Time periods of Daniel and Revelation

[Questor]

You say Israel; the Jews are set aside. True, as Jesus said in Matthew 21:43.....the Kingdom is taken from them.....

Yeshua never said that the Kingdom was taken from the Jews, but from the Religious Leaders he was quoting parables at among the Jews listening that expected to be ruling with Mashiach...their Mashiach of course, ignoring the fact that Yeshua met all the qualifications for Mashiach at that time. You need only read Matthew 21:43 in context, instead of lifting it from the pages of Scripture and wrapping your own meaning around the words.

Matthew 21:23-46 (NKJV)
23 Now when He came into the temple, the chief priests and the elders of the people confronted Him as He was teaching, and said, "By what authority are You doing these things? And who gave You this authority?"
24 But Jesus answered and said to them, "I also will ask you one thing, which if you tell Me, I likewise will tell you by what authority I do these things:
25 The baptism of John--where was it from? From heaven or from men?" And they reasoned among themselves, saying, "If we say, 'From heaven,' He will say to us, 'Why then did you not believe him?'
26 But if we say, 'From men,' we fear the multitude, for all count John as a prophet."
27 So they answered Jesus and said, "We do not know." And He said to them, "Neither will I tell you by what authority I do these things.
28 "But what do you think? A man had two sons, and he came to the first and said, 'Son, go, work today in my vineyard.'
29 He answered and said, 'I will not,' but afterward he regretted it and went.
30 Then he came to the second and said likewise. And he answered and said, 'I go, sir,' but he did not go.
31 Which of the two did the will of his father?" They said to Him, "The first." Jesus said to them, "Assuredly, I say to you that tax collectors and harlots enter the kingdom of God before you.
32 For John came to you in the way of righteousness, and you did not believe him; but tax collectors and harlots believed him; and when you saw it, you did not afterward relent and believe him.
33 "Hear another parable: There was a certain landowner who planted a vineyard and set a hedge around it, dug a winepress in it and built a tower. And he leased it to vinedressers and went into a far country.
34 Now when vintage-time drew near, he sent his servants to the vinedressers, that they might receive its fruit.
35 And the vinedressers took his servants, beat one, killed one, and stoned another.
36 Again he sent other servants, more than the first, and they did likewise to them.
37 Then last of all he sent his son to them, saying, 'They will respect my son.'
38 But when the vinedressers saw the son, they said among themselves, 'This is the heir. Come, let us kill him and seize his inheritance.'
39 So they took him and cast him out of the vineyard and killed him.
40 Therefore, when the owner of the vineyard comes, what will he do to those vinedressers?"
41 They said to Him, "He will destroy those wicked men miserably, and lease his vineyard to other vinedressers who will render to him the fruits in their seasons."
42 Jesus said to them, "Have you never read in the Scriptures: 'The stone which the builders rejected Has become the chief cornerstone. This was the LORD'S doing, And it is marvelous in our eyes'?
43 "Therefore I say to you, the kingdom of God will be taken from you and given to a nation bearing the fruits of it.
44 And whoever falls on this stone will be broken; but on whomever it falls, it will grind him to powder."
45 Now when the chief priests and Pharisees heard His parables, they perceived that He was speaking of them.
46 But when they sought to lay hands on Him, they feared the multitudes, because they took Him for a prophet.


Why does no one think about the Jews having any promises to Abraham carried out in the Kingdom apart from the Righteous Ones that will be changed?

Why do you assume that Yeshua speaks to the Nations not yet hearing these parables rather than the Jews at the time he spoke? Do you not think that they would be cherished by G-d because of Abraham?

Does no one think that G-d will keep his UNCONDITIONAL promise to Abraham's seed? The unconditional Land Promise by G-d to Abraham is still outstanding.

Why is the remnant that is kept safe after the Rapture of Believers, Jew or Gentile, not brought into the Kingdom to form the mortal portion of Israel in the Messianic Kingdom? Is Yeshua ruling his Righteous Ones with a rod of Iron?

 

[Keraz]

Does no one think that G-d will keep his UNCONDITIONAL promise to Abraham's seed? The unconditional Land Promise by G-d to Abraham is still outstanding.

Who is Abrahams Seed?

Galatians 3:16 ​

You are in serious error if you think the Jews are it.

Jesus is the One and only Seed of Abraham and His followers are the inheritors of God's promises to Israel. Ephesians 3:6 & 1:11-14, Romans 8:16-18, Galatians 3:26-29
ALL the Promises of God are fulfilled thru Jesus. 2 Corinthians 1:20

So it will be every faithful Christian who will occupy all of the holy Land, soon after the entire Middle East is cleared and cleansed by the terrible Day of the Lords wrath. Ezekiel 34:11-16, Isaiah 35:1-10, Deuteronomy 32:34-43
www.logostelos.info

 

[Stranger]

Obviously you can't find any scriptural proof for your fanciful notions.

No, but I am shocked by the nonsense that the Commentators say about the prophesies and to rely on what the 'highly qualified' scholars say, is to believe error. Jesus said: I Thank you Father for hiding these things from the wise and educated and giving them to the simple and uneducated. Matthew 11:25

His people are every born again Christian, all who call upon His Name. Joel 2:32, Acts 2:21 They will be protected during His terrible Day of wrath.

Please do not cast aspersions toward God.
He will not forsake His own people, they are His Israelites, literally His Overcomers and Victorious ones.
If you think God still loves the Jews, you are wrong; they forsook Him and even cursed themselves. Matthew 27:25

You have already tried and failed miserably to find anywhere in scripture where it says God will take His people to heaven.
Assumptions and guesswork don't cut it.

Actually I just gave you two.

Yes, Christians are God's people. But God's people in the Tribulation are not Christians.

"Cast aspersions toward God"? (Jer. 31:27-28) "Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will sow the house of Israel and the house of Judah with the seed of man...as I have watched over them, to pluck up, and to break down, and to throw down, and to destroy, and to afflict; so will I watch over them, to build, and to plant, saith the LORD."

(Jer.31:31) "Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:....and I will remember their sin no more.

(Jer. 31:35-37) "Thus saith the LORD, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The LORD of hosts is his name: If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the LORD then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.

"Thus saith the LORD; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the LORD."

So, tell me...what type of measuring device did you measure heaven with?

Stranger

 

[Keraz]

(Jer.31:31) "Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:....and I will remember their sin no more.

The New Covenant is mediated by Jesus, Hebrews 8:6, with those who believe in Him and keep His Commandments.
It is Christians, Jews and Gentiles; all grafted into the Root and Trunk of the Olive Tree: Jesus, who is the true Israel and His followers are true Israelites, by faith.

 

[Stranger]

The New Covenant is mediated by Jesus, Hebrews 8:6, with those who believe in Him and keep His Commandments.
It is Christians, Jews and Gentiles; all grafted into the Root and Trunk of the Olive Tree: Jesus, who is the true Israel and His followers are true Israelites, by faith.

Of course the Church is brought into the New Covenant. So what? I have always said that.

But the Church is not Israel. And Israel will come into the New Covenant also. (Jer. 31:31). The Scripture is clear. What is foggy is your making Israel, the Church.

So again, concering (Jer. 31:35-37), what type of measuring device did you use to measure heaven with?

Stranger

 

[Keraz]

But the Church is not Israel

The established Church is not the Jewish State of Israel. Agreed.

But the born again faithful Christian people of God are the Israelites of God. His Overcomers, as the Hebrew word Israel means.
The Jews do have a separate destiny and over 20 prophesies tell us about it. Result: only a remnant will be saved. Romans 9:27

Your belief of the Church going to heaven, a fanciful dream that is quite impossible, while the Jews go thru Tribulation and finally come to Jesus, is nothing but a fable; made up fiction, with no Biblical support.
The chance for the Jews to accept Jesus has been for the last 2000 years. They still reject Him and will die for it. Isaiah 22:14

 

[Stranger]

The established Church is not the Jewish State of Israel. Agreed.

But the born again faithful Christian people of God are the Israelites of God. His Overcomers, as the Hebrew word Israel means.
The Jews do have a separate destiny and over 20 prophesies tell us about it. Result: only a remnant will be saved. Romans 9:27

Your belief of the Church going to heaven, a fanciful dream that is quite impossible, while the Jews go thru Tribulation and finally come to Jesus, is nothing but a fable; made up fiction, with no Biblical support.
The chance for the Jews to accept Jesus has been for the last 2000 years. They still reject Him and will die for it. Isaiah 22:14

The Church is not Israel, period.

The born-again believers do not become Israelites. Israel does have a separate destiny than the Church. But the believing in this age are not part of Israel's destiny.

You fail again to answer my question. What measuring device did you use to measure Heaven with? (Jer. 31:35-37)

Stranger

 

[Keraz]

The Lord will protect and save His faithful people, be they Jews or Gentiles.
But those who reject Him, will be thrown out of the Kingdom, Matthew 8:10-12 and the Kingdom is given to those who bear the proper fruit. Matthew 21:43
Your idea of a Jewish redemption is never stated in the Bible. It is the Israel of God, the spiritual Israelites, who are the nation the Lord will have as His priests and co-rulers. Revelation 5:9-10

The scripture in Jeremiah 31:35-37 does point to a genetically identified people, but we have the plain teachings of the New Testament, that say how we Christians are deemed to be children of Abraham by our faith. Galatians 3:26-29, Romans 9:24-26
Going back to the OT to support your case, means you deny the teachings of Jesus and the Apostles.

 

[Stranger]

The Lord will protect and save His faithful people, be they Jews or Gentiles.
But those who reject Him, will be thrown out of the Kingdom, Matthew 8:10-12 and the Kingdom is given to those who bear the proper fruit. Matthew 21:43
Your idea of a Jewish redemption is never stated in the Bible. It is the Israel of God, the spiritual Israelites, who are the nation the Lord will have as His priests and co-rulers. Revelation 5:9-10

The scripture in Jeremiah 31:35-37 does point to a genetically identified people, but we have the plain teachings of the New Testament, that say how we Christians are deemed to be children of Abraham by our faith. Galatians 3:26-29, Romans 9:24-26
Going back to the OT to support your case, means you deny the teachings of Jesus and the Apostles.

Yes, and in (Jer. 31:35-37), that people is Israel. Which you fail to admit.

Of course we who are Christians are children of Abraham by faith. So what? I have never denied that. But we who are Christians do not become Israel.

What a lame rule you have come up with. You say, "Going back to the Old Testament to support your case, means you deny the teachings of Jesus and the Apostles." Funny that Jesus and the apostle's constantly went back to the Old Testament. "It is written". You have now proceeded on very dangerous ground. Not only do you resort to allegory for those Scriptures that you don't like, but you now claim I cannot use the Old Testament to support what I say. I guess you only carry the New Testament, correct? One thing is sure...you admit the Old Testament is proof of God's forever support of the nation Israel and that He will accomplish His purpose with that nation.

So, again, what type of measuring device did you use to measure Heaven? (Jer. 31:35-37)

Stranger

 

[Keraz]

You say, "Going back to the Old Testament to support your case, means you deny the teachings of Jesus and the Apostles."

You deny that Christians; be they Jewish or from every nation and language, are the true children of Abraham.

we have the plain teachings of the New Testament, that say how we Christians are deemed to be children of Abraham by our faith. Galatians 3:26-29, Romans 9:24-26

The Jews have been rejected as the chosen of God, as they rejected Jesus.
They belong to the synagogue of Satan. Revelation 2:9
They will be thrown into the outer darkness, Matthew 8:11-12
They are cursed and will never bear fruit. Matthew 21:19
They will be smashed like a clay pot. Jeremiah 19:10-13
The Lord will kill the righteous and the wicked alike.. Ezekiel 21:1-7

And there's plenty more, so your precious idea of being 'raptured to heaven' while the Jews face trib and finally accept Jesus, is just a false theory that cannot happen.

 

[Stranger]

You deny that Christians; be they Jewish or from every nation and language, are the true children of Abraham.

The Jews have been rejected as the chosen of God, as they rejected Jesus.
They belong to the synagogue of Satan. Revelation 2:9
They will be thrown into the outer darkness, Matthew 8:11-12
They are cursed and will never bear fruit. Matthew 21:19
They will be smashed like a clay pot. Jeremiah 19:10-13
The Lord will kill the righteous and the wicked alike.. Ezekiel 21:1-7

And there's plenty more, so your precious idea of being 'raptured to heaven' while the Jews face trib and finally accept Jesus, is just a false theory that cannot happen.

I don't deny that Christians, because they are the Church, are made up of both Jew and Gentile. I don't deny that they are true children of Abraham. I just don't try and make them Israel, as you do.

Yes, the Jews have been set aside. Yes, at present they are of the synogouge of satan. Yes, many will be thrown into outer darkness. At present they are cursed, but that is temporary, as I showed you in (Jer. 31:35-37). Yes, there is and will be terrible judgement against Israel. But none of these things causes God to do away with Israel. He won't.

And, by the way, why are you giving me these Old Testament verses and identifying them with Israel, when all the while you have been telling me that this Israel in the Old Testament is speaking to the Church. Make up your mind. Of course with allegory, one can make up anything.

What about (Rev. 3:10)? And what about the measuring device you used to measure Heaven? (Jer. 31:35-37) I would like to know what it was.

Stranger

 

[Keraz]

And, by the way, why are you giving me these Old Testament verses and identifying them with Israel, when all the while you have been telling me that this Israel in the Old Testament is speaking to the Church.

The Promises of God to ethnic Israel are fulfilled through Jesus. 2 Corinthians 1:20 As followers of Jesus, we Christians are the inheritors of the holy Land and Gods promised Blessings to His people. Ephesians 1:10-14, Romans 9:24-26, +
Denying these plain scriptures is a serious mistake. And thinking that those who call themselves Jews will receive those Promises, is plain crazy.
The OT verses I quoted in #70, are directly applied to Judah; the Jews.

What about Revelation 3:10? Does that verse mean you get taken to heaven? It means, as can be proved from many other verses, that the Lord will protect His own during His wrath. 1 Corinthians 10:13
The Israel God has said He would be faithful to, was never every Israelite person. Remember Korah? And the priests of Baal?
Now; will He redeem and forgive those people, who for nearly 2000 years have continued to reject Jesus, who are now mostly atheists, apostate, LGBT people and who rely on their own strength for protection?
He will not and many prophesies prove they will soon be Judged and punished; only a remnant will survive. Romans 9:27
Your dream of going to heaven, while the Jews face Tribulation and eventually come to Jesus, is an unbiblical and fanciful theory that has no scriptural support and won't happen.

 

[Stranger]

The Promises of God to ethnic Israel are fulfilled through Jesus. 2 Corinthians 1:20 As followers of Jesus, we Christians are the inheritors of the holy Land and Gods promised Blessings to His people. Ephesians 1:10-14, Romans 9:24-26, +
Denying these plain scriptures is a serious mistake. And thinking that those who call themselves Jews will receive those Promises, is plain crazy.
The OT verses I quoted in #70, are directly applied to Judah; the Jews.

What about Revelation 3:10? Does that verse mean you get taken to heaven? It means, as can be proved from many other verses, that the Lord will protect His own during His wrath. 1 Corinthians 10:13
The Israel God has said He would be faithful to, was never every Israelite person. Remember Korah? And the priests of Baal?
Now; will He redeem and forgive those people, who for nearly 2000 years have continued to reject Jesus, who are now mostly atheists, apostate, LGBT people and who rely on their own strength for protection?
He will not and many prophesies prove they will soon be Judged and punished; only a remnant will survive. Romans 9:27
Your dream of going to heaven, while the Jews face Tribulation and eventually come to Jesus, is an unbiblical and fanciful theory that has no scriptural support and won't happen.

I have no problem with the promises of God for Israel fulfilled in Jesus Christ. (2 Cor. 1:20) Which means they are yet to be fulfilled.

Christians do not inherit the Holy land. The land is not ours. It is Israel's. (Eph. 1:10-14) says nothing about Christians inheriting the land. (Rom. 9:24-26) is speaking to Israel. Again, your misapplication of Scripture in both instances is abysmal.

(Rev. 3:10) doesn't say God will protect them 'during' His wrath. It says He will 'keep them from the hour of temptation'. Big difference, as you recognized which is why you want to reword it. See the lengths you will go to prove your theology against what Scripture is saying?

Those Jews who God will receive, who will compose all of Israel, will be the believing Jews. They won't be those who did not believe.

And, again, since you didn't answer, why are you using Old Testament verses when you claimed I should not use Old Testament verses. Hypocritical.

Stranger

 

[Keraz]

I have no problem with the promises of God for Israel fulfilled in Jesus Christ. (2 Cor. 1:20) Which means they are yet to be fulfilled.

So the Promises of God will be fulfilled through Jesus. His followers are the recipients.

(Rom. 9:24-26) is speaking to Israel.

This comment from you is a classic example of your inability or unwillingness to look at the context. The next verse:
Romans 9:27 But of Israel, [the Jews] only a remnant will be saved.
But anyway Romans 9:23-26 is absolutely about Christians. Saying otherwise is total error.

(Rev. 3:10) doesn't say God will protect them 'during' His wrath

God's protection during His wrath, is proved by ay least 25 other scriptures. Again, the lengths you 'rapturists' will go shows, when you must use scriptures like this, which don't even mention heaven.

Those Jews who God will receive, who will compose all of Israel, will be the believing Jews. They won't be those who did not believe.

Once more; Romans 9:24 is plain: Christians are called from among Jews and Gentiles alike. One people, one Church.
Those who are not called or don't respond, of Jews and Gentiles are described in Romans 9:22....are due for destruction.

And, again, since you didn't answer, why are you using Old Testament verses when you claimed I should not use Old Testament verses. Hypocritical.

Getting somewhat hypocritical [hysterical] yourself, making assertions that are patently untrue about scripture and myself. I never said such a thing as; don't use OT scripture. That's just ridiculous.

 

[Stranger]

So the Promises of God will be fulfilled through Jesus. His followers are the recipients.

This comment from you is a classic example of your inability or unwillingness to look at the context. The next verse:
Romans 9:27 But of Israel, [the Jews] only a remnant will be saved.
But anyway Romans 9:23-26 is absolutely about Christians. Saying otherwise is total error.

God's protection during His wrath, is proved by ay least 25 other scriptures. Again, the lengths you 'rapturists' will go shows, when you must use scriptures like this, which don't even mention heaven.

Once more; Romans 9:24 is plain: Christians are called from among Jews and Gentiles alike. One people, one Church.
Those who are not called or don't respond, of Jews and Gentiles are described in Romans 9:22....are due for destruction.

Getting somewhat hypocritical [hysterical] yourself, making assertions that are patently untrue about scripture and myself. I never said such a thing as; don't use OT scripture. That's just ridiculous.

Like I said, I have no problem with the promises of God being fulfilled through Jesus Christ. He will fulfill them in the Church and in Israel. So?

The context of (Rom. 9:24-26) is Israel. The whole of (Rom. 9) is focused on Israel. (Rom. 9:3-5) "For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for muy berethren, muy kinsmen according to the flesh: Who are Israelites; to who pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises."

Even your quote of (Rom. 9:27) is against you. "Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:" Who can argue that it is not Israel that is being addressed.

The 'lengths you rapturists will go'? All I did was show you in (Rev. 3:10) that you changed the wording. You want to say 'God's protection during his wrath'. But (Rev. 3:10) says, "...I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth" By the way, did you catch that last sentence also. "...to try them that dwell upon the earth." That means the Church is no longer on the earth. Because if you're on the earth, you will go through the Tribulation. But God has said, "I will keep thee from the hour of temptation which shall come upon all the world...."

No, my statements are true of you and your statements. See post #(68). I had presented (Jer. 31:35-37) as proof of God's faithfulness to Israel. You in turn said, "Going back to the OT to support your case, means you deny the teachings of Jesus and the Apostle's." Yet you continued to use Old Testament Scripture.

Stranger

 

[Keraz]

. I had presented (Jer. 31:35-37) as proof of God's faithfulness to Israel. You in turn said, "Going back to the OT to support your case, means you deny the teachings of Jesus and the Apostle's."

What you deny or ignore, is the teaching of the New Testament, where Jesus and all the Apostles tell us that ethnic Jewish Israel is no longer God's people, they were never exclusively that anyway, and now Salvation is available to all who accept Jesus; Jew or Gentile.
So to think that God still has any special plan for the redemption of anyone who has rejected Jesus, Jew or Gentile, is where you go off the rails and contradict the New Testament.

The context of (Rom. 9:24-26) is Israel. The whole of (Rom. 9) is focused on Israel

This statement, after I proved that Romans 9:23-26, does refer to Christians, shows you to be unable to comprehend Bible truths.

 

[Stranger]

What you deny or ignore, is the teaching of the New Testament, where Jesus and all the Apostles tell us that ethnic Jewish Israel is no longer God's people, they were never exclusively that anyway, and now Salvation is available to all who accept Jesus; Jew or Gentile.
So to think that God still has any special plan for the redemption of anyone who has rejected Jesus, Jew or Gentile, is where you go off the rails and contradict the New Testament.

This statement, after I proved that Romans 9:23-26, does refer to Christians, shows you to be unable to comprehend Bible truths.

No, you present the lie that the Jewish people are no longer Israel and God's people. They are.

Yes, salvation is to all, but that doesn't mean that Israel is not the chosen people of God.

I don't contradict the New Testament. (Rom. 11:1) "I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin."

(Rom. 11:25) "For I would not, brethren, that y should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. "

Was Paul off the rails? Or...are you off the rails?

Stranger

 

[Keraz]

No, you present the lie that the Jewish people are no longer Israel and God's people. They are.

Yes, salvation is to all, but that doesn't mean that Israel is not the chosen people of God.

Hopelessly wrong and a contradiction of Jesus' Words; ...you did not choose Me, I chose you..... John 15:14-16 and 1 Peter 1:9-10
The Jewish people rejected Jesus, so He rejected them. Some have become Christian, so they are grafted back into Jesus, the Olive Tree, just as we are.
Paul fervently wanted his nationality to accept Jesus and he made every effort toward this. The result? Acts 13:44-47

The Jews, except for .05% have remained obdurate against the Gospel, but the Mission of Jesus and then the Apostles did not fail, as evidenced by the millions of Christians worldwide. The Lord's chosen ones.

 

[Stranger]

Hopelessly wrong and a contradiction of Jesus' Words; ...you did not choose Me, I chose you..... John 15:14-16 and 1 Peter 1:9-10
The Jewish people rejected Jesus, so He rejected them. Some have become Christian, so they are grafted back into Jesus, the Olive Tree, just as we are.
Paul fervently wanted his nationality to accept Jesus and he made every effort toward this. The result? Acts 13:44-47

The Jews, except for .05% have remained obdurate against the Gospel, but the Mission of Jesus and then the Apostles did not fail, as evidenced by the millions of Christians worldwide. The Lord's chosen ones.

Why did you ignore (Rom. 11:1) and (11:25) after your claim that I contradict the New Testament. It is you who are off the rails, not me.

Of course Paul preached to the Jews also. I never said he didn't. He was the apostle to the Gentiles but he always went to the Jew first.

Yes, the Jews as a nation have been blinded to the Gospel. I have never said differently. None of this makes the Church Israel. None of this means the believer in Christ doesn't go to Heaven as you claim.

Stranger

 

[Keraz]

None of this makes the Church Israel. None of this means the believer in Christ doesn't go to Heaven as you claim.

Can you please make an effort to understand that the Israel of God are His faithful Christian people from every tribe [of ethnic Israel] every race, nation and language. as Galatians 6:14-16, 1 Peter 2:9-10, Revelation 5:9-10, + plainly tell us?
Grafted into the One tree, that is Jesus.

Continuing , as you are, to accuse others of making the established Church become the Jewish State of Israel, just shows your extreme bias and inability to even attempt to look at another possibility than the 'rapture' for the end times.