Timing of the abomination of desolation
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ewq1938
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Mar 13:25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
That is the opposite of silence in heaven.
ewq1938
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ewq1938
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I'm right and you are wrong.
The removed branches are false israel.
The grafted branches and natural branches are true Israel.
The Pharisees were false israel.
The disciples (not Judas) were true Israel.
ewq1938
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No longer true Israel but they will still call themselves Israel and others will as well. That's why I am right. Two Israels, one true and one false. You should know this from Revelation 2.9 and 3.9. Those were big ones in the whole SC world.
They can call themselves anything they want , doesn't make it true .
Two trees all belong to one or the other period.
Davy
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Both ideas are wrong. There are 2 Israels, but one of them is not the "synagogue of Satan" (Rev.2:9 and 3:9).
Because the "synagogue of Satan" Lord Jesus was pointing to was not about the 'seed' of Israel, not even about the Jews which rejected Jesus that were... of the 'seed' of Israel. The "synagogue of Satan" has actually TRICKED many pastors into believing Lord Jesus was pointing to ALL unbelieving Jews as that "synagogue of Satan", which is simply NOT SO.
The majority of brethren are either not aware, or deny the existence through history, of any social groups involving the occult which literally worship Lucifer. Students in God's Word in-depth are well familiar early on in Bible history about those idol worshipers, and even how they coerced deceived Israel into falling into idol worship with them many times. Someone who doesn't know this positively reveals they have NOT... studied the Old Testament histories. I have mentioned this matter several times in my posts, but most just turn a blind eye to it.
Why did God tell the children of Israel to literally... wipe out 7 nations in the land of Canaan, and to not leave alive anything that breathed? (Deuteronomy 20).
It was because of their following Lucifer and doing idol worship (and because of the giant hybrids living there which God did not create). And per Judges 2 & 3, God warned the children of Israel to not take of their wives, nor of their idols, but Israel disobeyed God, so He said He would leave those leftovers of those Canaanite nations to dwell among Israel, to test Israel with, to see if they would follow Him, or not. A group of the Canaanites were the Kenites, and they specifically became the scribes of Israel (1 Chronicles 2:55). So the Kenites were one group of Canaanites which crept in among the children of Israel, and eventually became Israel's scribes in charge of making copies of God's written Word. Very huge job of responsibility for foreigners to Israel, don't ya think? They also called themselves Jews.
Others of those Canaanites became bondservants in Israel (1 Kings 9:19-22; Joshua 9). And eventually, some of them even worked their way into the Levitical priesthood (Ezra 2; Ezra 8; Ezra 9).
Thus only 'some' of the blind Pharisees represented crept in unaware foreigners of the Canaanites. Other Pharisees, like Apostle Paul himself before Jesus converted him, Gamaliel who was a Hebrew teacher to Paul, Nicodemus who brought spices for Christ's burial, etc., those were of the 'seed' of Israel. So there were both TRUE SEED OF ISRAEL, and "tares" hiding as FALSE JEWS among the religious sects of Israel, even as it still is to this day among God's people of both the orthodox Jews, and... Christ's Church.
The "synagogue of Satan" Jesus pointed directly to involves FALSE JEWS, those who only SAY they are Jews, but are not. One should have immediately recognized with that, that He was not pointing to the deceived seed of Israel among the Jews, but to the crept in unawares of the Canaanites into Israel who especially crept in among the tribe of Judah and began to call themselves Jews also.
So who are the 2 Israels today? The "house of Judah" and the "house of Israel". Ezekiel 37 shows them both put back together in final. Anyone having done their homework in the Old Testament prophets should know about that.
And just because many of the 'seed' of the "house of Judah" (tribes of Judah, Benjamin, and Levi), still reject Lord Jesus Christ today as Messiah, that does not mean they will remain that way, because Apostle Paul well showed in Romans 11 that God has blinded those spiritually for this world away from The Gospel, so The Gospel would go to the Gentiles also. When Jesus appears, those Jews of the seed of Israel will wake up and be converted, God then removing their spiritual blindness. So like Apostle Paul said, those are still beloved for the father's sake, and still part of God's election.
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Randy Kluth
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As you likely know, Replacement Theology is being questioned in an age in which Israel has been "reborn" as a nation. Denying a nation exists isn't living in the real world. But if you want to state the age-old belief that "the Church is Israel," that's okay with me. Christians began to believe that when it appeared the Jews would never again restore their country and their faith.
It would be wise, I think, to say, *I believe* that "the Church is Israel," instead of just state it as fact, as if it is not controversial. There are good Christians on both sides of this matter.
I have to state my view that relates to the futurist idea that Israel will be restored as a Christian nation in the Millennium. I have to state it because a good number of my views on biblical prophecy are predicated on this assumption. You certainly don't have to agree with me. It's just nice to be friendly about it.
Randy Kluth
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I only wish to comment on your explanation as to why Israel was commanded to destroy the 7 Canaanite nations. I may not put it quite like you did, but I think it makes a very good point.
A lot of non-Christians today just cannot understand a God of the Bible who commanded genocide. But when we recognize that there is a limit to God's grace, and a point at which God will not tolerate human failures any more, then we can understand divine genocide.
Satan worship may have been what the Canaanite nations were doing indirectly. Following anti-moral idol-gods was what following Satan is. It is constructing a man-oriented moral system, defined by man, and not by God. It is competing with God for the rights to determine "what is right." And the result is a decadent society, full of violence and injustice, oppression, and evil.
When entire nations get infected with this licentiousness, with this libertinism, then God finds it necessary to remove the whole batch and start again. Thanks for putting this in interesting terms, to understand that entire people groups need not be included in this judgment if they have not reached that threshold as a whole yet.
Spiritual Israelite
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They are not temple buildings. The disciples were marveling at the buildings that you could go into that had doors, walls and a ceiling.
Mark 13:1 As Jesus was leaving the temple, one of his disciples said to him, “Look, Teacher! What massive stones! What magnificent buildings!”
Luke 21:5 Some of his disciples were remarking about how the temple was adorned with beautiful stones and with gifts dedicated to God.
It wasn't the wailing wall or any retaining walls that were "adorned with beautiful stones and with gifts dedicated to God". You are really reaching here.
Spiritual Israelite
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Please tell me how you interpret the following passage:
Romans 9:6 It is not as though God’s word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel. 7 Nor because they are his descendants are they all Abraham’s children. On the contrary, “It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned.” 8 In other words, it is not the children by physical descent who are God’s children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham’s offspring.
I have color coded key phrases in this passage to show the two different Israels described here. One Israel, highlighted in blue above, is made up only of those who are naturally "descended from Israel," and are Abraham's natural descendants. The other Israel, highlighted in red above, is not dependent on what nation someone descended from, but rather has to do with someone being a spiritual child of Abraham which makes them a child of God and of the promise and part of the spiritual Israel of God.
ewq1938
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They marveled at the entire thing.
So? That verse is only about the temple but they marveled at everything and not all the buildings were decorated like the temple was.
Davy
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If I were able to put it in even stronger... terms here, I would, because the problem goes much, much deeper than simple idol worship and a man-oriented moral system. I suggest you check out a work called The Golden Bough by Sir James George Frazer. Scientists like to think the examples of weird religious and sexual practices it documents was a natural path of evolution of our primitive ancestors. No, it was an example of a certain people put on this earth to work for the devil himself against God and His people.
I never was a fast reader in my younger years, because I tend to allow what I read to soak in a bit. So when I read about Moses coming down from Mt. Sinai with the stone tablets, and he finds the children of Israel had made a calf idol in false worship. I began to wonder just how... they knew to do that, and who would have led them to make that idol and do that? Had Aaron learned that from the Egyptians? Maybe. But then, centuries later, in 1 Kings, we find that Jeroboam, king of the ten tribe "kingdom of Israel" after God split old Israel into two nations, that Jeroboam also made two gold calf idols in false worship for the northern ten tribes to worship. Again, where did he get that idea from?
They learned it from the crept in unawares, even back at that time while in Egypt.
Jude 4-7
4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.
That is what Lord Jesus was talking about with the "tares" in the parable of the tares of the field in Matthew 13. There are "certain men crept in unawares" put here on earth that are "ordained" to work for the devil. Those are not simply deceived men, they 'know' they are the devil's own elect here on earth. God warned us early on in Genesis 3 that He put "emnity" between the Seed of the Woman (Christ's family) and the seed of the devil. In Matthew 13 Lord Jesus said the devil is who sowed the "tares". So those evil "workers of iniquity" serve the devil, and have been ordained to that for this present world. The gullible often refuse to admit those kind of people exist on this earth.
5 I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.
Would that include those who stirred up Aaron to make a gold calf idol when Moses was upon Mt. Sinai? Most likely. God caused the children of Israel to wander in the desert wilderness for 40 years in order to purge that unbelieving generation out, so was that not another act of genocide the devils like to claim that God did?
6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, He hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.
KJV
That idea about the angels is linked to the idea of going after strange flesh. I am not scared to proclaim God's Word in Genesis 6 as written, which reveals those angels saw the daughters of man, and took wives of them. And their offspring was a hybrid giant race, which God did not create, and that was one of the main purposes for God bringing the flood of Noah's day, and also after the flood when a second irruption of the giants happened, and God told Israel to literally wipe out those 7 nations where they existed among the Canaanites.
The following verse the translators did not properly bring the proper name Rephaim into English with that word "deceased". The Rephaim was one of the names for the giants (2 Samuel 5:18-22).
Isa 26:14
14 They are dead, they shall not live; they are deceased, they shall not rise: therefore hast Thou visited and destroyed them, and made all their memory to perish.
KJV
Notice something unique about that above verse? We should, because it says those particular "deceased" (Rephaim), "they shall not rise:".
That is pointing to the resurrection. The Rephaim, i.e., the hybrid giants, shall not resurrect. Instead they are destroyed.
What that does is PROVE beyond a doubt that the offspring of giants by the "sons of God" mating with flesh woman per Genesis 6 literally... produced a hybrid race of giants upon this earth. The reason we know this Isaiah 26:14 proves that is because ALL men born of woman that have died will be resurrected (John 5:28-29; Acts 24:15; 1 Corinthians 15:22; Revelation 20:4-6, and 13). But these Rephaim, won't be resurrected. They shall not rise.
That hybrid giant race upon the earth in those days is where the old mythologies and legends of the Titans and Greek gods came from. All of the most ancient civilizations contain a mythological history about it, even among the North American Indian culture. That event sought to knock God's Plan out of balance, with trying to taint the Seed of the Woman that Christ would be born of. So the reason for God commanding Israel to literally wipe out those seven nations in the land of Canaan was because of a much, much darker... working by the devil, than simply men exhibiting bad morals.
Spiritual Israelite
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No, they specifically were marveling at the temple buildings as the text indicates. Stop making things up.
Wrong. It's clear to me that you will go to any length to deny even obvious things like this. Are you aware that you can acknowledge that the temple buildings were destroyed just as Jesus said they would be without having to become a preterist? It's like you will deny the truth no matter what because you are determined not to be a preterist. Jesus talked both about the timing of the destruction of the temple buildings, which He was asked about, AND His future coming and the end of the age, which He also was asked about. There's no reason to think the entire Olivet Discourse was fulfilled in the past nor is there any reason to think it all will be fulfilled in the future.
Did this one come to pass?
Matthew 24:5
For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
Ralph Woodrow, Great Prophecies of the Bible
According to Josephus, the noted Jewish historian, twelve years after our Saviour’s death, a certain impostor named Theudas persuaded a great multitude to follow him to the river Jordan which he claimed would divide for their passage. At the time of Felix (who is mentioned in the book of Acts), the country of the Jews was filled with impostors who Felix had put to death EVERY DAY — a statement which indicates that there were “many” of such in those days!
An Egyptian who “pretended to be a prophet” gathered 30,000 men, claiming that he would show “how, at his command, the walls of Jerusalem would fall down.”
Another deceiver was Simon, a sorcerer, who led people to believe he was the great power of God (See Acts 8). According to Irenaeus, Simon claimed to be the Son of God and creator of angels. Jerome says that he claimed to be the Word of God, the Almighty. Justin relates that he went to Rome and was acclaimed as a god by his magical powers.
Origen mentions a certain wonder-worker, Dositheus, who claimed he was the Christ foretold by Moses. Another deceiver in those days was Barchochebas who, according to Jerome, claimed to vomit flames. Bar-jesus is mentioned in Acts 13:6 as a sorcerer and false prophet. These are examples of the deceivers of whom history says there were “a great number”, and of whom Jesus had prophesied that there would be “many.”
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Can't we just imagine the disciples marveling at the retaining wall. "Why, this is the retaining wall that's going to prove those Scofield futurists to be correct in the 19th century"!!
Guffaws for all.
Incidentally, we haven't yet heard how to enter a retaining wall, because it is really and truly a building.
Surely Jesus and/or one or more of His disciples must have entered that retaining wall, because it was and is really and truly a building.
Surely someone has entered it over the past 17 centuries.
Awaiting futurist proof Scripture.
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