The Two Witnesses

[veteran]

tomwebster wrote:

"Everyone seems to assume “a thousand two hundred and threescore days” is talking about a period of time when it’s not.
“A thousand two hundred and threescore days,” is the title of a message for the end days."

I see no creedence in your line of thought. Please elaborate.

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[email protected] wrote;
"Read on.

The tone of the passage is frightening.
These two men will be able to cause all sorts of mischief and will be universally hated.
So much so that their death will initiate a global celebration complete with gift exchange.

While meditating on this situation the question arose in my mind as to what I would do if they knocked on my front
door and asked for help.

My first reaction was to let them in. After I thought about it for a while, though I began to ask myself if that was such
a good idea after all. You see, these men will be vilified as the very messengers of the devil, despite any call to repentance
or Godly action. I imagine that there will be quite a lot of talk about them around the supper table every night.
None of it good, either.

So why would God send these guys to stir up the water, so to speak? Why not a pair of kind hearted nuns or something? "

What would you or anyone or everyone on this forum do if the Two Witnesses or even just one of them joined and told you who he is?
Would you instantly deny him/them? Would yout test him/them? How would you test him/them? Ask them to fulfill a test as that
of a prophet? That way would work, but only after the 1,260 days had started. How then would you test him/them before that time began?
Personally I think him/them (I will refer to just one from now on) would be cast out of the forum without any kind of test at all.
If him/they were tested and the words given did not match the reasoning a person here holds, I wonder if the validity of the witness
would be in jeopardy although he was correct. Strange, the Word tells us to beware of false prophets and tell us to accpet a prophet
is to receive a prophet's reward, with that premise I would think it would be much better to allow the "witness" to come forward
with whatever manner of proof he can provide and hold one's tongue until it can be completely understood that witness is actually a fraud.


Did John the Baptist not come in peace, thus paving the way of peace for the Lamb of God? When the "lion of God" comes
to rule - should not that "lion" have had a forewarning? Welcome to the reason the Two Witnesses do so many horrid things.
People are often prone to seek God when things are going bad in their life rather than when things are going good. The "job"
of the 2 witnesses are to wake the world up to the comming of Jesus. Both John the Baptist and Moses died, does this meant
they will die two deaths?


The 2 Witnesses are both warriors for God, yet the New Testament is a Book of Peace. So, do not expect the Book of Peace
to turn into a warrior, it would put the 2 witnesses at odds with each other. The Old Testament was one of war and victory,
but the new testament was one of peace and victory. The war and peace would conflict each other if they were joined
as the 2 witnesses. If the Old and New testaments were the two witnesses and the word is God... is Grace not destroyed?

Too much speculation, getting away from the Scripture Message of their purpose for the last days.

The two witnesses parallel the ministries of Elijah, Moses and Aaron. In the last verses of the OT in Malachi, God promised He would send Elijah before the great and dreadful day of The LORD. If Israel in Jerusalem had accepted Christ at His first coming, then John the Baptist would have served as coming in the spirit of Elijah to fulfill that Malachi 4 Scripture. But both John and our Lord Jesus were refused, putting the Kingdom in abeyance.

The reason the ministries of Elijah, Moses and Aaron are wrapped into the work the "two witnesses" are given to do, is because the endtime Babylon is being compared to Egypt when God sent Moses to help free the children of Israel from that captivity.

Jer 16:14-15
14 Therefore, behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that it shall no more be said, The LORD liveth, That brought up the children of Israel out of the land of Egypt;
15 But, The LORD liveth, That brought up the children of Israel from the land of the north, and from all the lands whither he had driven them: and I will bring them again into their land that I gave unto their fathers.
(KJV)

 

[tgwprophet]

no. the old brought light to the new they both are good.mans actions brought the end results.do we not still use the old to learn about the new, yet grace is still here.

Gregg, Is it your contention the 2 witnesses are symbolic - The Word? If so, it is an interesting concept.

Yet, the scriputres clearly state they will do all manners of plagues, that fire will proceed from their mouth to devour anyone harming them. They shall stop the rain att their will during the time appointed them. That referece of time validates, to a certain amount, the 1,260 days. Lets us consider that during this 1,260 days that we have two witnesses of one mind but opposed in values? Instead consider we have two witnesses nearly of one mind and alike in values, 2 real people, real witnesses... Consider that During the 1,260 days, if the 2 witesses were not people but rather the Word then God's word, God's will would be carried out with direct link and total control "of" God... this is how it would have to stop grace. Is it your claim God "can' do both at the same time... give grace and attack? The 2 witnesses are given "freewill" to do their "will" as they experienced life on earth prior to their time of power. It is "their" distain the world is not immune to, yet grace is still in perfect psition and secure. Not sure how soon, but I will validate my contention.

 

[tgwprophet]

Too much speculation, getting away from the Scripture Message of their purpose for the last days.

The two witnesses parallel the ministries of Elijah, Moses and Aaron. In the last verses of the OT in Malachi, God promised He would send Elijah before the great and dreadful day of The LORD. If Israel in Jerusalem had accepted Christ at His first coming, then John the Baptist would have served as coming in the spirit of Elijah to fulfill that Malachi 4 Scripture. But both John and our Lord Jesus were refused, putting the Kingdom in abeyance.

Ok, the purpose is to wake the world up...not in a peaceful manner, as Jesus already did, the 2 witnesses could not do any where near as good of a job. The 2 witnesses will be here to "shake" the people up, to "slap" them around. One sends warriors to clear the way of a Lion, not shepards. Why not take Revelation chapter 11 literally? Look around, this world has become so corrupt inside and out it needs to be given a good thrashing before Jesus comes to take charge. Elijah could easily be sent before the dreadful day but not being sent for 1,260 days. His comming and ministry could easily be one to assist in the acceptance of the Jews, yet not be one off the 2 witnesses. Remeber the Jews will not accept the 2 witnesses, which is why a tenth of the city is destroyed.

 

[popeye]

Why not take Revelation chapter 11 literally?

I agree here. "Their dead bodies lie in the streets of Jerusalem..."....That's pretty "literal" by any standard....

And I agree with what Terry is saying, except to add: The 2 witnesses testimony FOLLOW AFTER the first horseman and his end times ministry ( who emerges onto the world scene well before the 2 witnesses ). Indeed, Rev 10:8 & 9 show that one of those 2 witnesses may very well be John, who receives a book from the incarnate angel of Rev 10, and "must prophesy again" ( Rev 10:11 )

 

[veteran]

Ok, the purpose is to wake the world up...not in a peaceful manner, as Jesus already did, the 2 witnesses could not do any where near as good of a job. The 2 witnesses will be here to "shake" the people up, to "slap" them around. One sends warriors to clear the way of a Lion, not shepards. Why not take Revelation chapter 11 literally? Look around, this world has become so corrupt inside and out it needs to be given a good thrashing before Jesus comes to take charge. Elijah could easily be sent before the dreadful day but not being sent for 1,260 days. His comming and ministry could easily be one to assist in the acceptance of the Jews, yet not be one off the 2 witnesses. Remeber the Jews will not accept the 2 witnesses, which is why a tenth of the city is destroyed.

I do take Rev.11 literally. I believe that Scripture declares two individual witnesses coming to Jerusalem that will be killed by Satan, and their dead bodies left laying the street (plaza per Greek) for 3 days and 1/2, and then will arise (resurrected).

But that two witnesses message also mentions the idea of two candlesticks, and our Lord Jesus declared the candlesticks represent the seven Churches. That's pointing to two Churches being joined with what those two individuals will be doing in Jerusalem.

Elijah's ministry involved God raining fire down from Heaven through him, and great witness against the prophets of Baal. Lot of the plagues from the vials parallel the plagues upon Egypt God worked through Moses and Aaron. So the two witnesses are going to literally being doing many of those things against the 'beast' during their 1260 days. Like you said, the world will rejoice to see them killed and laying in the street because of the trouble they will cause upon the world beast kingdom and its head.

The 1260 days of their time of prophesy is a literal time marker, but now, since Christ shortened the actual tribulation time, it now serves as a representative event marker in relation to the 42 months of Rev.11, the same 42 months mentioned in Rev.13 that the dragon is to work.

 

[tgwprophet]

i only know of two witnesses, the old testament and the new testament and 144,000 will cary the message,

" i only know of two...then u add 144,00? and you cannot add two more?

The two witnesses are men. They experienced the ways of the world as it i prior to their appointed time. They do any manner of plague as they can conceive.
They are here already. They are not yet given power, but the second hand is ticking. The multitude of information contained in God's Word has addled the learning of those wantimg even more information... funny, as that is the same way as before. The anti-christ will wish he could defeat them, but alas, he cannot... it will take Satan. Satan will take over the body of the anti-christ when he is cast down at the abomination of desolation, when the temple is polluted (the very reason it needs cleansed), this explains why the anti-chirst is in need of an image and from where the "life" comes that Satan gives that image.

This scenerio gives creeedence to actual people and events. Wen the Word of God spoke of the first coming of Jesus, I wonder how many thought it wasa a metaphor?
Jesus came as a man he lived as a man, he was indeed God made manifest. Will he be given a second birth or is that a metaphor...lol. I wonnder how many will be asking for clarification on these understandings after the fact and how many will see how simple is was and how they overlooked that simplicity because of the intnese amount of kowledege given hid the correct understanding? It is our feeble minds complicating simple understanding to the point of sealing the corect understanding of Revelation and Tribulation in so much as the "wolrd" will not recognize the two witnesses.

 

[tgwprophet]

Yes, I agree, which is why I said we really cannot know just who they will be until they are manifest.

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What rapture?

I understand the word "rapture" is not recorded in the Bible, yet the account many has labled as a "rapture" is and I agree with that. So allow me to elaborate a little. There are many "believers" lapsing a moment of mental alertness wasting away in prisons accross the globe. They will not be able to deny he Mark of the Beast. There are elderly and weak and crippled who will also not be able to deny the mark of the beast. IF, all of a sudden everyone in a coma "woke up," all the elderly lost their deminsia, all the crippled became strong, all the... i think you get it by now... then the "world" would recogonize there must be a God... All the atheists would have alot of re-thinking, and many would accept Christ for pure preservation. However... if a rapture occured (and understand this... though it happens in the twikling of an eye... it perhaps does not happen for everyone at the same time.. only in the same time frame. (Jan is taken today, Ralph was taken last week)- now I have not spent alot of time on that thought. A Rapture certainly has more than just a purpose it has a just purpose.

 

[veteran]

I understand the word "rapture" is not recorded in the Bible, yet the account many has labled as a "rapture" is and I agree with that. So allow me to elaborate a little. There are many "believers" lapsing a moment of mental alertness wasting away in prisons accross the globe. They will not be able to deny he Mark of the Beast. There are elderly and weak and crippled who will also not be able to deny the mark of the beast. IF, all of a sudden everyone in a coma "woke up," all the elderly lost their deminsia, all the crippled became strong, all the... i think you get it by now... then the "world" would recogonize there must be a God... All the atheists would have alot of re-thinking, and many would accept Christ for pure preservation. However... if a rapture occured (and understand this... though it happens in the twikling of an eye... it perhaps does not happen for everyone at the same time.. only in the same time frame. (Jan is taken today, Ralph was taken last week)- now I have not spent alot of time on that thought. A Rapture certainly has more than just a purpose it has a just purpose.

The word rapture actually comes from the Latin rendering of Greek 'harpazo' which the KJV translation renders as "caught up". None of those words by themselves are enough to Biblically define the event. All relevant Scripture about the event must be included. Men's traditions rarely do that, but instead leave out a lot of the relevant Bible Scripture.

The change at the twinkling of an eye which Apostle Paul spoke of comes from a teaching in the OT prophets in Isaiah 25. That's where he was quoting the death swallowed up in victory idea from. Per Isaiah 25, everyone still alive on the earth is going be changed at that event.

Concerning the "mark of the beast", it is a spiritual mark mainly, in the mind (forehead) and doing its works (in the right hand). I'm not denying the possibility of a physical mark required to buy and sell. But the Biblical pattern are the days of Daniel and the gold idol of Neb everyone was commanded to bow in worship to. Daniel and his fellows refused to bow in worship to it. And that's the same type of event per Rev.13:15, that those who refuse to worship the beast image should be killed. It means one must bow in worship willingly by choice, not forced. I don't see that mark to buy and sell associated with those who refuse to bow in worship to the image of the beast, but for those who do willingly bow to it.

 

[veteran]

Ok, the purpose is to wake the world up...not in a peaceful manner, as Jesus already did, the 2 witnesses could not do any where near as good of a job. The 2 witnesses will be here to "shake" the people up, to "slap" them around. One sends warriors to clear the way of a Lion, not shepards. Why not take Revelation chapter 11 literally? Look around, this world has become so corrupt inside and out it needs to be given a good thrashing before Jesus comes to take charge. Elijah could easily be sent before the dreadful day but not being sent for 1,260 days. His comming and ministry could easily be one to assist in the acceptance of the Jews, yet not be one off the 2 witnesses. Remeber the Jews will not accept the 2 witnesses, which is why a tenth of the city is destroyed.

I don't understand why you would think God's two witnesses won't be enough to shake the beast system up in that time? I don't necessarily believe Elijah will be one of the two witnesses, but I do believe there will be two literal men as those witnesses. Study Acts 2 and compare where Peter quoted from Joel 2. The Joel 2 Scripture he quoted is about a prophecy for the tribulation time, not Peter's days. Peter was saying the cloven tongue of Pentecost was only an 'example' of the Joel 2 prophecy, meaning, the Joel 2 prophecy was still yet to occur.

The specific witness God's two witnesses will give against the world beast is a Testimony by The Holy Spirit directly from God through His witnesses. Not only by those two men in Jerusalem, but also through the two candlesticks that are mentioned with them in Rev.11. The candlesticks represent the Churches, so that means Christ's elect within two Church types are going to be delivered up to give that Testimony too. That's what Christ was talking about to His concerning being delivered up and to not premeditate what you will say in that "hour", but speak what The Holy Spirit gives you to say. That's the cloven tongue event of Joel 2 for the tribulation time. Those will give that Witness within all nations, so it's not only about Jerusalem.

The majority today are already well deceived about the coming world beast kingdom over all peoples and nations for that time, and how it's going to be about world peace instead of WWIII. All the world's religions will be joined under one head (including mainstream Christianity), and those who remain faithful to Christ Jesus in His Word are not going to be popular even with their deceived Christian brethren, nor with the deceived in their own families. This division has already begun today, and it can be seen right here on this Forum by the apostasy some are already in. So God's Witness through His servants in that time is really going to be a shock upon the beast system. Christ said even the gainsayers won't be able to resist what is said in that hour. That's going to upset the great deceptions by the Antichrist; he won't like it, and that event might be what will cause him to bring the armies out of the northern quarters upon Israel to initiate the battle of Armageddon which will end the tribulation with Christ's coming.

 

[revturmoil]

All the world's religions will be joined under one head (including mainstream
Christianity),

How about some concrete scriptural evidence for the above statement.

 

[veteran]

How about some concrete scriptural evidence for the above statement.

Why, so you can try to attack the Scripture as written? Go ahead, try...

II Th 2:3-4
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
(KJV)

 

[revturmoil]

Why, so you can try to attack the Scripture as written? Go ahead, try...

II Th 2:3-4
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
(KJV)

What are you talking about??? I ask you for concrete scriptural evidence about a one world religion and you say...

Why, so you can try to attack the Scripture as written?

What kind of comment is that?

II Th 2:3-4
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

You think that verse supports your comment that...

All the world's religions will be joined under one head (including mainstream
Christianity),

And you're accusing me of attacking the scriptures?

How about trying again! This time try not to quote scripture out of context. If your trying to prove a one world religion then I'm sure there's at least ONE verse 'in context' that supports it!

But I say. A united global religion is a false teaching! There's not one verse that supports it!

But have at it! Try again!

 

[Comm.Arnold]

They will probably be two new biblical figures and they will make up an even newer bible.

 

[revturmoil]

They will probably be two new biblical figures and they will make up an even newer bible.

The devils bible is already written. It's called the koran. The devils end-time religion is Islam.

There are 18 Arab countries currently in revolt/rebellion and I say it is the apostasy of 2 Thes. 2. This apostasy will create such a void in the Middle-East that it will reveal the Islamic anti-christ (the evil dajjal) otherwise known as the man of sin. I have had this argument with veteran, before but my understanding of 2 Thes. 2:5 is that 'a rebellion' is what Paul had already told the Thessalonian's is what is holding back the revelation of the man of sin.

Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God’s temple, proclaiming himself to be God.
Don’t you remember that when I was with you I used to tell you these things? And now you know what is holding him back, so that he may be revealed at the proper time.

The Mahdi is likely the false prophet. The evil dajjal otherwise known as the Islamic anti-christ (if you will) is also the biblical anti-christ.

It's illogical to assume that any man would have the political or religious power to unite the worlds religions or unite the worlds governments.

The prophecy experts have millions of Christians deceived into believing a prophetic scenario that will never come to pass.

 

[LambOfChrist]

Wow. Dos anyone ever pray for revelation before they start talking? Don't you guys know that we will be judged on every word that we speak?
I don't know who the 2 witnesses are but when I pray I believe the Lord says that they are 2 men, not women, who are alive today and being prepared for this purpose. These 2 are not overcome by the religious doctrines that so confuse the church today. They know who the real beast is who comes and sits in the temple at the end. There witness is to set doctrine strait and will witness against those who occupy the temple for the last 42 months of time before Christ returns. And those who would harm them will suffer the curse that they speak just as the children who taunted Elijah suffered at his rebuke. These are not the jokers that we see in most churches today who speak their own thoughts with a little of the word mixed in to make the simple follow them.
They are measuring those who worship in the temple. During the final 42 months this will be the apostate church with their idol of the mother of our Lord. This is Mystery Babylon who worships the blood of the saints. She reigns over the 7 Heads of Rev 13 along side the Beast who has 10 horns, Islam. The beast hates her just as Islam hates the Christians, and when Radical Muslims replace moderates in the last hour, they will kill her with fire in one hour.
This beast, Islam, is not the final beast from the pit The mark of Islam is the mark that the beast in Rev 13. When Jihad is called all who refuse the mark (Which is properly translated "Allah is Lord") will not be able to buy or sell and will be killed. However, according to Rev 9 the locust army of the beast who comes from the pit will sting all of those who have the mark. This proves the beast from the pit is not the same as the beast with 10 horns. Muslims would never sit in the Jewish temple and would never proclaim they are God. This goes against their Qur'an. This final beast is only here for the final 5 months. This beast literally rises from beneath the earth just as the bible says. He believes he is God because he has lived for 2000 years beneath. He will sit in the temple and cast down the idol of the mother of Jesus. His identity will not be revealed until he ascends from his lair, forced out when an asteroid hits here and puts the light out in his kingdom.
When Jesus comes he will be forced back into the hole from which he came along with the false prophet. Alive!
I know this because this is what the bible says and I understand it.

 

[revturmoil]

Wow. Dos anyone ever pray for revelation before they start talking? Don't you guys know that we will be judged on every word that we speak?
I don't know who the 2 witnesses are but when I pray I believe the Lord says that they are 2 men, not women, who are alive today and being prepared for this purpose. These 2 are not overcome by the religious doctrines that so confuse the church today. They know who the real beast is who comes and sits in the temple at the end. There witness is to set doctrine strait and will witness against those who occupy the temple for the last 42 months of time before Christ returns. And those who would harm them will suffer the curse that they speak just as the children who taunted Elijah suffered at his rebuke. These are not the jokers that we see in most churches today who speak their own thoughts with a little of the word mixed in to make the simple follow them.
They are measuring those who worship in the temple. During the final 42 months this will be the apostate church with their idol of the mother of our Lord. This is Mystery Babylon who worships the blood of the saints. She reigns over the 7 Heads of Rev 13 along side the Beast who has 10 horns, Islam. The beast hates her just as Islam hates the Christians, and when Radical Muslims replace moderates in the last hour, they will kill her with fire in one hour.
This beast, Islam, is not the final beast from the pit The mark of Islam is the mark that the beast in Rev 13. When Jihad is called all who refuse the mark (Which is properly translated "Allah is Lord") will not be able to buy or sell and will be killed. However, according to Rev 9 the locust army of the beast who comes from the pit will sting all of those who have the mark. This proves the beast from the pit is not the same as the beast with 10 horns. Muslims would never sit in the Jewish temple and would never proclaim they are God. This goes against their Qur'an. This final beast is only here for the final 5 months. This beast literally rises from beneath the earth just as the bible says. He believes he is God because he has lived for 2000 years beneath. He will sit in the temple and cast down the idol of the mother of Jesus. His identity will not be revealed until he ascends from his lair, forced out when an asteroid hits here and puts the light out in his kingdom.
When Jesus comes he will be forced back into the hole from which he came along with the false prophet. Alive!
I know this because this is what the bible says and I understand it.

I pretty much agree with you.

The man of sin will authenticate himself as the abomination...not in a rebuilt temple, but in the Dome of the Rock or Al'Aqsa mosque.

 

[LambOfChrist]

The rapture is very real if you understand the word rapture according to Webster's Dictionary. However, it does not give a very accurate description. Webster says it is a emotional state of mind in which intense joy, love etc. possesses the mind to the exclusion of every other emotion or consideration.
How can you get this wrong?
1Co 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
1Co 15:43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
1Co 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. (two bodies in one)
1Co 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
1Co 15:46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
1Co 15:47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
1Co 15:48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
1Co 15:49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
1Co 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1Co 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
1Co 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
1Co 15:55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
1Co 15:56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
1Co 15:57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
1Co 15:58 Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.
In the full context of 11 Corinthians this flesh will be changed into an immortal being and then:
Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
in the clouds in the air
Unless you become as a child you will never understand

 

[Prentis]

The rapture is very real if you understand the word rapture according to Webster's Dictionary. However, it does not give a very accurate description. Webster says it is a emotional state of mind in which intense joy, love etc. possesses the mind to the exclusion of every other emotion or consideration.
How can you get this wrong?
1Co 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
1Co 15:43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
1Co 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. (two bodies in one)
1Co 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
1Co 15:46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
1Co 15:47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
1Co 15:48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
1Co 15:49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
1Co 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1Co 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
1Co 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
1Co 15:55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
1Co 15:56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
1Co 15:57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
1Co 15:58 Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.
In the full context of 11 Corinthians this flesh will be changed into an immortal being and then:
Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
in the clouds in the air
Unless you become as a child you will never understand

Could you help me understand what point you're making? I don't quite get it...

 

[LambOfChrist]

My point is that the Rapture is very real. If you read the posts above you will find one who argues that there is no rapture. I am giving scripture that says there is so we don't have to worry about this one who doesn't see it. I also hope that he will read this and realize that our hope is the rapture. When the earth is cleansed in fire at the end of Christ's millennial reign only those who are spirit will remain. All flesh will be burned away. He argues that we will not be caught up in the rapture, however, scripture says we will. He needs to come into agreement to scripture.
Sorry about that.
Is my point clear now?

 

[tomwebster]

My point is that the Rapture is very real. If you read the posts above you will find one who argues that there is no rapture. I am giving scripture that says there is so we don't have to worry about this one who doesn't see it. I also hope that he will read this and realize that our hope is the rapture. When the earth is cleansed in fire at the end of Christ's millennial reign only those who are spirit will remain. All flesh will be burned away. He argues that we will not be caught up in the rapture, however, scripture says we will. He needs to come into agreement to scripture.
Sorry about that.
Is my point clear now?

The Sriptures you quoted have been discussed on this forum many, many times and they are still not talking about any "rapture." No RAPTURE!