Those who deny Eternal Security
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TheslightestID
Active Member
No it was no answer at all, it was a talk around a direct answer like I've seen many times, but as I said, no pressure, you don't have to answer them.
Thanks just the same.
Alright, I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree.
It doesn't mean that you aren't saved or anything like that.
Eternal is Eternal, life is life, Eternal Life is Eternal Life not conditional or temporal life.
next..........................................
next..........................................
TheslightestID
Active Member
Hey Newbies out there! Wanna get Saved? Of course you do !
Don’t let well- meaning, but weak, confused Believers that have been poorly taught, complicate what God has made so simple.......
Matt..10:32 Promises this—- “ If ‘YOU’ will confess ‘ME’ before others, “I” will confess “YOU” before the angels of God .”
See how Easy Salvation is ? Run— Don’t walk , from those who try make it complicated. Jesus gave that Promise..... you either take Him at His Word ( Belief) or you do “ not” take Him at His Word ( UNbelief )........
To be able to say and mean “ Jesus is Lord” proves that you have God's Holy Spirit within you....that’s what it takes to get to Heaven, for without it, you are “ None Of His”.....Cast all of your doubts and worries about Salvation aside.Why can we do that? Because that Spirit That enabled you to sincerely say that “ will NEVER leave or Forsake you”......
Believing a Promise Of God is what Faith is......and Faith is what Saves.....God Bless....
Don’t let well- meaning, but weak, confused Believers that have been poorly taught, complicate what God has made so simple.......
Matt..10:32 Promises this—- “ If ‘YOU’ will confess ‘ME’ before others, “I” will confess “YOU” before the angels of God .”
See how Easy Salvation is ? Run— Don’t walk , from those who try make it complicated. Jesus gave that Promise..... you either take Him at His Word ( Belief) or you do “ not” take Him at His Word ( UNbelief )........
To be able to say and mean “ Jesus is Lord” proves that you have God's Holy Spirit within you....that’s what it takes to get to Heaven, for without it, you are “ None Of His”.....Cast all of your doubts and worries about Salvation aside.Why can we do that? Because that Spirit That enabled you to sincerely say that “ will NEVER leave or Forsake you”......
Believing a Promise Of God is what Faith is......and Faith is what Saves.....God Bless....
Actually, in 1 Corinthians 12:3 (kjv), it says the following:
1Co 12:3, Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.
Now, consider that there is one Lord (Ephesians 4:5, Mark 12:29 (kjv)).
The Father is that Lord (Matthew 11:25, Luke 10:21).
It would appear that, if one does not believe in the doctrine of the Oneness Pentecostals to a certain extent, they don't have the Holy Ghost.
1Co 12:3, Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.
Now, consider that there is one Lord (Ephesians 4:5, Mark 12:29 (kjv)).
The Father is that Lord (Matthew 11:25, Luke 10:21).
It would appear that, if one does not believe in the doctrine of the Oneness Pentecostals to a certain extent, they don't have the Holy Ghost.
Rom 10:8, But what saith it <the righteousness of faith>? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
Rom 10:9, That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Rom 10:10, For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
1) You must not only confess the Lord Jesus, you must also believe that God has raised Him from the dead.
2) To confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus is to "agree with God" that Jesus is your Lord. But if He is not truly your Lord, to say that Jesus is your Lord is not a confession, it is a mere mouthing of words. In order for you to agree with God that Jesus is your Lord, God must first say that Jesus is your Lord. And if He is not your Lord, God is not going to say that. Therefore if Jesus is not your Lord, merely mouthing the words "Jesus is Lord" is not going to save you; because you are not agreeing with God on the matter; because God is not saying it in the first place so that you can agree with Him.
Luk 6:46, And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?
Luk 6:47, Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like:
Luk 6:48, He is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock.
Luk 6:49, But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great.
Rom 10:9, That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Rom 10:10, For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
1) You must not only confess the Lord Jesus, you must also believe that God has raised Him from the dead.
2) To confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus is to "agree with God" that Jesus is your Lord. But if He is not truly your Lord, to say that Jesus is your Lord is not a confession, it is a mere mouthing of words. In order for you to agree with God that Jesus is your Lord, God must first say that Jesus is your Lord. And if He is not your Lord, God is not going to say that. Therefore if Jesus is not your Lord, merely mouthing the words "Jesus is Lord" is not going to save you; because you are not agreeing with God on the matter; because God is not saying it in the first place so that you can agree with Him.
Luk 6:46, And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?
Luk 6:47, Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like:
Luk 6:48, He is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock.
Luk 6:49, But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great.
Question: "What is modalism / Modalistic Monarchianism?"
Answer: Modalism and Monarchianism are two false views of the nature of God and of Jesus Christ that appeared in the second and third centuries AD. A modalist views God as one Person instead of three Persons and believes that the Father, Son, and Spirit are simply different modes or forms of the same divine Person. According to modalism, God can switch among three different manifestations. A Monarchian believes in the unity of God (the Latin word monarchia meant “single rule”) to the point that he denies God’s triune nature. Both modalism and Monarchianism inevitably hold to the doctrine of Patripassianism, the teaching that God the Father suffered on the cross with (or as) the Son, and are closely related to Sabellianism.
Monarchianism took two primary forms, Dynamic (or Adoptionist) Monarchianism and Modalistic Monarchianism. Dynamic Monarchianism started with an errant view of the nature of Jesus, specifically, that He was not God but was, at His baptism, empowered by God to do the wonders He did. Modalistic Monarchianism, on the other hand, took the modalistic view that Jesus was God, but only by virtue of the fact that Jesus was one of God’s “manifestations.” According to Monarchianism, the Logos of God has no separate, personal existence of its own. The biblical terms Father, Son, and Spirit are only different names for the same Person, according to the Monarchian.
Modalistic Monarchianism teaches that the unity of God is incompatible with a distinction of Persons within the Godhead. According to modalism, God has variously manifested Himself as the Father (primarily in the Old Testament), as the Son (primarily from Jesus’ conception to His ascension), and as the Holy Spirit (primarily after Jesus’ ascension into heaven). Modalistic Monarchianism has its roots in the false teaching of Noetus of Smyrna around AD 190. Noetus called himself Moses and called his brother Aaron, and he taught that, if Jesus was God, then He must be the same as the Father. Hippolytus of Rome opposed this falsehood in his “Contra Noetum.” An early form of Modalistic Monarchianism was also taught by a priest from Asia Minor named Praxeas, who traveled to Rome and Carthage about AD 206. Tertullian countered the teaching of Praxeas in “Adversus Praxean” around 213. Modalistic Monarchianism and its related heresies were also refuted by Origen, Dionysius of Alexandria, and the Council of Nicea in 325.
A form of Monarchianism still exists today in Oneness Pentecostalism. In oneness theology, which is anti-Trinitarian, there are no distinctions among the Persons of the Godhead. Jesus is God, but He is also the Father and the Spirit. In a slight deviation from ancient modalism, Oneness Pentecostals teach that God is able to manifest Himself in all three “modes” simultaneously, such as at Jesus’ baptism in Luke 3:22.
The Bible presents God as one God (Deuteronomy 6:4), but then speaks of three Persons—the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit (Matthew 28:19). How these two truths harmonize is inconceivable to the human mind. When we attempt to understand the inscrutable, we will always fail to varying degrees. But Scripture is plain: God exists in three co-eternal, co-equal Persons. Jesus prayed to His Father (Luke 22:42) and now sits on the right hand of the Father in heaven (Hebrews 1:3). The Father and the Son sent the Spirit into the world (John 14:26; 15:26). Modalism and the more specific Modalistic Monarchianism are theologically dangerous because they attack the very nature of God. Any teaching that does not acknowledge God as three distinct Persons is unbiblical.
Sabellianism is an unbiblical denial of the eternal distinctions among the Persons of the Trinity. On one level, it is easy to see why Sabellianism has been so popular throughout the centuries—it is certainly much easier to understand Sabellianism than it is to understand the biblical doctrine of the Trinity. However, the Bible presents God as one God and also speaks of three Persons. As difficult as it is to understand, the Trinity is the truth. The Athanasian Creed puts it well: “We worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity; Neither confounding the persons nor dividing the substance. For there is one person of the Father, another of the Son, and another of the Holy Spirit. . . . So the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God; And yet they are not three Gods, but one God.”got?
hope this helps !!!
Answer: Modalism and Monarchianism are two false views of the nature of God and of Jesus Christ that appeared in the second and third centuries AD. A modalist views God as one Person instead of three Persons and believes that the Father, Son, and Spirit are simply different modes or forms of the same divine Person. According to modalism, God can switch among three different manifestations. A Monarchian believes in the unity of God (the Latin word monarchia meant “single rule”) to the point that he denies God’s triune nature. Both modalism and Monarchianism inevitably hold to the doctrine of Patripassianism, the teaching that God the Father suffered on the cross with (or as) the Son, and are closely related to Sabellianism.
Monarchianism took two primary forms, Dynamic (or Adoptionist) Monarchianism and Modalistic Monarchianism. Dynamic Monarchianism started with an errant view of the nature of Jesus, specifically, that He was not God but was, at His baptism, empowered by God to do the wonders He did. Modalistic Monarchianism, on the other hand, took the modalistic view that Jesus was God, but only by virtue of the fact that Jesus was one of God’s “manifestations.” According to Monarchianism, the Logos of God has no separate, personal existence of its own. The biblical terms Father, Son, and Spirit are only different names for the same Person, according to the Monarchian.
Modalistic Monarchianism teaches that the unity of God is incompatible with a distinction of Persons within the Godhead. According to modalism, God has variously manifested Himself as the Father (primarily in the Old Testament), as the Son (primarily from Jesus’ conception to His ascension), and as the Holy Spirit (primarily after Jesus’ ascension into heaven). Modalistic Monarchianism has its roots in the false teaching of Noetus of Smyrna around AD 190. Noetus called himself Moses and called his brother Aaron, and he taught that, if Jesus was God, then He must be the same as the Father. Hippolytus of Rome opposed this falsehood in his “Contra Noetum.” An early form of Modalistic Monarchianism was also taught by a priest from Asia Minor named Praxeas, who traveled to Rome and Carthage about AD 206. Tertullian countered the teaching of Praxeas in “Adversus Praxean” around 213. Modalistic Monarchianism and its related heresies were also refuted by Origen, Dionysius of Alexandria, and the Council of Nicea in 325.
A form of Monarchianism still exists today in Oneness Pentecostalism. In oneness theology, which is anti-Trinitarian, there are no distinctions among the Persons of the Godhead. Jesus is God, but He is also the Father and the Spirit. In a slight deviation from ancient modalism, Oneness Pentecostals teach that God is able to manifest Himself in all three “modes” simultaneously, such as at Jesus’ baptism in Luke 3:22.
The Bible presents God as one God (Deuteronomy 6:4), but then speaks of three Persons—the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit (Matthew 28:19). How these two truths harmonize is inconceivable to the human mind. When we attempt to understand the inscrutable, we will always fail to varying degrees. But Scripture is plain: God exists in three co-eternal, co-equal Persons. Jesus prayed to His Father (Luke 22:42) and now sits on the right hand of the Father in heaven (Hebrews 1:3). The Father and the Son sent the Spirit into the world (John 14:26; 15:26). Modalism and the more specific Modalistic Monarchianism are theologically dangerous because they attack the very nature of God. Any teaching that does not acknowledge God as three distinct Persons is unbiblical.
Sabellianism is an unbiblical denial of the eternal distinctions among the Persons of the Trinity. On one level, it is easy to see why Sabellianism has been so popular throughout the centuries—it is certainly much easier to understand Sabellianism than it is to understand the biblical doctrine of the Trinity. However, the Bible presents God as one God and also speaks of three Persons. As difficult as it is to understand, the Trinity is the truth. The Athanasian Creed puts it well: “We worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity; Neither confounding the persons nor dividing the substance. For there is one person of the Father, another of the Son, and another of the Holy Spirit. . . . So the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God; And yet they are not three Gods, but one God.”got?
hope this helps !!!
Well.....that was about as clear as mud....lol.....wow..... what on “earth” are you trying to say here ?
Act 24:14, But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:
I suppose that I am in good company with Paul.
And of course, my belief does not conform to your traditional Sabellianism; because I do believe that the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are distinct individuals within the Godhead, even as is stated by the creeds.
But the devil fights hard against the real Trinity being understood by people; because if people really do come to the knowledge of what it is really all about, they will be safeguarded against being deceived by the cults. Because every cult departs from the doctrine of the Trinity in some way, shape, or form; and therefore knowing what it truly is would be a death blow to many aspects of satan's kingdom.
I emphasize the Oneness in the Godhead in order to safeguard people from erring on the side of Tritheism; which many people do who even think that they believe in the Trinity.
It should be clear that there is one Spirit (Ephesians 4:4); the Father (John 4:23-24), the Son (Ephesians 3:17, Colossians 1:27, 1 John 5:12), and the Holy Ghost (John 7:39, 2 Timothy 1:14).
There is one Lord (Ephesians 4:5); the Father (Matthew 11:25, Luke 10:21), the Son (1 Corinthians 8:6, 1 Corinthians 12:3) and the Holy Ghost (2 Corinthians 3:17).
There is one God (Ephesians 4:6, 1 Corinthians 8:6); the Father (Ephesians 4:6, 1 Corinthians 8:6, James 3:9 (kjv), Romans 15:6), the Son (Hebrews 1:8-9; John 8:58, Exodus 3:14; John 8:59, John 10:31-33; John 8:24), and the Holy Ghost (Acts of the Apostles 5:3-4, Romans 8:26-27).
There are not nine members in the Trinity.
Now, with this in mind, consider the following passages.
Eph 4:4, There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
Eph 4:5, One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
Eph 4:6, One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
1Co 12:4, Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.
1Co 12:5, And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.
1Co 12:6, And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.
I know that if anyone looks up the verses and does not harden their heart to the testimony of them, they will be convinced of the truth; if they think on the implications long enough.
For in declaring these things, I am being obedient to the following.
Tit 2:1, But speak thou the things which become sound doctrine:
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Those with a spiritual mind will be able to understand what I have said there (1 Corinthians 2:14).
Therefore my teaching is not modalism.
The doctrine of Patripassianism would appear to be substantiated by at least two passages...Romans 4:24-25 and Hebrews 9:16-22.
I do not believe that.
I do not believe that, either.
In Oneness Pentecotalism, there is one name for God...Jesus Christ. Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are different titles for the same Person.
I most certainly believe in a distinction between the Persons of the Godhead; though I consider myself to be Oneness to a specific degree.
Consider what is written in Colossians 2:9 (kjv)...
Col 2:9, For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
It is not inconceivable. However, it must be accepted on faith.
Therefore my teaching is not unbiblical; although I count myself among my Oneness brothers and sisters.
Most certainly there is a distinction between the Father and the Son. The Father is an Omnipresent Spirit who inhabits eternity. Jesus is the same Spirit, if He be God (John 4:24, Ephesians 4:4) who has taken on an added nature of humanity.
Otherwise, you have a 2nd God, or else 1/3 of God, descending to become a Man. And such an idea is not biblical.
The truth is that Jesus was begotten in the incarnation (Luke 1:35).
Indeed; and my contention is against those who would divide the substance. And I am also not guilty of confounding the Persons.
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Yeah....try to turn it into a “ Spiritual “ Thing when all it is is extremely sloppy writing....gobbledygook.
All you need to do is go back and write it again....I am not accusing you of writing falsehoods ....
I believe that what I have written is easily understandable if you will not be lazy but will apply yourself to understand what I have written.
If you apply yourself and still cannot understand it, then I would blame the principle found in 1 Corinthians 2:14.
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