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The Trinity & The Godhead

Discussion in 'Christian Apologetics Forum' started by Thorwald, Apr 8, 2011.

  1. Thorwald

    Thorwald Member

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    I am confused by the following scriptures;

    Isaiah 44:6....Is The Son not the Lord of Lords and king of kings? Would this not make The Son, 'King of Israel'? If so, then where does 'The Father' fit into 'GOD'?

    Revelation chpt 4.....It states that He who is sitting on the throne, 'created all things'. Other N/T scripture, states that it was The Son that created everything. We are also told, that no man has ever seen The Father (The Almighty) at any time. Jesus stated, "My Father and I are one." Is it possible, that The Son is in fact 'two' figures, and not one (separating The Son as God, versus the Lamb...resurrected Son of Man...our brother)? Is Revelation not The Son (The Word) reconciling His kingdom before submitting Himself and His kingdom unto The Father (occurring after Revelation)? Rev 1:6 and Ephesians 4:6, may have a different meaning than what Christian ministers believe, and teach.

    Is it possible, that only The Son actually bears the title 'God', and The Father (along with The Holy Ghost), are above everything else? We do not know exactly how man has interpreted what God has told them. Man may have used the term 'God', when they should have used the term 'The Father' when referencing The Son's Father. Just a thought.

    Thorwald Johansen
     
  2. rockytopva

    rockytopva Well-Known Member Encounter Team

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    I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I. - John 14:28

    But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me: - John 15:26

    If E = mc[sup]2 [/sup]

    then by simple division

    m = E / c[sup]2[/sup]

    Therefore by Einstein’s theory all matter came together with light and energy, otherwise his theory is in error. Look at the sun oh man! What is the result of the fusion / fission process but light and energy? The same energy that went into the creation of mass is being released in this process. Turn your head to the sun and observe! You are looking at the same light and energy that went into the creation of the universe being released! Imagine the Holy Spirit and Jesus proceeding to earth from this great store of energy and light!

    But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. - 2 Peter 3:19

    At the end of time the elements are going to dissociate back into the light and energy from which they were created.

    Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning. - James 1:17

    The Heavenly Father is the light and the energy from which all things proceedeth!

    Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. - John 14:6

    Which is why we go to the Father in the name of Jesus... Our only was to the true light and energy.
     
  3. Thorwald

    Thorwald Member

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    Hi. Thank you for your response. I have been busy doing income taxes and corporate yearends. I have only three clients left, in order to complete my tax season.

    If I use Isaiah 44:6 in order to identify "GOD", I have two figures, not three. If I refer to the scriptures that I posted originally, and add the following, I come to a total of "four" figures;

    01). Jesus states that He is looking forward to the glory that He had before the world was.

    02). In Genesis, we find the words, "Let us make make man in our own image."

    03). Jesus is identified, as being the "only begotten Son of God".

    04). The scriptures state, that Jesus is The Word in the flesh, and The Word is God.

    05). The scriptures state that the only begotten Son of God, was sent into the world, and further state, that the world was made by Him, and knew Him not.

    Since it was "The Son" that created everything, and He must reconcile His kingdom before submitting Himself and His kingdom unto The Father, and I do not break any scripture or try to understand God. The Son, The Father,....etc., through 'vanity', I must assume, that the following is the truth;

    a) The Father and The Holy Ghost (who proceedeth from The Father) along with The Father's Son, must have existed in the beginning.

    B) The Father's Son was allowed to create everything. He began this 'creating', by first creating His own Son, in His exact image. Since Jesus is referred to as 'the only begotten Son of God', I assume that The Son used His own sperm in order to create Jesus. This would explain the difference between the creation of Jesus, and all other creations. The Father's Son then gave the title of "GOD" to Himself and His only begotten Son, Jesus.

    c) All other creations in heaven and earth, were done under the rule of "GOD", but never again, was The Son's sperm used to create anything.

    This would explain a lot of the scriptures, that the Christian ministry has tried to come to grips with (The Trinity & The Godhead), but has had to make assumptions in order to explain their 'understanding'. This would also mean, that The Son, is "The Father" of every living creature (heaven and earth).

    Your comments would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

    Thorwald Johansen




     
  4. aspen

    aspen “"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few

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    God the Father led Israel out of Egypt - therefore, He is the Redeemer of Israel.
     
  5. Thorwald

    Thorwald Member

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    I am not so sure about the accuracy of your statement above. It really doesn't 'jive' with the scriptures that I posted before. I believe that "Our Father who art in heaven', refers to The Son. I also believe, that mankind who has/have seen Christ sitting on the right hand of God, actually saw Christ sitting on the right hand of The Father's Son. The Father (The Almighty) has never been seen by man. He is referred to as being "invisible".

    I realize that the thought of having 'four' figures versus 'three' in understanding the Trinity/Godhead, is in contradiction to the basic Christian belief/understanding. The use of four figures, however, makes more sense, than three, when I list the various scriptures pertaining to God/Christ/Son/Father,...etc. For instance, Rev 1:6 refers to Christ having made men into kings and priests unto "GOD and His Father'. Ephesians 4:6 tells us there is 'One GOD and Father of All, who is in us all and over us all.' In neither of the two scripture verses, does it use the word, "who" is Father, or "who" is His Father. Both verses use the conjunction "and" instead, making me believe, that there is a difference between "GOD" and "The Father". :)

    Thorwald Johansen
     
  6. aspen

    aspen “"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few

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    [font="Verdana][size="2"]Judges 6:9
    I rescued you from the hand of the Egyptians. And I delivered you from the hand of all your oppressors; I drove them out before you and gave you their land.[/size][/font]
    [font="Verdana] [/font]
    [font="Verdana][size="3"]2 Samuel 7:23
    And who is like your people Israel—the one nation on earth that God went out to redeem as a people for himself, and to make a name for himself, and to perform great and awesome wonders by driving out nations and their gods from before your people, whom you redeemed from Egypt?

    [/size][/font]

    [font="Verdana] [/font][font=Verdana][size=2][b][url="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Jeremiah+50:34&version=NIV"]Jeremiah 50:34[/url][/b][/size][/font]

    [font="Verdana][size="3"]Yet their Redeemer is strong; the LORD Almighty is his name. He will vigorously defend their cause so that he may bring rest to their land, but unrest to those who live in Babylon.
    [/size][/font]


    [font="Verdana] [/font]
    [font="Verdana] [/font]
     
  7. Duckybill

    Duckybill New Member

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    1 Corinthians 10:1-4 (ESV)
    [sup]1 [/sup]For I want you to know, brothers, that our fathers were all under the cloud, and all passed through the sea, [sup]2 [/sup]and all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea, [sup]3 [/sup]and all ate the same spiritual food, [sup]4 [/sup]and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank from the spiritual Rock that followed them, and the Rock was Christ.

     
  8. TheWarIs1

    TheWarIs1 New Member

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    Hos 13:4 Yet I am the LORD thy God from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know no god but me: for there is no saviour beside me.

    Hos 13:14 I will ransom them from the power of the grave; I will redeem them from death: O death, I will be thy plagues; O grave, I will be thy destruction: repentance shall be hid from mine eyes.


    I think it goes back to The Father and I are one. Oneness as in untied, one Godhead, gods.





    Now just think, we, his offspring are of the Royal family of Heaven.

    Psa 82:6 I have said, Ye are gods(eloheem); and all of you are children of the most High.

    Joh 10:34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?

    We are joint Heirs of the promise.
     
  9. Guestman

    Guestman Active Member

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    Isaiah 44:6 identifies that there is only one true God, in which God himself says: "This is what Jehovah has said, the King of Israel and the Repurchaser of him, Jehovah of armies, ‘I am the first and I am the last, and besides me there is no God." Jesus fully agreed with this, saying in prayer to his Father: "This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ."(John 17:3) Jesus thus shows that he is not God, but only "sent forth" from the "only true God."

    Moses told the nation of Israel just before entering the land of Canaan in 1473 B.C.E.: "You—you have been shown, so as to know that Jehovah is the true God; there is no other besides him."(Deut 4:35) Over 700 years later, through the prophet Isaiah, God told the nation of Israel: "You are my witnesses,” is the utterance of Jehovah, “even my servant whom I have chosen, in order that you may know and have faith in me, and that you may understand that I am the same One. Before me there was no God formed, and after me there continued to be none."(Isa 43:10)

    And again through the prophet Isaiah, God said: "This is what Jehovah has said, your Repurchaser and the Former of you from the belly: “I, Jehovah, am doing everything, stretching out the heavens by myself, laying out the earth. Who was with me?"(Isa 44:24) Thus, no other "God" equal to Jehovah exists.

    At Revelation 4:11, the symbolic "twenty-four elders" fall down before God's throne, saying: "You are worthy, Jehovah, even our God, to receive the glory and the honor and the power, because you created all things, and because of your will they existed and were created.” Hence, there is only one true God, Jehovah, no one other God equal to or with him.

    Jesus Christ is God's "only-begotten Son" (John 3:16, "only-begotten", Greek mo·no·ge·nes, meaning "single of its kind, only,” or “the only member of a kin or kind.” Thayer’s Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament, 1889, p. 417; Liddell and Scott’s Greek-English Lexicon, Oxford, 1968, p. 1144 ), the "faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation by God" (Rev 3:14). He "is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation."(Col 1:15) Thus, Jesus was Jehovah God's first creative handiwork, and then through Jesus (who is Michael the archangel in heaven) life and the universe came in to existence, being called a "master worker".(Col 1:16; Prov 8:30)

    The holy spirit is Jehovah God's active force, his applied power that he used to create everything. It is not part of a "Godhead", nor is Jesus Christ. The holy spirit is likened to water at Isaiah 44:3, in which Jehovah says: "For I shall pour out water upon the thirsty one, and trickling streams upon the dry place. I shall pour out my spirit upon your seed, and my blessing upon your descendants." Water is not a person but something that is lifeless, but can give life.

    To further show that the holy spirit is God's active or applied force, on the day of Pentecost, 33 C.E., 120 assembled in the upper room in Jerusalem whereby Acts 2:4 says that "all became filled with holy spirit and started to speak with different tongues, just as the spirit was granting them to make utterance." These were not filled with a person.

    Even of Jesus, Luke 4:1 says, following his baptism, that "Jesus, full of holy spirit, turned away from the Jordan, and he was led about by the spirit in the wilderness." Jesus was not filled with a member of the "Godhead", which is distorted rendering of three Greek words by the King James Bible, (1) Thei´on at Acts 17:29, meaning "Divine Being",(2) Thei·o´tes at Romans 1:20, meaning "Godship", and (3) the·o´te·tos at Colossians 2:9, meaning "divine quality".

    At Acts 10:38, of Jesus, it says that "Jesus who was from Naz´a·reth, how God anointed him with holy spirit and power, and he went through the land doing good and healing all those oppressed by the Devil; because God was with him." Therefore, Jesus is not God, but God's "master worker" and "only-begotten Son", nor is the holy spirit, which is God's active force or applied power that used to create the universe and all life. Only Jehovah is "the only true God."
     
    tigger 2 and Alethos like this.
  10. Duckybill

    Duckybill New Member

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    John 20:28-29 (ESV)
    [sup]28 [/sup]Thomas answered him, “My Lord and my God!” [sup]29 [/sup]Jesus said to him, “Have you believed because you have seen me? Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”

     
  11. Guestman

    Guestman Active Member

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    Does Thomas words have more authority than Jesus words to Mary: "I am ascending to my God and your God" ?(John 20:17) Apparently in your mind, Thomas is higher in influence and power than Jesus, whom you supposedly call your "Lord". So why not call Thomas "My Lord" since, according to you, has more weight or clout than Jesus.
     
  12. Duckybill

    Duckybill New Member

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    Thomas was taught directly by Jesus. He believed Jesus was/is God. As did Peter, John and Paul. There is no contradiction. The plurality of the one true God is Biblical.

    Genesis 1:26 (ESV)
    [sup]26 [/sup]Then God said, “Let us make man in our image, after our likeness.
     
  13. Guestman

    Guestman Active Member

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    Then that would put the student Thomas above the "master" Jesus, of which he is not.(Matt 10:24; Luke 6:40), placing Thomas words as having more authority than Jesus own words, such as Jesus saying that he is "the beginning of the creation by God".(Rev 3:14)

    Concerning the plurality of "god" (Hebrew ’Elo·him′ ), Aaron Ember wrote: “That the language of the O[ld] T[estament] has entirely given up the idea of plurality in . . . [’Elo·him′] (as applied to the God of Israel) is especially shown by the fact that it is almost invariably construed with a singular verbal predicate, and takes a singular adjectival attribute. . . . [’Elo·him′] must rather be explained as an intensive plural, denoting greatness and majesty, being equal to The Great God.”—The American Journal of Semitic Languages and Literatures, Vol. XXI, 1905, p. 208.

    The title ’Elo·him′ draws attention to Jehovah God’s strength as the Creator. It appears 35 times by itself in the account of creation, and every time the verb describing what he said and did is in the singular number. (Gen 1:1–2:4)
     
  14. martinlawrencescott

    martinlawrencescott Servant Prince

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    I don't see how a created being can accurately represent God. If Jesus isn't God, then He doesn't represent His character completely. If Jesus isn't God, then at some point before God made anything else, He was alone.

    All creation is originally manifest from the character and nature of God. The character and nature of God is relationship. How can relationship be a created thing if it isn't already part of God's eternal character and nature?
     
  15. Duckybill

    Duckybill New Member

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    Jesus is God.

    John 10:27-28 (ESV)

    [sup]27 [/sup]My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. [sup]28 [/sup]I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand.

    Jesus in the OT:

    Jeremiah 17:10 (ESV)
    [sup]10 [/sup]“I the Lord search the heart and test the mind, to give every man according to his ways, according to the fruit of his deeds.”
     
  16. Charlie

    Charlie New Member

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    First let us consider Isaiah 57:15

    For thus saith the high and lofty One that inhabiteth eternity, whose name is
    Holy; I dwell in the high and holy place, with him also that is of a contrite and humble spirit, to revive the spirit of the humble, and to revive the heart of the contrite ones.

    God created the heaven and then the Word made all that God created. John 1:1 tells us,

    In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

    John then proceeds to tell us all things were made by the Word and in John 1:14 tells us,

    And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

    God, the High and Holy One who inhabits eternity, created all things and the Word, that became Jesus Christ, made all things while the Lord, in Heaven, the Father of the Son sits on His throne in heaven and, Jesus Christ, who was born, was crucified and rose from the dead, sits, in His incorruptible body, on the right hand of the Father in heaven.

    At the end of time, when all is as God planned it, the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit of God, will again be one, with God, in eternity, I Cor. 15:28.

    God Bless you. Charlie.




     
  17. Alethos

    Alethos New Member

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    When a certain one came to Jesus and asked Him. saying,

    "Which is the first commandment of all?

    Jesus answered "Hear, Ο Israel; the Lord our God is one Lord: and thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment" (Mark 12:29).

    The same words were uttered by Moses, and are recorded in Deut. 6:4.

    "Hear, Ο Israel: Yahweh, our Elohim. is One Yahweh."

    The literal translation of this is, "He (Yah) who shall be our mighty ones, is the One who shall be."

    The greatest of these mighty ones of God is His Son Jesus Christ.

    Gods name reveals HIs work in future subjects known as His Children...Jesus being the firstborn & the first fruits.

    For in Jesus answer he himself acknowledges he has a God who is One. For even God Himself gave Jesus a name!


    Php 2:9 Wherefore God (Yah) also hath highly exalted him (Jesus), and given him a name which is above every name:

    Questions:

    • Who did the name belong to?
    • Where is the source of righteousness in the name?
    • To be given a name means you did not possess that name previously!
    • If Jesus is God -- Can God be Highly Exalted?
    • If so, that means God wasn’t Highly exalted previously
    No, the righteousness belongs to the "name" of Yahweh (or Jehovah in the english) and has been manifested through the name of Jesus. That is why the Spirit through the prophet said,

    "I ( Jesus) will (future tense) greatly rejoice in the Lord (Yahweh): my (Jesus) soul shall (future tense) be joyful in my God: for he (Yahweh) hath clothed me (Jesus) with the garments of salvation, he hath covered me with the
    robe of righteousness" (Isa. 61:10).

    Questions:

    If Jesus was already in Heaven with His Father wouldn’t he already be greatly rejoicing in God? And how can God greatly rejoice in Himself, if Jesus is God? Why look forward to this event if Jesus is already Glorified? Forget the transfiguration! Why would Jesus be shown Kingdom Glory if he had the Heaven of Heavens!

    "My soul (body) shall be joyful in my God? Again we have Jesus in Heaven looking forward to being in bodily form (Flesh) awaiting to be joyful in Himself, if He is God?

    Does God need salvation? Can God be clothed with Salvation? If He is Jesus? And if Jesus/God is clothing Jesus/God with salvation and a robe of righteousness, that must mean that at some stage Jesus/God were not "clothed" with salvation and righteousness?


    Confused?

    The pre - existence of Jesus Christ cannot work!

    Acts 3:22 God raised up a prophet (Jesus) like unto Moses! Is God like his brethren :blink:
    , like Moses? Acts 7:37

    "Ye are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ "himself" being the chief corner-stone"

    "Himself" separated person from God and his brethren. God is not the cornerstone of the house! The work of Jesus is to establish the house that the One True God may dwell in it and through it...YES even Jesus who is the corner stone, the one holding it altogether!


    "to the "name" of Jesus every knee shall bow, and every tongue confess, that he is Lord, to the glory of God the Father" (Phil. 2:10,


    Again Jesus is manifesting the Glory back to its original source (Yahweh).

    "He (Jesus) shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David; and he shall reign ever the house of Jacob forever, and of his kingdom there shall be no end." Luke 1:32

    Shall be great? If they believed he already existed wouldn’t he already be great?
    Shall be called? If he pre existed what was his name before hand? and where is it written? Did God given him a name he already had?

    Why is His Father giving something which if he was God he would already possess?

    And Jesus
    increased in wisdom and stature, and in favor with God and men" (Luke 2:45-52).


    Or as those who believe Jesus is God would change it...

    And God
    increased in wisdom and stature, and in favor with God and men" (Luke 2:45-52).

    Repugnant isn’t it! Frightening the lengths people will go to alter the simplicity of truth!

    I know -- you are asking the question "How could God "increase" in wisdom"? Well you answered "He cannot" then Jesus is not God but an obedient loving son who was born of a woman and suffered the frailty of the flesh.

    Yes lets not forget where he is now sitting...not in Gods throne, but at his right hand side.

    Alethos
     
  18. Duckybill

    Duckybill New Member

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    Sure can, and does.

    Genesis 1:26 (ESV)
    [sup]26 [/sup]Then God said, “Let us make man in our image, after our likeness.

    Isaiah 40:3 (ESV)
    [sup]3 [/sup]A voice cries: “In the wilderness prepare the way of the Lord; make straight in the desert a highway for our God.

    John 1 The Word was with God ... The Word was God ... The Word became flesh ...

    John 3:13-15 (ESV)
    [sup]13 [/sup]No one has ascended into heaven except he who descended from heaven, the Son of Man. [sup]14 [/sup]And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up, [sup]15 [/sup]that whoever believes in him may have eternal life.

    John 6:38 (ESV)
    [sup]38 [/sup]For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me.

    John 8:57-58 (ESV)
    [sup]57 [/sup]So the Jews said to him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have you seen Abraham?” [sup]58 [/sup]Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.”

    John 17:5 (ESV)
    [sup]5 [/sup]And now, Father, glorify me in your own presence with the glory that I had with you before the world existed.

    1 Corinthians 10:1-4 (ESV)
    [sup]1 [/sup]For I want you to know, brothers, that our fathers were all under the cloud, and all passed through the sea, [sup]2 [/sup]and all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea, [sup]3 [/sup]and all ate the same spiritual food, [sup]4 [/sup]and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank from the spiritual Rock that followed them, and the Rock was Christ.


    1 Corinthians 15:47 (ESV)
    [sup]47 [/sup]The first man was from the earth, a man of dust; the second man is from heaven.

    Colossians 1:16 (ESV)
    [sup]16 [/sup]For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him.

    Jeremiah 17:10 (ESV)
    [sup]10 [/sup]“I the Lord search the heart and test the mind, to give every man according to his ways, according to the fruit of his deeds.”

    You are SOOOO confused.

     
  19. veteran

    veteran New Member

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    Isa 7:13-14
    13 And he said, Hear ye now, O house of David; Is it a small thing for you to weary men, but will ye weary my God also?
    14 Therefore the Lord Himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.
    (KJV)

    Isa 9:6-7
    6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon His shoulder: and His name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
    7 Of the increase of His government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.
    (KJV)

    Matt 1:22-23
    22 Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying,
    23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.
    (KJV)

    John 14:8-9
    8 Philip saith unto Him, "Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us."
    9 Jesus saith unto him, "Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known Me, Philip? he that hath seen Me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, 'Shew us the Father?' "
    (KJV)


    Why is it so many leave out those Scripture witnesses that show Christ is God in the Role of Saviour, come in the flesh?

    The unbelieving Jews all the way back to the blind Pharisees started an agenda against Jesus of Nazareth being known as The Christ. To this day the orthodox Jews are taught and believe Jesus was a seditionist come to overthrow the law of Moses. Even some believing Jews still have a problem with identifying Jesus as Immanuel, God The Saviour, and want to default to Jesus being only a Prophet Moses was given to speak of.


    Matt 22:41-46
    41 While the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them,
    42 Saying, "What think ye of Christ? whose son is he?" They say unto him, "The Son of David."

    Our Lord Jesus asked the Pharisees who they thought Christ is. Jesus was not asking them who they thought He was, but was asking what they understood about Messiah from The Scriptures (Old Testament Scripture).

    The Pharisees replied that Christ (Messiah) is "The Son of David." That's correct, because of the Isaiah 7 prophecy that Immanuel would come from the house of David. But that's only about the flesh, being born of David's seed. That's all the Pharisees cared to recognize Messiah as, just a flesh Prophet on the order of Moses, and not as God come in the flesh.

    But looking at the Isaiah 7 Scripture reveals a specific "sign" God promised to give about Immanuel. He was to be born of a virgin. How is it the Pharisees missed that "sign"?

    That "sign" is what Jesus is reminding them of with His next question to them...

    43 He saith unto them, "How then doth David in spirit call Him Lord, saying,
    44 'The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit Thou on My right hand, till I make Thine enemies Thy footstool?'
    45 If David then call Him Lord, how is He his son?"

    Jesus reminds them of what David said in Psalms 110. He asks them how is Christ David's son, if David called Christ "my Lord"?

    What our Lord Jesus was showing them was how David in the Spirit recognized Christ (Messiah) as God, even though Christ would be born in the flesh of David's seed by a virgin.

    46 And no man was able to answer Him a word, neither durst any man from that day forth ask Him any more questions.
    (KJV)

    The Pharisees could not or would not answer, for if they agreed that Christ is not only the Son of David, but also God come in the flesh, He could then ask them why they didn't believe on the "sign" in Isaiah 7 about the virgin birth, pointing directly to Jesus.

    It was for this reason that Apostle John said the following about Jesus The Christ...

    I Jn 4:3
    3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
    (KJV)

    When John points to Jesus Christ is come in the flesh, that's about Christ (Messiah) per qualification from the Old Testament prophets. It's about "Immanuel" (God with us) come in the flesh, born of a virgin. John states that the "spirit of antichrist" will not confess that Christ came in the flesh.

    Thus a believer on the Isaiah prophecy will say Jesus Christ, which is to say Jesus of Nazareth is The Christ, born of a virgin, and is Immanuel (God with us). This is important, because it actually is the basis of what a Christian is, i.e., a believer that Jesus Christ is God The Saviour come in the flesh to die upon the cross for the remission of sins of those who believe.

     
  20. Alethos

    Alethos New Member

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    Hi Veteran

    Therefore the Lord Himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel

    I will deal with the Immanuel name shortly.

    Shall, Shall, Shall....

    "Himself"

    All future!

    Alethos
     
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