The Unforgiveable Sin - who is God warning?

[ncsojourner]

(kriss;43736)
If you bother to read the verse's you will see that they even appear to contradict themselvesMar 3:28 Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme: --------------------------------------------------------------------------------Mar 3:29 But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation: How can you be forgiven from all and be condemed to eternal damnation??
There is no contradiction in the Greek. cf Mt 12:31When the Greek word 1161 de {deh}, translated But in vs 29, introduces a sentence it is all most all ways rendered as an adversative conjunction. They generally mark a contrast and an other wise hidden opposition."Strictly speaking it is incorrect to call an ancient Israelite a "Jew" or to call a contemporary Jew an Israelite or a Hebrew." 1980 Jewish Almanac, P.3Gary

 

[Christina]

Are you joking me there is no contradiction between Eternal damnation and forgiven get a new Book

 

[ncsojourner]

(kriss;43796)
Are you joking me there is no contradiction between Eternal damnation and forgiven get a new Book
Well, it sure isn't hard to prove.Matthew 27:3 3 Then Judas, which had betrayed him, when he saw that he was condemned, repented himself, and brought again the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders,Exodus 20:13 Thou shalt not kill. In case you are wondering Ex 20:13 is the sixth commandment.It also requires repentance to be forgiven. I would like to knowhow one can repent from murdering themselves.Also, if you read the scripture it says he "repented himself". Would like to know how that is done also. "Strictly speaking it is incorrect to call an ancient Israelite a "Jew" or to call a contemporary Jew an Israelite or a Hebrew." 1980 Jewish Almanac, P.3Gary

 

[Super Kal]

I'm still a little confused as to the unforgivable sin... so is ti a sin that an individual can commit today, or was it an act that the church committed?...ugh, this is all very confusing...

 

[setfree]

(Super Kal;43833)
I'm still a little confused as to the unforgivable sin... so is ti a sin that an individual can commit today, or was it an act that the church committed?...ugh, this is all very confusing...
I believe it is a sin we can commit today or Jesus would not have warned the Pharisees. He said I say unto you, speaking to the pharisees. I do not see that he was speaking to his disciples warning of the end times happenings. The pharisees had just said that His healing was from satan. What the Holy Spirit did through Jesus, they gave credit to Satan. To say there is no Holy Spirit or his power, is to blaspheme(slander, detraction, speech unjurious to anothers good name). When you say there is no Holy Spirit working today you blaspheme His name. The unforgiveness comes when you deny the work of the Holy Spirit. If you do this there is no salvation(forgiveness), without the Holy Spirit. Jesus died that we may enter into salvation, without his sacrifice on the cross there would be no salvation. Unless His spirit draws(convicts) you to Jesus you can not be saved.This is how I understand blaspheme the Holy Spirit. So in light of this, yes, you will know when you blasheme because you reject the Holy Spirit and His power.

 

[Christina]

(Super Kal;43833)
I'm still a little confused as to the unforgivable sin... so is ti a sin that an individual can commit today, or was it an act that the church committed?...ugh, this is all very confusing...
Super kal I will tell you reguardless of all these opinions scripture is very clear it can not be comited today we are plainley told all blasphemies of men will be forgiven, period the end, as long as Grace is in effect there is no unforgivable sin possable. Christ died for all sin even blaspheme. as he saysThe unforgivable sin can only be commited by one who has been given the full knowledge of God through the Holy spirit as happened on Penecost day Acts 2 when the elect are put on trial by Antichrist in Mark 13 they are told not to premeditate what they will say because the Holy spirit(God) will come and speak through them if one denys this it is a blashpemy that will bring eternal damnation. Why because they will know the truth of God as he will show them God would never damn anyone to eternal damnation without giving them first his full knowledge. this is the truth reguardless of what others guess at this is what scripture says Denver is soon going to have a study on this so watch for it.

 

[Christina]

(ncsojourner;43810)
Well, it sure isn't hard to prove.Matthew 27:3 3 Then Judas, which had betrayed him, when he saw that he was condemned, repented himself, and brought again the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders,Exodus 20:13 Thou shalt not kill. In case you are wondering Ex 20:13 is the sixth commandment.It also requires repentance to be forgiven. I would like to knowhow one can repent from murdering themselves.Also, if you read the scripture it says he "repented himself". Would like to know how that is done also. "Strictly speaking it is incorrect to call an ancient Israelite a "Jew" or to call a contemporary Jew an Israelite or a Hebrew." 1980 Jewish Almanac, P.3Gary
I have no clue what you are talking about but it has absoultly nothing to do with the unforgivableable sin.

 

[setfree]

(kriss;43907)
Its not my oipnion thats the difference its what the scriptures says if you read it. on the other hand your post is just your opinionor present scripture to back up your opinion I have presented scripture in my above posts but I will be happy to repost them for youThe subject in this chapter is the things that will happen in the End days as Jesus spoke to the aspostels4Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign when all these things shall be fulfilled? 8For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be earthquakes in divers places, and there shall be famines and troubles: these are the beginnings of sorrows. 9But take heed to yourselves: for they shall deliver you up to councils; and in the synagogues ye shall be beaten: and ye shall be brought before rulers and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them. 11But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost. So the question is when does he tell us the holy spirit/ghost comes on us in these End timesMat 12:31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy [against] the [Holy] Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.
I do not see this verse 4 quote in chapter 12 of Matt. How is it in context to what the chapter is speaking of?

 

[Christina]

Its in matt. 24 when the aspostles ask Jesus what the signs of the End will be

 

[setfree]

(kriss;43925)
Its in matt. 24 when the aspostles ask Jesus what the signs of the End will be
But in this chapter it does not say anything about the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost.

 

[Christina]

Mark 13 sorry setfree both chapters are talking about the same thing

 

[setfree]

The sin of blasheming the Holy Spirit in Matt.12, this sin is committed by unbelievers. It has no forgiveness because it is unbelief in the power of God. The pharisees were the enemy of God.There is also resisting(strive against, oppose) the Holy Spirit (Acts 7:51) This is committd by the unbeliever when he rejects Jesus as Saviour and Lord.Grieving(cause grief) the Spirit(Eph.4:30-32) This is a sin committed by believers, because we will not let Him control us.Quenching the Spirit (1 Thess. 5:19) This is also committed by believers. This is when known sin goes unconfessed.There is also a sin of lying to the Holy Spirit (Acts 5:1-11) They tried to mock God. I do not see how you are connecting Matt. 24 and Matt. 12 together.

 

[Christina]

Wrong Jesus is teaching as he always does it has nothing to do with who he is talking to its just the situation that set up the teaching same as when he say you can judge one by their fruit it was not just met to whom he said it to it is just as much for all of us if you try to confine Jesus Words to just whom he was speaking at the time then all his words are not for us And no matter what you can not deny ALL MEN WILL BE FORGIVERN ALL BLASHEMEY pharisee are men Matthew 12:31 "Wherefore I say unto you, all manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: unto men."Jesus is telling you that all manner of sin is forgivable, except the sin committed by elect of God when he refuses to allow the Holy Spirit of God to speak through him when he is delivered up in the time of the end. This sin is spoken of in Mark 13:11; "But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought before hand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye, for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost.".Matthew 12:32 "And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come."The only time Jesus talks of the Holy spirit coming on men in the End times is Mark 13 You can call Jesus Christ what ever you want to, and even deny Christ before men, and upon repentance that act of sin will be forgiven of you. When the Holy Spirit of God wishes to use you, Jesus is warning you against not allowing Him to use your mouth, for He will do the thinking, and do the premeditating for you. When Christ healed the blind and dumb man, he both saw Christ, and spoke of Him. He spoke of the good news that Christ brought to him. This denying of the Holy Spirit then, is the unforgivable sin that only God's elect can commit. Matthew 12:33 "Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is know by his fruit."The punishment is eternal Damnation same as Satan no Flesh men have ever been condemed to this to date

 

[setfree]

Kriss wrote:Jesus is telling you that all manner of sin is forgivable, except the sin committed by elect of God when he refuses to allow the Holy Spirit of God to speak through him when he is delivered up in the time of the end. This sin is spoken of in Mark 13:11; "But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought before hand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye, for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost.".How do you get the elect of God. You even pointed out that it was addressed to men, not just to the elect. He was addressing the pharisees here. The Holy Spirit will not speak through the pharisees.Also it does not say they will refuse to let the HS speak through them it just says not to worry what you will say. This has nothing to do with Blaspheme.

 

[setfree]

Kriss wrote:You can call Jesus Christ what ever you want to, and even deny Christ before men, and upon repentance that act of sin will be forgiven of you. When the Holy Spirit of God wishes to use you, Jesus is warning you against not allowing Him to use your mouth, for He will do the thinking, and do the premeditating for you. When Christ healed the blind and dumb man, he both saw Christ, and spoke of Him. He spoke of the good news that Christ brought to him. This denying of the Holy Spirit then, is the unforgivable sin that only God's elect can commit. This is grieving the HS (Eph. 4:30-32). This is when you will not let Him control you. It speaks in 29 about what comes out of your mouth. This is not the same as blaspheme.

 

[Christina]

Because the subject of Mark 13 is the End times you must rightly divide the WordMARK 13Signs of the End of the Age it is the Elect that will be put on trial by Antichrist thats the subject of Mark 13 and thats the Ones this miracle of the type of Penecost day will happen to.The punishment is eternal Damnation same as Satan no Flesh men have ever been condemed to this to date

 

[setfree]

What scriptures do you use to tie them together? The miracle at Pentecost, end of times, Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit....None of the scriptures say that these are tied together. I do not want the scriptures quoted out of context. Use scriptures within the context to show me the meaning.

 

[setfree]

I agree that the Elect will be delivered to the synagogues. I believe it happen to the disciples and it will happen again at the end times.I also agree that the Holy Spirit will speak through them.But again this is not tied to the Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. Because Blashemy means-slander, you speak against the name or power. No where in these passages does it say that the ones delivered up will denounce God or the Holy Spirit. It simply says not to worry what to say that the Holy Spirit will be there to guide you or speak through you..

 

[Christina]

because Christ died for all sin all sin will be forgiven all men all blashemy will be forgiven all men am I right ?????Now all of a sudden we have a sin that you are condemed for eternally reguarding the Holy spirit/ ghost but God has said only Satan is condemed so this could not have happened yetSo you have to find where God explains this Holy ghost in scriptures penecost is past so when does he speak of this again in Mark 13 He is describing a day Same as Penecost where God will speak through the Elect because all those who stand against Antchrist are the Elect this is the only time in scripture he can be talking about We already know its future because of the penalty

 

[setfree]

Every sin except the sin of Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. If you are going to slander the Holy Spirit, speak unjuries to His name. I do not believe a believer would do this. This is referring to the unbelievers ( the Pharisees represent unbelievers). You are tying in the day of Pentecost out of speculation, not proof. He does not refer to the day of Pentecost in Mark. Are you saying that the Holy Spirit does not speak through people today? (I am not referring to tongues here)