Three Days and Three Nights

[zeke25]

zeke.............if ya only knew how much of the word Ol Jack eats..crums and all......leaves nothin for the rest of us.
And never asks for Rolaids........and still keeps that strappin figure.

Your icons remind me of an old song...Break these chains from my heart and set me free

 

[shturt678s]

Your icons remind me of an old song...Break these chains from my heart and set me free

Thank you brother zeke...you did force my hand where I had to call in a life-line, brother RANDOR thus just giving you a head's up...you're being double teamed ergo put on the full armor of God, ie, you made me open up the Good Book and will get back to yuh.

Old Jack looking for my glasses again and getting hungry for the Word...pass me Mark brother RANDOR!

btw you could be right with your interpretation, we're only keeping you on your toes...not walking on egg shells however.


Only an uneducated opinion brother zeke, Mk.15:42, "And evening having already come, since it was Preparation Day, which is pro-Sabbath day," Remember the Jews determined when the next day began by seeing the 1st star in the sky...not even an issue now, correct...old hat? However let's break this down a little more.

Still only 2nd semester Koine, with opsias "evening" in the genitive absolute we only need to supply wras, "a late hour having arrived." The expression may be used to designate both evening, the first from three to six, and the second from six to nine, basic stuff, you got it. The first is referenced here grammatically and contextually. And this mention of time goes together with another. Once you relook at the ol' genitive absolute, a piece of pie. The new day began at sundown of course!

This was Friday, hence paraaskeue, "Preparation Day," which Mark translates for his Gentile Christian readers contextually as "pro-Sabbath day," the day before the Sabbath began which is called "Preparation" because everything that was needed for the Sabbath had to be prepared on this day, correct brother zeke, beginning with dinner in the evening after the 1st star routine. So the time left between the death and the entombment was brief, correct? A walk in the park for us working together.

Jn.18:28, "...but might eat the Passover." A walk in the park as no genitive absolute here. The Paschal lamb was not eaten until some time after the 1st star routine, a given. "to eat the Passover" may mean to eat the Paschal lamb, when the connection so requires contextually; but it may also mean to eat of the other sacrificial feasts, the so-called Chagigah, during the seven days of the celebration, correct brother zeke?

The Chagigah on the 15th of Nisan (Friday) was especially attractive. Whereas the eating of the lamb on Thursday evening was a sad and a solemn celebration, the Chagigah of sacrificial meats on Friday was regarding as a feast of great joy. This, however, was eaten during the after noon before the first star brother zeke, correct? Will cut this one short as you get the idea.

Only old Jack's opinion thus could very well be in error...will let brother RANDOR digest this a little and see what he comes up with?

Thank you again brother zeke

 

[zeke25]

Thank you brother zeke...you did force my hand where I had to call in a life-line, brother RANDOR thus just giving you a head's up...you're being double teamed ergo put on the full armor of God, ie, you made me open up the Good Book and will get back to yuh.

Old Jack looking for my glasses again and getting hungry for the Word...pass me Mark brother RANDOR!

btw you could be right with your interpretation, we're only keeping you on your toes...not walking on egg shells however.


Only an uneducated opinion brother zeke, Mk.15:42, "And evening having already come, since it was Preparation Day, which is pro-Sabbath day," Remember the Jews determined when the next day began by seeing the 1st star in the sky...not even an issue now, correct...old hat? However let's break this down a little more.

Still only 2nd semester Koine, with opsias "evening" in the genitive absolute we only need to supply wras, "a late hour having arrived." The expression may be used to designate both evening, the first from three to six, and the second from six to nine, basic stuff, you got it. The first is referenced here grammatically and contextually. And this mention of time goes together with another. Once you relook at the ol' genitive absolute, a piece of pie. The new day began at sundown of course!

This was Friday, hence paraaskeue, "Preparation Day," which Mark translates for his Gentile Christian readers contextually as "pro-Sabbath day," the day before the Sabbath began which is called "Preparation" because everything that was needed for the Sabbath had to be prepared on this day, correct brother zeke, beginning with dinner in the evening after the 1st star routine. So the time left between the death and the entombment was brief, correct? A walk in the park for us working together.

Jn.18:28, "...but might eat the Passover." A walk in the park as no genitive absolute here. The Paschal lamb was not eaten until some time after the 1st star routine, a given. "to eat the Passover" may mean to eat the Paschal lamb, when the connection so requires contextually; but it may also mean to eat of the other sacrificial feasts, the so-called Chagigah, during the seven days of the celebration, correct brother zeke?

The Chagigah on the 15th of Nisan (Friday) was especially attractive. Whereas the eating of the lamb on Thursday evening was a sad and a solemn celebration, the Chagigah of sacrificial meats on Friday was regarding as a feast of great joy. This, however, was eaten during the after noon before the first star brother zeke, correct? Will cut this one short as you get the idea.

Only old Jack's opinion thus could very well be in error...will let brother RANDOR digest this a little and see what he comes up with?

Thank you again brother zeke

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink. Its never been between you and me, its always been between you and God. Your decision was already made a long time ago. I have to prepare now for the children who are thirsty. Good night.

 

[shturt678s]

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink. Its never been between you and me, its always been between you and God. Your decision was already made a long time ago. I have to prepare now for the children who are thirsty. Good night.

Thank you for your response again!

Old Jack

 

[rstrats]

Someone new looking in may know of some writing.

 

[heretoeternity]

Thank you zeke!

Jn.19:14 has always been my take off passage regarding this issue, "Now it was the Passover Preparation;...." This should be of no issue whatever. Lk.23:54 writes, "it was the day of the preparation, and the Sabbath drew on"; compare Matt.27:62. Mk.15:42 has, "the preparation, that is, the day before the Sabbath," "the pro-Sabbath." And John himself repeats "the preparation," in Jn.19:31 and 42.

All this means that the day of the condemnation and the crucifixion of Jesus is Friday. Because it preceded the Sabbath it was called "the preparation" in the sense that this was its regular and common name at that time zeke.
.
Old Jack only positing down a reference point we can both take to the bank.


The Sabbath they are referring to is the annual Sabbath the first day of unleavened bread..that is the High Sabbath they are referring to..not the weekly Sabbath, which followed on the 7th day....

The Sabbath day to which the Bible is referring is the annual Sabbath, first day unleavened bread, which is the next day to the Passover, on which Jesus was crucified...this annual Sabbath is referred to as a high day in the Bible..the weekly seventh day Sabbath followed a couple of days later.

 

[rstrats]

heretoeternity,


Since you're not a 6th day of the week crucifiction advocate, you probably don't know of any writing.

 

[heretoeternity]

Why would anyone be a 6th day of the week advocate it does not fit the Bible. This is in keeping with most of the Roman church doctrines it has flooded "christianity" with. Know the truth and it will make you free!

 

[sjmopas]

Even though Jesus was Jewish He wasn't limited to the idioms or traditions of the Jews. Remember the Isradlites rebelled against the ways of God many times, and in Jesus' day were wrong in a lot of things.

Jesus said that there were twleve hours in a day, and remember, He's the one who established that in the beginning. Did He forget that a day has 24 hours? No, He was only referring to the morning part of a day. So, despite the fact that others, perhaps the whole of the Jewish nation, considered any part of a day as a whole day, Jesus didn't have to; and I believe He didn't. He was clear. There are 12 hours of morning and twelve hours of evening in each day. I don't think He changed His mind about that when talking about how long He would be in the grave. That is why, I believe He was specific, "three days (mornings) and the nights (evenins). If Jesus had said, even once, "three days." and left out nights, then the idiom theory would carry more weight. I think everyone here would say, "Amen." to the idea that we shouldn't read our thoughts and culture into scripture. The same is true of Jewish thought and culture, not everything they did was God's truth. Remeber even their wisest king fell into idolatry. The jews could be wrong to account any part of a day as a representation of the whole day.

 

[rstrats]

sjmopas,

Since you apparently are not a 6th day of the week crucifixion advocate, you probably won't know of any writing.


re: "There are ...twelve hours of evening in each day...the nights (evenins)."


John 20:19 says: "Then, the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled, for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood in the midst..." Based on your above comment, would you say that the assembly took place during the night portion of the first calendar day of the week?

 

[sjmopas]

Hi rstrats,

I am not sure what you mean when you say, "...you probably won't know of any writings", can you clarify?


About John 20:

I think it's important to concider the surrounding context. Chapter 19 ends with Jesus being laid in the tomb, and Chapter 20 ends with it being eight days later.

1 Now on the first day of the week Mary Magdalene went to the tomb early, while it was still dark, and saw that the stone had been taken away from the tomb.

I think most Christians imagine this to be pretty close to sunrise on what we in the United States call Sunday. The Jews, however, mark their seven day week different than us. I believe that this verse is refering to what we call Saturday night. Here where I live, there are times where sundown is as early as 5:30 pm, even though we don't say its the next day until midnight. When it says she went "early" I believe it's saying she went pretty soon after sundown on Saturday. The phrase "while it was still dark" can give off the sense that it was close to daylight, but I believe it is refering to the fact that she was eager to go to where the Lord was, and she went at a time that was very risky. I bleieve it was still dark when she arrived at the tomb, and when she saw Jesus. Most children's books have this scene drawn out in the daytime, we see it like this so much, and in so many places.

19 Then, the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled,[fn] for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood in the midst, and said to them, "Peace be with you."

If verse one is referring to Saturday night, then so is this verse.

If your question is refering to the Jewish calendar week? My answer is yes.

If you are referring to the Gregorian calendar? My answer is no.

 

[rstrats]

sjmopas,

re: "I am not sure what you mean when you say, '...you probably won't know of any writings', can you clarify?"


Perhaps I'm wrong and you do know of some writing from the first century or before which shows a phrase stating a specific number of days and/or a specific number of nights when it absolutely couldn't have included at least a part of each one of the specific number of days and at least a part of each one of the specific number of nights. If so, I wonder if you might quote it?


re: "If verse one is referring to Saturday night, then so is this verse [19]."

It isn't; verse 1 says it is the first day of the week.



re: "If your question is referring to the Jewish calendar week? My answer is yes. If you are referring to the Gregorian calendar? My answer is no."

What is the difference between a Jewish calendar week and a Gregorian calendar week? They both consist of seven days.

 

[sjmopas]

Rstrats,

re: "What is the difference between a Jewish calendar week and a Gregorian calendar week? They both consist of seven days."

Both have seven days, but the beginning of each day's 24 hours is different. A day on the Gregorian calendar begins at midnight, where a day on the Jewish calendar begins at sunset, anywhere from 5-7 p.m.

The "first day" of the week referred to in John 20:1 is not the 24 hour period we think of here in the U.S. from midnight to midnight; it is Saturday sundown to Sunday sundown. The phrase "First day of the week", in the Jewish context, would begin at a time we in the U.S. would say is still Saturday evening, the 7th day of the week; "The evening and the morning were the first day..." etc.

Sorry if I made this clear as mud.

 

[rstrats]

sjmopas,

OK, my bad. Since it had nothing to do with the OP, I apparently had a senior moment when I made the comment in post #170 regarding John 20:1. I have another topic about John 20:1 and I must have inadvertently had that in mind when I asked about it.

 

[rstrats]

Since it has been awhile, perhaps someone new looking in who thinks that the crucifixion took place on the 6th day of the week, and who thinks that the three nights specified in Matthew 12:40 actually means two nights because the verse is using common Jewish idiomatic language, will know of some writing as requested in the OP.

 

[rstrats]

heretoeternity,

re: "Why would anyone be a 6th day of the week [crucifixion] advocate..."


I don't know, but it seems that a large percentage of those who consider themselves to be Christian actually hold to that position.

 

[rstrats]

Perhaps someone new looking in will have an answer to heretoeternity's question.

 

[Webers_Home]

Why would anyone be a 6th day of the week advocate

It's actually an honest mistake due to the ambiguity of the word "sabbath"
which can indicate the standard weekly no-work day and it can also indicate
the no-work day attached to the beginning of the Feast of Unleavened Bread
(Ex 12:14-17, John 19:31) which coincides with the night of the Passover lamb.

I suspect that the Magisterium managed to sort out this bit of confusion long
ago but instead of going to the trouble of trying to explain it to the average
rank and file pew warmer, they decided instead to make it easy on the
faithful by designating Friday for crucifixion day similar to Americans
designating Thursday as Thanksgiving day; viz: Friday may not be
chronologically accurate, but it's convenient.

FYI: Other feast days with no-work days attached to them are Yom Kippur,
and the Feast of Trumpets.

=========================================

...

 

[rstrats]

Perhaps I need to further modify the OP to make it more clear as to what I'm looking for:

Whenever the three days and three nights of Matthew 12:40 is brought up in a "discussion" with 6th day of the week crucifixion advocates, they frequently suggest that it is a common Jewish idiom for counting any part of a day as a whole day. While this is true - that a part of a calendar day was counted as a whole day, I wonder if anyone has documentation that shows an example from the first century or before regarding a period of time that is said to consist of a specific number of days and/or a specific number of nights where the period of time absolutely couldn't have included at least a part of each one of the specific number of days and at least a part of each one of the specific number of nights? If it was a common idiom, there ought to be examples in order to make that assertion.

 

[Bibliocentrist]

i read a few pages but wasn't able to read all 6 pages. i am not sure myself of the exact correct days match. I had thought might link with cut off in mid of week, and 3 & a half days, but from this jewish calendar i put together that can't be right:

Rosh Hashanah/new yr – 1Nisan/Mar17
[preparation 13nisan?]
Pesach/passover/paschal – 14Nisan/Mar 31
paschalFeast of Unleav Br beg 14/15Nisan/Mar 31
First Fruits of barley off 15/16Nisan/Apr3
Feast of Unleavened Bread conclu 20/21nisan/Apr7
2nd passover 14zif/iyyar
lag B'omer/counting omer 50 days pesach to shavot
Shavuot/pentecost/ffowh 6sivan/May22?
taking of Jerus 7/17thammuz
fast/destr of Temple/tisha B'av 7/9ab/aviv
Yom Teruah/trumps/Rosh Hs/New Yr 1tisri/Sep10
Yom Kippur/day of atone 10tisri/Sep19
Sukkot/tabernacles/booths/ffw&o 15-21tisri/Sep24
Last Great Day #tisri/Oct1
Hanukkah/lts/dedication 25chislev/Dec1-9
siege Jerus 7tebheth
tu B'shvat/planting trees latJan/earFeb
feast of purim 14/15Adar
Fast of Esther 11veadar/Feb16
Purim 14/15veadar/Feb17-19