The whole world will be deceived

[Waiting on him]

That's a popular tradition taught in many pulpits, based on the event of Satan using Apostle Peter to tempt our Lord Jesus.

But God's Word reveals that 'son of perdition' will be Satan himself, for the only one born in the flesh that has done great signs and miracles to show peoples from all nations that He is God is our Lord Jesus Christ. And the Antichrist which Paul warned us about there in 2 Thessalonians 2 is one who will work great signs and lying wonders, meaning a fake on the level of power like our Lord Jesus worked when on earth at His first coming. Even in Matthew 24:23-26 our Lord Jesus warned of the level of supernatural working that coming pseudo-Christ will work, that if possible it would deceive even Christ's very elect.

So no, that won't be some flesh born man; it will be Satan himself on earth, in our dimension, working those great signs and wonders while claiming to be God and over all that is worshiped or called God, like Paul showed. Paul even used the idea of the "another Jesus" in 2 Corinthians 11 to reveal this, and said that Satan comes disguised as an angel of light (KJV "transformed" actually means 'disguised' in the Greek).

The false messengers come with a false gospel. This is the supposed LIGHT.
They come as an angel. The def of angel is messenger. Messenger of light

 

[FHII]

When did Peter and the apostles receive the Holy Spirit?

John 20:22. This was after the resurrection. I fully trust they believed at that point.

Peter says; “Therefore, if God gave them the same gift that He also gave to us when we believed on the Lord Jesus Christ, how could I possibly hinder God?”” (Acts 11:17)

He was retelling of his meeting with Cornelius. Here is a pertinent verse from the previous chapter:

Acts 10:44 KJV
While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

Peter was preaching to them and they heard the word. This is when the Holy Ghost fell on them. The verse says they "heard" the word. That is past tense. I suppose you could say it was during the hearing, but clearly they didn't receive the Holy Ghost before they believe. At best it was during, but most likely it was after they heard.

According to Romans 10:14, believing requires hearing him through a preacher. That's exactly what happened.

Later they were baptized. That came after hearing and the Holy Ghost falling on them. It makes me wonder if you believe you must be baptized in order to believe. That's not an accusation, just wondering if thats the case.

Was Peter's audience in Acts 2:38 made up of born again Jews, believers? Yes, or they would not have asked for instructions about what to do.

I disagree.

We both know the account. Acts 2:1-13 tells that they were all filled with the Holy Ghost. But that doesn't mean everyone in attendance. People believe all means just that: every one; so do I. Unless there are conditions attached to it. Such a condition is found in verse 13:

Acts 2:13 KJV
Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine.

This was Peter's audience. They obviously did not speak in other tongues and werent filled with the Holy Ghost.

Peter preached to them, then they asked what to do. Peter replied repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Those who spoke in other tongues believed before they were filled with the Holy Ghost. They that weren't believers (the mockers) heard Peter's sermon and then asked for instruction. Did they believe? Well they believed enough to ask what to do next.

I am a little disappointed you did not directly discuss Eph 1:13. It seems whenever I ask about that verse folks want to redirect to conversation elsewhere. Again, if anyone wants to discuss this vversewith the frame of reference being whether we must receice the Holy Ghost before we believe, I would love to hear your thoughts.

Otherwise, I have 2 questions:

1. When the Bible says, ".. The promise of the Holy Ghost..." what is the promise?
2. When the Bible says, "... The gift of the Holy Ghost..." what is the gift?

Sorry for such a long post.

 

[Dave L]

John 20:22. This was after the resurrection. I fully trust they believed at that point.


He was retelling of his meeting with Cornelius. Here is a pertinent verse from the previous chapter:

Acts 10:44 KJV
While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

Peter was preaching to them and they heard the word. This is when the Holy Ghost fell on them. The verse says they "heard" the word. That is past tense. I suppose you could say it was during the hearing, but clearly they didn't receive the Holy Ghost before they believe. At best it was during, but most likely it was after they heard.

According to Romans 10:14, believing requires hearing him through a preacher. That's exactly what happened.

Later they were baptized. That came after hearing and the Holy Ghost falling on them. It makes me wonder if you believe you must be baptized in order to believe. That's not an accusation, just wondering if thats the case.


I disagree.

We both know the account. Acts 2:1-13 tells that they were all filled with the Holy Ghost. But that doesn't mean everyone in attendance. People believe all means just that: every one; so do I. Unless there are conditions attached to it. Such a condition is found in verse 13:

Acts 2:13 KJV
Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine.

This was Peter's audience. They obviously did not speak in other tongues and werent filled with the Holy Ghost.

Peter preached to them, then they asked what to do. Peter replied repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Those who spoke in other tongues believed before they were filled with the Holy Ghost. They that weren't believers (the mockers) heard Peter's sermon and then asked for instruction. Did they believe? Well they believed enough to ask what to do next.

I am a little disappointed you did not directly discuss Eph 1:13. It seems whenever I ask about that verse folks want to redirect to conversation elsewhere. Again, if anyone wants to discuss this vversewith the frame of reference being whether we must receice the Holy Ghost before we believe, I would love to hear your thoughts.

Otherwise, I have 2 questions:

1. When the Bible says, ".. The promise of the Holy Ghost..." what is the promise?
2. When the Bible says, "... The gift of the Holy Ghost..." what is the gift?

Sorry for such a long post.

You are confusing the New Birth (Holy Spirit) in the heart of all believers, with the Baptism of the Holy Spirit which happens to any believer when they repent and walk after the Spirit and not after the flesh.

 

[FHII]

You are confusing the New Birth (Holy Spirit) in the heart of all believers, with the Baptism of the Holy Spirit which happens to any believer when they repent and walk after the Spirit and not after the flesh.

You are confusing the holy spirit with the spiritual man.

 

[Taken]

Otherwise, I have 2 questions:

1. When the Bible says, ".. The promise of the Holy Ghost..." what is the promise?

In brief ~
A promise of enlightment for one who hears, and measures of faith for believing what they hear.
(More to the point of the Holy Spirit being UPON them.)

And more specific to the point;
The man can STOP hearing, STOP believing, STOP receiving enlightment, STOP receiving measures of faith, and be called, having fallen from faith.

2. When the Bible says, "... The gift of the Holy Ghost..." what is the gift?

In brief ~

The "GIFT" of the Holy Spirit of God, is specifically a man having received "the INDWELLING" Spirit of God.

^ That is preceeded by, hearing, being enlightened, believing the Word of God, and then electing to COMMIT by a True heartfelt Confession, Of their belief.....and thereafter having received the INDWELLING Holy Spirit...

Which is the method of Gods design, that the man is forever in FAITH- "FULLNESS" unto God forever, BY His Indwelling POWER to keep them SEALED unto Him Forever.
(Precisely to the Point of the Holy Spirit being WITHIN them).

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Davy]

The messenger of Satan in Corinthians was a judaizer. This man was the thorn in Paul’s flesh. As for the lying signs and wonders, visit your local charismatic church.

That's an application totally... out of the context of Scripture.

 

[Dave L]

You are confusing the holy spirit with the spiritual man.

If you understand the Spiritual Man is the repentant Holy Spirit baptized man, then yes. But those who have the Holy Spirit are not baptized in the Holy Spirit while walking after the flesh.

 

[Davy]

The false messengers come with a false gospel. This is the supposed LIGHT.
They come as an angel. The def of angel is messenger. Messenger of light

The false apostles which Apostle Paul spoke of in 2 Corinthians 11 involve their master Satan who disguises himself as an angel of light. And that is who Paul there pointed to as the "another Jesus".

2 Cor 11:2-4
2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.

3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.
KJV

And that is what those who try to confuse what Paul's warning there is about, i.e.., being deceived by the "serpent" Satan with the gospel of "another Jesus".


2 Cor 11:13-14
13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.

14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
KJV

 

[Davy]

Ok

Whether the events have happened or not, it doesn’t negate the fact that A&E were deceived and their acquired tendency to be deceived has been past down throughout the history of humanity. Christ opens eyes, but he does not erase this tendency - instead, he tells us to practice our sanctification by loving others in spite of it.

I fail to understand your seeming slackness at n2thelight's point about NT Scripture concerning the coming beast kingdom and dragon over all nations and peoples which our Heavenly Father began warning us about in the Book of Daniel, and which our Lord Jesus and His Apostles repeated in the New Testament for the end of this world.

 

[aspen]

I fail to understand your seeming slackness at n2thelight's point about NT Scripture concerning the coming beast kingdom and dragon over all nations and peoples which our Heavenly Father began warning us about in the Book of Daniel, and which our Lord Jesus and His Apostles repeated in the New Testament for the end of this world.

Humanity has a strong tendency to be deceived from the beginning; why is it a surprise that many will be deceived at the end?

 

[Davy]

Humanity has a strong tendency to be deceived from the beginning; why is it a surprise that many will be deceived at the end?

Still not the point. Our Lord Jesus and His Apostles warned us beforehand about the coming events for the end of this world, and that we should pay attention to. He even commanded us to 'watch', and don't allow any man to deceive us.

Even though it appears today more on the Pre-trib Rapture fly away doctrine of man are paying more attention to events leading up to the end, that doctrine originally stressed more that we didn't have need to watch, but just be ready, because Jesus could come 'at any moment'. That's how that doctrine also got the nickname "the any moment doctrine".

 

[aspen]

Still not the point. Our Lord Jesus and His Apostles warned us beforehand about the coming events for the end of this world, and that we should pay attention to. He even commanded us to 'watch', and don't allow any man to deceive us.

Even though it appears today more on the Pre-trib Rapture fly away doctrine of man are paying more attention to events leading up to the end, that doctrine originally stressed more that we didn't have need to watch, but just be ready, because Jesus could come 'at any moment'. That's how that doctrine also got the nickname "the any moment doctrine".

No. I was asking a question and you appear to be dismissing it, which is fine - it is your choice.

 

[FHII]

In brief ~
A promise of enlightment for one who hears, and measures of faith for believing what they hear.
(More to the point of the Holy Spirit being UPON them.)

And more specific to the point;
The man can STOP hearing, STOP believing, STOP receiving enlightment, STOP receiving measures of faith, and be called, having fallen from faith.



In brief ~

The "GIFT" of the Holy Spirit of God, is specifically a man having received "the INDWELLING" Spirit of God.

^ That is preceeded by, hearing, being enlightened, believing the Word of God, and then electing to COMMIT by a True heartfelt Confession, Of their belief.....and thereafter having received the INDWELLING Holy Spirit...

Which is the method of Gods design, that the man is forever in FAITH- "FULLNESS" unto God forever, BY His Indwelling POWER to keep them SEALED unto Him Forever.
(Precisely to the Point of the Holy Spirit being WITHIN them).

God Bless,
Taken

I like it.... My answer is the the promise of the Holy spirit IS the Holy Spirit. The gift of the Holy Spirit IS the Holy Spirit. I think we are on the same page with different wording.

The Holy Spirit may have promises and gifts, but the phrase, "the promise/gift of the Holy Spirit" isn't speaking of them.

Not sure if some of the others I've recently conversed with understand this.

 

[Keraz]

Isaiah 66:4 I also will choose their delusions, and will bring their fears upon them; because when I called, no one answered; when I spoke, they did not hear: but they did evil before My eyes, and chose what displeased Me. Ezekiel 20:25

The prevalent error is in thinking that the Israel visible today is still the chosen of God. Wrong; they un-chose themselves, Matthew 27:25 and now it is every born again Christian, who belongs to the new nation of God's people. Matthew 21:43

With the rapture cult, the initial error is that of separating Israel and the Church, so they could still look for salvation to come to ethnic Israel, as a major tenet of their doctrine: Israel on earth, the Church in heaven. The pre-Trib rapture teaches removal to ensure survival from tribulation, but salvation has always been stated to redeem us from our fallen sinful state, in our earthly situation.

Acts 20:21 I know that when I am gone, savage wolves will come in among you and will not spare the flock. 2 Peter 2:1-3, 2 Timothy 4:3-4

The rapture idea is that God will “save us” from that which must occur – thus equating this supposed removal with salvation. After so many Christians saw the inadequacy and misappropriation of the verses used to promote Pre-Trib, the Post-Trib alternative was then built around surviving the tribulation – thus sustaining the illusion that survival is somehow related to salvation.

A strong delusion is mentioned in the New Testament: 2 Thessalonians 2:11 And for this reason God shall send them a strong delusion, that they should believe a lie.

This delusion has people looking forward to the 2nd Coming (in the so called rapture to heaven, Pre, Mid, or Post) believing in a rapture removal from the earth. The reality is, we experience His glorious salvation when we enter in to the blessed assurance that Christ’s Death means the penalty for our sin has been paid because of His sacrifice on the Cross. Ever since then, believers must trust in Jesus for their salvation and for their protection during the testing times to come. Isaiah 43:2, Psalms 31:23-24

And if the Lord does not save them, just as has happened to the millions of martyrs in the last 2 centuries, then we must die trusting in His promise of resurrection. Revelation 12:11, Revelation 13:10 Our souls will be kept under the heavenly Altar, Revelation 6:9-11, and Jesus will bring them with Him at His Return, then bring us to life again, to reign with Him for 1000 years. Revelation 20:4

Jesus said: take care that you be not deceived..... Seems that many have been rather careless!

 

[Taken]

I like it.... My answer is the the promise of the Holy spirit IS the Holy Spirit. The gift of the Holy Spirit IS the Holy Spirit. I think we are on the same page with different wording.

Agree.

The Holy Spirit may have promises and gifts, but the phrase, "the promise/gift of the Holy Spirit" isn't speaking of them.

Agree.

Not sure if some of the others I've recently conversed with understand this.

Ditto.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Nancy]

Agree.



Agree.



Ditto.

God Bless,
Taken

You are so agreeable Taken! lol.

 

[Davy]

No. I was asking a question and you appear to be dismissing it, which is fine - it is your choice.

What question did I dismiss?