Timing of Eze 37 and 38 pre Trib?

[dad]

What does that mean...what are you saying here? You are not being clear.

You asked a question in the original post. I answered it.

Fuzzy wuzzy was a bear, fuzzy wuzzy didn't care. For this thread all fuzzy wuzzies should believe prophesy is future rather than some other tense. Otherwise posters are not qualified here to answer anything.

 

[dad]

Jerusalem is translated, but more importantly, is spiritually: Christ.

It is as I have told you.

Sodom and Gomorrah or Jerusalem is what it is actually. The translated bits are in your head.

 

[dad]

Whether you apply the prophecy in Luke to the Roman destruction of Jerusalem or the end of the age, I think is should be understood that "all be fullfilled" refers to what was written of that time, not that all prophecy will be fulfulled by that point in time.

Much love!

That is where I lose you. The ultimate fulfillment of all prophesy are in the very end. Jesus was speaking to them and to us!

 

[dad]

Actually I see this as one prophecy in Ezekiel 38:1 to 39:16, the Gog/Magog war, and a separate prophecy from 39:17 to the end of the chapter being Armaggedon.

I see Luke's prophecy of Jerusalem surrounded by armies being the Romans, and in Matthew the AOD being in the end of the age.

Much love!

Well one would think that when Gog attacks Israel, they will be surrounded. Also, later, when the nations meet in Armageddon, Israel is also surrounded. Also at the end of the 1000 years, the saints are also surrounded. So why limit any surrounding to 70 AD?

 

[ScottA]

Fuzzy wuzzy was a bear, fuzzy wuzzy didn't care. For this thread all fuzzy wuzzies should believe prophesy is future rather than some other tense. Otherwise posters are not qualified here to answer anything.

Now you make yourself clear.

The prophecies were made thousands of years ago -- even 2000 years ago would have been "future."

But since you don't care, by the same measure you shall receive.

 

[ScottA]

Sodom and Gomorrah or Jerusalem is what it is actually. The translated bits are in your head.

Indeed they are. My Head...is Christ.

 

[ScottA]

Actually I see this as one prophecy in Ezekiel 38:1 to 39:16, the Gog/Magog war, and a separate prophecy from 39:17 to the end of the chapter being Armaggedon.

I see Luke's prophecy of Jerusalem surrounded by armies being the Romans, and in Matthew the AOD being in the end of the age.

Much love!

"Jerusalem" means: Christ. He was referring to that time when "Christ" would be trampled by the gentiles.

When was that again? When did the times of the gentiles begin? (rhetorical).

 

[dad]

Now you make yourself clear.

The prophecies were made thousands of years ago -- even 2000 years ago would have been "future."

But since you don't care, by the same measure you shall receive.

Nothing makes the latter days anything else. Sorry you don't make the bar for this thread, not believing that Revelation and prophesies of the end time are not history. Oh well.

 

[dad]

"Jerusalem" means: Christ. He was referring to that time when "Christ" would be trampled by the gentiles.

When was that again? When did the times of the gentiles begin? (rhetorical).

Jerusalem means Jesus? I see, so what does New York mean, chocolate pudding?

 

[Mantis]

@Mantis Always good to keep Christ in mind, even in the midst of the many and sometimes complex prophecies.

Yes good point. Keep your mind on Jesus. The prophecies will unfold and we will see them happen.

 

[ScottA]

Nothing makes the latter days anything else. Sorry you don't make the bar for this thread, not believing that Revelation and prophesies of the end time are not history. Oh well.

There you go again-- I never said that!

Your loss.

 

[ScottA]

Jerusalem means Jesus? I see, so what does New York mean, chocolate pudding?

Quotable character reference.

It means you are wandering in the desert.

Why do you ask?


PS...but what you do not realize, is that I have given you a great gift of prophecy.

 

[Davy]

Don't be deceived brethren, the Ezekiel 38 and Ezekiel 39 Chapters are about the future battle of Armageddon per God's gathering of the nations to do battle on the FINAL DAY of this world.

Here is one of the Scriptures of that future prophecy...

Zeph 3:8-9
8 Therefore wait ye upon Me, saith the LORD, until the day that I rise up to the prey: for My determination is to gather the nations, that I may assemble the kingdoms, to pour upon them Mine indignation, even all My fierce anger: for all the earth shall be devoured with the fire of My jealousy.

9 For then will I turn to the people a pure language, that they may all call upon the name of the LORD, to serve Him with one consent.
KJV

If you recall about God's consuming fire on the last day of this world, per 2 Peter 3:10-13, and Hebrews 12:25-29, then that's what the Ezekiel 38 and 39 Chapters are about, the gathering of the nations of His enemies against His elect on the last day of this world.

This is why starting at Ezekiel 40, we are being shown Christ's future Millennial sanctuary on earth.


Here is a New Testament reference to that future nation gathering event on the 7th Vial...

Rev 16:14-17
14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
16 And He gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.
17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, "It is done."
KJV


The Ezekiel 38 Chapter is specifically giving us the nations of Christ's enemies on earth that will be gathered to come upon BOTH Israels on the last day of this world. (If you didn't know there are 2 Israels today per God's Word, then it's probably time for you to study your Old Testament history. 1 Kings 11 forward might be a good starting place.)

 

[Truth7t7]

Using the description of the weapons as proof of a historical fulfillment of the G/M attack, is invalid and fails.
Because the ancient Prophets were unaware of modern weaponry, they had to describe this attack in the only way the knew. We can easily substitute swords for rifles, shields for armor, horses for tanks, etc.

T7t7, please tell us which ancient war your think was fulfilled by this prophecy.

We disagree, a sword is a sword not a rifle as you suggest

Ezekiel 39:9 clearly describes "Wooden" weapons of warfare, shields, bows, arrows, spears, that were burned in the fire long ago, 100% a "Historical" war not future as many suggest

Ezekiel 39:9KJV
9 And they that dwell in the cities of Israel shall go forth, and shall set on fire and burn the weapons, both the shields and the bucklers, the bows and the arrows, and the handstaves, and the spears, and they shall burn them with fire seven years:

 

[Truth7t7]

Jerusalem is translated, but more importantly, is spiritually: Christ.

It is as I have told you.

Jerusalem is a literal city, that will be surrounded by literal armies in the future, this Jerusalem isn't a "Symbolic" representation of Jesus Christ, I Strongly Disagree

Scott, do you believe in a "Future" literal coming of Jesus Christ in the heavens as seen below?

Revelation 1:7KJV
7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

 

[ScottA]

Jerusalem is a literal city, that will be surrounded by literal armies in the future, this Jerusalem isn't a "Symbolic" representation of Jesus Christ, I Strongly Disagree

Scott, do you believe in a "Future" literal coming of Jesus Christ in the heavens as seen below?

Revelation 1:7KJV
7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

We have been through this...and you continue to contradict yourself just to voice it..

Did you not get the "My words are spirit" memo? Apparently not.

So...if you are going to continue to make a case against the spiritual meaning of what is written--all I can tell you is, No. No, "The kingdom of God does not come with observation." On the contrary, that "every eye shall see" comment is not about anything that occurs in this world.

 

[Truth7t7]

I see this as referring to Rome destroying Jerusalem.

Luke 21:10-12 KJV
10) Then said he unto them, Nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom:
11) And great earthquakes shall be in divers places, and famines, and pestilences; and fearful sights and great signs shall there be from heaven.
12) But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake.

Luke 21:20-24 KJV
20) And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
21) Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
22) For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
23) But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.
24) And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

The end of this conquest is the scattering of Israel during the times of the gentiles.

Much love!

I see it as future "Muslim" nations armies surrounding Jerusalem, and the conflict will be over a future conflict with Jews over the temple mount, a "Muslim" holy site

 

[Truth7t7]

We have been through this...and you continue to contradict yourself just to voice it..

Did you not get the "My words are spirit" memo? Apparently not.

So...if you are going to continue to make a case against the spiritual meaning of what is written--all I can tell you is, No. No, "The kingdom of God does not come with observation." On the contrary, that "every eye shall see" comment is not about anything that occurs in this world.

Scott, do you believe in a "Future" literal coming of Jesus Christ in the heavens as seen below?

Revelation 1:7KJV
7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

 

[Truth7t7]

Ezekiel 38:8
After many days thou shalt be visited: in the latter years thou shalt come into the land that is brought back from the sword, and is gathered out of many people, against the mountains of Israel, which have been always waste: but it is brought forth out of the nations, and they shall dwell safely all of them.

Ezekiel 38:20
So that the fishes of the sea, and the fowls of the heaven, and the beasts of the field, and all creeping things that creep upon the earth, and all the men that are upon the face of the earth, shall shake at my presence, and the mountains shall be thrown down, and the steep places shall fall, and every wall shall fall to the ground.

Ezekiel 38:22
And I will plead against him with pestilence and with blood; and I will rain upon him, and upon his bands, and upon the many people that are with him, an overflowing rain, and great hailstones, fire, and brimstone.

I thought the OP made it clear that this was for people that believe in prophesy, and don't try to put it in the past.

Pretty hard to put "future" armies of Persians, Egyptians, Libyans on horses, wearing body armour, using swords, shields, and bucklers

Ezekiel 38:1-5KJV
1 And the word of the Lord came unto me, saying,
2 Son of man, set thy face against Gog, the land of Magog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal, and prophesy against him,
3 And say, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I am against thee, O Gog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal:
4 And I will turn thee back, and put hooks into thy jaws, and I will bring thee forth, and all thine army, horses and horsemen, all of them clothed with all sorts of armour, even a great company with bucklers and shields, all of them handling swords:
5 Persia, Ethiopia, and Libya with them; all of them with shield and helmet:

 

[Truth7t7]

We have been through this...and you continue to contradict yourself just to voice it..

Did you not get the "My words are spirit" memo? Apparently not.

So...if you are going to continue to make a case against the spiritual meaning of what is written--all I can tell you is, No. No, "The kingdom of God does not come with observation." On the contrary, that "every eye shall see" comment is not about anything that occurs in this world.

Thanks for the response, as it stands I see your belief in the camp of "Full Preterism"

You dont believe in a future bodily resurrection of the believer, or a literal return of Jesus Christ in the heavens

"Full Preterism"

Jesus Is The Lord