The Trinity & The Godhead

[Duckybill]

Hi Veteran

Therefore the Lord Himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel

I will deal with the Immanuel name shortly.

Shall, Shall, Shall....

"Himself"

All future!

"God with us" speaking of the virgin's Child, Jesus. It's quite simple.

Matthew 1:23 (ESV)
[sup]23 [/sup]“Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and they shall call his name Immanuel” (which means, God with us).

 

[Alethos]

"For there is ONE GOD and one mediator between God and men, the MAN Christ Jesus" 1 Tim. 2:5

The history of religion has certainly degenerated from its original form; pure and holy worshipping a single God (monotheism) to some 2000 years later we see various forms of gods worshipped (polytheism).

"Christianity," accross the world has been corrupted over many generations although they confess to read the same Bible.

The Old and New Testaments are very explicit about the absolute oneness of God.

Jesus when asked which is the first commandment of all?"

The son answered "The first of all the commandments is; Hear, O Israel, THE LORD OUR GOD IS ONE LORD." (Mark 12:29 cp Deut 6:4)

But what of today?

Christians today believe in four gods, yes you read correctly! they believe in three good gods and one evil one. As shockingas it may seem some denominations believe in five gods, as the Roman Catholic Church, which has added a "Mother of God" who is in their of belief system and part of the supreme deity, also a vast number of demi-gods, one for every day of the year (and more), they are mythical and man-invented deities worshipped and prayed to in vain.

For there is ONE GOD and one mediator between God and men, the MAN Christ Jesus 1 Tim. 2:5

God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good? Num 23:19

Beside Me there is no God Isa. 44:6.

I am God, and there is none else; there is no God beside Me Isa. 45:5.

I am God, and there is none else Isa. 46:9.

ONE GOD and Father of ALL, Who is above ALL Eph. 4:6.

Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God is ONE LORD Deut. 6.4.

There is but ONE GOD, the Father, of Whom are all things, AND one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things 1 Cor. 8:6.

This is life eternal, that they might know Thee, the ONLY TRUE GOD, AND Jesus Christ, whom Thou hast sent" (John 17:3).

Jesus Christ is speaking here in John 17:3 speaking to God in prayer as the ONE TRUE GOD, and speaking of himself as separate from that One True God and sent by Him.

The Bible is emphatic when teaching the ONENESS of God, a clear distinction is made between One Eternal God, and the man Jesus Christ, His Son,

The facts about Jesus Christ:

• He was born a babe Luke 2:7.
• He "increased in wisdom" Luke 2:52.
• He "learned obedience by the things that he suffered" Heb. 5:8.
• He was "in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin" Heb. 4:15.
• He "offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto Him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared" Heb. 5:7.

How do you now bring into harmony the trinitarian idea of omnipotent and omniscient co-equality and co-eternity? It CANNOT fit. You must twist and wrest Scripture to make it fit and that is exactly what trinitarians have done. But why should we force a doctrine which is man made into the Scriptures of truth? We all here know and acknowledge the trinity is not taught in the Bible, nowhere is it found.

If you believe that Jesus Christ existing and possessed all power and wisdom, before his birth as a little baby you must deny the actual reality of his birth and Jesus "increasing in wisdom." Luke 2:52

God wisdom is without measure and infinite Psa 147:5. But you would have Jesus to be co-equal as God but also "increased in wisdom," as Jesus grew from a babe to manhood?

To believe that a Jesus/God who is omnipotent and coequal Trinity of Gods actually became a helpless babe is riduclous in its comprehension! The ONE TRUE GOD cannot become a helpless baby AND be all powerful, all knowing co equal ruler of heaven and earth at the same time.

They teach He emptied Himself to become a baby! Can THE ONE TRUE GOD be separated from His power and wisdom? Can infinite power and knowledge be inseparated from His very Godhead?

These professing Christians would have us believe God changed HImself into a powerless and ignorant dependant creature.

What happened to His power and wisdom?
DID He, or did He NOT, possess His eternal attributes?

Such foolish questions should not even be entertained because they are unscriptural ideas based on man made creeds.

 

[Duckybill]

Jesus personally taught Thomas for years. Thomas knew exactly who Jesus was/is. If Thomas was wrong calling Jesus "my God" Jesus would have SEVERELY rebuked Thomas. Jesus actually gave approval for Thomas' belief.. No man of God would allow such an erroneous statement to go unchallenged.

John 20:28-29 (ESV) 28 Thomas answered him, “My Lord and my God!” 29 Jesus said to him, “Have you believed because you have seen me? Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”

Jesus is indeed the Creator of all that was created.

Colossians 1:16 (ESV)
[sup]16 [/sup]For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him.

 

[Alethos]

Thomas understood where Jesus had been and the Power he now represented at His Father side:

John 20:17 Touch me not; for I (Jesus) am not yet ascended to my Father (God): but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I (Jesus) ascend unto my (Jesus) Father (God), and your Father (God); and to my (Jesus) God, and your God.

Your understanding makes a mockery of these word and they make no sense behind why Jesus would separate their Titles as Father and Son AND God.

But here in John 17 there’s another message "Do not keep clinging to me" in this response we see Jesus had further responsibilities to perform: Being a High Priest (Something God can never be!!!) was preparing himself God with blood and the evidence of his wounds he was preparing to ascend the "Most Holy" for the first time -- into heaven itself! One which would take Jesus into God's very presence to reveal the evidence of a perfect sacrifice: If you read Leviticus Chapter 16 this event is antitypical of the Day of Atonement when Jesus enter once and for all in the Most Holy Place.

40 days later he ascended for the first time !!!

Through Jesus ascension he became the one who would sanctify and bring all into the one (God), Heb 2:11,12,13,14,15; Psa 22:22; compare Psa 122:8; Rom 8:29).The distinction between Jesus - Father and God...and the brethren is strongly noted and one you all should pay a great deal of attention.

Thomas gave him the Title which he had been given through his sacrifice. Thomas acknowledge this by granting him something he would never had said while he was in the Flesh.

Rather than twist the scripture why not see the grandure in the statement as a testimony to the highly exalted postion God had given his son.

For now Jesus represents the Father in all things both in Heaven above and Earth below...and as Thomas learned...NOTHING IS HID FROM JESUS EYES. not even Thomas' poorly confessed lack of faith.

Alethos

 

[Duckybill]

You didn't even address the issue. You're trying to change the subject again.

 

[Alethos]

Also you may like to search the scriptures to find others who have acted on behalf of God, and are also referred to as God! That doesnt make them actually the ONE TRUE GOD who is above all and in all!

You also may like to ask yourself the question "Why did this statement occur after his resurrection and not before? Seeing as you as you say Jesus taught him for years?

What had changed?

This is a very Basic Bible teaching.

 

[Duckybill]

Thomas understood where Jesus had been and the Power he now represented at His Father side:

And he called Jesus "my God".

Also you may like to search the scriptures to find others who have acted on behalf of God, and are also referred to as God! That doesnt make them actually the ONE TRUE GOD who is above all and in all!

This is a very Basic Bible teaching.

You are still avoiding the issue. Thomas called Jesus "my God".

 

[Alethos]

Have you found elsewhere in the Scriptures where another is referred to as God?

 

[Duckybill]

Have you found elsewhere in the Scriptures where another is referred to as God?

Only Jesus, as you have already admitted. But Jesus is not "another".

Jeremiah 17:10 (NKJV)
[sup]10 [/sup]I, the Lord, search the heart, I test the mind, Even to give every man according to his ways, According to the fruit of his doings.

 

[Alethos]

Answer the question.

Do you know of another in the Bible who is referred to as God?

If you dont know it is ok to admit.

Alethos

 

[Duckybill]

Answer the question.

Do you know of another in the Bible who is referred to as God?

If you dont know it is ok to admit.

"Another Bible" ??? You have already admitted that Jesus is God, I.E.

Jeremiah 17:10 (NKJV)
[sup]10 [/sup]I, the Lord, search the heart, I test the mind, Even to give every man according to his ways, According to the fruit of his doings.

Would you like for me to post where you admitted that this is God???

 

[Alethos]

You are on the run Ducky but you have nowhere to go! You dont understand why Thomas used this terminology with Jesus, and further to this you don’t acknowledge another in the Bible carried Gods name! All you are doing is once again establishing an arrogant position by posting quotes and not reasoning out the Scriptures. Will you ever learn?

So lets try once last time Ducky.

Do you know elsewhere in the Bible where another has Gods name?

Its not a trick question Ducky! If you don’t know just say so...there’s no shame in not knowing something.

Alethos

 

[Duckybill]

You are on the run Ducky but you have nowhere to go! You dont understand why Thomas used this terminology with Jesus, and further to this you don’t acknowledge another in the Bible carried Gods name! All you are doing is once again establishing an arrogant position by posting quotes and not reasoning out the Scriptures. Will you ever learn?

So lets try once last time Ducky.

Do you know elsewhere in the Bible where another has Gods name?

Its not a trick question Ducky! If you don’t know just say so...there’s no shame in not knowing something.

Most everyone here knows that Jesus is God but you. Even you admitted it.

John 1 The Word was with God... The Word was God... The Word became flesh and dwelt among us.

 

[Alethos]

Most everyone here knows that Jesus is God but you. Even you admitted it.

John 1 The Word was with God... The Word was God... The Word became flesh and dwelt among us.

We have been here before Ducky, too many times. Your silence to a very simple question reveals your inner spirit! No need to continue if you are not willing to listen or learn.

Alethos

 

[Duckybill]

We have been here before Ducky, too many times.

Yes, and you are still evading the Scriptures.

Jn 1 The Word was God!!!!

 

[Alethos]

Isaiah 44:6 identifies that there is only one true God, in which God himself says: "This is what Jehovah has said, the King of Israel and the Repurchaser of him, Jehovah of armies, ‘I am the first and I am the last, and besides me there is no God." Jesus fully agreed with this, saying in prayer to his Father: "This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ."(John 17:3) Jesus thus shows that he is not God, but only "sent forth" from the "only true God."

Moses told the nation of Israel just before entering the land of Canaan in 1473 B.C.E.: "You—you have been shown, so as to know that Jehovah is the true God; there is no other besides him."(Deut 4:35) Over 700 years later, through the prophet Isaiah, God told the nation of Israel: "You are my witnesses,” is the utterance of Jehovah, “even my servant whom I have chosen, in order that you may know and have faith in me, and that you may understand that I am the same One. Before me there was no God formed, and after me there continued to be none."(Isa 43:10)

And again through the prophet Isaiah, God said: "This is what Jehovah has said, your Repurchaser and the Former of you from the belly: “I, Jehovah, am doing everything, stretching out the heavens by myself, laying out the earth. Who was with me?"(Isa 44:24) Thus, no other "God" equal to Jehovah exists.

At Revelation 4:11, the symbolic "twenty-four elders" fall down before God's throne, saying: "You are worthy, Jehovah, even our God, to receive the glory and the honor and the power, because you created all things, and because of your will they existed and were created.” Hence, there is only one true God, Jehovah, no one other God equal to or with him.

Jesus Christ is God's "only-begotten Son" (John 3:16, "only-begotten", Greek mo·no·ge·nes, meaning "single of its kind, only,” or “the only member of a kin or kind.” Thayer’s Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament, 1889, p. 417; Liddell and Scott’s Greek-English Lexicon, Oxford, 1968, p. 1144 ), the "faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation by God" (Rev 3:14). He "is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation."(Col 1:15) Thus, Jesus was Jehovah God's first creative handiwork, and then through Jesus (who is Michael the archangel in heaven) life and the universe came in to existence, being called a "master worker".(Col 1:16; Prov 8:30)

The holy spirit is Jehovah God's active force, his applied power that he used to create everything. It is not part of a "Godhead", nor is Jesus Christ. The holy spirit is likened to water at Isaiah 44:3, in which Jehovah says: "For I shall pour out water upon the thirsty one, and trickling streams upon the dry place. I shall pour out my spirit upon your seed, and my blessing upon your descendants." Water is not a person but something that is lifeless, but can give life.

To further show that the holy spirit is God's active or applied force, on the day of Pentecost, 33 C.E., 120 assembled in the upper room in Jerusalem whereby Acts 2:4 says that "all became filled with holy spirit and started to speak with different tongues, just as the spirit was granting them to make utterance." These were not filled with a person.

Even of Jesus, Luke 4:1 says, following his baptism, that "Jesus, full of holy spirit, turned away from the Jordan, and he was led about by the spirit in the wilderness." Jesus was not filled with a member of the "Godhead", which is distorted rendering of three Greek words by the King James Bible, (1) Thei´on at Acts 17:29, meaning "Divine Being",(2) Thei·o´tes at Romans 1:20, meaning "Godship", and (3) the·o´te·tos at Colossians 2:9, meaning "divine quality".

At Acts 10:38, of Jesus, it says that "Jesus who was from Naz´a·reth, how God anointed him with holy spirit and power, and he went through the land doing good and healing all those oppressed by the Devil; because God was with him." Therefore, Jesus is not God, but God's "master worker" and "only-begotten Son", nor is the holy spirit, which is God's active force or applied power that used to create the universe and all life. Only Jehovah is "the only true God."

Ducky, read this again and learn truth from one who has not been corrupted by politically motivated creeds.

Alethos

 

[Duckybill]

Ducky, read this again and learn truth from one who has not been corrupted by politically motivated creeds.

John wasn't corrupted by " corrupted by politically motivated creeds."
Jn 1 The Word was God.

 

[Alethos]

When a certain one came to Jesus and asked Him. saying,

"Which is the first commandment of all?

Jesus answered "Hear, Ο Israel; the Lord our God is one Lord: and thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment" (Mark 12:29).

The same words were uttered by Moses, and are recorded in Deut. 6:4.

"Hear, Ο Israel: Yahweh, our Elohim. is One Yahweh."

The literal translation of this is, "He (Yah) who shall be our mighty ones, is the One who shall be."

The greatest of these mighty ones of God is His Son Jesus Christ.

Gods name reveals HIs work in future subjects known as His Children...Jesus being the firstborn & the first fruits.

For in Jesus answer he himself acknowledges he has a God who is One. For even God Himself gave Jesus a name!

Php 2:9 Wherefore God (Yah) also hath highly exalted him (Jesus), and given him a name which is above every name:

Questions:

• Who did the name belong to?
• Where is the source of righteousness in the name?
• To be given a name means you did not possess that name previously!
• If Jesus is God -- Can God be Highly Exalted?
• If so, that means God wasn’t Highly exalted previously

No, the righteousness belongs to the "name" of Yahweh (or Jehovah in the english) and has been manifested through the name of Jesus. That is why the Spirit through the prophet said,

"I ( Jesus) will (future tense) greatly rejoice in the Lord (Yahweh): my (Jesus) soul shall (future tense) be joyful in my God: for he (Yahweh) hath clothed me (Jesus) with the garments of salvation, he hath covered me with the robe of righteousness" (Isa. 61:10).

Questions:

If Jesus was already in Heaven with His Father wouldn’t he already be greatly rejoicing in God? And how can God greatly rejoice in Himself, if Jesus is God? Why look forward to this event if Jesus is already Glorified? Forget the transfiguration! Why would Jesus be shown Kingdom Glory if he had the Heaven of Heavens!

"My soul (body) shall be joyful in my God? Again we have Jesus in Heaven looking forward to being in bodily form (Flesh) awaiting to be joyful in Himself, if He is God?

Does God need salvation? Can God be clothed with Salvation? If He is Jesus? And if Jesus/God is clothing Jesus/God with salvation and a robe of righteousness, that must mean that at some stage Jesus/God were not "clothed" with salvation and righteousness?

Confused?

The pre - existence of Jesus Christ cannot work!

Acts 3:22 God raised up a prophet (Jesus) like unto Moses! Is God like his brethren :blink: , like Moses? Acts 7:37

"Ye are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ "himself" being the chief corner-stone"

"Himself" separated person from God and his brethren. God is not the cornerstone of the house! The work of Jesus is to establish the house that the One True God may dwell in it and through it...YES even Jesus who is the corner stone, the one holding it altogether!

"to the "name" of Jesus every knee shall bow, and every tongue confess, that he is Lord, to the glory of God the Father" (Phil. 2:10,


Again Jesus is manifesting the Glory back to its original source (Yahweh).

"He (Jesus) shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David; and he shall reign ever the house of Jacob forever, and of his kingdom there shall be no end." Luke 1:32

Shall be great? If they believed he already existed wouldn’t he already be great?
Shall be called? If he pre existed what was his name before hand? and where is it written? Did God given him a name he already had?

Why is His Father giving something which if he was God he would already possess?

And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favor with God and men" (Luke 2:45-52).


Or as those who believe Jesus is God would change it...

And God increased in wisdom and stature, and in favor with God and men" (Luke 2:45-52).

Repugnant isn’t it! Frightening the lengths people will go to alter the simplicity of truth!

I know -- you are asking the question "How could God "increase" in wisdom"? Well you answered "He cannot" then Jesus is not God but an obedient loving son who was born of a woman and suffered the frailty of the flesh.

Yes lets not forget where he is now sitting...not in Gods throne, but at his right hand side.

Alethos

And Ducky...how did God increase in wisdom?

 

[Duckybill]

And Ducky...how did God increase in wisdom?

Already answered that.

Philippians 2:7 (ESV)
[sup]7 [/sup]but made himself nothing, taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men.

 

[Alethos]

Already answered that.

Philippians 2:7 (ESV)
[sup]7 [/sup]but made himself nothing, taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men.

So where did his power go?