The Vail

[Mr E]

I hope you don’t get annoyed at my questions. But this is a big question I’ve had for a while. When He foretold of “see this temple here, these stones they are all coming down(falling down). Not one stone left upon another that isn’t turned over.” To me he was speaking of Luke 2:34-35 And Simeon blessed them, and said unto Mary his mother, Behold, this child is set for the fall and rising again of many in Israel; and for a sign which shall be spoken against; [35] (Yea, a sword shall pierce through thy own soul also,) that the thoughts of many hearts may be revealed.

My question is …if God destroys. Why in every place it speaks of to destroy, it says to give it over to satan for the destruction?

Whoa.... this is a big question. At the time- it was incomprehensible because of the enormity of the temple that Herod had built. But Simeon, in recognizing who this child would someday become- he is quoting from Isaiah 8.

That the child would grow to become the stone that causes many to stumble.

And this is they association made-- that 'people' are building blocks in this temple, or house of God-- that Kingdom not made of human hands, rather a spiritual realm made of human "stones." Living stones, I think Paul mentions. Maybe it's shocking to consider, but Jesus taught us that the kingdom was within. That the kingdom was a spiritual 'thing' that was somehow (conceptually) expanding and growing within us (those who accepted him). That we were like tents, or tabernacles, or temples where God resides--- taking it far beyond the concept that Moses understood-- that God lived in a box that he carted around and that only he could commune with Him. Jesus taught something far different.... that we could think of God as our Father-- and consider Him that way-- that those 'in Him' were a part of His kingdom, a part of Him and that as we were in God, God would be in us... Christ in us, us in God, God in us-- unity. Many people talk about it, few believe it.

As far as the rising and falling of many-- it's no different than what Jacob saw on that ladder. Spiritual ascending and descending- because inside-- we are spiritual.... just temporarily residing in these 'houses' made of human building materials. Wood and skin and stone.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Not only a poor substitute, but a poor example. Just like King David was a poor example of the one who was to come. In fact you can look at any and every anointed leader and none of them compare to the Christ, as manifest in Jesus. Yet Stephen was stoned for speaking against Moses (and the Law). Jesus was crucified for the same crime.

Can see what you share in if Moses wasn’t a poor substitute then why was there a need for another? Hebrews 7

But I do have questions about Moses. I’m still on the fence about his being a fake. Not the message received by those who didn’t believe not being mixed with faith. But the man Moses. My husband says similar things about how God was never in the inner room behind the curtain. How God was never in the OT. I kind of say the same in I question God was ever in Noah’s Ark because of the passage in the NT where if you see your brother without and close up you bowels of mercy to them, the Love of God is not in you. But I still hesitate to call Moses a fake. Or was it their hearing of Moses that was fake. Here is one question: one test (if I’ve understood) of whether what someone says has truth or speaks truth…it will come to pass? Which to me isn’t fake…but proves to be true.

This is the Moses who said to the Israelites, ‘God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among your brothers.’

If you are not bothered by my questions I have another from Numbers. To me it takes it even deeper of why they were enraged…where something Moses penned came true in their Adultery.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Whoa.... this is a big question. At the time- it was incomprehensible because of the enormity of the temple that Herod had built. But Simeon, in recognizing who this child would someday become- he is quoting from Isaiah 8.

That the child would grow to become the stone that causes many to stumble.

And this is they association made-- that 'people' are building blocks in this temple, or house of God-- that Kingdom not made of human hands, rather a spiritual realm made of human "stones." Living stones, I think Paul mentions. Maybe it's shocking to consider, but Jesus taught us that the kingdom was within. That the kingdom was a spiritual 'thing' that was somehow (conceptually) expanding and growing within us (those who accepted him). That we were like tents, or tabernacles, or temples where God resides--- taking it far beyond the concept that Moses understood-- that God lived in a box that he carted around and that only he could commune with Him. Jesus taught something far different.... that we could think of God as our Father-- and consider Him that way-- that those 'in Him' were a part of His kingdom, a part of Him and that as we were in God, God would be in us... Christ in us, us in God, God in us-- unity. Many people talk about it, few believe it.

As far as the rising and falling of many-- it's no different than what Jacob saw on that ladder. Spiritual ascending and descending- because inside-- we are spiritual.... just temporarily residing in these 'houses' made of human building materials. Wood and skin and stone.

Then to me (maybe wrong) but it becomes clear what is built, lifted up, growing, that was wasted…and it is not a piece of land or dirt but “people” the habitation of God.

 

[Mr E]

Can see what you share in if Moses wasn’t a poor substitute then why was there a need for another?

But I do have questions about Moses. I’m still on the fence about his being a fake. Not the message received by those who didn’t believe not being mixed with faith. But the man Moses. My husband says similar things about how God was never in the inner room behind the curtain. How God was never in the OT. I kind of say the same in I question God was ever in Noah’s Ark because of the passage in the NT where if you see your brother without and close up you bowels of mercy to them, the Love of God is not in you. But I still hesitate to call Moses a fake. Or their hearing of Moses fake. Here is one question: one test is if what someone says has truth or speaks truth…it will come to pass? Which to me isn’t fake…but proves to be true.


If you are not bothered by my questions I have another from Numbers. To me it takes it even deeper of why they were enraged…where something Moses penned came true in their Adultery.

I'm not bothered by questions. It was poor verbiage on my part to say "fake" because that implies all kinds of associations. Could Moses have been completely sincere and simply in error? Sure. But he was who he was, whether as some kind of self-promoting charlatan, or sincerely, yet seriously wrong... the result was the same. He misled people. -For forty years. They traveled a distance you could easily cover in one month. It shouldn't be a leap of understanding to think that he didn't have a good grip on reality- spiritual or otherwise, and Stephen identifies who it was that Moses was meeting in that tent.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

I'm not bothered by questions. It was poor verbiage on my part to say "fake" because that implies all kinds of associations. Could Moses have been completely sincere and simply in error? Sure. But he was who he was, whether as some kind of self-promoting charlatan, or sincerely, yet seriously wrong... the result was the same. He misled people. -For forty years. They traveled a distance you could easily cover in one month. It shouldn't be a leap of understanding to think that he didn't have a good grip on reality- spiritual or otherwise, and Stephen identifies who it was that Moses was meeting in that tent.

Sure. Like Abraham with Isaac was a poor substitute to what God gave; a Living sacrifice? Or like the woman who gave the precious oil to anoint Him with for his death; where the disciples squabbled the precious oil (a poor substitute)could have been sold to feed the poor. hello?! A poor substitute for …I can’t find the verse but where God cast seed abroad, distributed liberally to feed the poor.

In Numbers 5. To me it compliments Romans 7:1-6. And deepens why Jesus was killed and why Stephen was stoned. Point is even if Moses didn’t understand what was given, he still (Imo) spoke of the body of Christ In Numbers 5. The one who is free, innocent and bears seed, fruit unto God.

And I’m hesitant too in:
Hebrews 11:24-26 By faith Moses, when he was come to years, (reminds me of Paul’s saying but when the time had come God separated me from my mothers womb; to show mercy on my ignorance)refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter; [25] Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season; [26] Esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures in Egypt: for he had respect unto the recompence of the reward.
I didn’t purposely leave out the rest…I don’t know how esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches…could lead or steer one wrong. Or disappoint. Or make ashamed. Even in being a poor substitute. And the after leaving Egypt he endured as seeing Him who is unseen.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Then to me (maybe wrong) but it becomes clear what is built, lifted up, growing, that was wasted…and it is not a piece of land or dirt but “people” the habitation of God.

Concerning …where Paul said if I build again that which I destroyed then I make myself a transgressor. From the OT where those of him will rebuild or build again the waste lands…the only way I can understand it is when people are broken, wasted, or torn down. Edification is not building again what destroyed or broke them down leaving them a wasted and poor land. But the building up, strengthening, and edification in Christ. Just wanted to put that out there… because of Paul saying (imo)if he built again that which destroyed and wasted the body(i), that he also become a transgressor in the destruction and wasting of the body of Christ.