"The WAY" = Christianity?

[DAH]

the only thing I see is the Jews and Gentiles are the same in God's eyes.

both have to come to God in FAITH. one by faith and the other through faith. scripture, Romans 3:29 "Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also".

Romans 3:9 "What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin".

Romans 3:30 "Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith".

PCY.

TRUE - I never alluded to that for this Age of Grace. But only AFTER mid Acts is this true. Prior to that, not true. The Kingdom Gospel did not include gentiles being saved by faith alone. In fact the 12 were commanded to avoid the gentiles - because prior to mid Acts, they were not two in one.

Ephesians 2:15
(KJV)
15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;



Gentiles were not equal prior to Mid Acts. That's why the Kingdom Gospel had to change to the Mystery Gospel revealed to Paul - The Gospel of the Grace of God.

Ephesians 2:11-13
(KJV Strong's)
11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; 12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: 13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

 

[DAH]

correct, Jesus said, ....

John 14:1 "Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.

John 14:2 "In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

John 14:3 "And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

John 14:4 "And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.

John 14:5 "Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way?

John 14:6 "Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me".

PCY.

That's nice - but you are not saved by the Gospel Jesus preached in his earthly ministry. Following the way he taught on earth will not save you for eternity. If you believe that, then you must follow the law, as that was what Jesus commanded. Therefor, you should sell all your belongings and give it all to the poor. You must be circumcised, you must be able to drink poison and heal people too....? Jesus was preparing a nation of Israel to enter a Kingdom as a nation of priests. We are not priests - we are new creatures, one in Christ - one body.

This is why Luke shows a this way and a that way - they are two different plans of salvation. One for the Kingdom and one for the dispensation of the age of grace, in which we now live and are saved.

Ephesians 3:1-6
(KJV)
1 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles, 2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward: 3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, 4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ) 5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; 6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

 

[DAH]

I'm sorry I just don't see any difference. see the same Paul was of the WAY, by a different name, scripture, Acts 24:1 "And after five days Ananias the high priest descended with the elders, and with a certain orator named Tertullus, who informed the governor against Paul.

Acts 24:2 "And when he was called forth, Tertullus began to accuse him, saying, Seeing that by thee we enjoy great quietness, and that very worthy deeds are done unto this nation by thy providence,

Acts 24:3 "We accept it always, and in all places, most noble Felix, with all thankfulness.

Acts 24:4 "Notwithstanding, that I be not further tedious unto thee, I pray thee that thou wouldest hear us of thy clemency a few words.

Acts 24:5 "For we have found this man a pestilent fellow, and a mover of sedition among all the Jews throughout the world, and a ringleader of the sect of the Nazarenes".

here the Nazarenes is referred to "Christian". and the Nazarenes was the sect "the WAY".

the message didn't change.

PCY.

Hmmm...are you saying Paul's message was the same - in all references in Acts? If not - I apologize. If so, Paul's relayed Mystery Gospel is night and day from the Kingdom Gospel. Feel free to pick a gospel and sliritualize away all the differences...they are clearly different Gospel's and clearly referenced to differently in Acts as "this way" and "that way"

Simple differences between Kingdom Gospel ( JESUS' earthlt ministry and shared by the 12) and Gospel of Grace (preaching the cross - the mystery revealed directly to Paul from Christ):

Kingdom Gospel
Preaches the soon coming of the king and his kingdom (Matt 3:2)

Gospel of Grace
Preaches the grace of God for salvation (Rom 3:22-26)

Kingdom Gospel
The king and kingdom was promised to the nation of Israel (Luke 1:69)

Gospel of Grace
The grace of God is offered freely to all (Rom 3:22)

Kingdom Gospel
The kingdom was spoken about since the world began (Acts 3:21-25)

Gospel of Grace
The dispensation of God’s grace was kept secret since the world began (Rom 16:25)

Kingdom Gospel
Killing the king is a sad and wicked thing (Luke 24:17; Acts 2:23)

Gospel of Grace
The crucifixion of Christ is our glory (Gal 6:14)

Kingdom Gospel
The cross of Christ was not part of the message (Luke 9:2 vs. Luke 18:34)

Gospel of Grace
Requires preaching the cross (1 Corinthians 15:1-4)

Kingdom Gospel
Resurrection was not part of the message (John 20:9)

Gospel of Grace
Preaching is vain without the resurrection (1 Corinthians 15:14)

Kingdom Gospel
The kingdom requires performance (1 John 2:3; Matt 25:32-46)

Gospel of Grace
God’s grace motivates a purpose in your heart (2 Cor 9:7; 2 Cor 5:14-15)

Kingdom Gospel
The kingdom will benefit everyone on earth (Rev 20:3-4; Isa 2:3-4)

Gospel of Grace
God’s grace unto salvation benefits only those that believe (Rom 3:22)

Kingdom Gospel
Salvation comes in the future when the kingdom comes (Acts 3:19; Heb 9:28; 1 Pet 1:5)

Gospel of Grace
Salvation comes at the moment of belief (Eph 1:13; Rom 5:1)

Kingdom Gospel
To be saved requires enduring to the end (Matt 24:13)

Gospel of Grace
To be saved requires believing your work has come to an end (Rom 4:5)

Kingdom Gospel
There is a difference between Jew and Gentile in the kingdom (Matt 15:26; Zech 8:23)

Gospel of Grace
There are no Jews or Gentiles in the church in this dispensation of grace (Gal 3:28)

Kingdom Gospel
Was given to the Twelve apostles of Israel to preach (Acts 1:3)

Gospel of Grace
Was given to the apostle of the Gentiles to preach (Rom 11:13; 1 Cor 9:17; Eph 3:1-2)

Kingdom Gospel
Waiting for a kingdom of heaven to come to earth (Matt 6:10)

Gospel of Grace
Preaching for those on earth to trust Christ and go to heaven (Eph 2:6-7)

Kingdom Gospel
The kingdom will be a visible presence on earth (Matt 24:27; Rev 19:11)

Gospel of Grace
God’s grace is by faith and not by sight (2 Cor 5:7)

Kingdom Gospel
Healing of the sick was a sign of the kingdom (Matt 4:23; Mark 16:18)

Gospel of Grace
The lack of healing is a sign of God’s sufficient grace (2 Cor 12:8-10)

Kingdom Gospel
Water baptism prepares Israel to enter the kingdom (Matt 3:3; Acts 2:38)

Gospel of Grace
Baptism by the Spirit places us in the Body of Christ (1 Cor 12:13)

Kingdom Gospel
Continued obedience to the commandments required (Matt 23:13)

Gospel of Grace
Justified without the law of Moses; not under the law (Acts 13:39; Rom 6:14)

Kingdom Gospel
Faith without works is dead (James 2:24)

Gospel of Grace
Faith in the finished work of Christ gives peace and life (Rom 4:5; Rom 5:1)

These are just a few of the differences between preaching the gospel of the kingdom and the gospel of the grace of God. These are only two of the many gospels in the Bible.

If the church agrees we are to preach the gospel. It is important we get the message right and clear. Knowing the difference between the many gospels in the Bible is the difference between a confused church and a saved church.

Today, God is dispensing his grace to a world of sinners, not his kingdom to a world in righteous judgment. It is the church’s responsibility to make all men see this mystery operation of God (Eph 3:9).

Knowing what makes the gospel of the grace of God different is necessary to make our message clear enough so that God’s will be done (1 Tim 2:4).

“Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.” – 1 Timothy 2:4

 

[101G]

GINOLJC, to all.

DAH, maybe I see your problem. let me ask you a question.

When did the Kingdom come? maybe this will clear up the matter.

PCY.

 

[DAH]

GINOLJC, to all.

DAH, maybe I see your problem. let me ask you a question.

When did the Kingdom come? maybe this will clear up the matter.

PCY.

It hasn't and won't until the 2nd coming.

 

[101G]

I knew that was the Problem. the Kingdom of God came on on Pentecost. you didn't know that did you. listen. Who came on Pentecost? God the Holy Spirit, JESUS. notice I said JESUS, not Jesus the Christ.

here's the scripture to back up my claim.
Mark 9:1 "And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power".

see that DAH, "some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power".

now you have two options.

A. either there are some very, very, very, old people walking around still waiting for the Kingdom of God. or, option,

B. the Kingdom of God did come before some of them standing there died.

Now, I'm a betting and I'm putting money, (Belief) on the Lord Jesus who don't LIE.

now take your pick of A. B. me, I chose B... what's your choice.

after you make your choice then we can discuss the Kingdom of God.

I'll be waiting for your answer.

PCY.

 

[DAH]

I choose option "C"

First off - thanks for engaging. It is edifying to debate with other believers. Hopefully we all learn from it.

Okay - so you're a preterist.

Couple points

Actually, Jesus told His disciples that He didn’t know the day or the hour these events would take place in Matthew 24:36....so he lied?

Because of this verse (Matt. 24:34) and a couple of others that we’ll look at, preterists insist that all of the things spoken about in this chapter, including…

• the Tribulation events (spoken of in Revelation)
• and the coming of Christ

...had to have occurred before the generation of people living at the time of Jesus, died off.

Well, I disagree that this is what Jesus meant. “Then, what ‘generation’ was Jesus talking about in Matthew 24:34?” He was talking about the generation that would see “all” (v. 34) the things He just mentioned.

The key to understanding this verse (Matthew 24:34) is found by backing up a verse. Notice verse 33. Jesus said...

Matthew 24:33-34
33 “Even so you too, when you see these things, recognize that He is near, right at the door. 34 Truly I say to you, this generation [What generation? the generation who, in v. 33, sees “all” those things] will not pass away until all these things take place.”

So, Jesus says “when you see all these things” (v. 33).

What things?

• The “Abomination of Desolation” (v.15) - i never read about this occurring yet?
• The time of “great tribulation” (v. 21) “such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now nor ever shall.” pretty sure the history books would have recorded these events...?
• The stars falling from the skies (v. 29) - yup, stars still there...?

That generation (the Tribulation generation) will not pass away without also seeing the coming of the Son of Man to the Earth (mentioned in v. 30).

Jesus was talking about the generation of people who would be alive during the events leading up to His Second Coming, that is, during the time of tribulation.

Why would Jesus speak of events that were so far off? Because He was answering the question His disciples asked Him a few minutes earlier about the “end of the age” (v. 3).

Notice what they asked Him in Matthew 24:3...

Matthew 24:3
“What will be the sign of Your coming and the of the age?”

That’s why Jesus spoke to them about events so far off. They asked! If what Jesus said in Matthew 24 was about events that would transpire in A.D. 70 (as preterists believe), then Jesus failed to answer their question. They asked about events regarding the “end of the age” (v. 3) and that’s what Jesus told them about—events that are still in the future. So, Matthew 24:34 fails to support the preterists’ view.

 

[101G]

First off - thanks for enguaging. It is edifying to debate with other belivers. Hopefully we all learn from it.

Okay - so you're a preterist.

Couple points

Actually, Jesus told His disciples that He didn’t know the day or the hour these events would take place in Matthew 24:36.

Because of this verse (Matt. 24:34) and a couple of others that we’ll look at, preterists insist that all of the things spoken about in this chapter, including…

• the Tribulation events (spoken of in Revelation)
• and the coming of Christ

...had to have occurred before the generation of people living at the time of Jesus, died off.

Well, I disagree that this is what Jesus meant. “Then, what ‘generation’ was Jesus talking about in Matthew 24:34?” He was talking about the generation that would see “all” (v. 34) the things He just mentioned.

The key to understanding this verse (Matthew 24:34) is found by backing up a verse. Notice verse 33. Jesus said...

Matthew 24:33-34
33 “Even so you too, when you see these things, recognize that He is near, right at the door. 34 Truly I say to you, this generation [What generation? the generation who, in v. 33, sees “all” those things] will not pass away until all these things take place.”

So, Jesus says “when you see all these things” (v. 33).

What things?

• The “Abomination of Desolation” (v.15) - i never read about this occurring yet?
• The time of “great tribulation” (v. 21) “such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now nor ever shall.” pretty sure the history books would have recorded these events...?
• The stars falling from the skies (v. 29) - yup, stars still there...?

That generation (the Tribulation generation) will not pass away without also seeing the coming of the Son of Man to the Earth (mentioned in v. 30).

Jesus was talking about the generation of people who would be alive during the events leading up to His Second Coming, that is, during the time of tribulation.

Why would Jesus speak of events that were so far off? Because He was answering the question His disciples asked Him a few minutes earlier about the “end of the age” (v. 3).

Notice what they asked Him in Matthew 24:3...

Matthew 24:3
“What will be the sign of Your coming and the of the age?”

That’s why Jesus spoke to them about events so far off. They asked! If what Jesus said in Matthew 24 was about events that would transpire in A.D. 70 (as preterists believe), then Jesus failed to answer their question. They asked about events regarding the “end of the age” (v. 3) and that’s what Jesus told them about—events that are still in the future. So, Matthew 24:34 fails to support the preterists’ view.

First thanks for the reply. I'll answer you one step at a time.

#1. No, I'm not a preterist at all, full, or partial. I caught them with Mark 9:1 and Matt 16:28 and Luke 9:27. some of them saw their mistake.

#2. U said, "Actually, Jesus told His disciples that He didn’t know the day or the hour these events would take place in Matthew 24:36". ONLY the FATHER knows...... . I suggest you read my Post in the topic "Diversified Oneness" page 4, post #76. if you have any questions we can discuss that also.

#3. U said, "Because of this verse (Matt. 24:34) and a couple of others that we’ll look at, preterists insist that all of the things spoken about in this chapter, including…
• the Tribulation events (spoken of in Revelation)
• and the coming of Christ" the preterist are incorrect because they fail to understand the TWO FOLD Return of Christ. if like we can discuss that also. as Our brother, Paul said, "I have you not Ignorant".

#4. U Said, "...had to have occurred before the generation of people living at the time of Jesus, died off". no, not the generation, but the people STANDING there, and I can prove it. and when I prove it then the preterist doctrine falls on its face.

#5. U said, "Well, I disagree that this is what Jesus meant. “Then, what ‘generation’ was Jesus talking about in Matthew 24:34?” He was talking about the generation that would see “all” (v. 34) the things He just mentioned". see there's a return in Spirit, and there is a return in body..... . the two Fold return of Christ answer both Matthew 24:34 and Mark 9:1.

#6. U said,
"• The “Abomination of Desolation” (v.15) - i never read about this occurring yet?
• The time of “great tribulation” (v. 21) “such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now nor ever shall.” pretty sure the history books would have recorded these events...?
• The stars falling from the skies (v. 29) - yup, stars still there...?". oH DON'T worry its coming.... . and he's going to put all the rebellion down then. that's his second of his two fold return.

#7. U said, "That’s why Jesus spoke to them about events so far off". see in hermeneutics, there is an application called "far and near". well Mark 9:1 is audience relevant, NEAR. and we'll see that.

#8. after this post I will post about his two fold return if you haven't yet replied.

PCY

 

[101G]

The Lord Jesus TWO FOLD Return.

Lets carefully, and fully explain this two fold return. what do we mean, two fold?, his return is in two parts. the first of his two fold return is in Spirit, and this return happen on the day of Pentecost. with this first of his two fold return happening before some of them standing there died. this return was in power, meaning in Spirit, (the Holy Spirit). this is the Lord Jesus “first” of his two fold return, and yes the Lord Jesus is the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of truth, for he is the truth, the light and the way.

supportive scripture, John 14:18 "I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you”. this was directed to his disciples, and he came to them as he said he would. he came in Spirit. so how do we know this?. John 14:20 "At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you. 21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him”. the Lord Jesus said that he will “manifest himself”. but how is he manifesting himself to them, his disciple?. this is the same question Judas asked, not Iscariot, listen, John 14:22" Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?”. this is the key question in understanding our Lord's return, and his diversity. this is another eureka moment in history, as with Moses asking God what is his name. the Lord Jesus said that he will manifest himself to them. here is how he manifested himself, in (POWER). Acts 2:1 "And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. 2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. 3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them 4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance”. this is the manifestation that Judas asked about in John 14, and the Lord himself said that he would manifest himself. notice, Judas asked, “Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?”. again, notice Judas said, “unto us (them, the disciples). here’s how the Lord Jesus manifested himself to his disciples and not the world. the manifestation of Christ is in the Spiritual “GIFTS” of the Holy Spirit. these Spiritual gifts were given on the day of Pentecost, and are listed in the scriptures, 1 Corinthians 12:7" But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal”. there’s that manifestation that Judas asked about, and what the Lord said that he would do by himself. the full list of “GIFTS” read as follows, see 1 Corinthians 12:8-11.

This pouring out of these gifts happen on the day of Pentecost, just as the prophet Joel spoke by the Word of God. Joel 2:28" And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions: 29 And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit”. notice God said his “spirit”, small case “s” in spirit, indicating his diversified spirit, as God with flesh and bones. this is the first of the Lord Jesus return, in power of the Holy Spirit. his body is present in Heaven, as he sit on the throne, and his spirit on earth. if one would now notice, this is the reverse of John 3:13. where the Spirit was in heaven (Present) and the body was on earth (Present). now the body is in heaven and the Spirit is on earth. but did not Joel state that it was the LORD'S Spirit that was poured out?. yes, for the Lord Jesus is God, the Holy Spirit. listen, in Joel, he said that the LORD will “pour” out his spirit. and this happen on Pentecost. scripture, Acts 2:16" But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel”. the apostle Peter plainly lets us know that what was happening on Pentecost was spoke of by the LORD prophet Joel. the question arises, who poured his spirit out?. Joel said it was the LORD, all caps. let's see who poured it out on Pentecost. Acts 2:32" This Jesus hath God raised up, (see John 2:19-21), whereof we all are witnesses. 33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath “shed” forth this, which ye now see and hear”. the key word here is he, the Lord JESUS, “shed”. what do shed means?, it is the Greek word, G1632 ἐκχέω ekcheo (ek-kheh'-o) (or (by variation) ekchuno ek-khoo'-no)
1. to pour forth
2. (figuratively) to bestow
KJV: gush (pour) out, run greedily (out), shed (abroad, forth), spill

there is our word, in the first definition, “shed” means “pour forth or out”. and it is the Lord Jesus who poured out his Spirit. this proves that the Lord Jesus, (in flesh and bones, now Glorified) is the Holy Spirit, who is GOD (Almighty). in power of the Spirit he poured out “HIS”, not their, but "HIS" Spirit on the day of Pentecost, (read Acts 2:32 & 33 again). and this pouring out, or MANIFESTATION of the spirit, makes Mark 9:1, Luke 9:27 and Matthew 16:28 fulfilled, and the words of the Lord Jesus TRUE. this is the manifestation Judas ask about in John 14:22, and the Lord foretold himsel. so clearly we see that this is the first of his two fold return, in the power of the Spirit. John 14:18 "I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you”. notice, the Lord said that he would not leave them “comfortless”. the Holy Spirit, God, is the comforter”. to make it clear, is not the Lord Jesus the mediator?, YES, is not a mediator is an advocate?, yes, (1 John 2:1 & 2). and what is an advocate, let's see, G3875 παράκλητος parakletos (pa-ra'-klee-tos) n.
1. (properly) one called near (to give help).
2. an intercessor (one who entreats of behalf of another).
3. a comforter.
KJV: advocate, comforter

there he is, an advocate is the comforter. the Lord Jesus Christ is our advocate, (1 John 2:1), which makes him our COMFORTER, God himself. so clearly we see the Lord Jesus in his first of his two returns. first in spirit, next in,........ we will see it now.

the BODILY RETURN.

The second of his two fold return will be in bodily form, and all eyes to see him. the first return was not visually observed by all eyes, (the world). for he returned in spirit, (abstract form). his next, or the second of his two fold return will be visually seen by everyone in (concrete form), and all the world, or every eye will see him. scripture, Revelation 1:7 "Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen”. this is the return everyone knows about and is waiting for. understand, this return is yet to happen. most Christians call this return the rapture for his church. 1 Thessalonians 4:16 "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words”. another supporting scripture of the Lord’s two fold return, Hebrews 9:28 "So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation". this is the second scripture confirming the second two fold coming of our Lord and Saviour, Jesus the Christ.

Conclusion: with this first of his two fold returns already done, we who are alive look for his second coming in flesh and bones. we know that the Lord JESUS is the Spirit, the comforter, the Holy Spirit, here how. as a man, (which is his own image that was to come, he sits in heaven as our high priest, making intercession on our behalf, as the mediator). scripture, 1Ti 2:5 "For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus". is this one God, diversified, the man JESUS?, Gal 3:20 "Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one". so this first of his two fold return is fulfilled, without doubt, now we look for his second fold coming, or return, Amen.

First RETURN in Spirit, only a MANIFESTATION. Second Fold Return in Bodily Form all eyes see him.

very easy to understand.

any question just ask.

PCY.

 

[DAH]

..............................

First RETURN in Spirit, only a MANIFESTATION. Second Fold Return in Bodily Form all eyes see him.

very easy to understand.

any question just ask.

PCY.[/QUOTE]

HaHa - I totally forgot what this orignal post was all about and have no idea how we got to a two-fold theory....but Okay - I see your two-fold, 1 spiritual and 1 physical and raise you my Two-Fold, both physical....

A. At the end of the church age Jesus will return in the air for His people ( 1
Thess. 1:10; 2:19; 3:13; 4:13-18; 1 Cor. 15:51-57).
1. At this time the bodies of departed believers will be changed from corruption to
incorruption (1 Cor. 15:52a).
2. At this time the bodies of living believers will be changed from mortal to
immortality (1 Cor. 15:52b).

B. At the end of the Great Tribulation Jesus will return to the earth with His people. This
He will do to accomplish the following:
1. To defeat the antichrist and the assembled nations at the Battle of Armageddon
(Rev. 19:17-21)
2. To regather, regenerate, and restore fruitful Israel (Isa. 43:5, 6; Ezek. 36:28;
Amos 9:14, 15)
3. To judge and punish faithless Israel (Ezek. 11:21; 20:38; Mt. 24:44-51; 25:1, 2, 24-30)
4. To separate the sheep from the goats (Mt. 25:31-33)
5. To bind Satan (Rom. 16:20; Rev. 20:1-3)
6. To resurrect Old Testament and tribulation saints (Job 19:25, 26; Isa. 26:19;
Hosea 13:14)
7. To judge fallen angels (1 Cor. 6:3)
8. To reward His followers (Isa. 40:10; Mt. 5:12; 16:27; Rev. 22:12)
9. To personally minister to the needs of His people (Isa. 35:5, 6; 40:11; 49:10, 11)
10. To redeem fallen nature (Rom. 8:19-22)
11. To usher in and rule over the glorious thousand-year earthly kingdom (Dan. 7:13,
14; Lk. 1:30-33; Isa. 2:4; 11:6-9; 40:5; Rev. 11:15; 20:4)

 

[101G]

I'll answer you one step at a time.

HaHa - I totally forgot what this orignal post was all about and have no idea how we got to a two-fold theory

this is how,

Actually, Jesus told His disciples that He didn’t know the day or the hour these events would take place in Matthew 24:36....so he lied?

that's how we got to the two fold return.

then U said,

A. At the end of the church age Jesus will return in the air for His people ( 1
Thess. 1:10; 2:19; 3:13; 4:13-18; 1 Cor. 15:51-57).
1. At this time the bodies of departed believers will be changed from corruption to
incorruption (1 Cor. 15:52a).
2. At this time the bodies of living believers will be changed from mortal to
immortality (1 Cor. 15:52b).

and with B and the rest.

see DAH the Lord Jesus came on Pentecost and tried to gather his people, supportive scripture, Isaiah 11:11 "And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria, and from Egypt, and from Pathros, and from Cush, and from Elam, and from Shinar, and from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea". and those folk from these places was there on pentecoast.

the Scripture, notice Isaiah said, "the Lord"... (smile). and who came on Pentecost? that's RIGHT the Spirit. but didn't Isaiah say the "Lord". for the Lord is the Spirit, scripture, 2 Corinthians 3:17 "Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty".

see this answers your Matthews 24 as well as it answered the mark 9:1.

so the Gospel preached to Abraham, is the Same gospel preached to the Jews, as well to the Gentiles. no other Gospel. listen, Galatians 1:6 "I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:

Galatians 1:7 "Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.

Galatians 1:8 "But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

Galatians 1:9 "As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

if Peter preached another gospel to Cornelius, the centurion, God forbid, then Peter is accursed.

but they preached the same thing. Galatians 2:9 "And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.

Galatians 2:10 "Only they would that we should remember the poor; the same which I also was forward to do.

what's the difference in the Gospel here with they of the circumcision, and they of the uncircumcision? no difference. Romans 3:9 "What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin".

Romans 3:29 "Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:

Romans 3:30 "Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith".

PCY.

PS Good conversation, again thanks.

 

[bbyrd009]

Two-Fold, both physical

funny, i've been led to interpret the Bible dialectically for the last year or so, and i would have thought this would go with that (a little joke there ) really well. Anyway, sounds a lot like @H. Richard , wonder why he isn't in here yet.

Anyway, i finally tracked down the 'this and that' thing, but from a guy who apparently treats the article the same; he seems to be saying "this or that," as may be read at the bottom of either page,
"This demonstrative pronoun corresponds to the demonstrative pronoun ουτος (houtos), meaning this or that."
ο | Abarim Publications Theological Dictionary (New Testament Greek)
ο | Abarim Publications Theological Dictionary (New Testament Greek)

so i wonder if you might comment there, ty.
But i will say your comparo above is compelling, even if i don't quite get the point;

Knowing what makes the gospel of the grace of God different is necessary to make our message clear enough so that God’s will be done

certainly seems like "this" will only do the opposite

making an article accusative rather than genitive seems like a thin reason to hang a doctrine on, but if it produces fruit (besides just more division) then amen, you certainly seem as nice as HR. And dialecticism compels me to listen here. Unfortunately i don't hold many of your literal beliefs about the future, so i'm having to ignore that too, but ty for the attn here, and if you could reiterate the point that would be cool. Division is the only fruit i see from this so far?

 

[bbyrd009]

are there two gospels? - Google Search

 

[101G]

are there two gospels? - Google Search

Thanks, I'm still going over it. that's a Good read.

PCY.

 

[bbyrd009]

The Kingdom Gospel did not include gentiles being saved by faith alone. In fact the 12 were commanded to avoid the gentiles

as mentioned on the other thread though, Jesus went to Samaritans and spent a couple days with them? Do you think He taught them a diff gospel?

 

[101G]

are there two gospels? - Google Search

this is why I don't believe in Replacement theology of Israel.

in #6 it gives some good reasons why. #6. "It robs the true Jews of their greatest riches"

question who is a JEW? the answer, Romans 2:28 "For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:

Romans 2:29 "But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God".

the writer made a good point about, "Just ask any ethnic Jew who has come to believe in the Messiah whether his greatest treasure is Christ, or a share in a thousand year physical kingdom that will be reserved for ethnic Israel alone".

this has been my point all along, the treasure of JEW and Gentiles is of the heart by and through FAITH. I pointed this out before with Capt Cornelius. scripture, Acts 10:4 "And when he looked on him, he was afraid, and said, What is it, Lord? And he said unto him, Thy prayers and thine alms are come up for a memorial before God".

cross reference this scripture with Malachi 3:16-18, listen. "Then they that feared the LORD spake often one to another: and the LORD hearkened, and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before him for them that feared the LORD, and that thought upon his name.

Malachi 3:17 "And they shall be mine, saith the LORD of hosts, in that day when I make up my jewels; and I will spare them, as a man spareth his own son that serveth him.

Malachi 3:18 "Then shall ye return, and discern between the righteous and the wicked, between him that serveth God and him that serveth him not.

Capt Cornelius and his household FEARED God. and the angel said that his prayers and alms came up before God as a memorial. and God said a book of "REMEMBRANCE" was written

here's the revelation. Remembrance means memorial. another word for memorial is remembrance:

MemoralG3422 μνημόσυνον mnemosunon (mnee-mo-sï '-non) n.
a reminder (memorandum), i.e. record.
[from G3421]
KJV: memorial

and a memorandum is a note or record made for future use. (the BOOK in Malachi 3:16 is the NOTE or RECORD.)

and in Malachi 3:16 a book of "remembrance" is,
H2146 זִכרוֹן zikrown (zik-rone') n-m.
a memento (or memorable thing, day or writing).
[from H2142]
KJV: memorial, record.

the same thing.

PCY.

 

[101G]

as mentioned on the other thread though, Jesus went to Samaritans and spent a couple days with them? Do you think He taught them a diff gospel?

that's correct, was it not of FAITH? listen to the record.

Matthew 15:21 "Then Jesus went thence, and departed into the coasts of Tyre and Sidon.

Matthew 15:22 "And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou Son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil.

Matthew 15:23 "But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us.

Matthew 15:24 "But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Matthew 15:25 "Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me.

Matthew 15:26 "But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs.

Matthew 15:27 "And she said, Truth, Lord: yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters' table.

Matthew 15:28 "Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great is thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was made whole from that very hour.

those natural fleshly Jews look upon these people as outcast, but the Lord Jesus, using the words of the Jews, that called them dogs, gave a teaching class to his disciples. BY FAITH one must come to GOD. supportive scripture, Hebrews 11:6 "But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him".

did not the woman SEEK him? Matthew 15:25 "Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me".

John 3:16, "WHOSOEVER". nuff said.

PCY.

 

[bbyrd009]

however imo we can't ignore that Ananias and Sapphira dropped dead, 101. What do you think there?

 

[101G]

however imo we can't ignore that Ananias and Sapphira dropped dead, 101. What do you think there?

what I think?....... .....Let's check the record,

1 Corinthians 6:9 "Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

1 Corinthians 6:10 "Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

1 Corinthians 6:11 "And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God".

was not Ananias and Sapphira thieves? let's check the record,

Acts 5:1 "But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession,

Acts 5:2 "And kept back part of the price, his wife also being privy to it, and brought a certain part, and laid it at the apostles' feet.

Acts 5:3 "But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?".

not only were they thieves, but hey were liers. well, let's check the record on liers. Psalms 101:7 "He that worketh deceit shall not dwell within my house: he that telleth lies shall not tarry in my sight.

well that will do it, meaning keep you out of the Kingdom.

now one more, Proverbs 6:16 "These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:

Proverbs 6:17 "A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,
(that lying tongue got em again...... .)

Proverbs 6:18 "An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,
Proverbs 6:19 "A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.

his wife witness to him in a lie. well I believe that answers Ananias and Sapphira

 

[DAH]

as mentioned on the other thread though, Jesus went to Samaritans and spent a couple days with them? Do you think He taught them a diff gospel?

Do I think Jesus taught them about belief in his death, burial and resurrection with no need for works in order to gain salvation (1 Cor 15:1-4)? No, I don't think that.

This woman at the well, unlike the woman he referred to a dog - was a despised Samaritan. A schism within the Jewish line - note that this Samaritan woman identifies herself as a child of the 12-tribes as she talks with Jesus at Jacob's well. The same well that sustained Jacob, his family and cattle for many years - sustained with water....low and behold, living water, just like Jesus. He chose that well and that woman for a purpose:

John 4:12
(KJV Strong's)
12 -- Art thou greater than our father Jacob, which gave us the well, and drank thereof himself, and his children, and his cattle?

So was she fully out of bounds....a decedent of Jacob...I don't think so.