Tithing

[VictoryinJesus]

It’s confusing because now we all give 30% or better maybe 50% of all our living to the government, which is what the Leviticus priest hood would have represented in Old Testament times.

yea but can we fault churches for a willingness to house and distribute the money, when we are at the same time in agreement money is the answer. even though somewhere there is a verse “gold and silver I have none, but what I do have I give unto you: stand up and walk”? Yes, so confusing is a world driven by how much money people have…some for the government, some for the church, some to eat, some for retirement, some for accidents and hoping some is left over.

 

[Waiting on him]

yea but can we fault churches for a willingness to house and distribute the money, when we are at the same time in agreement money is the answer. even though somewhere there is a verse “gold and silver I have none, but what I do have I give unto you: stand up and walk”? Yes, so confusing is a world driven by how much money people have…some for the government, some for the church, some to eat, some for retirement, some for accidents and hoping some is left over.

Money isn’t the answer, Changed attitudes is the answer.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Money isn’t the answer, Changed attitudes is the answer.

Sounds good. Maybe God will rebuke the devourer? Is that OT only?

Malachi 3:11 And I will rebuke the devourer for your sakes, and he shall not destroy the fruits of your ground; neither shall your vine cast her fruit before the time in the field, saith the Lord of hosts.

 

[Waiting on him]

yea but can we fault churches for a willingness to house and distribute the money, when we are at the same time in agreement money is the answer. even though somewhere there is a verse “gold and silver I have none, but what I do have I give unto you: stand up and walk”? Yes, so confusing is a world driven by how much money people have…some for the government, some for the church, some to eat, some for retirement, some for accidents and hoping some is left over.

Money isn’t the answer, Changed attitudes is the answer.

the man propped up at the gate which is called beautiful was placed there by someone each morning. He was there for one specific purpose in my opinion. Along comes Peter and John and for the first time in this mans life someone loves him enough to say get up,,,, and be responsible for yourself.

 

[Waiting on him]

No the

Sounds good. Maybe God will rebuke the devourer? Is that OT only?

Malachi 3:11 And I will rebuke the devourer for your sakes, and he shall not destroy the fruits of your ground; neither shall your vine cast her fruit before the time in the field, saith the Lord of hosts.

The devourer is the religious system.

 

[Waiting on him]

Mark 12:38-40 KJV
[38] And he said unto them in his doctrine, Beware of the scribes, which love to go in long clothing, and love salutations in the marketplaces, [39] And the chief seats in the synagogues, and the uppermost rooms at feasts: [40] Which devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayers: these shall receive greater damnation.

 

[Taken]

You just keep on keeping on with what you receive. If you have a short work week that week, and less money, you tithe on what you made. Who is eagle eyeing? It's between you and God what you give.

I understand the principle of tithing. I also am not ignorant of peering eyes, snooty expressions, show off, gossiping, when an offering basket is passed from person to person...and probably why teaching of giving is without fanfare or identity and what an individual gives.

Why is that strange? You can't make promises to God?

Sure, I can make promises to God. Yet I know not all things, and do not like to make promises to MEN that is dependent on other men for me to keep that promise.
It’s a matter of, say I make a promise to men who conducts the financial business of the church, of $500 every week, and they plan according to my promise, and every week I give $10 because of unknown things happen in my circumstances. It is promising an unknown, that others expect to be fulfilled. It is putting the cart before the horse. Backwards. But then the majority of church’s, are run like a “business”, making grand plans, commitments, Before the funds are secured. We don’t operate our household in that manner. We discuss Ideas, secure the funds, then commit to going forth with the Ideas.
Some churches DO, operate in that same fashion, some don’t.

No one here is telling you to give money to God. But some of us feel that FOR US it is important. No one is condemning you here.

I am not subject to men, what they think or do, or believe men have the authority to condemn me. I stated my opinion. I favor men deciding for themselves and God rewards or withholds rewards as He decides.

As for income tax, I don't do that because it wouldn't make a difference if I did. But who cares if someone does?

Personally, I view a person freely giving, as a heartfelt gesture.. period. If a man-made law provides for a “taxing” reprieve, and a man wants to take advantage of that. I don’t care, their business. I stated my preference, and likewise, who should care how I conduct my affairs?

Is there something deeper here for you, that you have a problem with folks doing this?

Did I say, what others do, somehow creates a problem for me? It doesn’t.
People have options, choices, make decisions that is advantageous FOR them or becomes a decision that did not turn out as they hoped. Doesn’t affect me.

 

[farouk]

An offering is a different animal.
We have given offerings in the past, but cannot afford to, now.
Malachi 3 applies to tithes, not offerings.

(Also, we did not tithe off of SSI nor EBT because they are unearned; just wages & SSDI [a pension based on work].)

Malachi is still under the old economy, of course...

 

[Sabertooth]

Malachi is still under the old economy, of course...

True. I am just saying that God's given promise still works (at least, so far for us).

 

[MatthewG]

You do whatever you felt lead by the spirit to do. Free choice is always there. The Holy Spirit will never cause you to do evil.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Malachi is still under the old economy, of course...

@farouk get under the old economy but even your words there have me asking: what economy are The Children Of God the Father under now? Malachi reminds me of all the times in OT the LORD urged them to create in them a new heart, or the times He said to return to Him with their whole heart, to Love Him with their whole heart …(Imo) bring the whole tithe into the storehouse is being disregarded and therefore not discussed at all. I read those OT verses and think why would God tell them to do something impossible like “return to Me with your whole heart” or “create in you a new heart” yet NT seems to say it is no longer impossible what is impossible with men, is possible with God “renewing of the mind”. how can the whole tithe be brought into His house…does Christ present us wholly unto to God the Father? I think He does and in offering Himself without blemish in Himself He has fulfilled Malachi call to “bring the whole tithe”. What else is the resurrection we speak so much of concerning, where “in Him” you are “whole” and “complete”? What does resurrection mean if it doesn’t mean; no longer dead but Alive to bring forth fruit; wholly made complete and acceptable unto God?

 

[MatthewG]

Victory, the citizenship of heavenly economy, rich in the Lord Jesus Christ, blessed by the holy spirit, having a relationship with God without the need of a material building. In my best estimation.

 

[Mayflower]

Today the pizza delivery person came for a Christmas party for our church. Pastor said a few people wanted to stand up and give them a tip and the whole church stood up. They were crying and said their furnace had just gone out at home and this was really going to help them. It was really touching. I had to watch it online, because I had kids church today, but I got to contribute too. Not a tithing thing, but thought I'd share. Giving can be such a loving gesture and can help bring people to Christ too when done in love.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Victory, the citizenship of heavenly economy, rich in the Lord Jesus Christ, blessed by the holy spirit, having a relationship with God without the need of a material building. In my best estimation.

agree. What stands out in your post for me is: ‘rich in the Lord Jesus Christ’ where one could not necessarily possess much in the way of money but still be rich in praise and worship with the Father. Tithe is an interesting topic and one I’m still thinking over because of “by the mercies of God, Present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, and acceptable unto God…”

there again “present your bodies” …what does “bodies” mean? Because what I read is the only body which is Alive unto God is made “One body” where there is neither bond nor free, neither male nor female, neither Jew or Greek but instead a new creature; a new creature which avails much. (Imo) it is still a creature made whole …through and by the mercies of God unto edification of His body, the perfecting of His body with many members “presented” unto God, Alive in Him.

For example Judah. In OT Judah committed an abomination “treacherous” and profaned the sanctuary of the LORD which He loves …what does The LORD love if this is not speaking of: you are the sanctuary, the temple and habitation God desires to abode (Rest)in? God desires Mercy, not sacrifice? Then OT goes into: seeking a godly offspring. NT: God seeks such to worship Him in Spirit. It doesn’t say anything about ten percent to me. But instead even Israel did not find what was sought after which is Faith in God to be revealed in whom Christ? did God find “such to worship in Spirit” God who sought after a godly offspring: “This is My Son in whom I am well pleased”? did God find “seed” where if His seed remains as in He left “a remnant of the Spirit” …seed…a godly offspring…in his image…God seeks such to worship in Spirit…you are also His offspring?

just some thoughts…Judah moves from their offerings not being acceptable nor pleasing to “Then the offering of Judah will be pleasing to the Lord” where “without Faith it Is impossible to please God” but “With God all things are possible”. For: He is like a refiners fire and like fullers (to wash) soap. He will sit as a smelter (to purify, clean, make pure) of silver. He will refine them like gold and silver SO THAT they may present to the LORD offerings in righteousness. <(Imo) which is not speaking of purification of what belongs to Caesar but that which belongs “Alive” unto God. Because Paul tells what is presented unto God, which is always “you” “with us” “That they may present” or how else can any “present your bodies Alive, a Living sacrifice?

sorry that is so much. I’m not preaching at you but mostly working through it myself in hopes I don’t forget all He has did by and through Mercy. Which come to think of it where it says to give as you have received, the topic there unless I’ve misunderstood is “Mercy”.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Today the pizza delivery person came for a Christmas party for our church. Pastor said a few people wanted to stand up and give them a tip and the whole church stood up. They were crying and said their furnace had just gone out at home and this was really going to help them. It was really touching. I had to watch it online, because I had kids church today, but I got to contribute too. Not a tithing thing, but thought I'd share. Giving can be such a loving gesture and can help bring people to Christ too when done in love.

Love your testimony and to be clear …in no way am I dismissing helping others. I woke though this morning not thinking about the offering plate but how in churches new converts are present before the body. How new “joining” into the body are presented before the church. Right or wrong, that is all I’ve been questioning here; which is the tithe? The people presented before the body or what goes in the plate? Which is the ten percent?

 

[farouk]

Love your testimony and to be clear …in no way am I dismissing helping others. I woke though this morning not thinking about the offering plate but how in churches new converts are present before the body. How new “joining” into the body are presented before the church. Right or wrong, that is all I’ve been questioning here; which is the tithe? The people presented before the body or what goes in the plate? Which is the ten percent?

Hi @VictoryinJesus

"And this they did, not as we hoped, but first gave their own selves to the Lord, and unto us by the will of God." (2 Corinthians 8.5).

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Hi @VictoryinJesus

"And this they did, not as we hoped, but first gave their own selves to the Lord, and unto us by the will of God." (2 Corinthians 8.5).

exactly. But there again, what is the context? I’m sorry I don’t have time to go look up other translations besides KJV (which so many do not like)

how that in much proof of affliction the abundance of their joy and their deep poverty abounded unto the riches of their liberality. (While they promise you liberty, they themselves are servants of corruption: for whom a man is overcome, of the same he is brought into bondage.)

Also From the passage you quoted: Insomuch that we exhorted Titus, that as he made a beginning before, so he would also complete in you this grace also.
2 Corinthians 7:14-16 For if I have boasted any thing to him of you, I am not ashamed; (whosoever puts their trust in God will not be ashamed) but as we spake all things to you in truth, even so our boasting, which I made before Titus, is found a truth. [15] And his inward affection is more abundant (abounds) toward you, whilst he remembereth the obedience of you all, how with fear and trembling you received him. [16] I rejoice therefore that I have confidence in you in all things.

For ye know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that, though he was rich, yet for your sakes he became poor, that you through his poverty might become rich.
2 Corinthians 13:9 For we are glad, when we are weak, and you are strong: and this also we wish, even your perfection.

2 Corinthians 12:10-17 Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong.(in you) [11] I am become a fool in glorying; ye have compelled me: for I ought to have been commended of you: for in nothing am I behind the very chiefest apostles, though I be nothing. [12] Truly the signs of an apostle were wrought among you in all patience, in signs, and wonders, and mighty deeds. [13] For what is it wherein ye were inferior to other churches, except it be that I myself was not burdensome to you? forgive me this wrong. [14] Behold, the third time I am ready to come to you; and I will not be burdensome to you: for I seek not yours, but you: for the children ought not to lay up for the parents, but the parents for the children. [15] And I will very gladly spend and be spent for you; though the more abundantly I love you, the less I be loved. [16] But be it so, I did not burden you: nevertheless, being crafty, I caught you with guile. [17] Did I make a gain of you by any of them whom I sent unto you?

Romans 15:1-3 We then that are strong ought to bear the infirmities of the weak, and not to please ourselves. [2] Let every one of us please his neighbour for his good to edification. [3] For even Christ pleased not himself; but, as it is written, The reproaches of them that reproached thee fell on me.

just some quick thoughts…but unless I’ve misunderstood all the context points to that which is being perfected, made complete or whole is …people.