There is more than one set of apocryphas.

[BreadOfLife]

Wrong.
Your attitude is really something else. The question is do ask myself constantly is if I want to take the time to go thru every scripture that you post in response and correct the errors that you will ignore anyway-- & believe me , they are multiple, basically every scripture you've posted you give a RC distorted twist to it thinking it agrees with the RC dogma ... when you are so extremely unpleasant, condescending and a religiously self-deluded rc dude. But it is an exercise in patience for me.

While you're exercising your patience - why don't you also exercise a little charity??
I was only responding to YOUR attacks. Remember - YOU are the one who attacked first. and I'm only being as "unpleasant" as YOU.

I would be MORE than willing to give this another chance at a charitable conversation. HOWEVER - leave the rude, anti-Catholic rubbish at the door and we'll go from there.
Deal?

 

[BreadOfLife]

The Rc church has lead people to hell.

And you know this for a fact?
You know the names of people who are in Hell??

That's an arrogant position that I've never heard from ANY Protestant.

 

[BreadOfLife]

BOl has no interest in the truth, He loves his religion and he will go to the grave for it. I have watched him tear down far to many innocent people.

I wold LOVE for you to show me ONE post where I "tore down" somebody who was "innocent".
Just show me ONE example . . .

I only lay into people and expose them for their LIES and misrepresentations of Catholic doctrine - but nobody who is "innocent" . . .

 

[tzcho2]

While you're exercising your patience - why don't you also exercise a little charity??
I was only responding to YOUR attacks. Remember - YOU are the one who attacked first. and I'm only being as "unpleasant" as YOU.

I would be MORE than willing to give this another chance at a charitable conversation. HOWEVER - leave the rude, anti-Catholic rubbish at the door and we'll go from there.
Deal?

Hey man, I am not being rude to you. You're attitude has been very challenging to deal with. My heart goes out to those the Rcc has lead astray and that continues to entrap & in prison.
As far as I am concerned, the RCC is a Wolf in sheep's clothing , no where does the Bible tell us to show charity to the wolf, and that is the deceiving Institution of the RCC with all it's adorned in crimson, purple & gold which it robes itself in.
I have love & soulful concern for the deceived people within the RC church & a burden for them because they have been deceived.
I want them to flee her and know they are right with GOD and saved for the Kingdom of heaven by grace alone through Faith in Jesus Christ's accomplishment on Calvary alone.
I pray they flee and take no part in her Masses, her man- made traditions, her idolatry & other sins against the Most High God. The Emperor Constantine created a blend of pagan and priest centered worship with Christianity which is where the ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH began. We still can see the pagan symbols like sun worship within the RCC.
The best I can give you is effort to be patient and civil --can you try for some civility??

 

[historyb]

You are very unpleasant and arrogant along with being spiritually misguided.

And yet BOL is not always wrong. It is you that have accepted lies because something sounded nicer, if you had studied history you would know that Christ founded a Church not a movement of individuals. I would disagree with BOL and say that the Church that Christ instituted was the Orthodox Church

 

[tzcho2]

And yet BOL is not always wrong. It is you that have accepted lies because something sounded nicer, if you had studied history you would know that Christ founded a Church not a movement of individuals. I would disagree with BOL and say that the Church that Christ instituted was the Orthodox Church

It is really funny that just because I like many others do not believe the error of the RCC that they call themselves "Christ's church" , that you assume I have no knowledge of the Bible and what is written about the early church.
The emperor Constantines church is the RCC and that is not "the early church" nor is it Christ's church as spoken of by the Apostles.
Do you suppose those converted by Peter or Paul erected statues to Mary when she died and fashioned rosary beads & handed them out to the multitudes?
Do you suppose that when the Apostles were martyred that the ones still alive taught the other believers to invoke prayers to these saints to grant their prayers? Sounds like blasphemy doesn't it?

 

[BreadOfLife]

Hey man, I am not being rude to you. You're attitude has been very challenging to deal with. My heart goes out to those the Rcc has lead astray and that continues to entrap & in prison.
As far as I am concerned, the RCC is a Wolf in sheep's clothing , no where does the Bible tell us to show charity to the wolf, and that is the deceiving Institution of the RCC with all it's adorned in crimson, purple & gold which it robes itself in.
I have love & soulful concern for the deceived people within the RC church & a burden for them because they have been deceived.
I want them to flee her and know they are right with GOD and saved for the Kingdom of heaven by grace alone through Faith in Jesus Christ's accomplishment on Calvary alone.
I pray they flee and take no part in her Masses, her man- made traditions, her idolatry & other sins against the Most High God. The Emperor Constantine created a blend of pagan and priest centered worship with Christianity which is where the ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH began. We still can see the pagan symbols like sun worship within the RCC.
The best I can give you is effort to be patient and civil --can you try for some civility??

Okay, then - you can't say I didn't give you fair warning and that I didn't give you a chance to start over with a better attitude. Just remember - it was YOU who attacked me and the Catholic Church first . . .

Now - with that being said - it seems that you didn't learn a thing about what I taught you back in post #93 and have chosen to continue to post ignorant comments like "RCC" and "Roman Catholic Church". After reading this - it's pretty evident WHY you're so ignorant.

Like I said before - it doesn't matter to me one bit if you dislike the Catholic Church. It only concerns me when you LIE about the Church - as you have just done. I will now hold you accountable before everybody here:
Show me where Constantine "started" the Catholic Church.
I wand documented evidence. The Romans were real sticklers for documentation . . .

If you can't do this - then you're just blowing more hot wind.
Until you can present this proof - consider yourself Scripturally and historically-SPANKED . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

It is really funny that just because I like many others do not believe the error of the RCC that they call themselves "Christ's church" , that you assume I have no knowledge of the Bible and what is written about the early church.
The emperor Constantines church is the RCC and that is not "the early church" nor is it Christ's church as spoken of by the Apostles.
Do you suppose those converted by Peter or Paul erected statues to Mary when she died and fashioned rosary beads & handed them out to the multitudes?
Do you suppose that when the Apostles were martyred that the ones still alive taught the other believers to invoke prayers to these saints to grant their prayers? Sounds like blasphemy doesn't it?

No - it just sounds like ignorance on YOUR part.

First off - YOU need to provide us with the historical documentation regarding Constantine's having "started" the Catholic Church.

If you didn't spend so much time regurgitating the same old asinine fairy tales you were weened on - you might have read some of the writings of the Early Church Fathers who wrote about the Catholic Church - CENTURIES BEFORE Constantine was even born . . .

Ignatius of Antioch
Follow your bishop, every one of you, as obediently as Jesus Christ followed the Father. Obey your clergy too as you would the apostles; give your deacons the same reverence that you would to a command of God. Make sure that no step affecting the Church is ever taken by anyone without the bishop’s sanction. The sole Eucharist you should consider valid is one that is celebrated by the bishop himself, or by some person authorized by him. Where the bishop is to be seen, there let all his people be; just as, wherever Jesus Christ is present, there is the CATHOLIC CHURCH (Letter to the Smyrneans 8:2 [A.D. 110]).

The Martyrdom of Polycarp
When finally he concluded his prayer, after remembering all who had at any time come his way – small folk and great folk, distinguished and undistinguished, and the whole CATHOLIC CHURCH throughout the world – the time for departure came. So they placed him on an ass, and brought him into the city on a great Sabbath (The Martyrdom of Polycarp 8 [A.D. 150]).

Irenaeus
The CATHOLIC CHURCH possesses one and the same faith throughout the whole world, as we have already said (Against Heresies 1:10 [A.D. 189]).

Tertullian
Where was Marcion then, that shipmaster of Pontus, the zealous student of Stoicism? Where was Valentinus then, the disciple of Platonism? For it is evident that those men lived not so long ago – in the reign of Antoninus for the most part – and that they at first were believers in the doctrine of the CATHOLIC CHURCH, in the church of Rome under the episcopate of the blessed Eleutherus, until on account of their ever restless curiosity, with which they even infected the brethren, they were more than once expelled (On the Prescription Against Heretics 22,30 [A.D.200])

Cyprian
The spouse of Christ cannot be defiled; she is uncorrupted and chaste. She knows one home . . . Does anyone believe that this unity which comes from divine strength, which is closely connected with the divine sacraments, can be broken asunder in the Church and be separated by the divisions of colliding wills? He who does not hold this unity, does not hold the law of God, does not hold the faith of the Father and the Son, does not hold life and salvation (On the Unity of the CATHOLIC CHURCH 6 [A.D. 251]).

OUCH!!
Now that's a historical-spanking . . .

 

[tzcho2]

No - it just sounds like ignorance on YOUR part.

First off - YOU need to provide us with the historical documentation regarding Constantine's having "started" the Catholic Church.

If you didn't spend so much time regurgitating the same old asinine fairy tales you were weened on - you might have read some of the writings of the Early Church Fathers who wrote about the Catholic Church - CENTURIES BEFORE Constantine was even born . . .

Ignatius of Antioch
Follow your bishop, every one of you, as obediently as Jesus Christ followed the Father. Obey your clergy too as you would the apostles; give your deacons the same reverence that you would to a command of God. Make sure that no step affecting the Church is ever taken by anyone without the bishop’s sanction. The sole Eucharist you should consider valid is one that is celebrated by the bishop himself, or by some person authorized by him. Where the bishop is to be seen, there let all his people be; just as, wherever Jesus Christ is present, there is the CATHOLIC CHURCH (Letter to the Smyrneans 8:2 [A.D. 110]).

The Martyrdom of Polycarp
When finally he concluded his prayer, after remembering all who had at any time come his way – small folk and great folk, distinguished and undistinguished, and the whole CATHOLIC CHURCH throughout the world – the time for departure came. So they placed him on an ass, and brought him into the city on a great Sabbath (The Martyrdom of Polycarp 8 [A.D. 150]).

Irenaeus
The CATHOLIC CHURCH possesses one and the same faith throughout the whole world, as we have already said (Against Heresies 1:10 [A.D. 189]).

Tertullian
Where was Marcion then, that shipmaster of Pontus, the zealous student of Stoicism? Where was Valentinus then, the disciple of Platonism? For it is evident that those men lived not so long ago – in the reign of Antoninus for the most part – and that they at first were believers in the doctrine of the CATHOLIC CHURCH, in the church of Rome under the episcopate of the blessed Eleutherus, until on account of their ever restless curiosity, with which they even infected the brethren, they were more than once expelled (On the Prescription Against Heretics 22,30 [A.D.200])

Cyprian
The spouse of Christ cannot be defiled; she is uncorrupted and chaste. She knows one home . . . Does anyone believe that this unity which comes from divine strength, which is closely connected with the divine sacraments, can be broken asunder in the Church and be separated by the divisions of colliding wills? He who does not hold this unity, does not hold the law of God, does not hold the faith of the Father and the Son, does not hold life and salvation (On the Unity of the CATHOLIC CHURCH 6 [A.D. 251]).

OUCH!!
Now that's a historical-spanking . . .

No ouch here whatsoever.
I am a follow Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior and study & follow the instructions written in the Word of God.

 

[tzcho2]

Okay, then - you can't say I didn't give you fair warning and that I didn't give you a chance to start over with a better attitude. Just remember - it was YOU who attacked me and the Catholic Church first . . .

Now - with that being said - it seems that you didn't learn a thing about what I taught you back in post #93 and have chosen to continue to post ignorant comments like "RCC" and "Roman Catholic Church". After reading this - it's pretty evident WHY you're so ignorant.

Like I said before - it doesn't matter to me one bit if you dislike the Catholic Church. It only concerns me when you LIE about the Church - as you have just done. I will now hold you accountable before everybody here:
Show me where Constantine "started" the Catholic Church.
I wand documented evidence. The Romans were real sticklers for documentation . . .

If you can't do this - then you're just blowing more hot wind.
Until you can present this proof - consider yourself Scripturally and historically-SPANKED . . .

Ok ....I read the first sentence only and it was such a chuckle, it's so delusional, a bit grandiose, & it never fails to surprise.
I never attacked you-- ever. You are one of the rudest people I've ever met on a forum.
I criticize the RCC only the institution & the false doctrines, but you've been nonstop insulting me personally, in every post.
I'm not going anywhere so Get used to it... I won't bow to the brainwashing propaganda of RCC that you perpetuate and I also won't bow down to your prideful, mean spirited, bullying , arrogant attitude either.
You just demonstrate what what RCC can do to the soul.
Praying for you.

 

[FHII]

First off - YOU need to provide us with the historical documentation regarding Constantine's having "started" the Catholic Church.

Technically, he (tzcho2) didn't say that. He said it (the RCC) was Constantine's Church. Though the context does imply that is what he was saying.

Either way, both are incorrect. Constantine did not start a Church; he embrased a Church that was already there and actually freed it from persecution. That's not to say things were fine and dandy after that. But to say Constantine started the Catholic Church or that it was his is wrong.

My personal opinion based on what I have studied is that the Catholic Church we know today and that of 325 AD evolved. In other words, no one person or time period stared it. When Peter and Paul were in Rome (and again, I believe there is enough historical evidence to support that) what they had going on was NOT the same as what was happening in 323 AD or today.

Also based on my educated opinion, the Catholic Church continued to evolvr after the time of Constantine. But in any sense, the major ground work was in place.

BOL gave 5 historical references that note there was a "Catholic Church" before Constantine. I accept 4 of them... The quote by Ignatius I would dispute. We can discuss that, but regardless the point is clear.

 

[historyb]

No ouch here whatsoever.
I am a follow Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior and study & follow the instructions written in the Word of God.

Are you sure you follow everything? Do you follow the verse that says the Church is the pillar and foundation of truth (1 Tim 3:15)? Do you follow what St. Paul said to observe what was given both oral and written(2 Thes 2:15)? Do you maintain the traditions that St. Paul hand down(1 Cor 11:2)?

 

[CoreIssue]

Are you sure you follow everything? Do you follow the verse that says the Church is the pillar and foundation of truth (1 Tim 3:15)? Do you follow what St. Paul said to observe what was given both oral and written(2 Thes 2:15)? Do you maintain the traditions that St. Paul hand down(1 Cor 11:2)?

God is the pillar and foundation of truth, not the church, which is not Catholicism.
15 if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God’s household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth.

Oral and written were given by the apostles, not the church.

15 So then, brothers and sisters, stand firm and hold fast to the teachings we passed on to you, whether by word of mouth or by letter.

Teachings, not traditions. Given by the apostles, not the church.

These verses were given when Catholicism did not exist.

 

[tzcho2]

Are you sure you follow everything? Do you follow the verse that says the Church is the pillar and foundation of truth (1 Tim 3:15)? Do you follow what St. Paul said to observe what was given both oral and written(2 Thes 2:15)? Do you maintain the traditions that St. Paul hand down(1 Cor 11:2)?

How many times to you Roman Catholics need to hear this that --the Church is not a reference to the RCC? A billion times? perhaps? just can't seem to grasp that fact can you. No I didn't think so.

 

[historyb]

God is the pillar and foundation of truth, not the church, which is not Catholicism.
15 if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God’s household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth.

Oral and written were given by the apostles, not the church.

15 So then, brothers and sisters, stand firm and hold fast to the teachings we passed on to you, whether by word of mouth or by letter.

Teachings, not traditions. Given by the apostles, not the church.

These verses were given when Catholicism did not exist.

Who said I was talking about Catholicism, let's not assume. Also you twisted the verse it clearly is saying the Church is the pillar and foundation of truth but your sola scriptura is wrong and it shows how you really follow what you think and not Scripture

 

[historyb]

How many times to you Roman Catholics need to hear this that --the Church is not a reference to the RCC? A billion times? perhaps? just can't seem to grasp that fact can you. No I didn't think so.

Stop. I am not Catholic.

 

[mjrhealth]

I wold LOVE for you to show me ONE post where I "tore down" somebody who was "innocent".
Just show me ONE example . . .

I only lay into people and expose them for their LIES and misrepresentations of Catholic doctrine - but nobody who is "innocent" . . .

Well I suppose sine @bbyrd009 is into those sort of things He could start a Pol for you.

 

[mjrhealth]

And what you posted simply supports what I said before.
We are taught by the Church. - as Christ prescribed (Matt. 28:19) . . .

No by His Holy Spirit

1Jn_2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

of course that means you must have His Spirit first.

 

[Taken]

Peter was not the first Pope, as the RCC teaches ...

Agree.

Acts....ACTIONS ~

Acts 10
[25] And as Peter was coming in, Cornelius met him, and fell down at his feet, and worshipped him.
[26] But Peter took him up, saying, ...Stand up; I myself also am a man.

Revelations....REVEALING ~

Rev 19:10
10] And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

Rev 22:8
[8] And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things.
[9] Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.

TRUTH ~

Romans 14
[11] For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.

Praise and Glory to God,
Taken

 

[tzcho2]

Stop. I am not Catholic.

The RCC is not "the church" & the ecumenical movement is not lead by the Holy Spirit.