The Work of The Holy Spirit

[Episkopos]

And that's the verse that signals it. Not all of Israel is actually Israel according to God.

And not all are of Christ who are called Christian.

 

[Episkopos]

People tend to fear the unknown. So then anything supernatural is suspect among they who don't have that personal connection to God through the Spirit.

And to makes things worse there are parts of the church that indeed have embraced the false spirituality.

So all this makes the road very narrow indeed. So much so that it would seem impossible to have the right way of seeing supernatural things and discerning what is of God and what isn't. The waters have been muddied.

So how can the Holy Spirit work in the church? Very subtly. Anything overtly supernatural would be seen as suspect.

 

[Giuliano]

not all who are born Israel are of Israel though right

love your avatar btw :)

As far as I know, 144,000 souls are the original Israel. And?

 

[stunnedbygrace]

And that's the verse that signals it. Not all of Israel is actually Israel according to God.

And, in fact, it is a lack of guile that Jesus noted in a man He called a true Israelite.

But the useless conversation/way of life we were taught by our parents, which stretches clear back to Adam and eve, is chock full of a guile that is ever trying to spin things to come out looking better or innocent.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

not all who are born Israel are of Israel though right

love your avatar btw :)

Consider Revelation 3:8-10 tells a lot:

“I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name. [9] Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee. [10] Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.”

(imo)It is not an ugly condemning of; God will take them by the hair and force them to submit and worship at their feet ...but instead “to know that I loved thee”. Consider what you share often of the feet. But importantly: “I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie;”

Which say they have been born from above, born of the New Jerusalem seen above...yet kept not the word nor doing what He says... in blessing you will be blessed, in mercy you will obtain mercy. Instead flesh rules and they war, and kill, and try to obtain but ask amiss that they may consume it on their own lust (the synagogue of Satan). Remember Jesus saying to Peter “Get BEHIND Me Satan” ...people won’t like that but the above said “hast not denied my name.”
Satan wanted to sift Peter as wheat. Peter denied the Lord three times. But after conversion (the Lord said I prayed your faith fails not) Peter would do by the power of the Spirit of God what Peter could not do before conversion. Go into prison, death, laying down his life for the Lord.

“which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.”
1 Peter 1:7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:

That say they are Jews and are not ...has many perspectives to consider. One being in do we say we are ...yet deny His name in deeds?

 

[bbyrd009]

That say they are Jews and are not ...has many perspectives to consider. One being in do we say we are ...yet deny His name in deeds?

ha well i do at least, yes

 

[VictoryinJesus]

ha well i do at least, yes

Not sure what you mean? Do you mean not taking the mark of the beast and worshipping man instead of God? Can you clarify? One thing that has stood out is Joseph and how his brothers came to bow before him. They forgot it wasn’t Joseph who stored up for the famine and prepared the store but instead God. They meant evil against their brother but God meant it for good, to save many alive. Wasn’t until recently it also maybe became clear they didn’t (the tribes) go unpunished but went into bondage as they had sold their brother into. Genesis 50:19 And Joseph said unto them, Fear not: for am I in the place of God?

Two other times the similar is said:
Genesis 30:1-2 And when Rachel saw that she bare Jacob no children, Rachel envied her sister; and said unto Jacob, Give me children, or else I die. [2] And Jacob's anger was kindled against Rachel: and he said, Am I in God's stead, who hath withheld from thee the fruit of the womb?

Job 33:6 Behold, I am according to thy wish in God's stead: I also am formed out of the clay.

Worshipping clay or God? Maybe you meant nothing there in “denial” but if so can you share the perspective?

 

[bbyrd009]

One being in do we say we are ...yet deny His name in deeds?

ha well i do at least, yes

for clarification

Do you mean not taking the mark of the beast and worshipping man instead of God? Can you clarify

i mean taking the mark, and worshipping man, "serving my country" we call it now i guess, yes, i did those things, and i find myself pretty much exclusively plowing my own ground today too!

Genesis 30:1-2 And when Rachel saw that she bare Jacob no children, Rachel envied her sister; and said unto Jacob, Give me children, or else I die. [2] And Jacob's anger was kindled against Rachel: and he said, Am I in God's stead, who hath withheld from thee the fruit of the womb?

this and the previous one are um much better understood as commentaries on our male and female sides, and our "sons" and "daughters," spiritually speaking. imo.

Job 33:6 Behold, I am according to thy wish in God's stead: I also am formed out of the clay.

Worshipping clay or God? Maybe you meant nothing there in “denial” but if so can you share the perspective?

ok, the Job passage is a whole diff can of worms, and i am not overjoyed at that tranny, "according to thy wish in God's stead" is um not what the original was saying imo, at least in todays english. That was Elihu talking there? ya...and we would first have to spend like the rest of the day understanding Elihu's ("God is Yahu" <a personal fave> or perhaps "He is my God") role in the matter of Job, the man "Righteous in his own eyes," which would require us to first understand that Job was in sin and reaped ezackly what he sowed, which which Prot is going to sit still for that lol right.

but to attempt some sort of reply imo the v has been misinterped, bc misxlated, and so the Q is moot, sorry. "Worshipping clay" is not in view imo, and all of these men spoke what they "knew," satan's dialectic iow, which iow closely mirrors our (not yours and mine right now) forum interactions today, mostly all stating "facts" and agreeing with each other--if at all--in raised voices?

 

[bbyrd009]

Job 33:6 Behold, I am according to thy wish in God's stead: I also am formed out of the clay.

Worshipping clay or God? Maybe you meant nothing there in “denial” but if so can you share the perspective?

ok, the Job passage is a whole diff can of worms, and i am not overjoyed at that tranny, "according to thy wish in God's stead" is um not what the original was saying imo, at least in todays english. That was Elihu talking there? ya...and we would first have to spend like the rest of the day understanding Elihu's ("God is Yahu" <a personal fave> or perhaps "He is my God") role in the matter of Job, the man "Righteous in his own eyes," which would require us to first understand that Job was in sin and reaped ezackly what he sowed, which which Prot is going to sit still for that lol right.

but to attempt some sort of reply imo the v has been misinterped, bc misxlated, and so the Q is moot, sorry. "Worshipping clay" is not in view imo, and all of these men spoke what they "knew," satan's dialectic iow, which iow closely mirrors our (not yours and mine right now) forum interactions today, mostly all stating "facts" and agreeing with each other--if at all--in raised voices?

Not sure what you mean? Do you mean not taking the mark of the beast and worshipping man instead of God? Can you clarify? One thing that has stood out is Joseph and how his brothers came to bow before him. They forgot it wasn’t Joseph who stored up for the famine and prepared the store but instead God. They meant evil against their brother but God meant it for good, to save many alive. Wasn’t until recently it also maybe became clear they didn’t (the tribes) go unpunished but went into bondage as they had sold their brother into. Genesis 50:19 And Joseph said unto them, Fear not: for am I in the place of God?

Two other times the similar is said:
Genesis 30:1-2 And when Rachel saw that she bare Jacob no children, Rachel envied her sister; and said unto Jacob, Give me children, or else I die. [2] And Jacob's anger was kindled against Rachel: and he said, Am I in God's stead, who hath withheld from thee the fruit of the womb?

 

[bbyrd009]

Job 33:6 Behold, I am according to thy wish in God's stead: I also am formed out of the clay.

Worshipping clay or God? Maybe you meant nothing there in “denial” but if so can you share the perspective?

which i hope i did not give the impression that i get Job ok, bc i sure do not. What i have discovered is that despite what is widely believed it likely predates the rest of our Bible, it is the first "poetic" Book, and Job repented of something, twice, that God seemed to immediately contradict. I get some very tiny pieces, maybe

 

[VictoryinJesus]

ok, the Job passage is a whole diff can of worms, and i am not overjoyed at that tranny, "according to thy wish in God's stead" is um not what the original was saying imo, at least in todays english. That was Elihu talking there? ya...and we would first have to spend like the rest of the day understanding Elihu's ("God is Yahu" <a personal fave> or perhaps "He is my God") role in the matter of Job, the man "Righteous in his own eyes," which would require us to first understand that Job was in sin and reaped ezackly what he sowed, which which Prot is going to sit still for that lol right.

but to attempt some sort of reply imo the v has been misinterped, bc misxlated, and so the Q is moot, sorry. "Worshipping clay" is not in view imo, and all of these men spoke what they "knew," satan's dialectic iow, which iow closely mirrors our (not yours and mine right now) forum interactions today, mostly all stating "facts" and agreeing with each other--if at all--in raised voices?

“but to attempt some sort of reply imo the v has been misinterped, bc misxlated, and so the Q is moot, sorry.”

You don’t have to apologize for my error. I’m glad you pointed it out. Still not clear as I wasn’t familiar with the mistranslation(that happens to me a lot).
I will hold lightly here so not saying it is right...but I like Elihu and what he says. Elihu is different from the others. Two quotes from google which may be sketchy but some of it maybe not so far off: Elihu is: My God is He. Elihu was a young man in the biblical Book of Job who gave fiery defense of God's righteousness. Elihu also refers to a superhuman intermediary who will help restore Job to God. Elihu ends his arguments by stressing God's omnipotence and justice.

Elihu was the younger of the elders...and waited to speak ...there were three friends then a fourth. Where did he come from? Not that they are connected but it does make me think of the fiery furnace and the fourth in the form of the Son of God.

Job 33:6 Hebrew Text Analysis

“Spokesman” sounds very similar to advocate. But it is not just that one verse which, yes, may be mistranslated; it is the depth of Elihu’s words which also make me consider the daysman. Job 9:32-33 For he (God)is not a man, as I am, that I should answer him, and we should come together in judgment. [33] Neither is there any daysman betwixt us, that might lay his hand upon us both.

So the “thy wish in God’s stead” or “thy wish in God’s place” may be wrong or mistranslated. But haven’t we asked for that? An image of a man sitting on the throne? Same as they asked for a different king. Doesn’t man still often ask for a go between instead of praying directly to God?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

which i hope i did not give the impression that i get Job ok, bc i sure do not. What i have discovered is that despite what is widely believed it likely predates the rest of our Bible, it is the first "poetic" Book, and Job repented of something, twice, that God seemed to immediately contradict. I get some very tiny pieces, maybe

“Predates the rest of our Bible” this used to concern me as I doubted Job. Not any more. God’s words to Job alone make it necessary for the whole of the word. Get what you are saying about Job...it appears (imo) he was the same as Saul/Paul...who had his own righteousness and had heard of God but then sees Him.

 

[farouk]

“Predates the rest of our Bible” this used to concern me as I doubted Job. Not any more. God’s words to Job alone make it necessary for the whole of the word. Get what you are saying about Job...it appears (imo) he was the same as Saul/Paul...who had his own righteousness and had heard of God but then sees Him.

@VictoryinJesus
Job is amazing: "Though He slay me, yet will I trust in Him" (Job 13.15). True faith indeed.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

@VictoryinJesus
Job is amazing: "Though He slay me, yet will I trust in Him" (Job 13.15). True faith indeed.

farouk, hate to disagree but I might have to. Job 13:15 Though he slay me, yet will I trust in him: but I will maintain mine own ways before him.

I’ve always loved that verse too and still do, but it is the “but I will maintain mine own ways before him.”

 

[bbyrd009]

You don’t have to apologize for my error. I’m glad you pointed it out. Still not clear as I wasn’t familiar with the mistranslation(that happens to me a lot).

Queen James Anglish rolleyes

farouk, hate to disagree but I might have to. Job 13:15 Though he slay me, yet will I trust in him: but I will maintain mine own ways before him.

I’ve always loved that verse too and still do, but it is the “but I will maintain mine own ways before him.”

bada bing. Big clue to Job imo

Elihu was the younger of the elders...and waited to speak ...there were three friends then a fourth. Where did he come from? Not that they are connected but it does make me think of the fiery furnace and the fourth in the form of the Son of God.

ha, dont be so sure that they arent connected imo :)

it is the depth of Elihu’s words which also make me consider the daysman. Job 9:32-33 For he (God)is not a man, as I am, that I should answer him, and we should come together in judgment. [33] Neither is there any daysman betwixt us, that might lay his hand upon us both.

sorry, no idea what a "daysman" is?

So the “thy wish in God’s stead” or “thy wish in God’s place” may be wrong or mistranslated. But haven’t we asked for that? An image of a man sitting on the throne? Same as they asked for a different king. Doesn’t man still often ask for a go between instead of praying directly to God?

I am the same as you in God's sight
Look, you and I both belong to God
Behold, I am toward God as you are
I am just like you before God
Behold, I belong to God like you

Behold, I am according to thy wish in God's stead
the first five i get; the last one is gibberish to me, wadr, not saying it is misxlated or wrong for 200 years ago though, sorry didnt mean that
although i gotta agree with your point here, yup!

“Predates the rest of our Bible” this used to concern me as I doubted Job. Not any more. God’s words to Job alone make it necessary for the whole of the word. Get what you are saying about Job...it appears (imo) he was the same as Saul/Paul...who had his own righteousness and had heard of God but then sees Him.

ya, nice imo. That Job predates the rest of our Bible is a theory, but i guess it was maybe adapted from a much older tale, by Hammurabi i think? could be wrong

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Queen James Anglish rolleyes

bada bing. Big clue to Job imo

ha, dont be so sure that they arent connected imo :)
sorry, no idea what a "daysman" is?
I am the same as you in God's sight
Look, you and I both belong to God
Behold, I am toward God as you are
I am just like you before God
Behold, I belong to God like you

Behold, I am according to thy wish in God's stead
the first five i get; the last one is gibberish to me, wadr, not saying it is misxlated or wrong for 200 years ago though, sorry didnt mean that
although i gotta agree with your point here, yup!
ya, nice imo. That Job predates the rest of our Bible is a theory, but i guess it was maybe adapted from a much older tale, by Hammurabi i think? could be wrong

I look at it like...Job lamented that there was no mediator, right? So, he says, according to you wish, I am a man like you and have come in"stead" of God. To me, he is Jesus being foretold.

 

[bbyrd009]

“Predates the rest of our Bible” this used to concern me as I doubted Job. Not any more. God’s words to Job alone make it necessary for the whole of the word. Get what you are saying about Job...it appears (imo) he was the same as Saul/Paul...who had his own righteousness and had heard of God but then sees Him.

ya, nice imo. That Job predates the rest of our Bible is a theory, but i guess it was maybe adapted from a much older tale, Hammurabi

I look at it like...Job lamented that there was no mediator, right? So, he says, according to you wish, I am a man like you and have come in"stead" of God. To me, he is Jesus being foretold.

ah well, dang nice, ty, ill hafta think on that one a little. Seems to contradict the intent displayed in the first five to me right now

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Hmm...it doesn't go against the first statements to my mind...it's like..
Look at me, I'm fully human just like you. Like you, I have to depend on God.

Its like when Jesus (as a human) would say, why do you call me good, only God is good. I'm only doing what I see God doing. By the Holy Spirit I cast out demons. God has sent me and if you don't believe this, look at the miracles and understand that only God could do them.

 

[Ezra]

And take it up with Paul since he's the one who said all Israel will be saved.

once again to be saved you must be living have life/breath in you and a clear mind .not never has there ever been a person saved after they have died read your bible might i add this is not my thoughts but scripture

 

[Giuliano]

once again to be saved you must be living have life/breath in you and a clear mind .not never has there ever been a person saved after they have died read your bible might i add this is not my thoughts but scripture

I'll wait for the scripture.