THE TRUTH OF DANIEL'S SEVENTY WEEKS PROPHECY

[Randy Kluth]

Dear Mr. Kluth,

You said:
Actually, it was, I believe, completed at the 1st Coming of Christ. The prophecy ends with the accomplishment of 6 things that Christ accomplished at the Cross, and with the prophecy of the Abomination of Desolation, which destroys the city and the sanctuary (70 AD).

You seem to be mixing the physical of the Old Covenant with the spiritual of the New Covenant. Understanding the differences between these two covenants is very critical in helping to unlock the truth of scripture.

Not at all. I simply have a different opinion than you do. There is no confusion at all on my part.

Perhaps you are confused about my reasoning here? What I said is that there is no complete division between the physical and the spiritual. It is not "one or the other."

The physical descendants promised to Abraham were to be spiritual as well. Otherwise, they were delegitimized. Similarly, when the covenant expanded to include other peoples and other nations, it excluded all who were unspiritual.

None of this excluded physical distinctions such as humanity, race, or nationality. It only excluded these things as a basis for a covenant relationship with God if they were not accompanied by faith.

It made no difference if you were a Jew under the Old Covenant if you kept the Law but did not have faith. It makes no difference if you're a Gentile Christian today, who goes to church, keeps the 10 Commandments, but don't walk in righteousness like Christ did. It is not enough to have physical characteristics that appear to be acceptable by God. One must also have faith.

None of the end-time prophecies teach on the physical destruction of the temple.

Dan 9 is *not* an "endtime prophecy!"

Those prophecies should be applied spiritually within a person. I'll try to explain.

The New Covenant of Grace through Faith is a spiritual covenant. This means that Christ's work occurs "within" mankind.

Both covenants, of Law and of Grace, were intended to be applied *internally.* The covenant of Law, however, could only be a "band-aid" solution. That is, it could apply only a temporary remedy, to keep Israel in good relations with God until Christ came and provided eternal redemption.

But there is no question that the Law, in speaking of Christ, was intended to cleanse internally, as well as through external ritual. The external ritual was intended to be performed as an act of internal obedience, which is what faith is.

All the prophecies of scripture which are left to be fulfilled are spiritual. This includes the last 3 1/2 weeks of Daniel's prophecy because the change from the Old Covenant to the New Covenant began at the cross in the "midst of the week".

Yes, the prophecy called for 70 *weeks*--not 490 days! The 70th Week was fulfilled as a half-week in my opinion. That's when Jesus died and completed the Messianic prophecies of redemption, leading to the decimation of Jerusalem and the temple.

 

[Truth7t7]

He "forsook" but it "pleased" Him to do so. Are you so prideful and blind to think He has and will do less regarding the Church, just as it is also written?

Your claim is "False"!

Psalm 9:10KJV
10 And they that know thy name will put their trust in thee: for thou, Lord, hast not forsaken them that seek thee.

Psalm 37:25KJV
25 I have been young, and now am old; yet have I not seen the righteous forsaken, nor his seed begging bread.

2 Corinthians 4:9KJV
9 Persecuted, but not forsaken; cast down, but not destroyed;

Hebrews 13:5KJV
5 Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.

 

[FaithWillDo]

"Oneness Pentecostalism/Jesus Name Only) the only sect that teaches such, why deny your foundational belief Is attached to this including the "Latter Rain"

Dear Truth7t7,

I do not believe baptism should be in Jesus name just because it is taught by the Pentecostal church. I believe it because it is taught in scripture.

As for the Latter Rain, the Pentecostal church and I are in complete disagreement. In fact, I spent two or three weeks discussing those differences with the leaders of a local congregation. Except for baptizing in the name of Jesus (as it should be done), we could not agree on anything else.

All the churches which I am aware of teach a false "Latter Rain". They use that name to give credibility to something that is nothing more than an emotion driven, carnal display of the flesh. The Spirit of God plays no part in it as they believe.

With a true Latter Rain experience, the truth of scripture will open up to the believer and they will spend a great deal of time studying and praying. Then, from the truth that they received, judgment will commence within them. It is a very private event for the believer and it will result in the believer removing themselves from their church in very short order. Light has no fellowship with darkness. It is at this time, the believer's household (brothers and sisters in their church) will become their enemies.

Mat 10:36 And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.

Paul said that after his departing, grievous wolves would enter the flock and spare no one (Acts 20:29). The wolves came under the influence of the spirit of anti-Christ and are still in control of the church to this day - just as Christ planned it to be. And when a new believer enters the fold today, they are, likewise, quickly devoured.

Joe

 

[FaithWillDo]

Not at all. I simply have a different opinion than you do. There is no confusion at all on my part.

Perhaps you are confused about my reasoning here? What I said is that there is no complete division between the physical and the spiritual. It is not "one or the other."

The physical descendants promised to Abraham were to be spiritual as well. Otherwise, they were delegitimized. Similarly, when the covenant expanded to include other peoples and other nations, it excluded all who were unspiritual.

None of this excluded physical distinctions such as humanity, race, or nationality. It only excluded these things as a basis for a covenant relationship with God if they were not accompanied by faith.

It made no difference if you were a Jew under the Old Covenant if you kept the Law but did not have faith. It makes no difference if you're a Gentile Christian today, who goes to church, keeps the 10 Commandments, but don't walk in righteousness like Christ did. It is not enough to have physical characteristics that appear to be acceptable by God. One must also have faith.

Dan 9 is *not* an "endtime prophecy!"

Both covenants, of Law and of Grace, were intended to be applied *internally.* The covenant of Law, however, could only be a "band-aid" solution. That is, it could apply only a temporary remedy, to keep Israel in good relations with God until Christ came and provided eternal redemption.

But there is no question that the Law, in speaking of Christ, was intended to cleanse internally, as well as through external ritual. The external ritual was intended to be performed as an act of internal obedience, which is what faith is.

Yes, the prophecy called for 70 *weeks*--not 490 days! The 70th Week was fulfilled as a half-week in my opinion. That's when Jesus died and completed the Messianic prophecies of redemption, leading to the decimation of Jerusalem and the temple.

Dear Randy Kluth,
Then you agree that only spiritual Jews will receive the promises, just as Paul said. The flesh counts for nothing. And since all mankind will become spiritual Jews, all mankind (including the physical Jews) will receive the promises.

Just one other point; Daniel's Prophecy is an "end-time" prophecy because it is fulfilled under the New Covenant by the work of Christ within a person. When Daniel's prophecy is fulfilled for a believer, the "ends of the ages" come upon them. Salvation is what happens at the ends of the ages. The Elect are saved now and have the ends of the ages come upon them first. Because of such, they are "First Fruits" of Christ's harvest of mankind.

1Cor 10:11 Now all these things happened to them as types, and have been written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the ages are come.

For everyone else, they will have to wait until the final age to experience the end and be harvested.

Joe

 

[Truth7t7]

Dear Truth7t7,

I do not believe baptism should be in Jesus name just because it is taught by the Pentecostal church. I believe it because it is taught in scripture.

As for the Latter Rain, the Pentecostal church and I are in complete disagreement. In fact, I spent two or three weeks discussing those differences with the leaders of a local congregation. Except for baptizing in the name of Jesus (as it should be done), we could not agree on anything else.

All the churches which I am aware of teach a false "Latter Rain". They use that name to give credibility to something that is nothing more than an emotion driven, carnal display of the flesh. The Spirit of God plays no part in it as they believe.

With a true Latter Rain experience, the truth of scripture will open up to the believer and they will spend a great deal of time studying and praying. Then, from the truth that they received, judgment will commence within them. It is a very private event for the believer and it will result in the believer removing themselves from their church in very short order. Light has no fellowship with darkness. It is at this time, the believer's household (brothers and sisters in their church) will become their enemies.

Mat 10:36 And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.

Paul said that after his departing, grievous wolves would enter the flock and spare no one (Acts 20:29). The wolves came under the influence of the spirit of anti-Christ and are still in control of the church to this day - just as Christ planned it to be. And when a new believer enters the fold today, they are, likewise, quickly devoured.

Joe

Baptism In (Jesus Name Only) & (Latter Rain) = "Oneness Pentecostalism" It's That Simple

You can deny it all you want, if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, is it a horse, big smiles!

Jesus Is The Lord

 

[Randy Kluth]

Dear Randy Kluth,
Then you agree that only spiritual Jews will receive the promises, just as Paul said. The flesh counts for nothing.

One must be careful here. When Paul says, "the flesh counts for nothing," he is speaking of the flesh acting independently from Christ. It cannot accomplish anything when doing something disconnected from Christ. No virtue will flow through independent human works.

That's all it's saying. It's not saying that physical characteristics, such as being Jewish, have no value under the Law. Paul completely explodes that idea by saying...

Rom 3.1 What advantage, then, is there in being a Jew, or what value is there in circumcision? 2 Much in every way!

And since all mankind will become spiritual Jews, all mankind (including the physical Jews) will receive the promises.

Nowhere are we told that "all mankind will become spiritual Jews."

Just one other point; Daniel's Prophecy is an "end-time" prophecy because it is fulfilled under the New Covenant by the work of Christ within a person.

That is not the definition of "endtime prophecy." It can be said, legitimately, that the endtimes in a sense began with Christ's 1st Coming. But normally, what we mean by endtime prophecy today is intended to refer to the last days in which Antichrist is revealed and Christ comes back a 2nd time at Armageddon. Dan 9 said nothing whatsoever about that.

 

[covenantee]

But you deny what the scriptures do say regarding what was already at work 2,000 years ago.

Verbatim quote please.

As for who God has "abandoned", you misunderstand. You say "abandon", but what did God allow to happen to Joseph, and even to Christ? He "forsook" but it "pleased" Him to do so. Are you so prideful and blind to think He has and will do less regarding the Church, just as it is also written?

He did abandon the apostate church, but preserved His True Church.

You seem to have overlooked the reference to the True Church in my post.

Ever heard of the Reformation?

 

[David in NJ]

How could Daniel 9:24 have been "fulfilled" when sin and evil is rampant in this world, and Satan continues to remain the "god of this world"? "Everlasting righteousness" on earth and in Israel means literally "everlasting righteousness".

At the same time I believe that FaithWillDo has made a bit of a mishmash of this prophecy also. For example this is totally incorrect: "In God’s eyes, the seed of Abraham is NOT his physical descendants." The very first time the Abrahamic Covenant is stated in Genesis 15, God specifically tells Abraham that his descendants will occupy the land between the Nile and the Euphrates. That is the future land of "Greater Israel".

So what we see here is just tons of confusion and a total mishmash. The reign of the Antichrist ("the prince that shall come") is not even mentioned, when the Bible specifically tells us that he will be assigned the first 3 1/2 years of Daniel's 70th week.

What is "Greater Israel" ?

Please define - Thank You

 

[covenantee]

What is "Greater Israel" ?

Please define - Thank You

That is the dispensational denial of Joshua 21:43.

 

[David in NJ]

That is the dispensational denial of Joshua 21:43.

"Thus the LORD gave Israel all the land He had sworn to give their fathers, and they took possession of it and settled in it."

Why is this being denied?

 

[covenantee]

"Thus the LORD gave Israel all the land He had sworn to give their fathers, and they took possession of it and settled in it."

Why is this being denied?

As one who does not deny it myself, I can't answer your question.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Hw long did God say he would give the descendents of abraham, Isaac and Jacob the land he promised to abraham, the land Abraham did not recieve himself..

 

[covenantee]

Hw long did God say he would give the descendents of abraham, Isaac and Jacob the land he promised to abraham, the land Abraham did not recieve himself..

There is not a single NT promise for physical Israel outside of Christ.

In God's New Will and Testament, all covenants and promises are fulfilled only in Christ, and in those who are in Christ.

The OT covenants and promises are the promissory clauses of God's Old Will and Testament, and they are both revoked and fulfilled in the promissory clauses of His New Will and Testament, written in the Blood of His Son Jesus Christ, the Divine Testator, coming into full force and effect upon His death.

If you have made your own Will and Testament, you will see that the very first clause states the following or its equivalent:

"I HEREBY REVOKE all former Wills and other testamentary dispositions by me at any time therefore made and declare this to be my Last Will and Testament."

This means that all former wills and testaments, and all of their promissory clauses in their entirety, are completely null and void. In their place, the promissory clauses of the current last new will and testament are the only ones in force and effect. Any promissory clause which appeared in the old will and testament, but does not appear in the new will and testament, is irrevocably null and void unless yet another new will and testament is made which re-includes it.

Thus we see:

Hebrews 9
15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

Hebrews 10
9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.

Hebrews 8
13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

God`s New Will and Testament is everlasting:

Hebrews 13
20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant.

There is none greater.

We see other new promissory clauses of the New Will and Testament in:

Matthew 21:33-45
In this parable, the son, who is identified as the heir, typifies Christ.

Galatians 3:16
Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

2 Corinthians 1:20
For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us.

Hebrews 1:1,2
1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

In them, we see that the Heir and Beneficiary is Christ alone, that all of the promises are affirmed and confirmed in Him, and that He is Heir of all things. All includes the OT land promises, the restoration promises, the blessings promises, and all else. There are no exceptions.

If you deny that God has appointed His Son alone as heir of all things, you declare God to be a liar.

His New Will and Testament contains even better promises:

Hebrews 8
6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

Such as:

Hebrews 11
16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

Additional promissory clauses in...:

Romans 8:16-17
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

Galatians 3:29
And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

...declare that we who are in Christ are joint heirs with Him.

But notice:

There are no promissory clauses for anyone, Jew or Gentile...

Who is not in Christ.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

There is not a single NT promise for physical Israel outside of Christ.

In God's New Will and Testament, all covenants and promises are fulfilled only in Christ, and in those who are in Christ.

The OT covenants and promises are the promissory clauses of God's Old Will and Testament, and they are both revoked and fulfilled in the promissory clauses of His New Will and Testament, written in the Blood of His Son Jesus Christ, the Divine Testator, coming into full force and effect upon His death.

If you have made your own Will and Testament, you will see that the very first clause states the following or its equivalent:

"I HEREBY REVOKE all former Wills and other testamentary dispositions by me at any time therefore made and declare this to be my Last Will and Testament."

This means that all former wills and testaments, and all of their promissory clauses in their entirety, are completely null and void. In their place, the promissory clauses of the current last new will and testament are the only ones in force and effect. Any promissory clause which appeared in the old will and testament, but does not appear in the new will and testament, is irrevocably null and void unless yet another new will and testament is made which re-includes it.

Thus we see:

Hebrews 9
15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

Hebrews 10
9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.

Hebrews 8
13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

God`s New Will and Testament is everlasting:

Hebrews 13
20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant.

There is none greater.

We see other new promissory clauses of the New Will and Testament in:

Matthew 21:33-45
In this parable, the son, who is identified as the heir, typifies Christ.

Galatians 3:16
Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

2 Corinthians 1:20
For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us.

Hebrews 1:1,2
1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

In them, we see that the Heir and Beneficiary is Christ alone, that all of the promises are affirmed and confirmed in Him, and that He is Heir of all things. All includes the OT land promises, the restoration promises, the blessings promises, and all else. There are no exceptions.

If you deny that God has appointed His Son alone as heir of all things, you declare God to be a liar.

His New Will and Testament contains even better promises:

Hebrews 8
6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

Such as:

Hebrews 11
16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

Additional promissory clauses in...:

Romans 8:16-17
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

Galatians 3:29
And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

...declare that we who are in Christ are joint heirs with Him.

But notice:

There are no promissory clauses for anyone, Jew or Gentile...

Who is not in Christ.

Rom 11 has to do with Israel

Rev shows Israel being restored

The nt is about the new covenant. From which there is no jew or greek. it does not negate the OT promises to physical Israel

 

[David in NJ]

There is not a single NT promise for physical Israel outside of Christ.

In God's New Will and Testament, all covenants and promises are fulfilled only in Christ, and in those who are in Christ.

The OT covenants and promises are the promissory clauses of God's Old Will and Testament, and they are both revoked and fulfilled in the promissory clauses of His New Will and Testament, written in the Blood of His Son Jesus Christ, the Divine Testator, coming into full force and effect upon His death.

If you have made your own Will and Testament, you will see that the very first clause states the following or its equivalent:

"I HEREBY REVOKE all former Wills and other testamentary dispositions by me at any time therefore made and declare this to be my Last Will and Testament."

This means that all former wills and testaments, and all of their promissory clauses in their entirety, are completely null and void. In their place, the promissory clauses of the current last new will and testament are the only ones in force and effect. Any promissory clause which appeared in the old will and testament, but does not appear in the new will and testament, is irrevocably null and void unless yet another new will and testament is made which re-includes it.

Thus we see:

Hebrews 9
15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

Hebrews 10
9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.

Hebrews 8
13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

God`s New Will and Testament is everlasting:

Hebrews 13
20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant.

There is none greater.

We see other new promissory clauses of the New Will and Testament in:

Matthew 21:33-45
In this parable, the son, who is identified as the heir, typifies Christ.

Galatians 3:16
Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

2 Corinthians 1:20
For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us.

Hebrews 1:1,2
1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

In them, we see that the Heir and Beneficiary is Christ alone, that all of the promises are affirmed and confirmed in Him, and that He is Heir of all things. All includes the OT land promises, the restoration promises, the blessings promises, and all else. There are no exceptions.

If you deny that God has appointed His Son alone as heir of all things, you declare God to be a liar.

His New Will and Testament contains even better promises:

Hebrews 8
6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

Such as:

Hebrews 11
16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

Additional promissory clauses in...:

Romans 8:16-17
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

Galatians 3:29
And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

...declare that we who are in Christ are joint heirs with Him.

But notice:

There are no promissory clauses for anyone, Jew or Gentile...

Who is not in Christ.

And this I say, that the law, which was four hundred and thirty years later, cannot annul the covenant that was confirmed before by God in Christ, that it should make the promise of no effect.
For if the inheritance is of the law, it is no longer of promise; but God gave it to Abraham by promise.

Question: Did God promise the physical land to the physical descendants of Abraham?

Secondly: In FULL AGREEMENT that we who are Christs Seed are also Abrahams SEED and heirs with Abraham.

Thirdly: In Christ there is no difference between Jew and Gentile for we are all sons of God = One SEED,

and finally = Understand, then, that those who are of faith are sons of Abraham.
The Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, and foretold the gospel to Abraham: “All nations will be blessed through you.”
So those who have faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith.

Conclusion: Any teaching that separates Jew from Gentile in Christ is heresy......

 

[Eternally Grateful]

And this I say, that the law, which was four hundred and thirty years later, cannot annul the covenant that was confirmed before by God in Christ, that it should make the promise of no effect.
For if the inheritance is of the law, it is no longer of promise; but God gave it to Abraham by promise.

Question: Did God promise the physical land to the physical descendants of Abraham?

Secondly: In FULL AGREEMENT that we who are Christs Seed are also Abrahams SEED and heirs with Abraham.

Thirdly: In Christ there is no difference between Jew and Gentile for we are all sons of God = One SEED,

and finally = Understand, then, that those who are of faith are sons of Abraham.
The Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, and foretold the gospel to Abraham: “All nations will be blessed through you.”
So those who have faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith.

Conclusion: Any teaching that separates Jew from Gentile in Christ is heresy......

Did God give a promise to Abraham, Isaac and jacob which had nothing to do with his other children or the gentiles?

Yes, God said in abraham shall all the nations of the earth be blessed.. In that, there is no jew or gentile. Slave or free, male or female.. etc etc

 

[David in NJ]

Did God give a promise to Abraham, Isaac and jacob which had nothing to do with his other children or the gentiles?

Yes, God said in abraham shall all the nations of the earth be blessed.. In that, there is no jew or gentile. Slave or free, male or female.. etc etc

When God said to Abraham "In you shall all nations be blessed" = this includes the nation of Israel.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

When God said to Abraham "In you shall all nations be blessed" = this includes the nation of Israel.

Yes

WHen God said to you and your descendents after you. I give this land as an ETERNAL gift.

He meant the national children of Abraham Issac and Jacob.

No one denies salvation is for all people

where the issue comes in is people saying God is done with national israel and his promise to them no longer stands..

 

[David in NJ]

Yes

WHen God said to you and your descendents after you. I give this land as an ETERNAL gift.

He meant the national children of Abraham Issac and Jacob.

No one denies salvation is for all people

where the issue comes in is people saying God is done with national israel and his promise to them no longer stands..

God is not done with the earthbound nation of Israel for Three Reasons.

#1 Romans 11:25-27

For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written:

“The Deliverer will come out of Zion,
And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob;
For this is My covenant with them,
When I take away their sins.”

#2 Matthew 23:37-39

O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing! See! Your house is left to you desolate; for I say to you, you shall see Me no more till you say, ‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord!’ ”

#3 Zechariah chapter 14 (short form)

Behold, the day of the Lord is coming,
And your spoil will be divided in your midst.
For I will gather all the nations to battle against Jerusalem

Then the Lord will go forth
And fight against those nations,
As He fights in the day of battle.
And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives,

Thus the Lord my God will come,
And all the saints with You.


Dear Brother beware of the lie of pre-trib rapture that separates Jew from Gentile in Christ, whereby it corrupts the Gospel, Romans, Galatians and Revelation

 

[ScottA]

From one who denies a future, literal, visible, second coming of Jesus Christ in the heavens

Jesus Is The Lord

Your claim is "False"!

Psalm 9:10KJV
10 And they that know thy name will put their trust in thee: for thou, Lord, hast not forsaken them that seek thee.

Psalm 37:25KJV
25 I have been young, and now am old; yet have I not seen the righteous forsaken, nor his seed begging bread.

2 Corinthians 4:9KJV
9 Persecuted, but not forsaken; cast down, but not destroyed;

Hebrews 13:5KJV
5 Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.

More unreconciled half-truth mockery. You'll get yours.

As it is written:

Matthew 27:46​

And about the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a loud voice, saying, “Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani?” that is, “My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?”​