The wrath of God

[shilohsfoal]

Luke 21;21-23
Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.


Jesus warns those inside of Judea to flee,and for his listeners outside of Judea not to enter .
In the bookof revelation those same listeners in Judea who are given the revelation of Jesus Christ are told the same thing.

Revelation 18;4
And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.


Thus we learn that those in Judea who worship the beast and his image and recieve his mark shall suffer the wrath of God.
It is at this time God shall avenge the blood of the saints and shall give them in Judea the cup of his wrath,

Rev 16;19
And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.

 

[shilohsfoal]

[sup]
[sup][/sup]Mathew 11
21[/sup]Woe unto thee, Chorazin! woe unto thee, Bethsaida! for if the mighty works, which were done in you, had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes.

[sup]22[/sup]But I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon at the day of judgment, than for you.

[sup]23[/sup]And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted unto heaven, shalt be brought down to hell: for if the mighty works, which have been done in thee, had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day.

[sup]24[/sup]But I say unto you, That it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment, than for thee. [sup]25[/sup]At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.



And so it will be more bearable for the people in the cities outside of the nation state of Israel than for those inside .
Yet these things are hidden from the wise and prudent and are revealed unto babes.
And trust me. You can say it over and over again but those who love the beast cant understand a thing Jesus is talking about .

The cities of Tyre and Capernum are only about 30 miles apart but they are located in different countries.

 

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Speaking of wrath.......

I sometimes listen to podcasts of sermons and lectures on apologetics. Recently one of them bothered me...

A well known preacher from a north Atlanta church said that the Ten Commandments, as well as all other moral and spiritual restrictions, are ONLY for believers.

"They aren't for non-Christians", he said.
"Moses didn't come down from the mounain and say that these commmandments were for all men for all time," the preacher also said.

Interesting thought.

He also said that Christians mistakenly INCLUDE all men under these laws and that this is the basis of an unfounded Christian judgmental attitude.

The logical extension from his argument is that God would not hold any man accountable for sin UNLESS he was a Jew or Christian.

Kinda tempts one to recant doesn't it? Yet this guy's church is very large and reasonably well known.

I have a problem with his 'gospel'. Do you?

 

[shilohsfoal]

Speaking of wrath.......

I sometimes listen to podcasts of sermons and lectures on apologetics. Recently one of them bothered me...

A well known preacher from a north Atlanta church said that the Ten Commandments, as well as all other moral and spiritual restrictions, are ONLY for believers.

"They aren't for non-Christians", he said.
"Moses didn't come down from the mounain and say that these commmandments were for all men for all time," the preacher also said.

Interesting thought.

He also said that Christians mistakenly INCLUDE all men under these laws and that this is the basis of an unfounded Christian judgmental attitude.

The logical extension from his argument is that God would not hold any man accountable for sin UNLESS he was a Jew or Christian.

Kinda tempts one to recant doesn't it? Yet this guy's church is very large and reasonably well known.

I have a problem with his 'gospel'. Do you?

I have a problem with it.

Luke 13;13
I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

I believe every single person would have to repent or they would perish.
I just cant see having everlasting life without Christ.

 

[Charlie]

Dear Shilohsfoal

I believe every single person would have to repent or they would perish.
I just cant see having everlasting life without Christ.

Charlie -- It is the soul of the believer that is 'saved' at the time of the death of the body.

The souls of all believers who have died, physically, are with the Lord, in heaven, as is the soul of the thief whose body died on the cross.

Luk 23:42-43 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom. And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

The thief's body died but his soul went to be with the Lord.

God Bless you. Charlie.

 

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Dear Shilohsfoal



Charlie -- It is the soul of the believer that is 'saved' at the time of the death of the body.

The souls of all believers who have died, physically, are with the Lord, in heaven, as is the soul of the thief whose body died on the cross.

Luk 23:42-43 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom. And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

The thief's body died but his soul went to be with the Lord.

God Bless you. Charlie.

The gospel you are quoting is a statement of faith of the World Church Tomorrow.

Salvation is a buzz word that needs to be redefined from one religion or philosophy to another in order to understand the concept under discussion.

According to the Bible, salvation of the human spirit is available NOW - before judgment, before death and during life.

"It is appointed unto men once to die and after that the judgment."
- Hebrews 9:27

If a man is judged immediately after the end of life, how then is he saved at that time? He is not. If he is not saved at the point of death, he has nothing to look forward to except an unhappy audience before the Almighty.

Have a read of the parable of the ten virgins in Mathew 25 beginning at the first verse. I won't quote the whole thing here, but the theme of the story is the same as the Boy Scout motto: be prepared. When the hammer eventually falls it will be too late!!! Today is the day of salvation.

The second birth is indeed a spiritual matter at its root, but I don't think anyone who has sunk into the sewers of life and been raised by the mercy of the blood of Christ will argue that it was a pretty good deal for his mind and body as well. Salvation is a holistic experience for spirit, mind and body. Granted that at some time mind and body will be shed like the husk of a caterpillar, it is nonetheless of benefit to the whole while life continues.

and that's just me, hollering from the choir loft...

 

[Floyd]

The gospel you are quoting is a statement of faith of the World Church Tomorrow.

Salvation is a buzz word that needs to be redefined from one religion or philosophy to another in order to understand the concept under discussion.

According to the Bible, salvation of the human spirit is available NOW - before judgment, before death and during life.

"It is appointed unto men once to die and after that the judgment."
- Hebrews 9:27

If a man is judged immediately after the end of life, how then is he saved at that time? He is not. If he is not saved at the point of death, he has nothing to look forward to except an unhappy audience before the Almighty.

Have a read of the parable of the ten virgins in Mathew 25 beginning at the first verse. I won't quote the whole thing here, but the theme of the story is the same as the Boy Scout motto: be prepared. When the hammer eventually falls it will be too late!!! Today is the day of salvation.

The second birth is indeed a spiritual matter at its root, but I don't think anyone who has sunk into the sewers of life and been raised by the mercy of the blood of Christ will argue that it was a pretty good deal for his mind and body as well. Salvation is a holistic experience for spirit, mind and body. Granted that at some time mind and body will be shed like the husk of a caterpillar, it is nonetheless of benefit to the whole while life continues.

and that's just me, hollering from the choir loft...

Soul and Spirit, The Error: (Separate study)

Floyd.

 

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Soul and Spirit, The Error: (Separate study)

Floyd.

The article quoted above is long and meandering. In my opinion it does not accomplish the task Floyd hoped it would - to define the frame of reference in which the words spirit and soul are used.

Unless of course the real intent is indeed obfuscation rather than clarification.

Secular use of the word 'soul' is confusing. I think anyone will admit to that. Generally speaking, though, 'soul' is equated with 'person', that individual you speak to face to face, work with, or meet at family reunions. That's the secular interpretation, one that even atheists would endorse. It implies and admits to nothing metaphysical.

Classically, the Greek philosophers Aristotle, Socrates and Plato considered the 'soul' to be a third element of being - beyond mind and body. It was described as semi-divine, a component that could survive the physical death of mind and body.

Biblical definitions of soul or spirit, like most other definitions in that book, are dependent upon the context in which they are used. Contextual interpretations are usually consistent with higher, more technical forms of communication as in modern languages. A red crayon, for example, is not the same thing as a red communist. That being said, we may proceed with only a very limited discussion of the Christian definition of soul and spirit. Such a discussion must, of necessity, consider its ultimate disposition in the ether of the metaphysical life - that which is referred to as final judgment.

The word soul is used in orthodox, traditional Christian interpretations of the Bible as meaning the holistic all inclusive living human being. But the definition isn't the same as the secular version mentioned above. Its more in line with the classic Greek version, meaning a unified whole of three separate elements; mind, body and spirit. It's therefore more accurate to use the word 'spirit', as this word more clearly implies a metaphysical elements - an eternal spiritual element.

Assuming the reader is in agreement with the notion that a living human being is part spirit, we may proceed to the ultimate disposition of this element upon the death of the first two; mind and body.

Most pantheistic religions do not respect the human spirit at all. At death, the human spirit becomes a disembodied ingredient in a universal soup. It becomes devoid of identity and is lost in history in one fashion or another. Oddly, this is very much like the Christians' interpretation as to what happens to one who does not accept Christ and the eternal salvation provided by God upon the cross. Many mentally ill living humans suffer the hellish experience of identity loss. Who has not suffered grievous torment who has had their digital identity stolen? Some suggest the fires of hell are indicative of a loss of identity. It certainly isn't good.

The gospel teaches that something dramatic happens at the point of death - judgment. If the human has not been spiritually regenerated during life, that which is called the second birth, then the Bible says that person is caste into hell. The one who IS regenerated is accepted into God's eternal kingdom. There are numerous references to this which I'll not quote here as I assume the reader is capable of finding them for himself.

The first lie told by the devil in Genesis 3 was that God is a liar. To this day men have accepted that idea as the final word in their judgment of what God is or is not about. Unfortunately, they have ignored all the rest of what God has to say about Himself, about us, and about what will or will not happen to us after death. Oddly, men seem to be very definite about something over which they have no control whatsoever - judgment. It is all up to God and God has made it very clear that He does indeed get very angry about some things. Those things are defined as SIN....and that is a discussion for another day I think. For today, though, the Bible is very clear on the message that God has ALWAYS been violently opposed to SIN and will root it out and destroy it at all costs - including that of His Son upon the cross.

Unfortunately the salvation of Christ will not be accepted by most. Jesus said that only a few will enter by the narrow gate and door. Most will take the wide road, the road built upon lies of human autonomy, and be destroyed.

Humans are NOT AUTONOMOUS. They do NOT decide the flow of history. Is God not called the Lord of Lords and King of Kings? What does this not imply if not the mastery of all history. Humans do NOT decide their own eternal fate apart from acceptance of Christ. In the words of Martin Luther, author of the protestant reformation, man is like a horse and he can only choose his rider - God or the devil.

Choose wisely, pilgrim. A great deal is at stake.

and that's just me, hollering from the choir loft...