The Wrath of the Lord

[Barrd]

Love corrects.
Wise men appreciate correction.
Fools are incapable of changing their tune.

Are you in a position to correct?
Can you tell me that you are so sure of yourself that you cannot possibly be mistaken?
Has God whispered into your ears only that which He did not reveal, even unto His Son?
I don't think so.
You have no more business calling Keras a fool than he has to use that term with you.
Lord, have mercy....both of you are in danger of hellfire, here....arguing over a concept that neither of you can possibly know for sure, and calling each other silly names.

Please listen to me, guys.
Yes, give us your ideas, outline your theories for us, show us your logic, help us to follow your reasoning, read to us your selected scriptures....

But knock off the arguing, lest God Himself should decide to box your ears.

Sure, it is interesting to think about these things, and try to piece together prophecy to figure out just when and how these things will happen.
But while we are doing that, let's not neglect the Lord's commandment that we love one another as He loves us.
How 'bout it guys?
Peace?

 

[Barrd]

Wouldn't it be ironic if, when that great and terrible day does come, you find out that you were right about the when and how....but you find yourself on the outside because of the way you treated one another in an internet forum?
Talk about wailing and gnashing of teeth!

Is it seriously worth it?

 

[Barrd]

I am not here as a scholar....I am no such thing.
I have no more idea about when the end will come than I have about how to build a satellite....it's all above my poor head, and I know it, an do not pretend otherwise.

No, I am here as a peacemaker.

Jesus will get here when He gets here....and He will be right on time.

Now, I am as curious as anyone else as to the when and how....if I weren't, I wouldn't be in this forum in the first place.
And frankly, if I had to choose, I'd have to say that Keras makes more sense...although I'm certain that God has not whispered His closely guarded secret into his ears, either.

 

[keras]

Thanks Barrd, I look forward to meeting you in the Holy Land. Not sure where Marcus intends to be though.

There is no secret about God's plans for our future. The ancient prophets wrote down everything we need to know, that is why we don't need prophets now; just messengers to point out the truths of the Prophetic Word.
The sequence of last days events is given to us in Revelation, first the 6 Seals, then the gathering of all the Lord's righteous people in the Holy Land, then the 7th Seal time gap. A few years later, the Gog/Magog attack is repulsed and after that the leader of the One World Govt comes to new Israel and negotiates a 7 year treaty of peace. Then he breaks it and in the 3 1/2 years before the Return of Jesus, the Great Tribulation of the 7 Trumpets and 7 Bowls happen, then Jesus destroys His enemies at Armageddon.
Simple really and any other theory or fanciful notion is a false teaching.

 

[Marcus O'Reillius]

Thanks Barrd, I look forward to meeting you in the Holy Land. Not sure where Marcus intends to be though.

Proverbs 9:7 Whoever corrects a mocker invites insults;
whoever rebukes the wicked incurs abuse. --NIV

 

[Barrd]

Proverbs 9:7 Whoever corrects a mocker invites insults;
whoever rebukes the wicked incurs abuse. --NIV

That would explain why you insult and abuse others, then.
Honestly, Marcus...wouldn't it be better just to tell us what you believe and why than to argue about it?

How can I trust you as a teacher, when you totally ignore Jesus' command that we love one another?
Obviously, if you refuse to obey Him, the Holy Spirit does not dwell in you.

Show me Christ in you, and I might listen to you.
Show me your own injured pride, and I am not impressed.

 

[Barrd]

Thanks Barrd, I look forward to meeting you in the Holy Land. Not sure where Marcus intends to be though.

There is no secret about God's plans for our future. The ancient prophets wrote down everything we need to know, that is why we don't need prophets now; just messengers to point out the truths of the Prophetic Word.
The sequence of last days events is given to us in Revelation, first the 6 Seals, then the gathering of all the Lord's righteous people in the Holy Land, then the 7th Seal time gap. A few years later, the Gog/Magog attack is repulsed and after that the leader of the One World Govt comes to new Israel and negotiates a 7 year treaty of peace. Then he breaks it and in the 3 1/2 years before the Return of Jesus, the Great Tribulation of the 7 Trumpets and 7 Bowls happen, then Jesus destroys His enemies at Armageddon.
Simple really and any other theory or fanciful notion is a false teaching.

Thank you, Keras.
I look forward to hugs from all of God's children.
What a glorious meeting that will be....all of us, perfected...loving each other as He loves us! I can only imagine...

 

[Marcus O'Reillius]

Isaiah 30:26 does not relate to the Day of the Lord as keras teaches.

He also teaches that Heaven will be here on earth, i.e., his reference to meeting you in the "Holy Land".

That he questions my salvation by suggesting I won't be with you two there, is one of those mocking little insults I must endure on this board. That you ally yourself with him and then heap more abuse speaks volumes too.

The nice part is that keras cannot change the truth of God's prophecy, you have no power to judge me, and God still loves His children despite their sins.

 

[Barrd]

Isaiah 30:26 does not relate to the Day of the Lord as keras teaches.

He also teaches that Heaven will be here on earth, i.e., his reference to meeting you in the "Holy Land".

That he questions my salvation by suggesting I won't be with you two there, is one of those mocking little insults I must endure on this board. That you ally yourself with him and then heap more abuse speaks volumes too.

In case you didn't notice, I have also spoken with Keras about his "mocking little insults".

And I have said repeatedly that neither one of you could possibly actually know what the Father did not reveal even to His Son.

I do think his posts make more sense than yours, though.
He's right about a couple of things...the earth is reserved for fire, this time. The elements will burn with fervent heat. Of course, I always though this referred to the entire universe...not just this one little bit of rock we call "home". But I suppose I could be mistaken...

Also, I believe he is right about the rapture. I don't think anyone is getting caught up anywhere until the very end. But if He should come for me before that day, I certainly do not intend to argue with Him!

Meantime, as I say...it is interesting to try to piece together the clues we have....but it is not worth fighting over.

 

[Marcus O'Reillius]

And the truth is not determined by democratic vote, thank God.

 

[Barrd]

And the truth is not determined by democratic vote, thank God.

God's Kingdom is not a democracy.
It is a theocracy.....
God, and God alone, is in charge.

And once again, neither one of you can possibly know how or when the end will come.

Won't it be embarrassing to find you've wasted all this spit an vinegar on a stupid mistake?
Especially if it turns out that you've traded your soul for it....

 

[Marcus O'Reillius]

And once again, neither one of you can possibly know how or when the end will come.

Yes, I know how because it's in prophecy, and while no one can know when Jesus will come for us, we will know the time is ripe because Jesus told us through prophecy what will happen just before it.

You see, unlike you, I don't take an emotional view of prophecy on a feel-good basis, and unlike keras, I've actually done the work of putting together the end-time sequence-of-events. He's a charlatan in that he's adopted that phrase, misappropriating it from me, without doing the work himself.

• War (on Terror) between North and South
• The rise of the fourth terrible beast of a nation out of the “sea”
o with ten Kings (Council of Ministers)
o Little horn "hamstrings" three "Kings" to rise to power over the Beast of a Nation
o Rebellion occurs
o Opposition and exaltation
• Covenant with many prevailed by the Roman ruler who will come
• Authority given (by God) to the beast of a man for one-half of the one 'seven'
o He wages war against the Saints
o We are to endure patiently (remember Rev 3:10 and John 17:15)
o Temple w/ Gentiles 42 mos.
o Rise of the false prophet with miracles and 'fire from the sky'
• The “one” removed from the midst
• Gog/Magog War - flash flood invasion of Holy Land
o Armies surround Jerusalem - pitches his tent at the Holy Mountain.
• Midpoint Abomination - Setting up the talking image of the anti-Christ
o Those in Judea flee / Remnant protected
o Two laws which make the Great Tribulation the worst time ever
o “Mikael" arises
o Two Witnesses 1260 days - call down Wrath
o Great Tribulation - the Elect are persecuted
• Sun/moon/star event Day of the LORD
o Scrolling of the sky = sign of the Son of Man
o Jesus touches down on Mount Zion
 Jews flee through the cleft of the Mount of Olives
 Mustering the 144,000 assembled on Mount Zion
 3 Angels fulfill the Great Commission / Warn the wicked
o Jesus resurrects the Saints / Last Trumpet
 Dead in Christ
 Martyr's deeds will be remembered (Two Witnesses left behind)
o Deliverance = Harvest Redemption / Gathering Elect from the clouds
 Those who are alive and are left
o Great Multitude arrives in Heaven out of the Great Tribulation
o Books / Scroll opened with breaking of seventh Seal
o First Trumpet fire and blood – 1/3rd of earth burned
 Avenging Angels – supplying Blood and managing the Fire
• Wrath of God following the Day of the Lord
o Second Trumpet - 1/3rd of sea to blood
o Third Trumpet - 1/3rd of water bitter
o Fourth Trumpet - 1/3rd of light struck
o Fifth Trumpet Abyss opened 5 months torment
o Sixth Trumpet WWIII - 1/3rdf of man killed
o Seventh Trumpet
 First Bowl - Sores on Man
 Second Bowl - All sea to blood
 Third Bowl - All water to blood
 Fourth Bowl - Seared by heat
 Fifth Bowl - Satan's kingdom in the dark
 Sixth Bowl - Way for the King of the East - Battle at Armageddon
 Jesus marshals the Remnant through perilous times
 Two Witnesses die from Demon from Abyss
 The Great Multitude and the 24 Elders rejoice in Heaven
 Jesus and His army (144,000) go out to do battle
 Seventh Bowl – Man of Lawlessness is undone:
 end with desolations poured out on the Roman desolator
 Victory at Armageddon
 anti-Christ and false prophet captured
 Two Witnesses arise
 Earth changing earthquake
 Jews survive the earthquake in Jerusalem
• End of the one ‘seven’
• First three beasts allowed to live a while
• Atonement of Christ
• Christ returns to Heaven
• 30 day period
o Sojourn to Mount Zion
o Beast of a Man thrown into Hell – done away with entirely
o Satan imprisoned
o Martyrs made alive
o Rewarding the Saints
• 45 day period – Encampment Sukkot at Mount Zion
• Establishment of Millennium reign of Christ
o Saints rule the earth / Israel is at peace
• Satan released at end of Millennium
o Revolt of the nations / their destruction
• Great White Throne Judgment = separation of the Sheep and Goats
• Death and Hades destroyed
• New Heaven and New Earth

I'll leave this outline up for you and keras to scoff at it.

What you cannot do is specify an error in it and prove it from the Bible. However, what I can do is defend every listing from the major linear narratives that do give us the order in which events happen.

 

[Barrd]

*sigh*
How many dire predictions of gloom and doom have there been in the last 50 years?

How many have been accurate?

And yet, more crop up every year....

 

[Marcus O'Reillius]

Ah, lots of concealed condemnation, and not one serious inquiry or criticism.

It's not a prediction: it's a sequence of the major linear narratives in the books of Daniel, Matthew, 1st and 2nd Thessalonians, and the book of Revelation.

You can't handle it? Better stick with keras then.

 

[Barrd]

What I can't handle, Marcus, is the rudeness. There is no point in it, and it is not Christian behavior.

It's not about your ideas about eschatology at all. It isn't about the scriptures you posted, or how they fit into God's plan.
It's strictly about your attitude.

I've tried to reason with you. I've tried my level best to get you to think about your behavior.

But at this point, I think we're done here. I'm beginning to suspect that the horse is dead anyway....

 

[ATP]

The last 3.5 years is considered God's wrath on humanity and the earth...

Rev 6:16-17 NIV They called to the mountains and the rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! 17For the great day of their wrath has come, and who can withstand it?”

But scripture states that believers are not appointed to wrath...

John 3:36 NIV "Whoever puts his faith in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see that life, for God's wrath remains on him."

1 Thess 5:9-10 NIV For God did not appoint us to suffer wrath but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ. 10He died for us so that, whether we are awake or asleep, we may live together with him.

- ATP

 

[Barrd]

 

[ATP]

?

 

[Barrd]

?

Do you have some ideas about the when and how Jesus will return for us?
If so, I'd be interested in hearing what you have to say.

If you're just here to argue....we have enough of that already.

 

[keras]

I have done the work of ascertaining the correct sequence of the end time events, You rudely dismissed my post on that out of hand.

I do see quite a lot of what you say in # 172 as being right. It is, after all what the Bible tells us.
But where we differ, is your shifting of the Sixth Seal to the Return, placing all the wrath of the Lord into that Day. Because your doing that is a change of the given sequence, it is on you to prove why you believe that.

Also I can't see anywhere the Jesus goes back to heaven after Armageddon. You need to prove that too.
You start with the war on terror, right, that is underway now. Soon the nations and groups in the Middle East will decide that getting rid of Israel will solve their problems. What is prophesied to happen when an attack is made on Israel?