Tithe...NOT a christian doctrine
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IMO this would be the mark discerning between a Christ follower and a believer, because we also have "You must each decide in your heart how much to give. And don't give reluctantly or in response to pressure. "For God loves a person who gives cheerfully." (2 Cor 9:7).
I think it was in another thread where the difference between a Christ follower and a believer was discussed and there was different Greek words used in the scripture.
As believers we are all different from the world, by taking on His servant attitude and crucifying our flesh in order to be all that God wants us to be---which is like His Son.
(Please don't be antagonistic. When I say, 'me', it is only testimonial, to which other believers should be saying, "Amen!")
This is like a tugger-war... when one side gets tired; the other side picks up the slack...
If the debate goes on, please show from the New Testament how tithing is still binding. Just because it is written in the OT does not make it binding... the law was abolished. If such a custom is still binding because it pre-dated the law, then where is this requirement found in the NT? If tithing is still binding, then are the SDA's also right about the Sabbath? Do we also need to circumcise, because Abraham circumcised his family before the law? (Genesis 17:23) Don’t just give opinions. Opinions are worthless if they are not backed up by God’s word.
If the debate goes on, please show from the New Testament how tithing is still binding. Just because it is written in the OT does not make it binding... the law was abolished. If such a custom is still binding because it pre-dated the law, then where is this requirement found in the NT? If tithing is still binding, then are the SDA's also right about the Sabbath? Do we also need to circumcise, because Abraham circumcised his family before the law? (Genesis 17:23) Don’t just give opinions. Opinions are worthless if they are not backed up by God’s word.
goodshepard55
New Member
Lively...He asked for answers, he did not say God's words were not binding...why is it so hard for people to use the scriptures when someone ask for understanding of something? Sometimes people are confused and have not had revelation of some scriptures, instead of being rude and refusing to help a fellow man/lady find the scriptures to help...people goes as so far to say...I have studied and not going to do your work, find it yourself....Where the heck is the love in that or in answering with snide little comments...Just post the scriptures or at least the references to the scripture...you know like..John 3:16...Isaiah 61:1:1-6....Is that so hard...Opinions are all we have of scripture, I can twist or not my opinion...but if I use the Word straight out of God's Word, no matter if I twist my opinion, the truth is there for others to see...
Have a great day...
Shep
Have a great day...
Shep
I did the work and provided what I believe is appropriate. I find that the attitude toward the only voice that supports the tithe in this thread has been a bit on the snide side. Taking me to task is a rather pointed gesture, IMO.
Have a great day yourself, Shep!
goodshepard55
New Member
Lively...if you took that as taking you to task...my apologies....I just ask you to provide scriptures...which maybe he missed, or maybe needed clarification on...however the rest of the post is aimed at all...I have seen too many people here with the attitude to look it up yourself, and I seem to recall you did so in another thread to another poster...if you mistake people for you, then it is not less than someone asking you to clarify, when you said the same to another when they remarked ...Jesus died for all...I recall you made it very plain you were talking about all, not just you...so if I need to clarify that the above post was talking to all ...please let me know...then I will modify it as to not hurt your feelings...Love you and have a blessed day
Shep
Shep
Sorry, but I have posted an entire article with scriptural support already in this thread.
Playing the victim card doesn't gain you any ground. The only mockeries are all the denials of the clear language of scripture.
You claimed Abraham tithed. Yes...of the spoils that belonged to other people. You conveniently ignored that, later in Numbers 31, the Lord commanded FAR less than a tenth of the spoils.
You also claimed Jacob tithed. Well, he certainly was no example because he promised his tithe ONLY IF the Lord met his pre-conditions.
Tell me: Do you hold your money above the plate of robbery, demanding things of God before dropping it therein?
You also conveniently ignored the fact that wage earners were never required to hand over a portion of their wages to the Levites.
So, who REALLY is guilty of mockery?
Falsehoods, unreasonable denials, and willfull blindness to the truths presented directly from scripture give ample evidence to the detriment of your claims.
I experience tickling in my tummy when falling from a higher elevation. So what? Emotions are not a legitimate barometer for TRUTH.
Every cult I've ever encountered believe the same thing about their teachings that contradict the Bible.
(shrug) So?
The problem isn't in sharing what you do in your personal life. The problem is in your false teachings. You point, only generally, at Abraham and Jacob...never once expounding upon the actual particulars in those cases AND what ALL scripture has to say on the topic. You inject into scripture the idea that wage earners tithed, which is nowhere shown to be the case anywhere throughout scripture.
THAT is the problem.
SW
A falsehood by any other name is still a falsehood. You clearly refuse to accept every element of even the tithe that predates the Law.
By the way, there were Laws, statutes and commandments LONG before Moses ever walked this earth to write down the written Law specifically aimed at Israel. Go and read Genesis 25 sometime for what it says.
SW
Ahhhh. That's the beauty of denial, willfull blindness, and eisegetical interpretation. What's actually written in the word of God has no bearing upon what one wants to believe.
I actually pitty those who are little more than mere products of historic and modern institutional religion.
SW
LOL! I am no victim. Jesus is my Lord and my champion. I was simply taking note of the mocking tone that people who reject the tithe tend toward. That is something that no one should do, no matter what side of an issue anyone is on. It is heart issue, and God will deal with it. Tithing is indeed a spiritually discerned matter. It took me years to come to the point of understanding and complying with what God has called me to do. Not everyone is at the same point in their walk with God. No one can order or force anyone to tithe---it has to come from one's relationship with God.
That said, as God has showed me by His Spirit and through His word how He wants me to conduct my affairs how He wants me to trust Him completely, that should not incur mocking or dismissive comments.
That said, as God has showed me by His Spirit and through His word how He wants me to conduct my affairs how He wants me to trust Him completely, that should not incur mocking or dismissive comments.
Looks like we're on the same page here SW. It becomes very obvious that some are merely parroting what they have been taught by others, when they have difficulty supporting their belief with scriptures. I have found that most have little knowledge about the tithe laws given in the old covenant even though it is very clearly laid out in Deuteronomy 14 , it's so clear that one must just ignore it's there.
Some think that tithers are parroting what they have been taught, but speaking for myself, I sought out God's word on the matter, suspending all argument. I wanted to know the truth in spite of what I have been taught, which is a mixture of both sides, and it a confusiing mess for most people.
I thank my Lord Jesus Christ for teaching me what He desires from me.
I thank my Lord Jesus Christ for teaching me what He desires from me.
And so here we are again and still NO scriptures, none, notta a one. What is up with you? You have been asked repeatedly to post scripture that correctly supports your view on the tithe and you have yet to do so. The article you posted contained many errors and made false claims, you were challenged to produce scripture to support it and yet nothing. Your claim that Abraham , Isaac and Jacob were tithers has yet to be supported with scripture, and the list goes on, and on. You responded to a challenge to produce some scripture to support your view/opinion with "I shall bow out of this discussion by my own choice now, whether you like it or not." and you have yet to do that. Was this just another empty comment? Why do you continue to make this same unsupported claim? Support it or simply bow out. Thank you in advance.
I will bow out on my own, and it is not because of weakness, but becasue this is dishonouring to God to argue something that He opens people's hearts and minds to. I will not be pushed out...but as people continue to engage me, I will continue to respond.
So, just continue on addressing one another.
So, just continue on addressing one another.
Oh. Perhaps we were both wrong, then. Equally, I wasn't mocking, but rather observing the fact that you avoided some key questions, which is typical of those who believe every modern believer should be tithing in accordance with illegitimagte interpretations of scripture.
I am amazed at how so many professing believers resort to interpretational tactics they would never accept coming from cult groups such as mormons and jehovah's witnesses.
The problem I'm having is your inability to show us such a teaching without violating the most basic of rules for interpretational analysis. We alredy know the heart is desperately wicked, so reliance on the heart or human emotion clearly is an inferior reliance when replacing the clear language of scripture with such.
I have no problem with you personally choosing to tithe, although I may take issue with the direction of your tithe if that is the largest, primary portion of your giving being handed over to institutionalized religion to support the many luxuries therein. Doing such clearly negates that tithe falling under the classification of giving.
Well, people through the ages have created many gods for themselves. Many believe that their god wants every professing believer to hand over to organized religion what would otherwise have been their giving, all or most in support of THINGS before they ever give thought or practice meeting the needs of PEOPLE.
False gods abound in the hearts of men and women these days and historically, and they ALL think (thought) they're serving the REAL God who nowhere in His written word demanded that any of His people, AFTER the cross, hand over to institutional church organizations the largest, primary portion of their giving.
The only problem with that statement is that most of those people who feel the Lord wants them to tithe erroneously hand it over to organized religion rather than meet genuine needs of fellow believers first and foremost.
This really is a no-brainer. When anyone's heart remains unmoved by the fact that they are robbing God by supporting facilities, programs, religious staffing and lawn care BEFORE they see to the needs of fellow believers and the needy in one's community, that speaks of a very sick heart, soul and spirit condition whereby the person is utterly deceived when thinking that robbery of God is in line with God's will. Such a practice is self delusion and indicates a very hard heart when the alleged giver has no problem lavishing their so-called giving back upon themselves.
I have yet to find anyone who can justify that from anywhere inside the NT.
I agree.
Understand, however, that for anyone to play the victim card by falsely accusing others of mockery and belittlement when in fact all they're doing is trying to get the facts across, facts that happen to give rug burn to the feet of those who follow after false teachings such as an alleged requirement to tithe this side of the cross, that is nothing more than a clear indicator of a guilty conscience.
I believe Stoned did produce for us a reason as to why he/she tithes. The problem is that he/she thinks all professing believers should be doing so if only we all were hearing the voice of his/her god of tithing.
My experience with those who throw around large articles do so because such articles allegedly relieve them of personal responsibility, and therefore provide an escape hatch. The problem is that refusal to address the scriptures directly, and instead point at an external source, is a common malady among the notoriously lazy.
You're right. Stoned did nothing more than to vomit the usual falsehoods commonly harangued by false religion.
Personally, if I'm wrong about something, then I want to know by having been shown from scripture that what I believe is wrong. The juvenile level of blatant errors so common within the pro-required-tithe teachings are like rocks in the shoe. No matter how one shifts around, the discomfort of falsehoods remain. That camp has to this day not produced anything new that would serve as reason for me to take them seriously.
The level of intellectual dishonesty the pro-required-tithe camp perpetrates, by ignoring key elements that surround what Abraham, Isaac and Jacob did, speaks loud volumes about a dark and sinister enemy who has the hearts of so many who otherwise might serve the Lord well if only they could see the deception of heart, upon which they rely much too heavily.
Additionally, the practice of bowing out is common, strategic move among those choking on their own pride and who are intellectually lazy when they find their easily disproven theologies are too hard to defend. Avoidance of honesty and an unwillingness to admit error are earmarks of those who are deceived AND so full of personal pride that they refuse to even consider that their feelings and their wicked hearts might be misleading them.
The horrid demonstration of pride perpetrated by such people serve only as a sober reminder that we ALL must be on guard against falling into such traps.
Therein is the balance against any charge that I'm attacking only one person's beliefs. There's nothing new about the pro-required-tithe teachings. The roman catholic cult has been teaching that requirement for centuries. A roman catholic can't place their children in parochial schools if they don't tithe to the cult faithfully, unless they're willing to pay the huge entry fees.
The promise that ALL things work for the good to those who love God rings true within instances such as this. We ALL can thank the Lord that through the words of the deceived, we can experience yet another nudge to remain vigilant against the sublety of falsehoods.
What's really sad in this case is that required tithing is so blatantly obvious as being yet another false teaching.....unless someone can show me otherwise without resorting to blind denials of what's so obviously wrong with the already debunked claims in support of a tithe requirement in the NT.
SW
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