This really grabbed me today!

[Matthias]

I heard a story about a Sunday School teacher who asked a child if he would follow a god which Jesus didn’t follow. The child replied that he wouldn’t. When the teacher asked him why he wouldn’t the boy said that Jesus was a good boy, and explained that he got in trouble at home when he didn’t act like Jesus.

Satisfied with the boy’s amusing answer, the teacher taught the class a lesson on the Trinity.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

But does this mean that the Father is Spirit, and the Son is Incarnated Man, and the Spirit - The Father - is shared by both Father and Son? When we see the Father as the Spirit Himself, then to me it seems the words of the Bible get tangled up with each other.

Well we know and agree that God is Spirit. So we have that agreement!
And we know that the fullness of God, who is Spirit, dwelt in flesh in Jesus without measure, and was God with us.
We also know we too have received of Gods Spirit a down payment, and we all drink from the same Spirit.
That’s maybe as much as I can say on it.

But you know, epi said something a few weeks ago that’s been rattling around in my mind. It bothered me when he first said it, (which is true often about things he says at first), but I could see it, even though it bothered me. He said Jesus was God in flesh but that Jesus was not the MOST high God, because we sought to be like Jesus, but if we sought to be like the MOST high God, we would be guilty of the sin of satan who said, I will be like the most high. So…I can see it but…it also bothers me because…it seems to my inmost being that it is not giving My Lord and my God and my…Everything, all glory and honor and worship due Him. And yet, He willingly and on purpose emptied Himself and left the glory He shared to have me. Which makes me magnify Him all the more, not less.

It’s a lot for my human mind. That’s as far as I’m able to take it. But I can say this - I don’t think we see our Lord as He is, not fully. But it does say we will one day be just like Him because we will see Him as He is. I get a marvel at that verse when I recall it.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Here's one . . .

[QUOTE="marks, post: 1352809, member: 7985"
The matter of, How we read the Bible . . .

Acts 13:2 KJV
As they ministered to the Lord, and fasted, the Holy Ghost said, Separate me Barnabas and Saul for the work whereunto I have called them.

Did the Holy Spirit give this instruction? Or no? Was the Holy Spirit the "telephone"? Or the Speaker?

The Holy Spirit said, do this, so I'm of the mind that the Holy Spirit was the speaker. Otherwise, it's along the lines of, "the telephone said do such and such". I don't think that's a good understanding of the passage./QUOTE]

Much love!

I wasn’t able to follow this. If the Spirit of God speaks, to me it is God speaking…

 

[amigo de christo]

Since when did you decide to start perverting Bible truth?

Do you see how stupid it sounds when someone says "He didn't say "Jesus" or "Christ" was with God"? All an honest and sincere person needs to do is read the entire first chapter of the Gospel of John to see that it is all about the Lord Jesus Christ, the eternal Word of God, the Creator, the only begotten Son of God, God manifest in the flesh, who is also the Lamb of God who took away the sin of the world.

Within the Godhead, it was God the Word who was designated to be the Creator. Which does not mean that the Father and the Holy Spirit were not involved. Father, Son and Holy Spirit were all involved in creation, but the work of creation was given to the Son. And that is why we read what is written in Hebrews 1:8-10:

But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows. And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:

And also we can read revelation . His name , THE WORD OF GOD . Yep its real simple . Folks just wont let go
of things even when its clearly seen . Yes indeed my friend .

 

[marks]

I wasn’t able to follow this. If the Spirit of God speaks, to me it is God speaking…

I understand.

Much love!

 

[marks]

It’s a lot for my human mind. That’s as far as I’m able to take it. But I can say this - I don’t think we see our Lord as He is, not fully.

I think this sums it up for all of us. We cannot comprehend God as He Is.

And I share your amazement, when we see Him we will be like Him.

He said Jesus was God in flesh but that Jesus was not the MOST high God, because we sought to be like Jesus, but if we sought to be like the MOST high God,

And yet, "in Him" lives the fulness of God. If you have seen Me, you have seen the Father. "Be ye therefore perfect as your Father in heaven is perfect."

I think this parses things we aren't meant to touch, myself.

We're to imitate Paul, but that doesn't mean we consider ourselves Apostles. We are to imitate Christ, but we don't consider ourselves the Redeemer. We are to imitate the Father, but that doesn't mean we consider ourselves God.

We know love because the Son laid down His life for us, and this was also the Father's gift to us, the gift of His Son, and we can imitate Him just like Abraham, giving all we have.

Much love!

 

[Enoch111]

How can God have a God above him?

God the Father is "the Head" or authority over God the Son. But they are both God as noted in Hebrews 1:8,9 (and many other passages). But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God. (1 Cor 11:3) There is a unique Father-Son relationship within the Godhead, and we are simply expected to believe this. Not try to figure it out with our human limitations.

 

[marks]

I forget where I wrote this earlier . . .

I don't know that we are intended to have some kind of rational analysis of everything we read in the Bible. I think our minds are to be guided by the imagery and descriptiveness of the Bible to think of things in certain ways. And concerning our God, I think searching for a full rational understanding is the wrong direction to be looking.

John 16:13 KJV
Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

Masculine, not neuter pronouns are used here. That is not without meaning. These are pronouns, so this isn't just a matter of conforming word syntax. In fact, these masculine pronouns appear in conjunction with feminine and neuter gendered words. So there is a deliberateness to this word choice.

Much love!

 

[keithr]

To reiterate, the blah, blah, blah was not in response to scripture being quoted. It was in response to scripture being pitted against other scripture, which is a bit like a house divided.

However, the Scripture verses I quoted werre not pitted against other verses. I quoted them in regard to your statement, "I still believe Jesus was God. ... and anyone who doesn’t believe it should not be a teacher". The verses I quoted were to indicate that the apostle Paul did not believe that Jesus was God, and he was appointed by Jesus to be a teacher of the Gospel, and so you are wrong to say that anyone who doesn't believe Jesus is God should not be a teacher.

 

[keithr]

It is sad and pathetic to see people that say they know God but do not know that Jesus IS God.
Three but one!!! Almighty God IS Father Son and Holy Spirit just as man is body, soul and spirit = three but one!!

Who revealed that to you? Jesus said Peter was blessed because God revealed to him who Jesus really was:

Matthew 16:15-17 (WEB):

(15) He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?”
(16) Simon Peter answered, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”
(17) Jesus answered him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven.​

And how did God reveal this to Peter? Was it by demons?

Matthew 8:28-29 (WEB):

(28) When he came to the other side, into the country of the Gergesenes, two people possessed by demons met him there, coming out of the tombs, exceedingly fierce, so that nobody could pass that way.
(29) Behold, they cried out, saying, “What do we have to do with you, Jesus, Son of God? Have you come here to torment us before the time?”​

and Mark 3:11 (WEB):

(11) The unclean spirits, whenever they saw him, fell down before him, and cried, “You are the Son of God!”​

Peter answered Jesus, but the other disciples believed it too. After the walking on water event:

Matthew 14:33 (WEB):

(33) Those who were in the boat came and worshiped him, saying, “You are truly the Son of God!”​

 

[stunnedbygrace]

However, the Scripture verses I quoted werre not pitted against other verses. I quoted them in regard to your statement, "I still believe Jesus was God. ... and anyone who doesn’t believe it should not be a teacher". The verses I quoted were to indicate that the apostle Paul did not believe that Jesus was God, and he was appointed by Jesus to be a teacher of the Gospel, and so you are wrong to say that anyone who doesn't believe Jesus is God should not be a teacher.

oh but you WERE pitting verses against other verses. It’s a tactic of the devil. No, I’m not saying you are the devil or are possessed. But what he CAN do is manipulate and argue and muddy things greatly. The manipulations come through our uncrucified flesh and our fears and our unrenewed and unhealed places of mind and emotion. He absolutely can and will hinder and oppress and stir up. He KNOWS there is a certain point at which he will no longer have anything left within us by which to manipulate us. His greatest fear is that we GET to that place because it’s a place where he no longer has any sway on us. He might create some misery through others who can be stirred up still, but he will no longer be able to manipulate US.

 

[Nancy]

oh but you WERE pitting verses against other verses. It’s a tactic of the devil. No, I’m not saying you are the devil or are possessed. But what he CAN do is manipulate and argue and muddy things greatly. The manipulations come through our uncrucified flesh and our fears and our unrenewed and unhealed places of mind and emotion. He absolutely can and will hinder and oppress and stir up. He KNOWS there is a certain point at which he will no longer have anything left within us by which to manipulate us. His greatest fear is that we GET to that place because it’s a place where he no longer has any sway on us. He might create some misery through others who can be stirred up still, but he will no longer be able to manipulate US.

It seems so many do not understand the wiles of Satan and that is mega important. He may be an invisible entity but, we know his ways...does no good to NOT recognize both God and Satan.

 

[Ziggy]

Who revealed that to you? Jesus said Peter was blessed because God revealed to him who Jesus really was:

Matthew 16:15-17 (WEB):

(15) He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?”
(16) Simon Peter answered, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”
(17) Jesus answered him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven.​

And how did God reveal this to Peter? Was it by demons?

Matthew 8:28-29 (WEB):

(28) When he came to the other side, into the country of the Gergesenes, two people possessed by demons met him there, coming out of the tombs, exceedingly fierce, so that nobody could pass that way.
(29) Behold, they cried out, saying, “What do we have to do with you, Jesus, Son of God? Have you come here to torment us before the time?”​

and Mark 3:11 (WEB):

(11) The unclean spirits, whenever they saw him, fell down before him, and cried, “You are the Son of God!”​

Peter answered Jesus, but the other disciples believed it too. After the walking on water event:

Matthew 14:33 (WEB):

(33) Those who were in the boat came and worshiped him, saying, “You are truly the Son of God!”​

It was before that:

Jhn 1:35 Again the next day after John stood, and two of his disciples;
Jhn 1:36 And looking upon Jesus as he walked, he saith, Behold the Lamb of God!
Jhn 1:37 And the two disciples heard him speak, and they followed Jesus.
Jhn 1:38 Then Jesus turned, and saw them following, and saith unto them, What seek ye? They said unto him, Rabbi, (which is to say, being interpreted, Master,) where dwellest thou?
Jhn 1:39 He saith unto them, Come and see. They came and saw where he dwelt, and abode with him that day: for it was about the tenth hour.
Jhn 1:40 One of the two which heard John speak, and followed him, was Andrew, Simon Peter's brother.
Jhn 1:41 He first findeth his own brother Simon, and saith unto him, We have found the Messias, which is, being interpreted, the Christ.

Simon (Peter) heard it from Andrew his brother, who heard it from John the Baptist.
Who told John?

 

[stunnedbygrace]

It seems so many do not understand the wiles of Satan and that is mega important. He may be an invisible entity but, we know his ways...does no good to NOT recognize both God and Satan.

We have only scratched the surface of satans sly and hidden manipulations of us through our own flesh and the flesh of others. But all it takes is that one little inkling and then God can show us and begin to train our hands for war.
He doesn’t do this right away, but He is still working in us. And the reason He doesn’t do it immediately is this: When Pharaoh finally let the people go, God did not lead them along the main road that runs through Philistine territory, even though that was the shortest route to the Promised Land. God said, “If the people are faced with a battle, they might change their minds and return to Egypt.”
He does not send small children into war. They aren’t ready to bear it yet. He is so wise!

 

[CadyandZoe]

Yes, sorry, that was a slip of the finger (or force of habit). I should have typed "Jesus is a god to us". I'll edit the post to correct it.


Actually, in that passage, he referred to himself as "the Son of God" rather than "a god" (verse 36)! He was denying that he was God. The Jews wanted to stone him because they interpreted Jesus saying "I and the Father are one" as Jesus making himself to be God, but Jesus corrected them, denying that he was God and declaring that he was the Son of God.

Okay, thanks for the clarification.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Part of Speech: definite article
Case: Nominative (subject; predicate nominative)
Number: Singular
Gender: Masculine

Show me where you get "thing" from...

J.

Logos:word is a thing.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Logos:word is a thing.

Not the way John uses it it isn’t!
The word became flesh!
So the Word became human and made his home among us. He was full of unfailing love and faithfulness. And we have seen his glory, the glory of the Father’s one and only Son.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Seems like you miss Christ Jesus in all your Old Covenant quotations which brings me to the question.
Where is Christ in the The Old Testament . . .

The term "Christ" comes from the Greek word "christos", which means "annointed". The term "Messiah" comes from the Hebrew word "mashiach", which also means "annointed." The Hebrew scriptures talk about the Messiah, the New Testament scriptures talk about the Christ. They mean the same thing.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Im not a trinitarian…

Have a blessed day.

 

[Jim B]

Jesus and God (and the Holy Spirit) share the same essence: that of being God. They are three different manifestations of the same quality. For example, I am body, mind, and spirit. All of them are me. I am not just my body, I am not just my mind, I am not just my spirit. I am all three!