There Remains No Sacrifice For Sins

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Brakelite

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Evil ideas cannot be overcome by violence, not even the destruction of those promoting them. The ideas will always remain. If God had in the beginning destroyed Lucifer his rebelliousness would have been validated. His reasons for setting up an opposing government to the kingdom of God would have been seen as justified by the angels who were not convinced either way if God had destroyed him. No. Evil ideas need a theater in order to be revealed as evil. They need to be allowed to bear fruit that all may see and witness their moral destitution. Which is why we are still here today and Christ has not come... Not everyone is yet convinced that satan's philosophies and opposition to the laws and government of God are bad. After the coming tribulation... Everyone will be.
 

Grailhunter

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Evil ideas cannot be overcome by violence, not even the destruction of those promoting them. The ideas will always remain. If God had in the beginning destroyed Lucifer his rebelliousness would have been validated. His reasons for setting up an opposing government to the kingdom of God would have been seen as justified by the angels who were not convinced either way if God had destroyed him. No. Evil ideas need a theater in order to be revealed as evil. They need to be allowed to bear fruit that all may see and witness their moral destitution. Which is why we are still here today and Christ has not come... Not everyone is yet convinced that satan's philosophies and opposition to the laws and government of God are bad. After the coming tribulation... Everyone will be.
Will I cannot say I agree with you...but I understand the concept.
Do not resist evil...
I am glad that men and women did not feel that way during WW1 and WW2.
I have said this so many times on this forum...the sheep...God's best. They have a different path not right or wrong.
The sheep may say the shepherd is to cruel to the wolves...but what would happen if the shepherd did not oppose evil.
The wolves eat the sheep and they go to heaven...no so bad...right?
 

Brakelite

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Will I cannot say I agree with you...but I understand the concept.
Do not resist evil...
I am glad that men and women did not feel that way during WW1 and WW2.
I have said this so many times on this forum...the sheep...God's best. They have a different path not right or wrong.
The sheep may say the shepherd is to cruel to the wolves...but what would happen if the shepherd did not oppose evil.
The wolves eat the sheep and they go to heaven...no so bad...right?
There are more scriptures than I could poke a stick at which tell Christians that the affairs of this world... Which include the wars and the politics and the state sanctioned opposition to Jesus even, that is none of our business. Christians however throughout the ages ignore all oflf them and want to fight God's wars with the weapons of this world. Even to the point of executing those who refuse the gospel. As for world war 1 and 2, Vietnam, or any other war fought for the glory and honor of man and his false ideas of patriotism, do you really think God needs you to defend or offend, whatever the case may be, anyone's cause? God is well able to defend His own... Let the dead bury their own.
I don't know so much about WW1. I think the church at that time, which was heavily into an earthly millennialI paradise on earth, needed to be taught that their security was ill founded. I do believe God intervened in WW2. Vietnam? I think America deserved to be defeated in that unjust war. God is just. We might not like some of the results in world affairs (Biden a case in point) but we need to learn that those matters are outside our worry zone.

That said, there have been cases where wars have been fought with the express purpose of wiping out Christian truth. The wars in Bohemia against the Hussites a great example. Many times outnumbered, the Hussites won battle after battle. Theirs was a righteous cause. And God was on their side.
 

Grailhunter

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There are more scriptures than I could poke a stick at which tell Christians that the affairs of this world... Which include the wars and the politics and the state sanctioned opposition to Jesus even, that is none of our business. Christians however throughout the ages ignore all oflf them and want to fight God's wars with the weapons of this world. Even to the point of executing those who refuse the gospel. As for world war 1 and 2, Vietnam, or any other war fought for the glory and honor of man and his false ideas of patriotism, do you really think God needs you to defend or offend, whatever the case may be, anyone's cause? God is well able to defend His own... Let the dead bury their own.
I don't know so much about WW1. I think the church at that time, which was heavily into an earthly millennialI paradise on earth, needed to be taught that their security was ill founded. I do believe God intervened in WW2. Vietnam? I think America deserved to be defeated in that unjust war. God is just. We might not like some of the results in world affairs (Biden a case in point) but we need to learn that those matters are outside our worry zone.

That said, there have been cases where wars have been fought with the express purpose of wiping out Christian truth. The wars in Bohemia against the Hussites a great example. Many times outnumbered, the Hussites won battle after battle. Theirs was a righteous cause. And God was on their side.

It would be futile to argue about what the scriptures say about all this. But we can analyze why the scriptures were taking that position. Maybe we can do that later.

But then this is not a new topic. The driving force of this is the fundamentalists' approach to understanding Christianity. Within this context Christians are not allowed to resist evil. They cannot fight...period. They would have to accept whatever evil that would rule over them and accept the consequences without complaint. If that meant that they and their families would die, they would have to accept that. Going to heaven sooner is a good thing. Right? That would be a legitimate religious belief. Of course the argument could be made that we do not know the ramifications of that. Some would say that Christianity would not have survived. And some would say that if Christianity did not fight, that Christ would have returned shortly after the biblical era and made things right and none of this would have happened. It does not make for a debate because it is all speculation.

But still it is a legitimate religious belief. Not one that I will incorporate in my beliefs but still open minded enough to recognize it as a legitimate belief. Maybe you could start a thread on it to discuss it.
 

Behold

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Sin Removed? No.
Covered with His Light, Yes.
Rom 4:
[7] Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
Raising Up, in Glory, is the raising Up in a body without corruption...aka sinless.

Sins are both, forgiven and covered.
Its both.

They are removed, as far as the east is from the west.
The fact is, God does not even remember them, at all.
See, being made righteous, also means that God never again remembers our sin.
Why is that?
Its because the Blood of Jesus has removed them, which happened because Christ BORE THEM.
Jesus took our sin, so, that means we dont have them.
Once He took them, "became our sin", and they are GONE.
See, we can't both have them.......... He has them. He paid for them, and now we are redeemed from them.
That is the POWER of the Blood Atonement.
 

justbyfaith

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1Jo 1:8, If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

Rom 7:18, For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing:) for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

Phl 3:20, For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:
Phl 3:21, Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.
 
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Taken

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There Remains No Sacrifice For Sins
OP ^

EXACTLY CORRECT!
Brief links to verses.

*Application to Israel, under the law, and those remaining under the law:
*Gentiles, Israel, Salvation now, by Grace, who accept Christ now.
* Salvation after Wrath/physical death, who reject Christ now, but accept during Trib Wrath.


OT LAW - was an oral, command, to be established among the people;
Orally, spoken, repeated, written, copied, and re-written from memory, (if confiscated and destroyed) and sent out among the tribes of Israel.
* Laws;
(governing rituals) ie Positive Law (governing penalties) ie Negative Law
* Statutes;
(governing commands)
* Precepts, (governing behaviors between men)

Penalties, for law violations, were enforced;
In households, by the head of household; ie husband/father
Any unsettled family, or between different families, was settled, according to the Penalty Laws, BY a Priest, who would hear the complaint and facts.


THAT ^ "was" what God established.

Moving Forward...4,000 years.
We learn...About "these" LAST DAYS.
(These LAST DAYS, have been in effect FOR 2,000 Years).

Heb 1:
[
2] Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

* In these last days...MUCH has Changed.
* Revealing of the Word of God, (Jn 1:1)
* in the likeness as a man. (Phil 2:8)
* "much" OT Law fulfilled.
* Fulfilled Law is a Void Law. No Law, No negative penal consequences.
(Rom 4:15)
* Jewish Law not destroyed. (Matt 5:17)
- Israelites can accept the fulfillment of the law or remain under the law.
- Israelites Accept fulfillment...then Saved IN Christ.
- Israelites Not Accept...Not Saved now, Law & Penalities continue to Apply.
- Become Saved at physical Death..."IF" they continue in Faithfulness to God...by their own power. (Matt 5:18)

(Mt 5:17-18 ~ John 19:28 & 30)
* A Better Testament. (Heb 7:22)
* Revealed Secret Knowledge (Mt 13:35)
* Jesus, (son of man) came AS faithful ISRAEL, (Heb 2:16)
* to seek Lost Israel. (Luke 19:10)
* 1st hand Jewish disciples were sent out to the world to Teach Israel
(Matt, 10:16)
* Jesus, appointed Saul/Paul, to Hear the Word of God. (Acts 22:10)
* The Holy Spirit, appointed Paul, to HS Baptism & Preach (Acts 22: 14-14)
* to Gentiles & others. (Acts 22: 21)
* Gentiles & Israel WHO accept (by heartful Confession); Son of Mans Offering (His body, His blood), FOR Forgiveness FOR;
- being naturally born in SIN, (flesh)
- having HAD disbelieve: IN God, IN Christ, (rejection)
- and Corrupting their souls. (Gods Life/breath)

* Such man IS, "CONVERTED"... BY the POWER OF GOD...and KEPT "CONVERTED" once and forever, BY THE "POWER" OF GOD.

Rom 11: 23-36
Gods Mercy IS because of His Love.
Gods Salvation OFFERING IS because of His Mercy.
Gods Salvation came to man 2,000 years ago;
Gods Salvation IS Offered to ALL...Through the Son of Man (not Forced on Anyone.)
Gods Salvation IS Given ONCE Through Christ, (who IS THE POWER OF GOD), to ANY, who Heartfully Accepts His Offering,
ALL WHO Heartfully Accepts His Offering; ARE THEN/NOW, changed FOREVER, "BY" the POWER of God...AND "FOREVER" KEPT changed, "BY" the POWER of GOD.
THEY ARE "SEALED" unto God...an UNBREAKABLE "SEAL".
Not subject to Wrath.

In the Tribulation period ~ WRATH ~
Wrath of the Lamb will befall upon men -
* Who accepted God, but rejected Christ.
* Who rejected God & Christ.
God SENDS ... HIS WORD into the whole World...the LAST TIME (before millennial reign) of WARNING to men OF the World...
* Israelites" to Preach to "Israelites"...Christ the Lords Salvation.
* God SENDS His Angel, for ALL the World, to Hear Gods Word

Wrath of the Devil will befall upon men -
* For...those men Accepting God & Christ
* body's will be physically killed, remain on earth.
* Souls will be Saved, risen to heaven
* Spirits will be Quickened, risen to heaven
Wrath of God and Gods Vengeance will befall upon men-
* who maintained rejection of God & Christ
* who elected their allegiance (by mark) unto Satan.

Followed by...millennial reign, Mortals & Immortals on earth 1,000 years, Final separation of those with and those without the Lord God, Battle of holy and fallen angels;
Court (of sorts), Bodies glorified & risen, corrupt dead risen, All bow to the Lord, Judgements, (Books of Evidence opened), Sentence, Men with the Lord, & Corrupt destroyed, Earth and Heavens renewed...

Precisely, Since Jesus, Son of Man was sent 2,000 years ago... THERE IS NO OTHER MEANS by WHICH "any" man Can be Forgiven, Saved, Quickened, Restored, Made anew, BUT BY CHRIST, whom God Appointed.

Glory to God,
Praise and Thankfulness unto our Great God Almighty,

Taken


 

Taken

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Sins are both, forgiven and covered.
Its both.

Yes have already said...
Sins are forgiven.
Sins are covered.

They are removed, as far as the east is from the west.
The fact is, God does not even remember them, at all.
See, being made righteous, also means that God never again remembers our sin.
Why is that?
Its because the Blood of Jesus has removed them, which happened because Christ BORE THEM.
Jesus took our sin, so, that means we dont have them.
Once He took them, "became our sin", and they are GONE.
See, we can't both have them.......... He has them. He paid for them, and now we are redeemed from them.
That is the POWER of the Blood Atonement.

Removed...Not Yet.

It's a Spiritual:
Bodily crucified with Christ (death)
cleansing, (Jesus' Blood)
justifying, (to be risen in a glorified body) sanctification, (set apart, to be redeemed)

It's a fact our bodies are still Living.
Our Quickened spirit is IN Christ.
Chirst's Spirit is IN our quickened spirit.
We "spiritually" occupy Jesus' risen body.
We 'Walk" "spiritually", in Jesus' Spirit.

Our physical bodies ARE NOT YET "glorifiED", until they are "RAISED UP" glorified.

Our physical bodies still HAVE SIN...
Sin that IS Forgiven.
Sin that IS Covered, with the Lords Power, which IS His Spirit, His Light.
Sin that IS Unseen to the Lord God.
Sin that cannot be SEEN, (since Light overcomes Dark, and dark IS Sin).
Sin that cannot be SEEN by God, is thus,
NOT Remembered, by God.

Such a person IS FREED from Sin...
No more ability to Commit Sin (reject God).
Such a person can continue to TRESPASS against other men, which IS Trespassing, NOT SIN.
Only God is Sinned Against.
Only God Forgives Sin.
Men can and do forgive men of Trespasses Against them.

Men sin Against God by Rejecting Belief IN HIM....that IS NO LONGER possible, by a Converted man, BECAUSE of the internal POWER of God.

A mans body, with forgiven, covered sin...
IS Still a body "WITH" sin...UNTIL the day the body IS CHANGED...'put ON uncorruption'...
Glorified.

We can "account" the body changed, thou it is not Yet changed...BUT assuredly WILL BE CHANGED...by Promise of God, WHO cannot Lie.

The day the body IS RAISE, IS the day, IT has come to pass, come into fruition, that that body has put on uncorruption.

Meantime...we accept Gods Word of Truth; His intent, promise, giving, having not yet come into fruition, SHALL, because He is Faithful and True.

Rom 4:
[17] (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.
 

Taken

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Behold~
Further regarding... Sin against God and Trespasses against men...

While God has forgiven a Converted mans sin against God...

That is only a portion that is secure ...
Men still trespass against men, (intentionally and Unintentionally)...

When a mans body IS raised (glorified & uncorrupt)....the trespasses and "forgiveness" between men, must also be addressed and settled...( that can not become complete until the physical body dies ... )

The accounting of rewards & gifts to be given a man, to be accurate and true, have to include the mans trespasses and forgiving of trespasses .... which is end at a mans physical death...since that man can neither commit another trespass or forgive any trespasses or ask for forgiveness of his own trespasses.
 

Ronald Nolette

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What is the law of Christ? Is not the law of Moses included in it (Matthew 5:17-20)?

Not even close! Of teh ten wirtten in stone which are a ministry of death- the Sabbath is not included. as for the other 603 Mosaic Laws- they are not in it either.


I do not presume to say that anyone I am dealing with has arrogant haughtiness; because if I did, I would be pointing the finger and I would have three fingers pointing back at me (Matthew 7:1-5, Luke 6:41-42).

Well I dare presume it especially when one writes that they know me better than me as you did.


I simply believe that those who say they have understanding of what the Bible really says because they know the Greek and Hebrew, set themselves up as being on the level of authority and that produces a cult-like mentality. Those who don't have knowledge of the original languages cannot be Bereans and check for themselves if what the Greek or Hebrew scholar is saying the truth.

I prefer to believe that the kjv is inspired and inerrant; as God is both sovereign and Omnipotent and loving; and therefore He is not going to allow His unadulterated message to be lost to the common people; who heard Him gladly while the educated Pharisees (Greek and Hebrews scholars) rejected Him.

I believe that the kjv-only controversy is there for a reason...for those who will take to heart the possibility that the kjv is authoritative over all other translations and who will adhere to it, they will find that they have God's unadulterated message and that they have not been led astray by watered down and or corrupted versions.

then you are truly naïve'. I have used the KJV for over 30 years now and love it. but it is a translation and has errors in it. Like in romans 8: 1

Romans 8
King James Version

8 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Teh B part of that verse is a transcription error from verse 5. The B part appears in no greek manuscript prior to the 16th Century.

Same with this:

1 John 5:7
For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

This appears in no manuscript either! It is believed it was a margin note that was added into the textus receptus.

Reading a translation will bring no harm, but it keeps many parts of your faith shallow and incomplete. The greeks say more with verb endings and voice and mood than what can be written in a simple translation.

Teh amplified and Kittels 10 voluome Greek NT do the best at bringing out the full thought of the greek.

Many people believe they can lose their salvation and base it on the simple english of this:

4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,

5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

Looking at it in just English does twend to lead credence to that false teaching. However< when one actually studies the verse as it was written and inspired by God from the original author, a much different picture develops and shows it is not talking about losing salvation!

I can't speak of your "cult like mentality" about those who study Greek and Hebrew.

Teh KJV was protected by God from doctrinal error but its translation was not inspired like the original writings.

I had a good friend who was a KJV only guy and gave me a book by a KJV only pastor to show why.

I had my friend take 20 verses at random this author said showed how the KJV was the best.
I used a Strongs concordance tied to the KJV, compared them to teh NIV and these were the results:

16---3----1

16 verses were translated better by the NIV
3 were tied
1 was done better by the KJV

Am I trashing the KJV? NO Am I uplifitng the NIV ? NO! I am saying that we are removed from the language of the original scriptures and many thoughts and concepts and words cannot be carried from language to another with a simple word.

I teach all of the several thousand students I have taught to use all the language tools they can find to enrich their personal study. I also encourag ethem to find good historical and cultural studies to better understand many things going on in Scripture!

If you wisdh to call that cult like- Go ahead- but the KJV only crowd really is cult like.
 

justbyfaith

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Not even close! Of teh ten wirtten in stone which are a ministry of death- the Sabbath is not included. as for the other 603 Mosaic Laws- they are not in it either.

I disagree with you...I believe that Matthew 5:17-20 contradicts your point of view.

Romans 8
King James Version


8 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Teh B part of that verse is a transcription error from verse 5. The B part appears in no greek manuscript prior to the 16th Century.

Not necessarily. It may be that certain manuscripts thought that there was a transcription error and removed part B of Romans 8:1 out of holy scripture.

Most assuredly, Romans 8:12-13 substantiates the concept of Romans 8:1b.

But people who read it in the NASB, for example, may not get the full understanding of the reality of what is taught by holy scripture because they are not reading Romans 8:12-13 in the same sitting.

I would say that Romans 8:1b defines who is "in Christ Jesus" and that rather than saying there is no condemnation for those who walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit, it is saying that there is no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus; and that those who are in Christ Jesus, as a general rule, do not walk after the flesh but after the Spirit.

Teh KJV was protected by God from doctrinal error but its translation was not inspired like the original writings.

That is a contradiction in terms. If there is no doctrinal error in it how is it not also inspired by God?
 

Enoch111

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She was mistaken that there is a High Priest continuing the work of redemption through meditation with God? You better trear out the book of Hebrews from your Bible.
She was mistaken in assuming that the finished work of Christ remained unfinished. The Lord is now our Great High Priest as our Advocate and Intercessor in Heaven. That is what the book of Hebrews is all about.

His shed blood has been sprinkled on the heavenly Mercy Seat, therefore He SITS at the right hand of the Father making intercession for us. Earthly high priests were not allowed to sit, since their work was never finished.

Ellen G. White had some sound teaching, but too many unsound doctrines which led the SDAs astray.
 

Jay Ross

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With respect to the OP, and this threads title, I find it gives a very wrong understanding of the ability of a person to obtain redemption from God.

Dan. 9:25b indicates that after Israel and Jerusalem did not take up God's towards them, the the process of redemption for a person's sins was changed such that the one worthy sacrifice of Christ on the Cross is available for all who seek redemption for their repentance of their sins.

The sacrifice for sins remain permanently in place for those who would throw themselves upon God's Grace for them by covering them with the Sacrifice of the Cross to cleanse them from their sins and making them acceptable before the Lord God.

Shalom
 

Brakelite

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She was mistaken in assuming that the finished work of Christ remained unfinished. The Lord is now our Great High Priest as our Advocate and Intercessor in Heaven. That is what the book of Hebrews is all about.

His shed blood has been sprinkled on the heavenly Mercy Seat, therefore He SITS at the right hand of the Father making intercession for us. Earthly high priests were not allowed to sit, since their work was never finished.

Ellen G. White had some sound teaching, but too many unsound doctrines which led the SDAs astray.
The entire OT Hebrew economy was the type...the forerunner...to the real antitype and fulfilment in the NT. I think you understand and agree with this concept. The death of the sacrificial victim was the first act for the redemption of the individual in Israel. As you intimated above, the blood needed to be taken into the sanctuary and sprinkled before the mercy seat in the Most Holy Place on the day of atonement before the years religious economy was spent, being subsequently celebrated with the festival or feast of tabernacles. That day of atonement was crucial, and its antitype has not yet been completed...not until the High Priest leaves the sanctuary (in heaven) and comes for His people. The feast of tabernacles is then celebrated in heaven. Until Christ returns, the work of redemption...atonement...continues.
 

Ronald Nolette

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That's just casting aspersions. We need to remain humble and teachable.

Much love!

Well they call it cult like. I am a student of greek and hebrew and I don't hold a cult like mentality or feel superior to those who opt not to look at the original languages.
 

Ronald Nolette

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I disagree with you...I believe that Matthew 5:17-20 contradicts your point of view.


Well the church has no sabbath! We are free to eat all meants. we do not need to circumcise ur sones, we can mix fabrics. We can wear ourbeards any way we wish. I can go on.

Jesus fulfilled the law- thereby the law is ended for righteousness to all who believe as is written in romans
Not necessarily. It may be that certain manuscripts thought that there was a transcription error and removed part B of Romans 8:1 out of holy scripture.

Most assuredly, Romans 8:12-13 substantiates the concept of Romans 8:1b.

But people who read it in the NASB, for example, may not get the full understanding of the reality of what is taught by holy scripture because they are not reading Romans 8:12-13 in the same sitting.

I would say that Romans 8:1b defines who is "in Christ Jesus" and that rather than saying there is no condemnation for those who walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit, it is saying that there is no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus; and that those who are in Christ Jesus, as a general rule, do not walk after the flesh but after the Spirit.


Well you can say all you want- but the Word shows it does not appear in the oldest manuscripts. It first appeared in the 1300's!

but yesd if you live a carnal life- you will die! That is not about salvation, but God allowing sin to have its consequences on a believer (the sin unto death)

I live according to the spirit for I am no longer led by the flesh but by the Spirit. Am I perfect? Far from it- but I have been born again as a child of God and my salvation is kept in heaven for me. sorry you think you can lose yours.
 

justbyfaith

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Well the church has no sabbath! We are free to eat all meants. we do not need to circumcise ur sones, we can mix fabrics. We can wear ourbeards any way we wish. I can go on.

Jesus fulfilled the law- thereby the law is ended for righteousness to all who believe as is written in romans

God instituted the law for a reason...and every moral tenet found therein has benefit for those who will obey. There is a blessing in keeping the law; even in the New Testament (James 1:25).

The law should be written on your heart and in your mind if you are a recipient of the New Covenant (Hebrews 8:8-10; Hebrews 10:16, Romans 8:7, Romans 8:4, 1 John 5:3, 2 John 1:6, Romans 13:8-10, Galatians 5:14; Romans 5:5).

The specific commandments in the law are the specifics of the love of God. If you disobey a moral tenet, you are not living out the love of the Lord in that instance.

Thus, by the law is the knowledge of sin (Romans 3:20). Sin is the transgression of the law (1 John 3:4).

We are told not to sin in holy scripture; even in the New Testament (1 Corinthians 15:34, Ephesians 4:26).