I'm not entirely clear on how I, as a Postrib, feel Jesus comes back with his saints, let me speculate a little. We have these 2 important passages regarding Jesus' 2nd Coming with and for his Church. Dad raised an important question in my mind: does Christ come with or for his Church, or both?
My initial thought here is that when we look at these 2 passages together, it appears that Christ comes with the departed saints and for Christians who are still alive on earth. What do you think?...
Matt 24.30 “Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory. 31 And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other."
1 Thes 4.14 For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. 15 According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.
It really appears to me that there are 2 stages here. 1st, the sign of the Son of Man appears in heaven. That is when he "bring with him those who have fallen asleep in him." 2nd, Jesus gathers his elect from the four winds, which sounds very much like a gathering to the clouds. And indeed Paul confirms that it is a gathering to the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.
So we have a 2 step process, Christ appearing with his departed saints, and then his gathering those still alive to the clouds. However, we are told in Acts 1 that he is coming again in the same way he left. That means the appearance of the Son of Man in the clouds must be followed by his appearance on earth. In Zechariah 14, we read that it will be on the Mt. of Olives, a literal place on earth.
Zech 14.4 On that day his feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, east of Jerusalem, and the Mount of Olives will be split in two from east to west, forming a great valley, with half of the mountain moving north and half moving south.
2 Sam 15 tells the story how David, who suffered a conspiracy in Jerusalem, left the city and went up on the Mt. of Olives. Interestingly, David expresses hope that God will allow him to return later, to visit Jerusalem again and see the place where the ark is to be. This place, that Jesus is returning to, will show the completion of his promise to Israel, to return to the very people who have rejected him.
Israel have not rejected Christ because Israel is not "the Jews" but Israel = Jews and Gentiles who are in Christ through faith in Christ. How can those who are in Christ have rejected Christ?
Jerusalem belongs to God and if Zechariah 14 has not happened yet, then it means that Christ is going to destroy the nations there because God has chosen to destroy the nations there, when they come against Jerusalem. Not anything to do with "the Jews" but everything to do with God's holy name.
Revelation 17
14 These (10 kings who are reigning with the beast) will make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb will overcome them.
For He is Lord of lords and King of kings. And
those with Him are the called and elect and faithful ones.
Revelation 19
16 And He has on His garment, and on His thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS.
14 And
the armies in Heaven followed Him on white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
8 And to her (the wife of Christ) was
granted that she should be
arrayed in fine linen, clean and white. For the fine linen is the righteousness of the saints.
Zechariah 14
5 And you shall flee to the valley of My mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach to Azal. And you shall flee as you fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah.
And the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with you.
In Revelation 21 the bride, the Lamb's wife is coming down from God out of heaven. Another reason why it's a fallacy to believe that the thousand years (though literal) and the NHNE do not commence at the same time.
It's only logical that they cannot come down before they were taken up.
Revelation 11
11 And after three days and a half, a spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood on their feet. And great fear fell on those seeing them.
12
And they heard a great voice from Heaven saying to them, Come up here. And they went up to Heaven in a cloud, and their enemies watched them.
13 And
in that hour a great earthquake occurred, and the tenth part of the city fell. And seven thousand names of men were slain in the earthquake. And the rest were frightened and gave glory to the God of Heaven.
Zechariah 14
4 And His feet shall stand in that day on the Mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east,
and the Mount of Olives shall divide from its middle, from the east and to the west, a very great valley. And half of the mountain shall move toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
5 And you shall flee to the valley of My mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach to Azal. And you shall flee as you fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah.
And the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with you.
12 And this shall be the plague with which the LORD will strike all the peoples who have fought against Jerusalem. Their flesh shall rot while they stand on their feet, and their eyes shall rot in their sockets. And their tongue shall rot in their mouth.
15 And so shall be the plague of the horse, the mule, the camel, and the ass, and of all the beasts which shall be in these tents,
like this plague.
It's called
a plague. The Revelation talks about the seven last plagues. This is the seventh plague:
Revelation 16
17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air. And a great voice came out of the temple of Heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done!
18 And voices and thunders and lightnings occurred.
And there was a great earthquake, such as has not been since men were on the earth, so mighty and so great an earthquake.
19 And
the great city came to be into three parts, and
the cities of the nations fell. And great Babylon was remembered before God, to give to her the cup of the wine of the anger of His wrath.
20 And every island fled away, and mountains were not found.
21 And a great hail, as the size of a talent, came down out of the heaven on men. And men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague of it was exceedingly great.
Zechariah 12
2 Behold, I will make Jerusalem a cup of trembling to all the peoples all around, and it shall also be against Judah in the siege against Jerusalem.
3 And
in that day I will make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all peoples. All who lift it shall be slashed, and all the nations of the earth will be gathered against it.
9 And it shall be in that day I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.
10 And I will pour on the house of David, and on the people of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of prayers.
And they shall look on Me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for Him, as one mourns for his only son, and shall be bitter over Him, as the bitterness over the first-born.
11 In that day shall be a great mourning in Jerusalem,
like the mourning of Hadad-rimmon in the valley of Megiddo.
Armageddon (Mount Meggido) comes to mind. The battle is not at the valley of Megiddo. The valley of Megiddo and Mount Megiddo (Har Megiddo or "Armageddon") is a symbol for the final battle, which is decisive, like the battle in the valley of Megiddo which brought about the mourning of Hadad-rimmon.