The Two Witnesses

[rockytopva]

Enoch and Elijah have never died! They were both raptured away! Awaiting their return as the two witnesses! These guys have got to die for... it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: - Hebrews 9:27

By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.- Hebrews 11:5

And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven. - 2 Kings 2:11

[sup]3[/sup]And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth. [sup]4[/sup]These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.

[sup]5[/sup]And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.

[sup]6[/sup]These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.

[sup]7[/sup]And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

[sup]8[/sup]And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

[sup]9[/sup]And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.

[sup]10[/sup]And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.

[sup]11[/sup]And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.

[sup]12[/sup]And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.- Revelation 2:3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12

 

[Sugarhitman]

Problem is, Daniel was speaking of the sanctuary on earth (the temple in Jerusalem), and its host on earth, not the Heavenly.

And it grew up to the host of heaven; and it cast down [threw] some of the host and some of the stars to the ground, and trampled them.

His tail drew a third of the stars of heaven and threw them to the earth.

Clearly, these are the Angels...not humans. The stars the Dragon sweeps with his tail and throws to the earth..are not his followers....they are 1/3 of the loyal angels of God being defeated and trampled by the Rebel Angels. It makes perfect sense..and explains why the Beast succeeds in killling the Witnesses and the world boasting "“Who is like the beast? Who is able to make war with him?” God will allow this to happen for a short time.

 

[veteran]

Clearly, these are the Angels...not humans. The stars the Dragon sweeps with his tail and throws to the earth..are not his followers....they are 1/3 of the loyal angels of God being defeated and trampled by the Rebel Angels. It makes perfect sense..and explains why the Beast succeeds in killling the Witnesses and the world boasting "“Who is like the beast? Who is able to make war with him?” God will allow this to happen for a short time.

Wrongly assuming that God can be defeated period, especially in His Heavenly Abode, is grave error.


Rev 12:7-9
7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
(KJV)

Many seem to have been wrongly taught the Rev.12:7- 17 Scripture is already past history. It is not. It's about the Daniel Scripture we speak of.

His trampling of the sanctuary will be on earth, AFTER he loses that war in Heaven with Michael and his angels.

We were foretold about that time of his coming to trample the sanctuary in Rev.11, the chapter about God's two witnesses also...

Rev 11:1-2
1 And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.
2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.
(KJV)

That temple is called the "temple of God", but where is it? Well, where are the Gentile peoples? ON EARTH. That's pointing to a rebuilt temple in Jerusalem on earth where unsaved Gentiles will trample upon for a period of 42 months, which is the same time period the 'dragon' of Rev.13 is given power on the earth.

The Rev.12:3-4 event WAS past history, i.e., the time of Satan's original rebellion against God. That's when he drew 1/3 of the stars (angels) to earth with him. But this casting out of Rev.12:7 forward is about the tribulation timing, and is connected with Dan.12:1 when Michael stands up.

 

[Sugarhitman]

Wrongly assuming that God can be defeated period, especially in His Heavenly Abode, is grave error.


Rev 12:7-9
7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
(KJV)

Many seem to have been wrongly taught the Rev.12:7- 17 Scripture is already past history. It is not. It's about the Daniel Scripture we speak of.

His trampling of the sanctuary will be on earth, AFTER he loses that war in Heaven with Michael and his angels.

We were foretold about that time of his coming to trample the sanctuary in Rev.11, the chapter about God's two witnesses also...

Rev 11:1-2
1 And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.
2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.
(KJV)

That temple is called the "temple of God", but where is it? Well, where are the Gentile peoples? ON EARTH. That's pointing to a rebuilt temple in Jerusalem on earth where unsaved Gentiles will trample upon for a period of 42 months, which is the same time period the 'dragon' of Rev.13 is given power on the earth.

The Rev.12:3-4 event WAS past history, i.e., the time of Satan's original rebellion against God. That's when he drew 1/3 of the stars (angels) to earth with him. But this casting out of Rev.12:7 forward is about the tribulation timing, and is connected with Dan.12:1 when Michael stands up.

Wrongly assuming that God can be defeated period, especially in His Heavenly Abode, is grave error.

Who said anything about God being defeated? Some of the Angelic Host will be defeated by Satan's army.

Many seem to have been wrongly taught the Rev.12:7- 17 Scripture is already past history. It is not. It's about the Daniel Scripture we speak of.

His trampling of the sanctuary will be on earth, AFTER he loses that war in Heaven with Michael and his angels.

I agree it hasnt happened yet. Nor do I believe the 3rd of the angels being thrown to the earth are Satan's followers..but his Angelic foes. I also believe there will be a parallel war on earth and in Heaven.

That temple is called the "temple of God", but where is it? Well, where are the Gentile peoples? ON EARTH. That's pointing to a rebuilt temple in Jerusalem on earth where unsaved Gentiles will trample upon for a period of 42 months, which is the same time period the 'dragon' of Rev.13 is given power on the earth.

Yes, earthly Jerusalem will also be trampled as recorded in Luke 21. Lets look a Daniel again:

Out of one of them came another horn, which started small but grew in power to the south and to the east and towards the Beautiful Land. [sup]10[/sup] It grew until it reached the host of the heavens, and it threw some of the starry host down to the earth and trampled on them.

[sup]11[/sup] It set itself up to be as great as the Prince of the host; it took away the daily sacrifice from him, and the place of his sanctuary was brought low.

[sup]12[/sup] Because of rebellion, the host of the saints and the daily sacrifice were given over to it. It prospered in everything it did, and truth was thrown to the ground.

This is war in the heavens..not on earth. And the Beast's Angelic army will be successful for a short period.

How you have fallen from heaven, O morning star, son of the dawn! You have been cast down to the earth, you who once laid low the nations! [sup]13[/sup] You said in your heart, I will ascend to heaven; I will raise my throne above the stars [Angels] of God; I will sit enthroned on the mount of assembly, on the utmost heights of the sacred mountain.

[sup]14[/sup] I will ascend above the tops of the clouds; I will make myself like the Most High.

[sup]15[/sup] But you are brought down to the grave, to the depths of the pit.

Isa. 14:12

The great dragon was hurled down— that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him. [sup]10[/sup] Then I heard a loud voice in heaven say:

Now have come the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God, and the authority of his Christ. For the accuser of our brothers, who accuses them before our God day and night, has been hurled down.

[sup]11[/sup] They overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony; they did not love their lives so much as to shrink from death.

[sup]12[/sup] Therefore rejoice, you heavens and you who dwell in them! But woe to the earth and the sea, because the devil has gone down to you! He is filled with fury, because he knows that his time is short.

God will allow Satan and his angels success to test those in heaven...and us on the earth. Many Angels and humans will rebel...we are talking about the mother of all rebellions...and many of the Angelic hosts will fall...those stars being swept by Satan's tail are his foes. Indeed the Angelic Council is already rebelling:

For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the [Angelic] rulers, against the [Angelic] authorities, against the [Angelic] powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.

 

[veteran]

Who said anything about God being defeated? Some of the Angelic Host will be defeated by Satan's army.

You did, because that's the idea you're implying. There is no battle in Heaven written of that God's angelic host loses.

Let's go over the Dan.8 Scripture again...

Dan 8:9-12
9 And out of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land.

The subject is about that "little horn". What does that idea of his waxing toward the pleasant land mean? The phrase "which waxed" means to become great, to magnify, to lift up, etc., in the Hebrew. That pleasant land is a symbol for Jerusalem. That "little horn" is on earth doing that.

10 And it waxed great, even to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them.

He "cast down" that host of stars (angels) to the earth? (Hebrew erets = ground, the earth, country, land or soil). How can you not see that as a direct relation to the Rev.12:7-9 Scripture when Satan and his angels are cast down to the earth by Michael in the last days? The idea is about Satan trying to keep his place in Heaven where he is now, and Michael boots him out of the Heavenly dimension down to this earth; Satan will cause his angels to be cast down with him. And he will magnify himself as God when he gets here on earth, especially in Jerusalem where God said He has chosen to dwell forever.

11 Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of his sanctuary was cast down.

That's the pseudo Messiah our Lord Jesus warned us about in Matt.24:24, what some call the Antichrist. He is going to magnify himself above all, even above God in Heaven... WHEN? After he gets booted down to this earth. The Dan.11 Scripture about him is linked to this "little horn" working.

And "by him the daily sacrifice was taken away"? What's that event about, and where? It's to occur on earth, in Jerusalem. That's about the placing of the abomination that maketh desolate per Dan.11:31.

Dan 11:28-32
28 Then shall he return into his land with great riches; and his heart shall be against the holy covenant; and he shall do exploits, and return to his own land.
29 At the time appointed he shall return, and come toward the south; but it shall not be as the former, or as the latter.
30 For the ships of Chittim shall come against him: therefore he shall be grieved, and return, and have indignation against the holy covenant: so shall he do; he shall even return, and have intelligence with them that forsake the holy covenant.
31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.
32 And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries: but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits.
(KJV)

That's where that sanctuary of Dan.8:11 is, on earth.

Dan.8:12 And an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practised, and prospered.
(KJV)

There's that same event again about that false one ending the daily sacrifice and setting up the transgression of the abomination (an idol). Not in Heaven, but on earth, in Jerusalem.

 

[tgwprophet]

Thanks for your response.

And what do you think of the second point? For the sake of discussion and not concerning end time prophecy.

"since they are the only two men recorded whom never experienced physical death, and it made sense to me that that would be a requirement to share in Christ's physical death in order to share in His resurrection."

Do you think everyone needs to experience physical death in order to be identified with Christ? Will Enoch and Elijah need to experience death to be partakers in resurrection?

Allow me; The two witnesses need not be Enoch, Elijah nor Moses. According to scripture all men experience death... Well the 144,000 will not. Neither will the countess amount taken in the rapture, What about the Woman who gives birth to Jesus again... And if Enoch and Elijah are the two witnesses it means God took back his reward to them. Also where are the non-Jewish Prophets since we Christain believers are grafted on the vine. If Enoch and Elijah were sent to the Earth... exactly why would they be angry? They cannot do thier "job" unless they had felt the impact the world hads done. If they only did God's Work then it means Grace has had to stop.

Ok so one could say, "since it is appointed for all "men" to die... that the two witnesses must be females. The 144,00 sealed of God would then need to be females as well... - that fits because it says they are virgins. And, finally, those going in the raputre are also females.... hmmm.. So, Enoch and Elijh or Moses must give up their heritage of being Jewish as well as their gender? Jews do not reconize the two witnesses as being of their God so they must not appear to be Jewsih. I am pretty sure there is something about the All men are appointed to die... that we just don't understand rightly...

 

[veteran]

vet, I do not want to argue with you about this, I'm just pointing out several Scripture texts for you to consider.

So you think their flesh bodies have outlasted God's decree in the garden?
Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

And certainly their flesh bodies aren't in heaven: 1Co 15:50 " Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption." So where do you think their flesh bodies were being stored?

Yes, I agree, which is why I said we really cannot know just who they will be until they are manifest.

Allow me; The two witnesses need not be Enoch, Elijah nor Moses. According to scripture all men experience death... Well the 144,000 will not. Neither will the countess amount taken in the rapture, What about the Woman who gives birth to Jesus again... And if Enoch and Elijah are the two witnesses it means God took back his reward to them. Also where are the non-Jewish Prophets since we Christain believers are grafted on the vine. If Enoch and Elijah were sent to the Earth... exactly why would they be angry? They cannot do thier "job" unless they had felt the impact the world hads done. If they only did God's Work then it means Grace has had to stop.

Ok so one could say, "since it is appointed for all "men" to die... that the two witnesses must be females. The 144,00 sealed of God would then need to be females as well... - that fits because it says they are virgins. And, finally, those going in the raputre are also females.... hmmm.. So, Enoch and Elijh or Moses must give up their heritage of being Jewish as well as their gender? Jews do not reconize the two witnesses as being of their God so they must not appear to be Jewsih. I am pretty sure there is something about the All men are appointed to die... that we just don't understand rightly...

What rapture?

 

[popeye]

Elijah and John.

Elijah = the Jewish witness
John = the Christian witness

Elijah = Malachi 4:5 & 6
John = Rev 10:11

Their original bodies are ashes, but their spirits are eternal. Their spirits may assume a new body, born of a woman, in these end times,
and raised to adulthood before they witness.

 

[BibleScribe]

Allow me; The two witnesses need not be Enoch, Elijah nor Moses. According to scripture all men experience death... Well the 144,000 will not. Neither will the countess amount taken in the rapture, What about the Woman who gives birth to Jesus again... And if Enoch and Elijah are the two witnesses it means God took back his reward to them. Also where are the non-Jewish Prophets since we Christain believers are grafted on the vine. If Enoch and Elijah were sent to the Earth... exactly why would they be angry? They cannot do thier "job" unless they had felt the impact the world hads done. If they only did God's Work then it means Grace has had to stop.

Ok so one could say, "since it is appointed for all "men" to die... that the two witnesses must be females. The 144,00 sealed of God would then need to be females as well... - that fits because it says they are virgins. And, finally, those going in the raputre are also females.... hmmm.. So, Enoch and Elijh or Moses must give up their heritage of being Jewish as well as their gender? Jews do not reconize the two witnesses as being of their God so they must not appear to be Jewsih. I am pretty sure there is something about the All men are appointed to die... that we just don't understand rightly...

To All,

I'm somewhat bedazzled at the confused logic regarding something as simple as this determination. I guess all the information provided in Scripture is too deep for mere mortals to comprehend.

I believe some have correctly discerned the candidacy of these two Prophets, but the others might conclude that GOD is not a "tree hugger", for all the paper and ink expended on Scripture.

BibleScribe

 

[gregg]

i only know of two witnesses, the old testament and the new testament and 144,000 will cary the message,

 

[aspen]

I bet both the witnesses were treehuggers.......

 

[avoice]

Elijah and John.

Elijah = the Jewish witness
John = the Christian witness

Elijah = Malachi 4:5 & 6
John = Rev 10:11

Their original bodies are ashes, but their spirits are eternal. Their spirits may assume a new body, born of a woman, in these end times,
and raised to adulthood before they witness.

This would be my best guess also Popeye ...we may not know for sure until we see it
but If I was going to put money on it, so to speak, I would go with John and Elijah just as you say

 

[tomwebster]

To All,

I'm somewhat bedazzled at the confused logic regarding something as simple as this determination. I guess all the information provided in Scripture is too deep for mere mortals to comprehend.

I believe some have correctly discerned the candidacy of these two Prophets, but the others might conclude that GOD is not a "tree hugger", for all the paper and ink expended on Scripture.

BibleScribe

As usual you added nothing!

 

[popeye]

This would be my best guess also Popeye ...we may not know for sure until we see it
but If I was going to put money on it, so to speak, I would go with John and Elijah just as you say

You choose wisely, Avoice!....Probably because, like me, you believe what scripture states, and nothing else!

 

[tgwprophet]

[sup]Revelation 11:3[/sup] And I will give power to my two witnesses, and they will be clothed in burlap and will prophesy during those 1,260 days.”

Anyone have an opinion (or conviction if you have one) about who these two witnesses will be? One of my teachers believes it will be Moses and Elijah. That would make sense, since they were involved in a lot of the things the two witnesses will do.

My personal opinion is that it will be Enoch and Elijah, since they are the only two men recorded whom never experienced physical death, and it made sense to me that that would be a requirement to share in Christ's physical death in order to share in His resurrection. It would make sense if God saved these two righteous individuals for a specific mission he appointed just for this time.

Anyone have any other thoughts about it, or whether someone has a metaphorical viewpoint/whatever, or if it could be two random guys we never heard about.

Good question: Enoch and Elijah were rewarded... a gift one might say... Why not Moses or John the Baptist? - for the same reasons, that follow this... although Moses may have died or not, God does not take back gifts for continued goodness. Although I have read accounts that any believe they are of the Jewish ancestory... I would say they could be... but very far removed. Where are the Christain Prophets - mostly Gentile - yet Hebrew? Where is the proof that Christain Gentiles are grafted unto the vine? - yes! the Two Witnesses... Why will they not be accepted by the Jews who are opting toward the anti-christ that is the Beast instead. if they are Jewish, look Jewish have correct ancestory not far removed? The two witnesses were foretold in the old Testiment (Zach) and the new Testiment (REV). How do I know the Jews will not accept them.. Read what happens to thier city after the two witnesses are killed. One does not think that the Jews accepted them and for that God destroys a tenth of the city. (Maybe not God does it, but rather the two witnesses prophecey it before their death).

The two witnesses do not simply "pop" unto the earth ad begin their 1.260 days. For if they did that, then the reasons they did so many things that the world rejoyced and exchanged gifts at their demise, would al have to be attributed to God's Instruction... To instruct the two witnesses God would have to be ambigious and God is certainly not ambigous. See, God would have to stop GRACE to instruct the two witnesses. The two witnesses do their "will" (since in Revelation it states they do whatever manner of plagues they want), so for them to be willing THEY must have been born, lived and experienced the evil wicked ways of people and governments for themselves.
They were born already, they are alive today, they are Christains, they are "weak" and cn be harmed..just not kiled - yet. They do not appear "Jewish" and may not be Jewish without being far removed. They probably speak english, for most of the world will be able to understand their words or be readily translated. They won't be "from" Israel but mst likely from the worst country on the globe. A cooutnry that has polished itself to sparkle before the rest of the world yet inside is, well, lets say, alot less clean.

Oh, they are clothed in sackcloth... which is not necessarily burlap, it could be cotton, camel hair, actually quite a few diverse materials, although I do believe what they wear will not be "mixed' garments. Even further consideration is simply that their attire is black or very dark in color. Black was used for morning. Recent translations take well, lets say, 'artistic license" - for example; the Internation version claims outright that the Daily Sacrifice is committed at the same time as the Abomination of Desolation, yet the King James version simply tells the Beast does both. The problem with it being done at the same time is simple... in other prophecy it is told there is 1,290 days between the two events. The New International Version may be an "easier" read, but... OH - they are not random... God knew them before they were in the womb, I'm certain. Their is a lot of citerai that had to be met for them before their time starts. I understand what I have written seems to go against what has been taught thrught the ages... but consider this, if they fit into the stereotype given through the ages, they would be recognized and so their work could not be fulfilled except that God instructed them, eaning Grace has to stop before the Jews have received it...

 

[tomwebster]

Dan. 8
...

How can the Beast cast down the Sanctuary, and oppose the Daily Sacrifices in heaven without first defeating the Heavenly armies? And this is a clear picture of war in heaven...and he is seen here winning.
...

Satan is cast down because he WAS defeated. Being "cast down" is not a reward. And a battle between Satan and his army and Michael and his army, will continue to be fought right here on earth.

 

[tgwprophet]

Hi Gregg

We shoudl also consider the 144,00 their deaths are not recorded. And what about those "taken" in the rapture - they do not "taste" death either. So to believe in the rapture is to discredit the scripture claiming it is appointed for all men to die the first death. So now we have a multitude people without number who do not taste death. Maybe our understanding how these two scriptures are valid instead of conflicting merely survive in a place beyond our comprehension. Possibility their union has remained sealed as of yet.

Gregg said he only know about 2 witnesses - old and new testiment. I guess Gregg considers the plauges being those things foretold in Revelations as a product of the 2 witnesses. Therefore, Gregg do you then believe that Satan will kill the word of God (old and new testiment) for a period of 3 1/2 days? In the beginning was the Word... If Satan could kill the Word of God why cannot he not kill God also? To consider that the 2 witness are the Word defeats GRACE. Do you really think that Satan could possibly kill (possess) the Word of God yet not alter it for his benefit in 3 1/2 days? Who is God that Satan sould be able to destroy the Word of God? Is it your claim Satan can kll the Word of God for 3 1/2 days yet be unable to alter it though he possess it? You make a couple interesting points, though I am not in aggreement.

What about the elderly that always accepted Christ but are incapable of denying the Beast's Mark? How about the terminally ill, the weak , the mentally challenged and more... (ALL Believers) how will they be albe to maintain access to Heaven though Jesus although they could not deny the Mark? The Rature (being caught up) , (being spared the severity of Tribulation) serves a purpose.

 

[tgwprophet]

tomwebster wrote:

"Everyone seems to assume “a thousand two hundred and threescore days” is talking about a period of time when it’s not.
“A thousand two hundred and threescore days,” is the title of a message for the end days."

I see no creedence in your line of thought. Please elaborate.

------------------------------------------------------------

[email protected] wrote;
"Read on.

The tone of the passage is frightening.
These two men will be able to cause all sorts of mischief and will be universally hated.
So much so that their death will initiate a global celebration complete with gift exchange.

While meditating on this situation the question arose in my mind as to what I would do if they knocked on my front
door and asked for help.

My first reaction was to let them in. After I thought about it for a while, though I began to ask myself if that was such
a good idea after all. You see, these men will be vilified as the very messengers of the devil, despite any call to repentance
or Godly action. I imagine that there will be quite a lot of talk about them around the supper table every night.
None of it good, either.

So why would God send these guys to stir up the water, so to speak? Why not a pair of kind hearted nuns or something? "

What would you or anyone or everyone on this forum do if the Two Witnesses or even just one of them joined and told you who he is?
Would you instantly deny him/them? Would yout test him/them? How would you test him/them? Ask them to fulfill a test as that
of a prophet? That way would work, but only after the 1,260 days had started. How then would you test him/them before that time began?
Personally I think him/them (I will refer to just one from now on) would be cast out of the forum without any kind of test at all.
If him/they were tested and the words given did not match the reasoning a person here holds, I wonder if the validity of the witness
would be in jeopardy although he was correct. Strange, the Word tells us to beware of false prophets and tell us to accpet a prophet
is to receive a prophet's reward, with that premise I would think it would be much better to allow the "witness" to come forward
with whatever manner of proof he can provide and hold one's tongue until it can be completely understood that witness is actually a fraud.


Did John the Baptist not come in peace, thus paving the way of peace for the Lamb of God? When the "lion of God" comes
to rule - should not that "lion" have had a forewarning? Welcome to the reason the Two Witnesses do so many horrid things.
People are often prone to seek God when things are going bad in their life rather than when things are going good. The "job"
of the 2 witnesses are to wake the world up to the comming of Jesus. Both John the Baptist and Moses died, does this meant
they will die two deaths?


The 2 Witnesses are both warriors for God, yet the New Testament is a Book of Peace. So, do not expect the Book of Peace
to turn into a warrior, it would put the 2 witnesses at odds with each other. The Old Testament was one of war and victory,
but the new testament was one of peace and victory. The war and peace would conflict each other if they were joined
as the 2 witnesses. If the Old and New testaments were the two witnesses and the word is God... is Grace not destroyed?

 

[gregg]

tomwebster wrote:

"Everyone seems to assume “a thousand two hundred and threescore days” is talking about a period of time when it’s not.
“A thousand two hundred and threescore days,” is the title of a message for the end days."

I see no creedence in your line of thought. Please elaborate.

------------------------------------------------------------

[email protected] wrote;
"Read on.

The tone of the passage is frightening.
These two men will be able to cause all sorts of mischief and will be universally hated.
So much so that their death will initiate a global celebration complete with gift exchange.

While meditating on this situation the question arose in my mind as to what I would do if they knocked on my front
door and asked for help.

My first reaction was to let them in. After I thought about it for a while, though I began to ask myself if that was such
a good idea after all. You see, these men will be vilified as the very messengers of the devil, despite any call to repentance
or Godly action. I imagine that there will be quite a lot of talk about them around the supper table every night.
None of it good, either.

So why would God send these guys to stir up the water, so to speak? Why not a pair of kind hearted nuns or something? "

What would you or anyone or everyone on this forum do if the Two Witnesses or even just one of them joined and told you who he is?
Would you instantly deny him/them? Would yout test him/them? How would you test him/them? Ask them to fulfill a test as that
of a prophet? That way would work, but only after the 1,260 days had started. How then would you test him/them before that time began?
Personally I think him/them (I will refer to just one from now on) would be cast out of the forum without any kind of test at all.
If him/they were tested and the words given did not match the reasoning a person here holds, I wonder if the validity of the witness
would be in jeopardy although he was correct. Strange, the Word tells us to beware of false prophets and tell us to accpet a prophet
is to receive a prophet's reward, with that premise I would think it would be much better to allow the "witness" to come forward
with whatever manner of proof he can provide and hold one's tongue until it can be completely understood that witness is actually a fraud.


Did John the Baptist not come in peace, thus paving the way of peace for the Lamb of God? When the "lion of God" comes
to rule - should not that "lion" have had a forewarning? Welcome to the reason the Two Witnesses do so many horrid things.
People are often prone to seek God when things are going bad in their life rather than when things are going good. The "job"
of the 2 witnesses are to wake the world up to the comming of Jesus. Both John the Baptist and Moses died, does this meant
they will die two deaths?


The 2 Witnesses are both warriors for God, yet the New Testament is a Book of Peace. So, do not expect the Book of Peace
to turn into a warrior, it would put the 2 witnesses at odds with each other. The Old Testament was one of war and victory,
but the new testament was one of peace and victory. The war and peace would conflict each other if they were joined
as the 2 witnesses. If the Old and New testaments were the two witnesses and the word is God... is Grace not destroyed?

no. the old brought light to the new they both are good.mans actions brought the end results.do we not still use the old to learn about the new, yet grace is still here.

 

[BibleScribe]

As usual you added nothing!

Do you have a mirror?


BibleScribe