the LAW's Dominion, to the born again who are Under the dominion of Grace.

 

[Behold]

This is something I go over with my wife frequently.

9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you.

IF SO BE . . . that you are faithful . . . that you don't sin . . . that you think well of yourself . . . that others think well of you . . . that . . . NO!!!!!!!

IF SO BE . . . that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Final answer!!



Much love!

Salvation is God bringing us back to His Spiritual Family.
That's all it is.......
Its to understand that OUR SIN was keeping us out of God's Family, so, God came here, became our sin, and we were given God's Righteousness.

That resolved the only issue that was keeping us out of Heaven. = The SIN Issue.

Sin is resolved by Jesus, and we are "Sonship" resolved by "The Gift of Righteousness."

Here i am teaching the born again on so many Forums regarding how to see themselves as God seems them.

If i am not on them, then im to preach the Gospel.......and all that is, is to show the lost that God has reconciled them ALREADY.
They dont have to live right, or clean up, or take a year and try to be good person....first.
No.
God has reconciled them ALREADY.....>He has created their reconciliation to Himself, using the Blood of His Son., and all im to do, is tell them.....come.......COME AND RECEIVE THE RECONCILIATION......ITS A FREE GIFT FROM GOD. "the GIFT of SALVATION".."The GIFT of Righteousness".
Come and receive this LOVE GIFT FROM GOD that Jesus the Son died to provide for you for FREE.
Let go of your unbelief.......Believe and RECEIVE and be BORN AGAIN.


You dont hear it preached that way much for many years, and yet, that is the Gospel.

 

[marks]

Actually what you posted was Paul talking about the wrong believing Paul...the one that didn't understand yet how to have "always gives me the Victory".
He goes on to teach what he came to understand, and in that right believing, he later, and now will teach you, that you can always have Victory, that Jesus will always give you the victory, once you come to the place of Right Believing.

Paul was showing the effect of his behavior, when he was trying to strive against sin by will, and this put him under the Law's dominion.

Later, when he stopped striving and began to rest in right understanding regarding God's Grace, He was delivered from the dominion of the law and into the place of constant VICTORY..

I see this in the renewing of the mind. Here in Romans 7 Paul explains what's going on, and why we have a problem, and how this doesn't have to be a problem if we understand correctly.

20 But ye have not so learned Christ; 21 if so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus: 22 that ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; 23 and be renewed in the spirit of your mind; 24 and that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

I think that the way the lusts of the old man are deceiptful is that we can think those desires are ours. But coming to understand that even though we may feel and think certain things, that this is just the echo of who we were, and to know that it is no longer me that sins, but the sin that lives in me, then I can understand more readily how I have been freed completely from those desires.

Much love!

 

[marks]

You for some reason just can't accept that if you are 'In Christ", and you murder, then that is a "work of the Flesh", because the dominion of Grace has reevaluated it, according to its dominion., and Jesus has paid for it.
Sure, you'll go to jail, as that is how the law plays out in society, but when you die, you will not judged in eternity for that sin, because all your sin has been Judged on Earth, already. That is the Cross of Christ.

And, you may be disciplined by God, not punishment, but training. Yet still not guilty!

Much love!

 

[marks]

Salvation is God bringing us back to His Spiritual Family.
That's all it is.......
Its to understand that OUR SIN was keeping us out of God's Family, so, God came here, became our sin, and we were given God's Righteousness.

That resolved the only issue that was keeping us out of Heaven. = The SIN Issue.

Sin is resolved by Jesus, and we are "Sonship" resolved by "The Gift of Righteousness."

Here i am teaching the born again on so many Forums regarding how to see themselves as God seems them.

If i am not on them, then im to preach the Gospel.......and all that is, is to show the lost that God has reconciled them ALREADY.
They dont have to live right, or clean up, or take a year and try to be good person....first.
No.
God has reconciled them ALREADY.....>He has created their reconciliation to Himself, using the Blood of His Son., and all im to do, is tell them.....come.......COME AND RECEIVE THE RECONCILIATION......ITS A FREE GIFT FROM GOD. "the GIFT of SALVATION".."The GIFT of Righteousness".
Come and receive this LOVE GIFT FROM GOD that Jesus the Son died to provide for you for FREE.
Let go of your unbelief.......Believe and RECEIVE and be BORN AGAIN.


You dont hear it preached that way much for many years, and yet, that is the Gospel.

All that remains is that we receive the reconciliation.

I don't know if I ever heard it taught that way for many many years. Andrew Farley teaches this. Michael Reeves teaches this. For myself, one day I realized that I wasn't believing what I read, it sounded too good! Well, it IS really really good!

Much love!

 

[CharismaticLady]

Look at the verb tenses. God said it that way to be accurate, not to fool us.

15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I. 16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good. 17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

All this is present tense. It was past tense when Paul was talking about the Law, and how it killed him. Then he changed to present tense. You gotta ask yourself, Why?

Much love!

Don't let the present tense fool you.* It is merely a style of teaching to relate to the listener. We all must come to the realization before we can truly repent that we are helpless to be righteous. It is called integrity of heart. At least, that is what a pastor said, that changed my approach about myself, and a couple months later, I was born again and the burden of sinful desires was physically lifted from me, and I was filled with His Spirit. You know my story...

* Look at verse 9 if you want to stay with present tense as being Paul's current condition. For verse 9 to be about him he would have to be over 1300 years old, to be there not only when Moses received the law, but even before that.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Then you didnt understand my Threads.

Listen, all believers commit works of the flesh. You committed a few against me when you accused me falsely, for example, of being a gnostic.
You never made this right, so that another work of the flesh you committed.
And denying it now will be 3.
So, just pass on that., as what you did, you did.

Now, lets get real....as your mean spirited pretense is glaring again, and its harmful to real believers who might be new to their Salvation and might find your harmful doctrine.

1. Romans 4:8, talking to the born again, Paul teaching, says that God does not charge your sin to you.

So, if no believer sinned, (works of the flesh), then that verse would not be necessary.

Yet, that verse is explaining why God does not. He is explaining that He can't charge you for what has already crucified His Son.
God can't judge Jesus for your sin, then judge you, or hold you also accountable, for your sin.
Try to see that.

So, the issue is that the born again, in this age, ...so many are taught a gospel of works after they are born again.
They are led to the Cross, they are born again, and then they are misled into the idea that they are sinners, and that they must perform to continue to have God's acceptance.

And you have something else wrong..
You have the idea that "sin" , defined as sin, is the same, no matter the context.
So, on one hand, murder is always the sin of murder.
That is a commandment, tho shall not murder, or as many bible write it....."kill".

So, the deed is always the same deed, charismaticlady, but the perception that God has of a believer committing it, vs, an unbeliever committing is, is where you are lost and can't grab the Light yet.

Its like this.... The judgement of the commandments falls to the Unbeliever. While the Gift of God Grace, recused the Born again from this judgement.

You for some reason just can't accept that if you are 'In Christ", and you murder, then that is a "work of the Flesh", because the dominion of Grace has reevaluated it, according to its dominion., and Jesus has paid for it.
Sure, you'll go to jail, as that is how the law plays out in society, but when you die, you will not judged in eternity for that sin, because all your sin has been Judged on Earth, already. That is the Cross of Christ.

So, one of the things that is theological error, is apply the "dominion of the Law" across the board,.... and you can't do that and be theologically correct or doctrinally correct.
You can't apply the LAW's Dominion, to the born again who are Under the dominion of Grace.

Which do you believe of these two.

Sin if committed, is no longer a sin if committed. For instance, murder, is not charged to us if we willfully murder someone.

Or,

We used to commit sin, but as a Christian we don't do the same things we committed as an unbeliever. We would NEVER murder someone.

 

[marks]

Don't let the present tense fool you.* It is merely a style of teaching to relate to the listener. We all must come to the realization before we can truly repent that we are helpless to be righteous. It is called integrity of heart. At least, that is what a pastor said, that changed my approach about myself, and a couple months later, I was born again and the burden of sinful desires was physically lifted from me, and I was filled with His Spirit. You know my story...

* Look at verse 9 if you want to stay with present tense as being Paul's current condition. For verse 9 to be about him he would have to be over 1300 years old, to be there not only when Moses received the law, but even before that.

You remove the meaning of the passage with the wave of your hand.

It SAYS present tense, but it DOESN'T MEAN present tense. NO. It means what it says.

You seem to have a difficulty with the idea that "when the commandment came" that this means when the Law was given at Horeb. But that's not what he said, and just makes it sound ridiculous.

9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.

So here's a question . . . is Paul speaking of himself? OR someone else? Because he says himself. Do you think this also doesn't mean what it says?

When the commandment came "to ____________ ", you can fill in that blank with Moses, or me. To my thinking, one fits MUCH better than the other.

He's talking about himself. I was alive, I died, when the commandment came . . . to someone else? No, to Paul.

Much love!

 

[CharismaticLady]

You remove the meaning of the passage with the wave of your hand.

It SAYS present tense, but it DOESN'T MEAN present tense. NO. It means what it says.

You seem to have a difficulty with the idea that "when the commandment came" that this means when the Law was given at Horeb. But that's not what he said, and just makes it sound ridiculous.

9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.

So here's a question . . . is Paul speaking of himself? OR someone else? Because he says himself. Do you think this also doesn't mean what it says?

When the commandment came "to ____________ ", you can fill in that blank with Moses, or me. To my thinking, one fits MUCH better than the other.

He's talking about himself. I was alive, I died, when the commandment came . . . to someone else? No, to Paul.

Much love!

Personally, I do NOT believe that Paul was over 1300 years old when he wrote this, but that's just me.

Look at Romans 8:2 Who was freed from sin?

 

[marks]

Personally, I do NOT believe that Paul was over 1300 years old when he wrote this, but that's just me.

Look at Romans 8:2 Who was freed from sin?

You are skipping my point. Why? You skip a lot of my questions, but continue to ask yours.

This . . . you continue to try to make it look ridiculous. It was Paul who wrote in the present tense, not as some supposed "Literary devise", that's another way of saying Paul wrote falsehoods.

Paul received the Law as a young child, if he was a normal Jewish boy. And then he found he couldn't control his coveteousness. But when he was reborn, than it was no longer him, because he had become a new creation.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Look at Romans 8:2 Who was freed from sin?

Paul.

How? What was the method?

 

[2nd Timothy Group]

Paul was freed from sin and death? If this is True, then the same must apply to Peter. However, both died physical deaths. Paul apologized to the High Priest, quoting OT Law, thus he sinned. Peter led Barnabas and many others astray, thus they both sinned.

What Paul was freed from, and we have to post the [entire] scripture, is this . . . Paul was freed from the LAW of sin and death. This is the Curse of Adam and Eve. And how does this happen? By one's own power and accord? Nope. It is done by the Holy Operation of God.

Colossians 2:10-15 KJV - 10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: 11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: 12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with [him] through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. 13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; 14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; 15 [And] having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it."

The body of the sins of the flesh is the Curse that Adam and Eve brought onto us all, as per Romans 5.

The Faith of the Operation of God is the Circumcision of Christ.

The written Law was taken out of our way, the Laws that were contrary to us (as humans), for where there is no Law, there is no transgression.

Christ defeats Satan and him minions by His lifting of the Curse of Adam and Eve. Christ triumphs over Satan by lifting the Curse of Adam and Eve.

Whew . . . I've written this so many times . . . I hope that it will be acknowledged at least once . . . by someone.

 

[CharismaticLady]

You are skipping my point. Why? You skip a lot of my questions, but continue to ask yours.

This . . . you continue to try to make it look ridiculous. It was Paul who wrote in the present tense, not as some supposed "Literary devise", that's another way of saying Paul wrote falsehoods.

Paul received the Law as a young child, if he was a normal Jewish boy. And then he found he couldn't control his coveteousness. But when he was reborn, than it was no longer him, because he had become a new creation.

Much love!

Okay, but didn't you say that you thought Romans 7:15-17 was Paul as a Christian, even though Romans 8:2 says what made him free from sin? The Spirit of Christ, which 7:15-17 doesn't say he had.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Paul.

How? What was the method?

Repentance Acts 2:38. He received the Holy Spirit which wasn't provided by keeping the Ten Commandments.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Be back later. I've got chores galore!

 

[marks]

Paul was freed from sin and death?

Rather, from the Law of Sin and Death.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Okay, but didn't you say that you thought Romans 7:15-17 was Paul as a Christian, even though Romans 8:2 says what made him free from sin? The Spirit of Christ, which 7:15-17 doesn't say he had.

Paul received the Law, and it increased sin within him. Then he came to Christ and was reborn, a new creation, and he left sin behind in the old man.

Much love!

 

[CharismaticLady]

Paul received the Law, and it increased sin within him. Then he came to Christ and was reborn, a new creation, and he left sin behind in the old man.

Much love!

Right, so can you see that 15-17 still has sin current, and not behind?

15 For what I am doing, I do not understand. For what I will to do, that I do not practice; but what I hate, that I do. 16 If, then, I do what I will not to do, I agree with the law that it is good. 17 But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.

 

[marks]

Right, so can you see that 15-17 still has sin current, and not behind?

15 For what I am doing, I do not understand. For what I will to do, that I do not practice; but what I hate, that I do. 16 If, then, I do what I will not to do, I agree with the law that it is good. 17 But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.

But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.