Time periods of Daniel and Revelation

[Stranger]

Can you please make an effort to understand that the Israel of God are His faithful Christian people from every tribe [of ethnic Israel] every race, nation and language. as Galatians 6:14-16, 1 Peter 2:9-10, Revelation 5:9-10, + plainly tell us?
Grafted into the One tree, that is Jesus.

Continuing , as you are, to accuse others of making the established Church become the Jewish State of Israel, just shows your extreme bias and inability to even attempt to look at another possibility than the 'rapture' for the end times.

Again, why do you ignore (Rom. 11:1) and (11:25)?

The Israel of God is not the Church. Where do you get that idea? They are the Israel of God.

Could you please make an effort to answer my questions?

Stranger

 

[Keraz]

Could you please make an effort to answer my questions?

Paul answers you: Ephesians 2:11-18.... Ethnicity has no value whatsoever. Faith is what counts.
Romans 2:11 God has no favorites. Repeat 100 times!

 

[Stranger]

Paul answers you: Ephesians 2:11-18.... Ethnicity has no value whatsoever. Faith is what counts.
Romans 2:11 God has no favorites. Repeat 100 times!

Paul is the one who wrote (Rom. 11:1,25) which shows I do not contradict the apostles or the New Testatment. And the verses you just gave answers nothing.

(Eph. 2:11-18) speaks to the Jews and Gentiles being one body, the Church. So? I have never said otherwise.

(Rom. 2:11) speaks to God's judgement upon Jews and Gentiles and there is no respect of persons in that judgement. But, even in that judgement there is a difference. One is judged by the law and one is judged by the law written on their hearts.

Neither of your verses says God is finished with Israel. Neither of these verses says the Church is now Israel. Neither of these verses indicate the believer won't go to Heaven.

So, again, please answer (Rom. 11:1,25). And, I am waiting to know the measuring device you used to measure Heaven with. (Jer. 31:35-37)

Stranger

 

[Keraz]

So, again, please answer (Rom. 11:1,25). And, I am waiting to know the measuring device you used to measure Heaven with. (Jer. 31:35-37)

Your attempts to make your beliefs fit scripture and to denigrate me; fail miserably.
God will save Israel, but not the people who call themselves Jews, Revelation 2:9, only the Israelites of God, the Overcomers for God, the ones circumcised in their hearts, Romans 2:29 and the ones grafted into the Olive Tree of Jesus. Romans 11:17-24

 

[Stranger]

Your attempts to make your beliefs fit scripture and to denigrate me; fail miserably.
God will save Israel, but not the people who call themselves Jews, Revelation 2:9, only the Israelites of God, the Overcomers for God, the ones circumcised in their hearts, Romans 2:29 and the ones grafted into the Olive Tree of Jesus. Romans 11:17-24

Yes, God will save Israel. The Israel of God are the Jews who believe.

Who is Paul addressing in (Rom. 11:1) and (Rom. 11:25)? Who is Israel in these verses?

Stranger

 

[Keraz]

Yes, God will save Israel. The Israel of God are the Jews who believe.

Yes, they will be the remnant. The rest will die. Isaiah 22:14, Jeremiah 10:18, Ezekiel 21:1-7, Amos 2:4-5 & 9:10

Who is Paul addressing in (Rom. 11:1) and (Rom. 11:25)? Who is Israel in these verses?

They do refer to the Jews.
Paul tried his best to convert them, but they hated him and continued to reject Jesus.
But the All Israel that will be saved....verse 26....the Deliverer will remove the wickedness from Jacob. refers to all the 12 tribes of Israel, not just Judah. The 10 tribes of the House of Israel, are mainly the Christians of today. The true Israelites of God.

 

[Stranger]

Yes, they will be the remnant. The rest will die. Isaiah 22:14, Jeremiah 10:18, Ezekiel 21:1-7, Amos 2:4-5 & 9:10

They do refer to the Jews.
Paul tried his best to convert them, but they hated him and continued to reject Jesus.
But the All Israel that will be saved....verse 26....the Deliverer will remove the wickedness from Jacob. refers to all the 12 tribes of Israel, not just Judah. The 10 tribes of the House of Israel, are mainly the Christians of today. The true Israelites of God.

I have no problem with the rest dying. They are not Israel.

Exactly, it refers to the Jews. (Rom 11:1) "...an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin." (Rom. 11:25) "...that blindness in part is happened to Israel until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in."

There is nothing here to connect the 12 tribes of Israel with the Church or Christians. There is nothing here to connect the 10 tribes of Israel with Christians or the Church.

Where do you make this transition, as it is not made here?

Stranger

 

[Keraz]

There is nothing here to connect the 12 tribes of Israel with the Church or Christians. There is nothing here to connect the 10 tribes of Israel with Christians or the Church.

Paul makes this truth known in Acts 26:6-7
Jesus said to the Disciples: Take the Gospel to the lost House of Israel. They did that, so it follows that the Christians today are Israelites, by descent, by faith or by both.
Your determination to have a separate Israel and Church, is refuted by the Words of Jesus. John 17:20-23, John 10:16 and Ephesians 4:4-6, Romans 2:10-11,+

 

[Stranger]

Paul makes this truth known in Acts 26:6-7
Jesus said to the Disciples: Take the Gospel to the lost House of Israel. They did that, so it follows that the Christians today are Israelites, by descent, by faith or by both.
Your determination to have a separate Israel and Church, is refuted by the Words of Jesus. John 17:20-23, John 10:16 and Ephesians 4:4-6, Romans 2:10-11,+

Hold on pardner. You're blowing smoke again and not answering my question. You admit that (Rom 11) is about the Jews, the Israelites, as it clearly says. (11:1,25) This means I do not contradict the apostle's or New Testament as you claimed.

You want to connect this Israel in (Rom. 11) with Christians today. (Acts 26:6-7) is talking abut Jews and the 12 tribes. It is not talking about the Church. Paul makes no transition in (Rom. 11) of Israel to the Church. Instead he expressly says, "...blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in." (25)

So, again, where is this transition that you and others make to say Israel is now the Church?

Stranger

 

[Keraz]

The true Christian Ecclesia is Israel.

Those believers who love the Lord and keep His commandments, that is: every faithful Christian person are designated by God to be Israelites. Galatians 6:14-16 His Overcomers; the literal meaning of the Hebrew word - Israel.
The New Testament writings are clear: there is only one Israel, who are the only one Church, only one elect, be they Jew or Gentile by birth.

1/ Israel, the chosen people of God: Exodus 15:13, Deuteronomy 33:3, Ezra 3:11

Christians, chosen of God: Romans 9:25, Ephesians 5:1, Col. 3:12, 1 John 3:1, Rev. 7:9

2/ Israel, the children of God: Deut. 14:1, Isaiah 1:2-4, Isaiah 63:8, Hosea 11:1

Christians, the children of God: John 1:12, Romans 8:14-16, Galatians 4:5-7, 1 John 3:1

3/ Israel, the scattered sheep of God: Psalms 78:52, Isaiah 40:11, Jer. 23:1-4, Ezekiel 34:12

Christians, His sheep: among the nations: John 10:14-16, Hebrews 13:20, 1 Peter 2:25

4/ Israel, God’s household: Hebrews 3:5, 1 Chronicles 29:14-18

Christians are God’s household: Hebrews 3:6, Hebrews 10:20-21, I Timothy 3:15, 1 Cor.3:9

5/ Israel are the priests of God: Exodus 19:6, Deuteronomy 27:9

Christians are the priests of God: Isaiah 66:21, 1 Peter 2:5-9, Rev. 1:6, Revelation 5:10

6/ Israel is the bride of God: Isaiah 54:5-6, Jeremiah 2:2, Ezekiel 16:32, Hosea 1:2

Christians are the bride of Christ: Isaiah 62:4-5, 2 Corinthians 11:2, Ephesians 5:29-32

7/ Israel is the vine and the olive tree: Isaiah 5:7, Hosea 9:10, Hosea 14:6-7

Christians are the vine and the olive: Luke 20:16, Romans 11:24

8/ Israelites are the circumcised: Genesis 17:9-14, Judges 15:18

Christians are the ‘circumcised’: Romans 2:25-29, Philippians 3:3, Col. 2:11

9/ Israelites are the children of Abraham: 2 Chronicles 20:7, Psalms 105:5-6, Isaiah 41:8

Christians are the spiritual children of Abraham: Romans 4:13-18, Gal. 3:7& 29, John 4:23

10/ The Covenant is with Israel: Deuteronomy 4:31, 2 Kings 17:34-36, Psalms 105:7-10

The New Covenant is with Christians: 1 Corinthians 11:25, Hebrews 8:6-10, Ezekiel 34:25


The above 10 proofs totally negate any argument that the Church and Israel are 2 separate entities. That premise is held and promoted by the pre-trib rapture exponents, who must have 2 groups; one removed to heaven, [themselves] and the Jews, [Israel] who remain on earth to face the Great Tribulation.

The truth is proven by how it is all the faithful Christian believers of every tribe, race, nation and language: Revelation 5:9-10 & 7:9, who gather in the holy Land soon after the Sixth Seal judgement/punishment of the nations. Habakkuk 3:12 They will be assigned to an appropriate Israelite tribe, according to each family’s characteristics. Proved by Isaiah 66:21 Then the 144,000 will be selected, 12,000 from each tribal group, to go out and proclaim the coming Kingdom of Jesus. Revelation 14:1-7, Isaiah 66:19

This new nation in the Middle East, will be called Beulah; Isaiah 62:1-5 They will live in peace and prosperity and when a large army comes down from the North, God will destroy it. Ezekiel 38-39, Joel 2:20

Sometime later, the President of the One World Government will come to Beulah and convince ‘many’ of them to sign a seven year treaty of peace. Daniel 11:27, Isaiah 28:14-15 This marks the commencement of the final seven years of this age and is the 70th year of Daniel 9:24, then at the mid-point, the O.W.G. dictator will invade and conquer Beulah. Zech. 14:1-2, Daniel 11:30-32, which triggers the Great Tribulation of the seven Trumpet and seven Bowl punishments. Rev. 12:7-13 & 13:5-9
But those Israelites who ‘faithful to their God’, will be taken to a place of safety, as described in Revelation 12:14. Then at the Return of Jesus, those faithful ones, the righteous ‘woman’ of Christian Israel will experience a ‘rapture’ as they are gathered by the Lord’s angels. Matthew 24:31 They will join the resurrected saints and will enjoy the great blessings of the Millennium. Isaiah 65:17-25 [79 scriptures]

 

[Enoch111]

The true Christian Ecclesia is Israel.

That excludes an awful lot of Gentiles. Of course, you failed to read, study and believe Revelation 7, which shows a microcosm of Israel alongside the Church/Ecclesia (Jews and Gentiles in one Body).

 

[Keraz]

That excludes an awful lot of Gentiles. Of course, you failed to read, study and believe Revelation 7, which shows a microcosm of Israel alongside the Church/Ecclesia (Jews and Gentiles in one Body).

As there is no such thing as Jew or Gentile in God's eyes, people are either His faithful, born again Christians or godless heathens, I understand Revelation 7 quite well. That chapter tells us how all the Christian peoples, all those who stood firm in their faith during the just happened Sixth Seal worldwide disaster, will have the 144,000 missionaries selected from among them, as Revelation 14:1-7 says. Isaiah 66:18b-21 confirms this.

So the people who are excluded, are all who missed their opportunity to accept the Salvation freely offered to all, Jew and Gentile. They will become members of the One World Govt, soon to be ruled by a powerful dictator, who will make his subjects take a mark in order to buy and sell, he will demand they worship him. Revelation 13:11-17

 

[Stranger]

Keraz

Another restart. Once you cannot answer my questions, you resort to your restart mode. Much easier to present a list and your ready made view then to prove your view by debate.

Stranger

 

[Keraz]

Keraz

Another restart. Once you cannot answer my questions, you resort to your restart mode. Much easier to present a list and your ready made view then to prove your view by debate.

Stranger

You love to post as though anyone who disagrees with your beliefs has to prove their case.
As there is no scripture that says God will take His Church to heaven, it is on you to prove the 'rapture'.

As it is now; I present my views, as you say, and you avoid debate.

 

[Stranger]

You love to post as though anyone who disagrees with your beliefs has to prove their case.
As there is no scripture that says God will take His Church to heaven, it is on you to prove the 'rapture'.

As it is now; I present my views, as you say, and you avoid debate.

Your laundry list is about the Church and Israel being the same. That is what we were talking about . In my post #(89) I said you admitted that (Rom. 11) concerns the Jews. This is proof that I did not contradict the apostle's or the New Testament as you claimed I did.

But at the same time, you want to connect this Israel of (Rom. 11) to the Church. Yet (Rom. 11:25) says, "...that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in."

Thus back to my question which you refuse to answer. Where do you see the transition here from Israel being made into the Church? It is Jews, Israel all the way.

Then, staying with the context, go back to (Rom. 10) and you find that too is about Jewish, Israel. Not the Church. (Rom. 10:1-2) "Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved. For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge."

Then, continuing with the context, go back to (Rom. 9) and you find that too is about Jewish, Israel. Not the Church. (Rom. 9:3-4) "For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh: Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God and the promises; Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ, came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen."

So, (Rom. 9,10,11) are speaking to Israel as distinct from the Church. So, again, where do you come up with the transition which makes Israel here the Church?

Stranger

 

[farouk]

So, (Rom. 9,10,11) are speaking to Israel as distinct from the Church.

Well, exactly!

 

[Keraz]

So, (Rom. 9,10,11) are speaking to Israel as distinct from the Church. So, again, where do you come up with the transition which makes Israel here the Church?

Sure and Paul greatly desired that the Jews come to Salvation thru Jesus. But they didn't and never have, excepting for a tiny number of Messianic Jews. They are the remnant Paul mentions in Romans 9:27.
Please try to understand word meanings; Israel is not just the Jews, just like a South American is not a USA American.
Israel was the name given to Jacob as he fought and overcame for God.
It applies to us Christians, as we Overcome the wiles of Satan and are the Victorious ones as shown in each of the Seven Church's of Revelation.
Calling my post that proves Christians are the Israel of God, a 'shopping list', just shows your extreme bias and misguided determination to have the fake Israel on earth while you sit like a lord in heaven. About as likely as Santa coming down your chimney!

 

[Stranger]

Sure and Paul greatly desired that the Jews come to Salvation thru Jesus. But they didn't and never have, excepting for a tiny number of Messianic Jews. They are the remnant Paul mentions in Romans 9:27.
Please try to understand word meanings; Israel is not just the Jews, just like a South American is not a USA American.
Israel was the name given to Jacob as he fought and overcame for God.
It applies to us Christians, as we Overcome the wiles of Satan and are the Victorious ones as shown in each of the Seven Church's of Revelation.
Calling my post that proves Christians are the Israel of God, a 'shopping list', just shows your extreme bias and misguided determination to have the fake Israel on earth while you sit like a lord in heaven. About as likely as Santa coming down your chimney!

You say on one hand that Paul is speaking to the Jews, the physical descendants of Jacob. Then you turn around and say He is not speaking to just Jews. Again, where is the transition statement? There is nothing in (Rom. 9-11) that indicates Israel and the Church are the same.

Just because you want it to be so... just because you say so, doesn't make it so. Where is the transition statement?

Your laundry list doesn't prove that Israel and the Church are the same. It's a long list. Makes you look smart. But it is all a lie. But first, you need to prove that (Rom. 9-11) shows the Church and Israel are the same. If you can't do that, then that is how credible your list is.

Stranger

 

[Keraz]

You say on one hand that Paul is speaking to the Jews, the physical descendants of Jacob. Then you turn around and say He is not speaking to just Jews. Again, where is the transition statement? There is nothing in (Rom. 9-11) that indicates Israel and the Church are the same.

Just because you want it to be so... just because you say so, doesn't make it so. Where is the transition statement?

Your laundry list doesn't prove that Israel and the Church are the same. It's a long list. Makes you look smart. But it is all a lie. But first, you need to prove that (Rom. 9-11) shows the Church and Israel are the same. If you can't do that, then that is how credible your list is.

Stranger

The actual Jews who rejected and killed Jesus in the first century, were all killed by the Romans, by famine, by their own civil wars and by being taken into slavery. Just as Jesus prophesied in His parable of the Landowner. Matthew 21:41
Those people who call themselves Jews today are a mixed race lot, who have usurped the name of Israel and are in fact, members of the synagogue of Satan. Revelation 2:9

Stranger says this list is all lies:
1/ Israel, the chosen people of God: Exodus 15:13, Deuteronomy 33:3, Ezra 3:11
Christians, chosen of God: Romans 9:25, Ephesians 5:1, Col. 3:12, 1 John 3:1, Rev. 7:9

2/ Israel, the children of God: Deut. 14:1, Isaiah 1:2-4, Isaiah 63:8, Hosea 11:1
Christians, the children of God: John 1:12, Romans 8:14-16, Galatians 4:5-7, 1 John 3:1

3/ Israel, the scattered sheep of God: Psalms 78:52, Isaiah 40:11, Jer. 23:1-4, Ezekiel 34:12
Christians, His sheep: among the nations: John 10:14-16, Hebrews 13:20, 1 Peter 2:25

4/ Israel, God’s household: Hebrews 3:5, 1 Chronicles 29:14-18
Christians are God’s household: Hebrews 3:6, Hebrews 10:20-21, I Timothy 3:15, 1 Cor.3:9

5/ Israel are the priests of God: Exodus 19:6, Deuteronomy 27:9
Christians are the priests of God: Isaiah 66:21, 1 Peter 2:5-9, Rev. 1:6, Revelation 5:10

6/ Israel is the bride of God: Isaiah 54:5-6, Jeremiah 2:2, Ezekiel 16:32, Hosea 1:2
Christians are the bride of Christ: Isaiah 62:4-5, 2 Corinthians 11:2, Ephesians 5:29-32

7/ Israel is the vine and the olive tree: Isaiah 5:7, Hosea 9:10, Hosea 14:6-7
Christians are the vine and the olive: Luke 20:16, Romans 11:24

8/ Israelites are the circumcised: Genesis 17:9-14, Judges 15:18
Christians are the ‘circumcised’: Romans 2:25-29, Philippians 3:3, Col. 2:11

9/ Israelites are the children of Abraham: 2 Chronicles 20:7, Psalms 105:5-6, Isaiah 41:8
Christians are the spiritual children of Abraham: Romans 4:13-18, Gal. 3:7& 29, John 4:23

10/ The Covenant is with Israel: Deuteronomy 4:31, 2 Kings 17:34-36, Psalms 105:7-10
The New Covenant is with Christians: 1 Corinthians 11:25, Hebrews 8:6-10, Ezekiel 34:25

We Christians are the Israelites of God and it is our privilege to be His people on earth for the end times.

 

[Stranger]

Keraz

What is a lie is your attempt to make Israel and the Church the same body. You resort to your long lists in hopes that everyone is awed and thinks how smart you must be. But once the debate begins, you fold like a pocket knife. Once the questions begin you have to restart with another list in hopes that no one sees your inability to answer them.

Again, read my post #(98). Show me where the transition is in (Rom. 9-11) that makes Israel the Church.

Stranger