The Wages of Sin is Death, Jesus died a Death none other could.

[MatthewG]

If the wages of sin is death and Jesus died a death no one else could, doesn't that mean sin is taken care of?

Yes — if the wages of sin is death, and Jesus died the death no one else could, then the debt of sin is fully paid, once for all, for everyone. Scripture is extremely clear on this. The only way sin could still be an issue is if Jesus’ death wasn’t enough — and the New Testament refuses that idea outright.

1. The wages of sin is death — not guilt, not shame, not ongoing punishment​

Romans 6:23 doesn’t say:

• “The wages of sin is feeling bad.”
• “The wages of sin is struggling forever.”
• “The wages of sin is God being mad at you.”

It says:

“The wages of sin is death.”

So if death is the payment… and Jesus died… then the payment is done.

2. Jesus didn’t die a death — He died the death​

Hebrews 2:9 says:

“He tasted death for every man.”

Not a death. Not His own death. Not a symbolic death.

He tasted the death — the one that was owed.

And Hebrews 10:12 says:

“He offered one sacrifice for sins forever.”

If the wages of sin is death, and He paid that wage forever, then sin is not an unpaid bill.

3. If Jesus paid the full wage, then sin cannot still be charging people​

Otherwise:

• Jesus paid the wage
• But the wage is still due
• Which means the payment didn’t work

That would make the cross a partial payment, which the Bible rejects.

Hebrews 10:18:

“Where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.”

If there is no more offering, then the debt is gone.

4. Jesus’ death was unique — meaning it covered what no human death could​

You said it perfectly:

“Jesus died a death no one else could.”

Exactly.

Why?

Because:

• He had no sin of His own
• He could die as a substitute
• His life was of infinite worth
• His sacrifice was once for all (Heb. 10:10)

If His death was unique, then His payment was unique — and complete.

5. If sin still had power, Jesus would have to die again​

Hebrews 9:26 destroys that idea:

“He would have had to suffer often… but now once… He put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself.”

If sin wasn’t taken care of, Jesus would need to keep dying. But He doesn’t. Because it’s done.

6. The Bible’s own logic is airtight​

Let’s put it in a simple chain:

1. Sin demands death (Rom. 6:23)
2. Jesus died that death (Heb. 2:9)
3. He died once for all (Heb. 10:10)
4. He put away sin (Heb. 9:26)
5. There is no more offering for sin (Heb. 10:18)

Conclusion: Sin is taken care of. Completely.

7. So why do people still talk about sin?​

Because religion needs sin to stay in business.

Jesus ended the sin‑debt. Religion resurrects it every Sunday.

But the New Testament says:

• You are dead to sin (Rom. 6:11)
• Sin shall not have dominion over you (Rom. 6:14)
• You have been perfected forever (Heb. 10:14)
• You are a new creation (2 Cor. 5:17)

If the wages are paid, the case is closed.

Your statement is correct​

If the wages of sin is death… and Jesus died the death no one else could… then sin is taken care of.

Not “partially.” Not “conditionally.” Not “until you mess up again.”

Once for all.

 

[MatthewG]

People hold on to sin-language because it gives them something to accuse, control, or condemn others with.

It’s easier to point fingers than to stand honestly before the One they claim to serve.

“Why do you look at the speck in your brother’s eye but ignore the plank in your own?” (Matthew 7:3)

Good or bad, Yahavah is not a man. He isn’t fragile, and He isn’t shocked by anything we bring to Him.

“God is not a man, that He should lie.” (Numbers 23:19)

He already knows the truth about us, and we are still responsible for our own actions.

“Each of us will give an account of himself to God.” (Romans 14:12)

Scripture even says God can shake a person’s faith, discipline them, and bring them low if needed.

“For the Lord disciplines the one He loves… and scourges every son whom He receives.” (Hebrews 12:6)

Most people don’t like that, so they cling to man‑made ideas about what gets someone “closer” to Yahavah. And if you don’t follow their system, suddenly “God hates you” or “you’re not worth their time.”

That’s not God — that’s people.

Abuse, manipulation, and spiritual pressure happen everywhere. Sometimes people are so surrounded by certain teachings that they don’t even realize they’ve been shaped — or brainwashed — by them.

“Bad company corrupts good morals.” (1 Corinthians 15:33)

But Jesus didn’t come to put people under more chains.

He came to set people free from the burdens others place on them.
“If the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed.” (John 8:36)

 

[MatthewG]

I’m thankful for this.

 

[MatthewG]

I'm so thankful for this!

Everytime I get to when Yeshua dies I typically start crying because it's really sad.

This is sad. However, Yahavah still rose his Son up on the Third day! This is a reason to rejoice because resurrection exists!

 

[Soyeong]

If the wages of sin is death and Jesus died a death no one else could, doesn't that mean sin is taken care of?

Yes — if the wages of sin is death, and Jesus died the death no one else could, then the debt of sin is fully paid, once for all, for everyone. Scripture is extremely clear on this. The only way sin could still be an issue is if Jesus’ death wasn’t enough — and the New Testament refuses that idea outright.

1. The wages of sin is death — not guilt, not shame, not ongoing punishment​

Romans 6:23 doesn’t say:

• “The wages of sin is feeling bad.”
• “The wages of sin is struggling forever.”
• “The wages of sin is God being mad at you.”

It says:


So if death is the payment… and Jesus died… then the payment is done.

2. Jesus didn’t die a death — He died the death​

Hebrews 2:9 says:


Not a death. Not His own death. Not a symbolic death.

He tasted the death — the one that was owed.

And Hebrews 10:12 says:


If the wages of sin is death, and He paid that wage forever, then sin is not an unpaid bill.

3. If Jesus paid the full wage, then sin cannot still be charging people​

Otherwise:

• Jesus paid the wage
• But the wage is still due
• Which means the payment didn’t work

That would make the cross a partial payment, which the Bible rejects.

Hebrews 10:18:


If there is no more offering, then the debt is gone.

4. Jesus’ death was unique — meaning it covered what no human death could​

You said it perfectly:


Exactly.

Why?

Because:

• He had no sin of His own
• He could die as a substitute
• His life was of infinite worth
• His sacrifice was once for all (Heb. 10:10)

If His death was unique, then His payment was unique — and complete.

5. If sin still had power, Jesus would have to die again​

Hebrews 9:26 destroys that idea:


If sin wasn’t taken care of, Jesus would need to keep dying. But He doesn’t. Because it’s done.

6. The Bible’s own logic is airtight​

Let’s put it in a simple chain:

1. Sin demands death (Rom. 6:23)
2. Jesus died that death (Heb. 2:9)
3. He died once for all (Heb. 10:10)
4. He put away sin (Heb. 9:26)
5. There is no more offering for sin (Heb. 10:18)

Conclusion: Sin is taken care of. Completely.

7. So why do people still talk about sin?​

Because religion needs sin to stay in business.

Jesus ended the sin‑debt. Religion resurrects it every Sunday.

But the New Testament says:

• You are dead to sin (Rom. 6:11)
• Sin shall not have dominion over you (Rom. 6:14)
• You have been perfected forever (Heb. 10:14)
• You are a new creation (2 Cor. 5:17)

If the wages are paid, the case is closed.

Your statement is correct​

If the wages of sin is death… and Jesus died the death no one else could… then sin is taken care of.

Not “partially.” Not “conditionally.” Not “until you mess up again.”

Once for all.

Our salvation from sin would be incomplete if we were only saved from the penalty of our sin while we continued to be doers of sin, so there is an aspect of our gift of salvation from sin that we are experiencing in the present by repenting and becoming a doer of the Law of God. Jesus saves us fro our sin (Matthew 1:21) and sin is the transgression of the Law of God), so Jesus graciously teaching us to experience being a doer of it is intrinsically the way that he is giving us his gift of saving us from not being a doer of it.

The content of a gift can be the experience of doing something, such as giving someone the opportunity to experience driving a Ferrari, where the gift intrinsically requires then to do the work of driving it in order to experience driving it, but where doing that work contributes nothing towards earning the opportunity to drive it as the result. In Titus 2:11-13, the content of our gift of salvation is described as being trained by grace to do what is godly, righteous, ad good, and to renounce doing what is ungodly, so we are not extrinsically required to be doer of those works in order to earn our salvation as the result and we are not extrinsically required to do those works as the result of having first been saved, but rather we are intrinsically required to be a doer of those works because God graciously teaching us to experience being a doer of them is part of the content of His gift of salvation. In Titus 2:14, it does not say that Jesus gave himself just to redeem us from all lawlessness but also to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works, so the way to believe in what he accomplished through the cross is by becoming zealous for doing good works in obedience to the Law of God (Acts 21:20).

In Titus 2

 

[Soyeong]

If the wages of sin is death and Jesus died a death no one else could, doesn't that mean sin is taken care of?

Yes — if the wages of sin is death, and Jesus died the death no one else could, then the debt of sin is fully paid, once for all, for everyone. Scripture is extremely clear on this. The only way sin could still be an issue is if Jesus’ death wasn’t enough — and the New Testament refuses that idea outright.

1. The wages of sin is death — not guilt, not shame, not ongoing punishment​

Romans 6:23 doesn’t say:

• “The wages of sin is feeling bad.”
• “The wages of sin is struggling forever.”
• “The wages of sin is God being mad at you.”

It says:


So if death is the payment… and Jesus died… then the payment is done.

2. Jesus didn’t die a death — He died the death​

Hebrews 2:9 says:


Not a death. Not His own death. Not a symbolic death.

He tasted the death — the one that was owed.

And Hebrews 10:12 says:


If the wages of sin is death, and He paid that wage forever, then sin is not an unpaid bill.

3. If Jesus paid the full wage, then sin cannot still be charging people​

Otherwise:

• Jesus paid the wage
• But the wage is still due
• Which means the payment didn’t work

That would make the cross a partial payment, which the Bible rejects.

Hebrews 10:18:


If there is no more offering, then the debt is gone.

4. Jesus’ death was unique — meaning it covered what no human death could​

You said it perfectly:


Exactly.

Why?

Because:

• He had no sin of His own
• He could die as a substitute
• His life was of infinite worth
• His sacrifice was once for all (Heb. 10:10)

If His death was unique, then His payment was unique — and complete.

5. If sin still had power, Jesus would have to die again​

Hebrews 9:26 destroys that idea:


If sin wasn’t taken care of, Jesus would need to keep dying. But He doesn’t. Because it’s done.

6. The Bible’s own logic is airtight​

Let’s put it in a simple chain:

1. Sin demands death (Rom. 6:23)
2. Jesus died that death (Heb. 2:9)
3. He died once for all (Heb. 10:10)
4. He put away sin (Heb. 9:26)
5. There is no more offering for sin (Heb. 10:18)

Conclusion: Sin is taken care of. Completely.

7. So why do people still talk about sin?​

Because religion needs sin to stay in business.

Jesus ended the sin‑debt. Religion resurrects it every Sunday.

But the New Testament says:

• You are dead to sin (Rom. 6:11)
• Sin shall not have dominion over you (Rom. 6:14)
• You have been perfected forever (Heb. 10:14)
• You are a new creation (2 Cor. 5:17)

If the wages are paid, the case is closed.

Your statement is correct​

If the wages of sin is death… and Jesus died the death no one else could… then sin is taken care of.

Not “partially.” Not “conditionally.” Not “until you mess up again.”

Once for all.

Our salvation from sin would be incomplete if we were only saved from the penalty of our sin while we continued to be doers of sin, so there is an aspect of our gift of salvation from sin that we are experiencing in the present by repenting and becoming a doer of the Law of God. Jesus saves us fro our sin (Matthew 1:21) and sin is the transgression of the Law of God, so Jesus graciously teaching us to experience being a doer of it is intrinsically the way that he is giving us his gift of saving us from not being a doer of it.

The content of a gift can be the experience of doing something, such as giving someone the opportunity to experience driving a Ferrari, where the gift intrinsically requires then to do the work of driving it in order to experience driving it, but where doing that work contributes nothing towards earning the opportunity to drive it as the result. In Titus 2:11-13, the content of our gift of salvation is described as being trained by grace to do what is godly, righteous, ad good, and to renounce doing what is ungodly, so we are not extrinsically required to be doer of those works in order to earn our salvation as the result and we are not extrinsically required to do those works as the result of having first been saved, but rather we are intrinsically required to be a doer of those works because God graciously teaching us to experience being a doer of them is part of the content of His gift of salvation. In Titus 2:14, it does not say that Jesus gave himself just to redeem us from all lawlessness but also to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works, so the way to believe in what he accomplished through the cross is by becoming zealous for doing good works in obedience to the Law of God (Acts 21:20).

He came to set people free from the burdens others place on them.
“If the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed.” (John 8:36)

In Psalm 119:142, the Law of God is truth, and in John 8:31-36, it is the transgression of the Law of God that puts us into bondage while the truth is what sets us free.

 

[MatthewG]

Our salvation from sin would be incomplete if we were only saved from the penalty of our sin while we continued to be doers of sin, so there is an aspect of our gift of salvation from sin that we are experiencing in the present by repenting and becoming a doer of the Law of God. Jesus saves us fro our sin (Matthew 1:21) and sin is the transgression of the Law of God), so Jesus graciously teaching us to experience being a doer of it is intrinsically the way that he is giving us his gift of saving us from not being a doer of it.

The content of a gift can be the experience of doing something, such as giving someone the opportunity to experience driving a Ferrari, where the gift intrinsically requires then to do the work of driving it in order to experience driving it, but where doing that work contributes nothing towards earning the opportunity to drive it as the result. In Titus 2:11-13, the content of our gift of salvation is described as being trained by grace to do what is godly, righteous, ad good, and to renounce doing what is ungodly, so we are not extrinsically required to be doer of those works in order to earn our salvation as the result and we are not extrinsically required to do those works as the result of having first been saved, but rather we are intrinsically required to be a doer of those works because God graciously teaching us to experience being a doer of them is part of the content of His gift of salvation. In Titus 2:14, it does not say that Jesus gave himself just to redeem us from all lawlessness but also to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works, so the way to believe in what he accomplished through the cross is by becoming zealous for doing good works in obedience to the Law of God (Acts 21:20).


In Psalm 119:142, the Law of God is truth, and in John 8:31-36, it is the transgression of the Law of God that puts us into bondage while the truth is what sets us free.

short answer :
You’re free to live under the Law if that’s what you choose, but I’m not under that covenant. I follow the law of Christ, which is to believe in Him and to love others.
Jesus said the work God requires is to believe in the One He sent (John 6:29), and He said His commandment is that we love one another (John 13:34).
That’s the freedom He gave us.



The core issue

He is saying:

“The gift of salvation is the experience of becoming obedient to the Law.
Therefore, doing the Law is part of the gift itself.”

That sounds spiritual, but it collapses the difference between:

• what saves you, and
• what saved people look like.


Scripture never merges those two.

---

What Scripture actually teaches

1. Salvation is a finished work, not an ongoing training

Jesus said, “It is finished.”
Paul said, “You have been saved” (perfect tense).
Hebrews says He “made purification for sins” once for all.

Salvation is not:

• a process of becoming obedient
• a process of being trained
• a process of learning to keep the Law


Those are results, not the gift.

2. Grace trains us — but training is not salvation

Titus 2:11–14 does say grace teaches us.
But it does not say grace is the teaching.

Grace saves.
Grace also teaches.
Those are related, but not identical.

He is merging them into one thing.

---

Why his Ferrari analogy fails

He says:

“The gift is the experience of driving the Ferrari.”

No.
The gift is the Ferrari.
Driving it is what you do because you have it.

Likewise:

• Salvation is the gift.
• Obedience is the experience of having received the gift.


He’s confusing cause and effect.

---

The subtle danger

He keeps saying:

“We are intrinsically required to do good works because doing them is part of the gift.”

That sounds humble, but it’s actually a backdoor works‑gospel.

He’s not saying:

• “Do good works to earn salvation.”
He’s saying:
• “Doing good works is salvation.”


That’s just as dangerous.

Paul warned about this exact thing in Galatians.

---

The Law problem

He keeps appealing to:

• Psalm 119
• Acts 21
• “zealous for the Law”
• “sin is transgression of the Law”


But he’s ignoring the entire New Testament teaching that:

• believers are not under the Law
• the Law was a tutor leading to Christ
• the Law’s purpose was to condemn, not empower
• the Law is fulfilled in love, not in Torah‑keeping
• the Spirit, not the Law, produces righteousness


He’s trying to drag Christians back under a covenant that was never given to Gentiles and was fulfilled by Christ.

---

What’s really going on

He’s reacting against:

• empty religion
• checklist Christianity
• hypocrisy
• legalistic church culture


You and I agree with him there.

But instead of embracing freedom in Christ, he’s building a new system where:

• obedience = salvation
• training = salvation
• doing = salvation


He’s trying to fix legalism with… a more spiritual‑sounding legalism.