The soon coming rapture?

[ewq1938]

The seals have not been opened.

Sure they have been. The fact that Christ was not at first found to open the seals means he wasn't in heaven and the only time he wasn't in heaven was the first coming. Clearly he ascended and then was found and opened the seals. Being described as a slain lamb is also a clue to when the opening of the seals took place.

The pre tribulation has not happened. The wrath of God has not begun. No trumpets have been blown. I could go on and on.

None of that is evidence. We are definitely in one of the trumps and all seals were opened long ago.

You never properly addressed Timtoflys point about the two witnesses and to my knowledge, you have not addressed the coming of Jesus in Rev 14.

I don't read his posts.

There are too many holes in the things you are saying.

There aren't any holes.

 

[The Light]

If it's true then we all should be able to understand it, but I doubt that anyone besides you can make any sense out of what you're saying here.

Let me simplify it for you. If you think that you have replaced Israel you better study a lot more. Someone has sold you a bag with a hole in it.

 

[Timtofly]

No, I did not. The tribulation is the 70th week of Daniel. The 70th week of Daniel is the seals. The Church is gone before the seals are opened, so no I have not claimed there is no pre trib rapture. There is absolutely a pre 70th week rapture. It is only when the fullness of the Gentiles comes in that part of Israel will have it's eyes opened.

As I said, the Church is removed BEFORE the seals are opened. They are the kings and priests of Rev 5. God then turns His attention to His Chosen.
The 70th week of Daniel is about the people of Daniel and has nothing whatsoever to do with the Church.
Dan 9
24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

Part of Israel, THE SEED OF THE WOMAN, has it's eyes opened when the fullness of the Gentiles comes in.

Rom 11
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

The gathering is from heaven and earth
Mark 13
27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

and is before the wrath of God.

2 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.




No. God deals with the Church BEFORE the seals are opened. The seals are the tribulation and the time of Jacobs trouble. The seals are when God deals with Israel.
I already showed you that the 144,000 are sealed BEFORE the coming of Jesus at the 6th seal. We can prove that by the fact the 144,000 are redeemed from the earth BEFORE that the great tribulation.(which I have already showed you.)

When Jesus comes at the 6th seal the angels gather the Church from heaven and it is the 12 tribes across the earth that are raptured from the earth at the 6th seal. We can prove that by Rev 15. So the coming of Jesus at the 6th seal is the coming of Jesus in Rev 14. Who gets raptured from the earth at this time? The ones that got victory over the beast by the blood of the Lamb during the tribulation. And we know the tribulation is over at the 6th seal.

Rev 15
2 And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.

3 And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, Great and marvellous are thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true are thy ways, thou King of saints.

Those that are raptured at the second coming which occurs at the 6th seal are singing the song of Moses. They are of the 12 tribes across the earth.

They are the second harvest. The fig tree has two harvests.

God's people are not appointed to wrath. The Church is removed before the seals are opened. The twelve tribes across the earth are removed at the coming of Jesus at the 6th seal. So the 12 tribes across the earth are removed before the wrath of God.

The Seals have literally nor figuratively anything to do with the house of Jacob one iota. Sorry but you are mixing your figurative metaphors.

The 144k have no need to be sealed at all. Certainly being pulled out after the 4th Seal means they do not even go through the Trumpets at all. I think you need to go back to your chronological theories and revamp them. You don't even have Jesus and the angels on earth for the final harvest per Matthew 13.

The Second Coming, the 5th and 6th Seal can happen at any moment. The first few Seals have already been opened. Do you not see that a war that would wipe out 2 billion people will not take decades? If God lets humans use nuclear weapons in a war, 2 billion people can be wiped out in hours. Not sure why some think the Trumpets will be better than the first 4 Seals.

Those around the throne in chapter 5 have been there since the Cross and the first century. There is no proof in that chapter, they are poofed up today or the near future. You realize they have already died thousands of years ago? Unless you know they just recently died? Still not sure why people think souls are still dead stuck in the grave, since the Cross. Do you not accept Christ, the firstfruits as being the whole of the OT redeemed already enjoying Paradise? Paul said even the first century Church was already sitting in heavenly places. Sorry, but they have not waited 1992 years to get there, just recently.

Paul declared the Second Coming and rapture are the same event. There is no getting around that point. If the Second Coming is the 5th and 6th Seal, so is the rapture.

 

[Taken]

The Second Coming, the 5th and 6th Seal can happen at any moment. The first few Seals have already been opened. Do you not see that a war that would wipe out 2 billion people will not take decades? If God lets humans use nuclear weapons in a war, 2 billion people can be wiped out in hours.

Men have been antagonizing each other with tribulations for centuries.
The last days Tribulation comes down from Heaven.

 

[farouk]

Men have been antagonizing each other with tribulations for centuries.
The last days Tribulation comes down from Heaven.

@Taken Clearly the rapture is linked with the church, 1 Corinthians 11.26. It's not Israel or tribulation saints in view in 1 Corinthians 11.26....

 

[GRACE ambassador]

The 144k have no need to be sealed at all.

??? Wow, I have been Misreading these for Over Four decades???:

Rev 7:1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.
Rev 7:2 And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,
Rev 7:3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees,
till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.
Rev 7:4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and
there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of
all the tribes of the children of Israel.
???

GRACE And Peace...

 

[The Light]

The Seals have literally nor figuratively anything to do with the house of Jacob one iota. Sorry but you are mixing your figurative metaphors.

No. The seals are the 70th week of Daniel. When the fullness of the Gentiles comes in it will be like the days of Noah where Noah is in the ark 7 days before the flood. When the Lord comes for the gathering from heaven and earth at the 6th seal, it will be like the days of Lot. The seals have everything to do with the house of Jacob as part of Israel will have it's eyes opened when the fullness of the Gentiles comes in.

The 144k have no need to be sealed at all. Certainly being pulled out after the 4th Seal means they do not even go through the Trumpets at all.

They have to be sealed when they are believers. They absolutely do not go through the trumpets as that is provable in Rev 14.

I think you need to go back to your chronological theories and revamp them. You don't even have Jesus and the angels on earth for the final harvest per Matthew 13.

No need to revamp anything. The seals are opened, the beginning of sorrows happens, the great tribulation happens, Jesus returns to the clouds at the 6th seal and sends His angels to gather the elect from heaven and earth. That is the great multitude that returns to heaven for the marriage supper. The trumpets of Gods wrath happen and Jesus returns at Armageddon and then the kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord. Christ has returned to the earth and there is judgement. Then in Rev 13, 14, 15 and 16 you get another view of the seals and wrath. There is nothing to revamp. All you need is to understand what you are reading.

The Second Coming, the 5th and 6th Seal can happen at any moment. The first few Seals have already been opened.

There are no seals open. The seals are the 70th week of Daniel. When those seals are opened it's going to take a days wages for food. Just as Matt 24 tells us, there will be false Christs, wars, famines and pestilences. Seen any false Christs going forth conquering and to conquer? No. But you should be seeing wars and rumors of wars, the beginning of shortages. As for pestilences, Covid and now monkey pox to name a few. And when you see these things????
Luke 21
28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
Luke 21
36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

Do you not see that a war that would wipe out 2 billion people will not take decades? If God lets humans use nuclear weapons in a war, 2 billion people can be wiped out in hours. Not sure why some think the Trumpets will be better than the first 4 Seals.

Don't be in such a hurry. No seals are opened. The rider on the white horse will go forth conquering and to conquer. The first false Christ, who is the 7th King. There are 8 kings.

Those around the throne in chapter 5 have been there since the Cross and the first century.

No. The dead in Christ and the alive Church will have been caught up before the seals are open. What you are seeing at the 5th seal is those that are killed during the 70th week of Daniel. Also, that 5th seal is the Great Tribulation. The exact same great tribulation that you see in Rev 14.
Rev 14
13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.

Do you not accept Christ, the firstfruits as being the whole of the OT redeemed already enjoying Paradise?

I don't believe that is correct. From what I understand the dead in Christ rise first. Those Old Testament saints never had a chance to accept or reject Christ, so I don't think they will be included in the dead in Christ.

Paul said even the first century Church was already sitting in heavenly places.

With their new bodies?

Paul declared the Second Coming and rapture are the same event. There is no getting around that point. If the Second Coming is the 5th and 6th Seal, so is the rapture.

I certainly have not problem with there being "A" rapture at the 6th seal. It is the gathering from heaven and earth.
Mark 13
27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

 

[Timtofly]

??? Wow, I have been Misreading these for Over Four decades???:

Rev 7:1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.
Rev 7:2 And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,
Rev 7:3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees,
till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.
Rev 7:4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and
there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of
all the tribes of the children of Israel.
???

GRACE And Peace...

That was not my point. The Light was making that claim. If the 144k leave at the 6th Seal, why were they sealed after they left the earth?

 

[Timtofly]

No. The seals are the 70th week of Daniel. When the fullness of the Gentiles comes in it will be like the days of Noah where Noah is in the ark 7 days before the flood. When the Lord comes for the gathering from heaven and earth at the 6th seal, it will be like the days of Lot. The seals have everything to do with the house of Jacob as part of Israel will have it's eyes opened when the fullness of the Gentiles comes in.

They have to be sealed when they are believers. They absolutely do not go through the trumpets as that is provable in Rev 14.

No need to revamp anything. The seals are opened, the beginning of sorrows happens, the great tribulation happens, Jesus returns to the clouds at the 6th seal and sends His angels to gather the elect from heaven and earth. That is the great multitude that returns to heaven for the marriage supper. The trumpets of Gods wrath happen and Jesus returns at Armageddon and then the kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord. Christ has returned to the earth and there is judgement. Then in Rev 13, 14, 15 and 16 you get another view of the seals and wrath. There is nothing to revamp. All you need is to understand what you are reading.
There are no seals open. The seals are the 70th week of Daniel. When those seals are opened it's going to take a days wages for food. Just as Matt 24 tells us, there will be false Christs, wars, famines and pestilences. Seen any false Christs going forth conquering and to conquer? No. But you should be seeing wars and rumors of wars, the beginning of shortages. As for pestilences, Covid and now monkey pox to name a few. And when you see these things????
Luke 21
28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
Luke 21
36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

Don't be in such a hurry. No seals are opened. The rider on the white horse will go forth conquering and to conquer. The first false Christ, who is the 7th King. There are 8 kings.

No. The dead in Christ and the alive Church will have been caught up before the seals are open. What you are seeing at the 5th seal is those that are killed during the 70th week of Daniel. Also, that 5th seal is the Great Tribulation. The exact same great tribulation that you see in Rev 14.
Rev 14
13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.

I don't believe that is correct. From what I understand the dead in Christ rise first. Those Old Testament saints never had a chance to accept or reject Christ, so I don't think they will be included in the dead in Christ.
With their new bodies?

I certainly have not problem with there being "A" rapture at the 6th seal. It is the gathering from heaven and earth.
Mark 13
27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

It seems you want to have the Trumpets sounding at the same time the Seals are being opened. But that is not possible. The Trumpets are for Jacob. They always have been. Trumpets were used to defeat Jericho. Trumpets are the call to assembly. There is even a feast of the Trumpets. No where has the church been figuratively associated with Trumpets, other than Paul mentions a Trump of God, the voice of an archangel.

On the other hand, the Seals pertain to the church. The church is sealed by the Holy Spirit. The Lamb's book of life is the book with the 7 Seals being opened. When the Lamb's book of life is opened, names are going to be removed, and one's eternal destination will be revealed.

The Seals cannot be Jacob's 70th week. There is no time frame given by John. Time frames start after the Trumpets start sounding.

 

[GRACE ambassador]

No where has the church been figuratively associated with Trumpets, other than Paul mentions a Trump of God,

Amen! Since Paul said "last trump" (1Co_15:52), that necessitates,
at the least, ONE Previous "Trump," Correct? Which Was, for The
Body Of Christ, Of The GRACE Age:

The First Trump Was The 'Voice Of God': "Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou Me?"
Opening The Dispensation Of GRACE, and, Then, Closing This Current Age:

The Voice Of God: "Come UP Hither!" At our Great GRACE Departure...
Amen?

Please Be Very RICHLY Encouraged, Enlightened, Exhorted, And Edified In
The LORD JESUS CHRIST, And In His Word Of Truth, Rightly Divided!

GRACE And Peace! The apostle of GRACE (2 Min With The BIBLE)

FULL study:
Paul, The apostle Of GRACE (Part I)
Paul, The apostle Of GRACE (Part II)

 

[The Light]

It seems you want to have the Trumpets sounding at the same time the Seals are being opened. But that is not possible.

You are confusing me with ewq1938. I realize that the 7th seal has to be opened for the trumpets to begin sounding. So I realize that it is IMPOSSIBLE for the trumpets to be the same as the seals. Why ewq1938 can't grasp that FACT is unknown to me.

The Trumpets are for Jacob. They always have been. Trumpets were used to defeat Jericho. Trumpets are the call to assembly.

No. The seven trumpets blown by angels are for the wicked as they are the wrath of God. The 12 tribes across the earth, THE SEED OF THE WOMAN, will not be on earth during the trumpets. They will be raptured at the 6th seal. Only those in the nation of Israel that flee as instructed to a place of protection prepared for them will be on earth during the wrath of God, and unbelievers of course.

There is even a feast of the Trumpets.

Exactly. And in case you don't know, THE LAST TRUMP is blown on the Feast of Trumpets. And in case you don't know, the Feast of Trumpets is the second harvest feast of the Lord. And in case you don't know the fig tree has two harvests.

No where has the church been figuratively associated with Trumpets, other than Paul mentions a Trump of God, the voice of an archangel.

The Lord descends with the voice of the archangel and with the trump of God, or voice of God.

Rev 1
10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,

11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last:

1 Thes 4
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

So, the Church will be raptured at the trump of God or voice of God, when the Lord Himself comes for His bride. The Lord will come again at the 6th seal, for the gathering from heaven and earth. This will happen at the Last Trump which is blown on the Feast of Trumpets.

On the other hand, the Seals pertain to the church. The church is sealed by the Holy Spirit. The Lamb's book of life is the book with the 7 Seals being opened. When the Lamb's book of life is opened, names are going to be removed, and one's eternal destination will be revealed.

The Seals cannot be Jacob's 70th week. There is no time frame given by John. Time frames start after the Trumpets start sounding.

Only 69 weeks have happened for the Jews. There are 70 weeks determined upon the people of Daniel. The seals are the 70th week of Daniel

Dan 9
24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

The Church will be in heaven before the seals are opened. When the seals are opened God will turn His attention to His Chosen. The Jews cannot see that Jesus is the Messiah until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in.

 

[The Light]

That was not my point. The Light was making that claim. If the 144k leave at the 6th Seal, why were they sealed after they left the earth?

It was my point, but I did not say that the 144,000 leave at the 6th seal. I am saying that the 144,000 leave BEFORE the 6th seal. We can prove that by the 5th seal being the great tribulation. Then if we realize that the last trump is the end of Gods wrath and Rev 14 takes place in the seals we can see that the 144,000 are redeemed from the earth before the great tribulation which is shown in Revelation 14:13

This proves without a doubt that the 144,000 are redeemed from the earth before Gods wrath and are not on earth during the trumpets. Simple logic.

 

[ewq1938]

You are confusing me with ewq1938. I realize that the 7th seal has to be opened for the trumpets to begin sounding. So I realize that it is IMPOSSIBLE for the trumpets to be the same as the seals. Why ewq1938 can't grasp that FACT is unknown to me.

Now you are confusing me with someone else. I've known the seals are different than the trumps for decades.

No. The seven trumpets blown by angels are for the wicked as they are the wrath of God. The 12 tribes across the earth, THE SEED OF THE WOMAN, will not be on earth during the trumpets. They will be raptured at the 6th seal.

They will be here for all the trumps, raptured after the 7th has sounded.

 

[ewq1938]

It was my point, but I did not say that the 144,000 leave at the 6th seal. I am saying that the 144,000 leave BEFORE the 6th seal. We can prove that by the 5th seal being the great tribulation. Then if we realize that the last trump is the end of Gods wrath and Rev 14 takes place in the seals we can see that the 144,000 are redeemed from the earth before the great tribulation which is shown in Revelation 14:13

This proves without a doubt that the 144,000 are redeemed from the earth before Gods wrath and are not on earth during the trumpets. Simple logic.

There would be no need for the seal of God if that was true. The seal is needed to protect them during the Great Tribulation. They cannot be spiritual tampered with or deceived because of that seal. IMO it also will protect them from being killed.

 

[The Light]

There would be no need for the seal of God if that was true. The seal is needed to protect them during the Great Tribulation. They cannot be spiritual tampered with or deceived because of that seal. IMO it also will protect them from being killed.

Yeah. That's what you would think wouldn't you. However, we can prove that is not the case with simple logic. All you need to understand is that the tribulation is over at the 6th seal and the wrath of God is over at the 7th trumpet when the kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord.

 

[ewq1938]

All you need to understand is that the tribulation is over at the 6th seal and the wrath of God is over at the 7th trumpet when the kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord.

You are wrong. The tribulation hasn't even started when the 6th seal was opened and scripture is clear the wrath of God starts at the 7th trump, not ends. You have everything backwards. What denomination do you belong to. This isn't asked to be judgemental, I just want to know who is teaching this. Your understanding of the 6th seal is common enough but the wrath ending at the 7th trump is not something I have ever heard from anyone else.

 

[The Light]

You are wrong. The tribulation hasn't even started when the 6th seal was opened and scripture is clear the wrath of God starts at the 7th trump, not ends. You have everything backwards. What denomination do you belong to. This isn't asked to be judgemental, I just want to know who is teaching this. Your understanding of the 6th seal is common enough but the wrath ending at the 7th trump is not something I have ever heard from anyone else.

This is all the proof necessary to show that the tribulation is over at the 6th seal.

Matt 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Rev 6
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

 

[ewq1938]

This is all the proof necessary to show that the tribulation is over at the 6th seal.

Nothing shows it is over at the 6th seal. The fact that it doesn't even start until Revelation 13, and that it ends in Revelation 11 just as the 7th trump sounds proves it didn't even start until the 6th trump.

7th trump events:

Rev 13:1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
Rev 13:2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.
Rev 13:3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.
Rev 13:4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
Rev 13:5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
Rev 13:6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
Rev 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
Rev 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
Rev 13:9 If any man have an ear, let him hear.
Rev 13:10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.
Rev 13:11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
Rev 13:12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
Rev 13:13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
Rev 13:14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
Rev 13:15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
Rev 13:16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
Rev 13:17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
Rev 13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.


It's hilarious you claim the Great Tribulation is over in the seals when it starts in the 6th trump. This is because you lack the understanding that all the seals are information of future events not events themselves.

 

[The Light]

Nothing shows it is over at the 6th seal. The fact that it doesn't even start until Revelation 13, and that it ends in Revelation 11 just as the 7th trump sounds proves it didn't even start until the 6th trump.

7th trump events:

Rev 13:1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
Rev 13:2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.
Rev 13:3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.
Rev 13:4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
Rev 13:5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
Rev 13:6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
Rev 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
Rev 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
Rev 13:9 If any man have an ear, let him hear.
Rev 13:10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.
Rev 13:11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
Rev 13:12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
Rev 13:13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
Rev 13:14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
Rev 13:15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
Rev 13:16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
Rev 13:17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
Rev 13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

Yes, this is the tribulation in Rev 13. The FACT is you don't know the difference between the tribulation and the wrath of God. The events in Rev 13 and 14 occur during the seals. If you were able to comprehend when the 7th trumpet sounds the mystery of God is finished. The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord. Armageddon has happened and judgment is occurring. Then you get another view of what happens in the seals. Why you aren't able to get that, I don't know.

It's hilarious you claim the Great Tribulation is over in the seals when it starts in the 6th trump.

I claim? I don't need to claim it. It's right her for all to read. Can you comprehend what IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE TRIBUALTION means?

Matt 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Rev 6
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

This is because you lack the understanding that all the seals are information of future events not events themselves.

LOL. Yeah you think they are not events and yet Jesus tells the same events of the seals in Matthew 24. How do you not understand this?. Here are the beginning of sorrows.

Matthew 24
5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.

7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.

8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.

The beginning of sorrows are the 1st four seals
Rev 6

2 And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.

3 And when he had opened the second seal, I heard the second beast say, Come and see.

4 And there went out another horse that was red: and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword.

5 And when he had opened the third seal, I heard the third beast say, Come and see. And I beheld, and lo a black horse; and he that sat on him had a pair of balances in his hand.

6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine.

7 And when he had opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth beast say, Come and see.

8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.

Here is the Great Tribulation in Matthew 24

Matt 24

15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand

16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:

18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.

19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Here is the Great Tribulation in the seals
Revelation 6
10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

No need to repeat the coming of Jesus in Matthew 24 is the coming of Jesus at the 6th seal as I have already posted the scriptures. All you have to do is understand what the words IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE TRIBULATION means.

You just ignore what is written because you are unable to comprehend what is written, so you skip over it and call it unactionable events.

And yet you are never able to explain what this is.

Rev 14
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

17 And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.

18 And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.

19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.

 

[ewq1938]

Yes, this is the tribulation in Rev 13. The FACT is you don't know the difference between the tribulation and the wrath of God.

It's you that doesn't.

The events in Rev 13 and 14 occur during the seals.

Revelation 13 is within the 6th trumpet. The end of the Great Tribulation is shown in Revelation 11, again it's the 6th trumpet until the two prophets rise into heaven and then the 7th trump sounds.

If you were able to comprehend when the 7th trumpet sounds the mystery of God is finished. The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord. Armageddon has happened and judgment is occurring.

Wrong. Armageddon happens after the 7th trump sounds.

Then you get another view of what happens in the seals. Why you aren't able to get that, I don't know.

I understand these things better than you do.

I claim? I don't need to claim it. It's right her for all to read. Can you comprehend what IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE TRIBUALTION means?

That's the 7th trump timeframe.

LOL. Yeah you think they are not events and yet Jesus tells the same events of the seals in Matthew 24. How do you not understand this?.

You are the one unable to understand. I know that Matthew 24 and the 6th seal are just descriptions of what happens at the 7th trump. No event happens in either passage. They are PROPHECIES of future events.