The unknown single most important thing to be sure to know if you meet a JW.

[PS95]

Thank you for your post. Now I know who to put on ignore

I don't want to be associating with known cult members.



Eggshactly!

And they have been brainwashed so it's a waste of time to talk to them because they are reprobate and unteachable.

Instead as you pointed out, they are here to gain converts.

You are very welcome! It is not widely known that is their teaching. As I said, they are secretive and deceptive wolves in sheep clothing.

Thing is about ignoring them is when the mature believers ignore them- the weak and immature still read their poison, and they are who I am concerned about. Same with lurkers and those who are not members but can read here! They don't know they are JWs!!! They are not mature enough to set the JWs straight. So the new weaker ones become confused. I have seen it happen. THAT is why I joined here. I saw what they were doing. It's a very bad idea to let them do this. They can not be trusted to tell the truth EVER.

They are not the only jws here, just the most aggressive

 

[PS95]

I knew they weren't.

Back in the day I used to go out with church youth groups witnessing and the JWs get people twisted all around on scripture.

I was pretty young in the Lord at the time all I knew was I could tell the Holy Spirit was telling them they were nuts and to just walk away.

Later I did some research and studied from some of the folks that had been delivered out of their cult who were called to write books about how to counter their false doctrine and I gather some really good notes notes

It's very time consuming to deal with these folks on discussion forums and I typically don't have the patience for it, but thank you for taking the time do expose them

I was raised in it so I had no choice but to believe it. UNTIL I prayed about it.
I have a Q for you. If you don't mind. I'm curious..
I saw you mention that you feel they are reprobate and unteachable. How can we know that? Could it change? I dont understand.

 

[Dash RipRock]

I saw you mention that you feel they are reprobate and unteachable. How can we know that? Could it change? I dont understand.

If you came out of JW, then before you began to desire to know the Truth, you were reprobate and unteachable.

Those that thirst and hunger for righteousness shall be filled.

At some point you had to have a desire to know the Truth and be willing to accept Truth even if it meant being in disagreement with the JW teaching you had been taught and being shunned by friends and family that were JWs

It was only then that the Holy Spirit could began to reveal Truth of God's Word to you because you had a hunger to know Truth regardless of where that would lead you.

I was blessed to have no been raised in a household that was involved in any sort of religion. All I had to be delivered from from drugs, sex, and rock-n-roll. Then I found out about Christian rock and some Christians tried to tell me I was of the devil for listening to it which was pretty funny.

 

[PS95]

The wages of sin is death, as you already know. Did you know that there are two deaths, sister? The first one is when a person dies. The second one is the lake of fire. People who have physically died are still alive but are either in the paradise of God or they are in Hades (Hell or gehenna). On Judgement day, these unbelievers will be judged and their place will be the eternal lake of fire.

Here are a couple of Watchtower Org. quotes that show that they teach death pays for their own sins. Fortunately TheHC finally responded and affirmed because she knew I had quotes. I put them on a different thread she was on last summer.

The Watchtower 11/15/95 page 19
Must those resurrected during Jesus' Thousand Year Reign enter the antitypical city of refuge and remain there until the death of the high priest?
No, because by dying the paid the penalty for their sinfulness. (Romans 6:7; Heb 9:27) Nevertheless, the High Priest will help them to reach perfection. If they successfully pass the final test after the Millennium, God will also declare them righteous with a guarantee of eternal life on earth.

The Watchtower 5/15/73 page 312
What of those, then. who will be resurrected during Jesus' thousand year reign? Must these, too, come within the city of refuge and remain there until the "death of the high priest"? No, for these have paid the penalty for their sinfulness by their own death. (Rom 6:7) They have been aquitted of sin by going down into the common grave of all mankind. On coming forth from death they are now standing on a road that leads, not into the anti-typical city of refuge, but into everlasting life.

 

[PS95]

If you came out of JW, then before you began to desire to know the Truth, you were reprobate and unteachable.

oh yeah wow, was I ever unteachable! Christians would recite the bible to me, and I just blew them off as evil. I'd recite a memorized verse back to them. Now when I see that my verse was all out of context. Many times my verse was pointing right to me and the JWs.
Self-righteousness is so dangerous. See, to them everyone but them "lies in the hands of the wicked one"- anyone but them is "the world." it's a very judgmental, harsh group.

Those that thirst and hunger for righteousness shall be filled.

At some point you had to have a desire to know the Truth and be willing to accept Truth even if it meant being in disagreement with the JW teaching you had been taught and being shunned by friends and family that were JWs

Yes. That's exactly what happened. I prayed and asked God for His Truth because I felt something was missing. It was Jesus.

It was only then that the Holy Spirit could began to reveal Truth of God's Word to you because you had a hunger to know Truth regardless of where that would lead you.

Yes! It was like my eyes were washed. I read Romans all at once, and was shocked at what it said! I never knew any of that-- in context!
Next, was Ephesians and I was amazed. I still look back at that time with awe at how God truly does answer our pleas when we seek His face sincerely. I think He drew me to seek Him. I was just so lost. i remember the tears rolling as I cried out, Abba! What a gift!

I was blessed to have no been raised in a household that was involved in any sort of religion. All I had to be delivered from from drugs, sex, and rock-n-roll. Then I found out about Christian rock and some Christians tried to tell me I was of the devil for listening to it which was pretty funny.

I'm not going there.. haha I was no angel at one point either.......... I will say that He who is FORGIVEN much LOVES much!

Thank you for explaining your thoughts. When I see my JW family now they are so cold if the subject goes to God. They can't hear. It's sad. I know I can't help them. They see me how I saw others. I'm stupid and they are the teachers.
It's hard to accept their obstinacy, but I have best I can. We can't fix what doesn't think it's broken. God needs to do the breaking. That's my opinion..

 

[TheHC]

The issue here is JWs deny that Jesus' blood forgives our sins.

Another lie. Keep on , Jesus is watching.

They also don't think that doing bad deed in this life matters since when they die they pay for their own sins.

Sure it matters! If it didn’t, we would not remove them from being JWs.

I did this for the innocent people here.

Oh wow. All this time, I thought you wanted to help JWs… that’s what you had said in a previous post.

 

[TheHC]

People who have physically died are still alive…

No, they are not.

If those who’ve died, did live in another realm, God should have explained that to Adam…

ANOTHER FACTOR THAT PROVES AMIL FALSE, PAUL WISHED FOR A RESURRECTION OF THE UNJUST ALSO

You do understand that there are two different resurrections spoken about in the Scriptures? Please don't ask me dumb questions. Of course I know that, but I wonder if you understand what the two resurrections you have in mind are? Probably not. Both Jesus and Paul refer to those who are...

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Furthermore, if the dead are living elsewhere, what is the resurrection for? It’s a *future* event (John 6:44), not immediately after death.

Otherwise, Paul wouldn’t have said there were those who had “fallen asleep in death.” 1 Corinthians 15:6; 1 Thessalonians 4.

 

[TheHC]

@PS95 said:

“there are JW websites that WE are all restricted from even reading!”

Really? Then please copy the website links and post them.

If you can’t read them, surely you can copy the link, I’d like to see them.

That doesn’t alter the fact that you claimed there were none…

“A forum started by a JW” verses “JW forums”.

I see a difference. You don’t?

it doesn’t matter if they are not sanctioned as they are still JW forums.

Id say it matters quite a bit…

Let’s take SSA, the Social Security Administration:

If I say “On an SSA forum, it says…”

But if I say “On a forum started by a Social Security recipient, it says…”

If you can’t see how that matters, then I don’t think you want to.

 

[Debp]

@Angelina Why are the JWs on this site allowed to have Christian listed as their faith? They are known as a cult deviating from Christianity.

Also, if you meet any JWs in person, they never identify as a Christian.... it's always as a JW. Shouldn't they be listed as other faith or as JWs? That way less established Christians won't get led astray by them.

Another forum I attend is very strict about identifying members that are in cults, etc.

 

[Angelina]

No, they are not.

If those who’ve died, did live in another realm, God should have explained that to Adam…

This prophecy of the coming messiah is found in Genesis 3:15.

Furthermore, if the dead are living elsewhere, what is the resurrection for? It’s a *future* event (John 6:44), not immediately after death.

The resurrection is so that believers in Christ can enter the kingdom of heaven when they die. Prior to Christ's death and resurrection, this was not so. However, those who are not believers will end up in Hades until judgment.

Re: the discussion between Martha and Jesus about Lazarus, Jesus said: John 11:

24Martha replied, “I know that he will rise again in the resurrection at the last day.”
25Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. Whoever believes in Me will live, even though he dies. 26And everyone who lives and believes in Me will never die. Do you believe this?”

Then Jesus raised Lazarus from the dead

 

[Rita]

Hi @TheHC regarding your last post , sorry my iPad is playing up with regards to quoting some things ( it’s old !! lol )
I am not sure I saw it as being different in so much as most ‘ forums for discussion ‘ ect are started by individuals , but as the ones I found were only for JW’s then I concluded that they were JW forums. In the context of your post yesterday you relayed ‘ You know we don’t have any JW forums ‘

So my response was linked to that statement.
I only searched out of curiosity, also the question that followed after that post was out of curiosity as well. Xx

 

[PS95]

Another lie. Keep on , Jesus is watching.

You are calling me a liar again? That's comical. Let's see. When YOU DIE YOU PAY FOR YOUR OWN SINS. you've admitted that is what JWs teach. So what is left to forgive you for?
So you say.. Adam's sin is why Jesus died!! But Adam is not forgiven. Are you the judge of Adam ?
Translated into English all that means- is that Jesus suffered and died so my JW parents who already died to pay for their own sins will be resurrected from the grave- where they were peacefully sound asleep totally unaware of anything

I am the liar again. Ok.. I think it's just that when you see what you teach in plain English, it shocks even you!
According to you-
1) My JW parents died ,so they are guaranteed a resurrection since, by dying they paid for their own sins.

2) Jesus suffered and died to give them a chance to die to pay for their own sins..So that they could be resurrected. Otherwise, they would have just stayed asleep in the dust unaware and unconscious of anything at all- like sleeping in bed totally unaware that they missed out.

3) Your sins in this life don't matter since when you die you paid for your sins by dying.

Where did I lie HC?
That's really all you need to know to call JWs heretics/false teachers.- 3 things. Yet, there is SO MUCH MORE than this.

Sure it matters! If it didn’t, we would not remove them from being JWs.

THEN WHY DO YOU TEACH THAT YOUR BAD DEEDS IN THIS LIFE DO NOT MATTER?
Simple. because you say ..when you die your sins are paid for.

As far as your man-made rigid rules go- only thing anyone can figure out is it's prep for the JWs who you say will be alive and have to survive the Great Trib and then Armageddon without sinning once, or boom they're dead. They have to pass that "final test" Unable to pay for their own sins because they had not died...
That way, they earn that resurrection that Jesus died to buy them. --oh boy.

The people you toss out and shun- well they will say many are sexually immoral. Only elders know for sure. Even if true, .did you ever wonder if by telling people that their bad deeds don't really matter in this life may contribute to immorality?
Why don't they throw out the pedophiles? That's right- there must be 2 or 3 witnesses of the child rape or shut up.
Why do they throw out people who know a teaching is WRONG and say so because the bible say it is... That's right unity- unity doesn't need TRUTH in JW land.

Oh wow. All this time, I thought you wanted to help JWs… that’s what you had said in a previous post.

Yeah.. well, you make it tough because you lie over and over and over again." theocratic warfare" lying is Ok'd by the watchtower men, lying to protect the organization of liars is a real hard thing to help. You know the true gospel- you reject it.
I have a soft spot for those born in because they know no better. Been there.
But you who know the gospel and reject it and come here to spread your false gospel- no I can't help you. You have to stop idolizing the tower first and really really want Truth. Be brave enough to ask God to show you HIS TRUTH. (hint: it's in His Son and only in His Son)

 

[TrevorHL]

Greetings PS95,

My JW parents died ,so they are guaranteed a resurrection since, by dying they paid for their own sins.

Perhaps I do not understand the JW view on this, but the wages of sin is death. Death is the payment for sin. This is NOT forgiveness of our sins, but the outworking of our sins. This does not in any way guarantee a resurrection.

Romans 6:19–23 (KJV): 19 I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness. 20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness. 21 What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death. 22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life. 23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[PS95]

Greetings PS95,

Perhaps I do not understand the JW view on this, but the wages of sin is death. Death is the payment for sin. This is NOT forgiveness of our sins, but the outworking of our sins. This does not in any way guarantee a resurrection.

Romans 6:19–23 (KJV): 19 I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness. 20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness. 21 What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death. 22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life. 23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Kind regards
Trevor

Yes. Now you know. it is not widely announced. It's like pulling teeth to get it out of them on here, and then they call you a liar while they will admit that's what they teach, all in the same breath. I grew up in that nonsense. There is endless doublespeak.

Jws teach that we pay for our own sins by dying. You can Read post 3 on this thread for their reasoning. Link below.
The forgiveness would maybe come in by way of Jesus dying for Adam's sin. Although they teach Adam is not forgiven. So ... yeah i dont see any forgiveness either. If we die to pay for our own sins- then.. we would just stay dead asleep in the grave unaware of anything..
So since you win a resurrection- because you are sinless by dying--- nope still not seeing any forgiveness. Well Aunty Jane puts it this way--
through no fault of our own because of Adam we would die and stay dead.........so Jesus resurrects
nope not seeing forgiveness there either, if we are sinless by dying and would stay dead through no fault of our own then where is any forgiveness even needed? No sins by dying- no fault of our own.. nope.
Does your head hurt now, Trevor? mine does. I have never seen anything like this in the bible. no matter which one I read even the nwt!
It's very sad to me. They can't see what Jesus did for us.

The unknown single most important thing to be sure to know if you meet a JW.

I thought it would be helpful to understand how Jehovah's Witnesses view the atonement. It is a very different view than if you just read your bible and prayed. You may need this info one day if you run into a JW or know someone who does. I have invited @Aunty Jane to join me since she is a...

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