To ministers and Christian teachers of the Word

[Nancy]

Those in Jesus are NOT a slave to sin. Where did you get that falsehood? People are either a slave to sin, or a slave to righteousness. Romans 6. Jesus FREES us from sin, He doesn't leave us wallowing in the mire. John 8:34-36

If someone is struggling with sin, that is a sure sign they have never truly repented and received the powerful Holy Spirit, and without the Spirit of Christ indwelling them, they do not belong to Christ. Romans 8:9

1 John 1:8-9 are (8) those before Christ, and (9) what they must do to BECOME a Christian.

It is the same with Romans 7 and Romans 8 - before and after.





cc: @Nancy

Those in Jesus are NOT a slave to sin. Where did you get that falsehood? People are either a slave to sin, or a slave to righteousness. Romans 6. Jesus FREES us from sin, He doesn't leave us wallowing in the mire. John 8:34-36

If someone is struggling with sin, that is a sure sign they have never truly repented and received the powerful Holy Spirit, and without the Spirit of Christ indwelling them, they do not belong to Christ. Romans 8:9

1 John 1:8-9 are (8) those before Christ, and (9) what they must do to BECOME a Christian.

It is the same with Romans 7 and Romans 8 - before and after.
cc: @Nancy

Hi CS,
I think what he was trying to say (please correct if i'm wrong @Windmillcharge ) that sin still lives in us, and will until we go home. I do believe we can allow ourselves to be led by the spirit yet still choose to walk in the flesh hence = sin. IMPO if anybody is truly seeking God's ways, always, they will learn to hate sin just as God does. I know "Christians" who are living in sin and seem to have had their consciences a bit seared...these, again IMHO, are not seeking to please God above ALL. They do not put Him first, they aren't fit. But I see a big difference between falling into sin and walking/living in sin. Walking or living in sin shows total lack of repentance...one who falls and picks himself up and repents, continues on in the race.
As far as a sinful nature goes, should we not see that we no longer have that old man (nature)? We have a new nature in Christ....which should certainly cause us to naturally produce good fruit by growing in His likeness. I cannot say I agree we can be 100% sinless, I know we disagree there and that is okay...sin to some might not be sin to another...
..."Anything done without faith is sin." Romans 14:23. Pork is a sin if you think it is.
All things are permissible, but not all things are beneficial.
1 Corinthians 10:23.
This of course, would not apply to the standard lying, stealing, adultery etc...

 

[CharismaticLady]

Hi CS,
I think what he was trying to say (please correct if i'm wrong @Windmillcharge ) that sin still lives in us, and will until we go home. I do believe we can allow ourselves to be led by the spirit yet still choose to walk in the flesh hence = sin. IMPO if anybody is truly seeking God's ways, always, they will learn to hate sin just as God does. I know "Christians" who are living in sin and seem to have had their consciences a bit seared...these, again IMHO, are not seeking to please God above ALL. They do not put Him first, they aren't fit. But I see a big difference between falling into sin and walking/living in sin. Walking or living in sin shows total lack of repentance...one who falls and picks himself up and repents, continues on in the race.
As far as a sinful nature goes, should we not see that we no longer have that old man (nature)? We have a new nature in Christ....which should certainly cause us to naturally produce good fruit by growing in His likeness. I cannot say I agree we can be 100% sinless, I know we disagree there and that is okay...sin to some might not be sin to another...
..."Anything done without faith is sin." Romans 14:23. Pork is a sin if you think it is.
All things are permissible, but not all things are beneficial.
1 Corinthians 10:23.
This of course, would not apply to the standard lying, stealing, adultery etc...

Look at Galatians 5:19-21. Is there anything that you like to do? I've looked at it, and I'm not interested or guilty of indulging in any of them, and neither do any of my Christian friends. But I certainly did before I was born again (and I know my friends well enough to know their before and after testimonies as well. LOL)

Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

So the born again person does none of these things. So that is zero.

But that does not make us sinless in actuality. We all will still commit sins unintentionally, or have faults that we do willfully, but they are not sins unto death, as willful sins of lawlessness are. But God wants these cleansed as well, and overcome. That is where the fruit of the Spirit comes in. Also we MUST forgive. We have no choice. Matthew 6:14-15 tells us that these trespasses will also be cleansed down to zero, IF we forgive one another.

Thus zero plus zero is zero. Sinlessness.

But sinlessness is not perfection. For that we must look at 2 Peter 1:5-8.

5 But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, 6 to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, 7 to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. 8 For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[Nancy]

Look at Galatians 5:19-21. Is there anything that you like to do? I've looked at it, and I'm not interested or guilty of indulging in any of them, and neither do any of my Christian friends. But I certainly did before I was born again (and I know my friends well enough to know their before and after testimonies as well. LOL)

Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

So the born again person does none of these things. So that is zero.

But that does not make us sinless in actuality. We all will still commit sins unintentionally, or have faults that we do willfully, but they are not sins unto death, as willful sins of lawlessness are. But God wants these cleansed as well, and overcome. That is where the fruit of the Spirit comes in. Also we MUST forgive. We have no choice. Matthew 6:14-15 tells us that these trespasses will also be cleansed down to zero, IF we forgive one another.

Thus zero plus zero is zero. Sinlessness.

But sinlessness is not perfection. For that we must look at 2 Peter 1:5-8.

5 But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, 6 to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, 7 to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. 8 For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

"Look at Galatians 5:19-21. Is there anything that you like to do? " <----Of course not! Had more than enough of what this kind of life offers and it does not even phase me. Wouldn't think twice with some of those things in my B.C. days but, I'm not the same person I was back then...not at all.

The desire has been taken totally away and in it's place He has put His desires. Yet, there are times I will miss the mark of perfection and like yourself fall into gossip, or have unkind thoughts toward somebody. Then, confess and repent and ask for His help to overcome in these areas.

So I thank God for: 1 John 1:8,9
"If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."

I do believe John was speaking to the already born again here so, if they were sinless...he would never had to have written "If we say that we have no sin..."

JMT

 

[Rita]

Those in Jesus are NOT a slave to sin. Where did you get that falsehood? People are either a slave to sin, or a slave to righteousness. Romans 6. Jesus FREES us from sin, He doesn't leave us wallowing in the mire. John 8:34-36

If someone is struggling with sin, that is a sure sign they have never truly repented and received the powerful Holy Spirit, and without the Spirit of Christ indwelling them, they do not belong to Christ. Romans 8:9

1 John 1:8-9 are (8) those before Christ, and (9) what they must do to BECOME a Christian.

It is the same with Romans 7 and Romans 8 - before and after.





cc: @Nancy

Can I share something , I came to faith over 40 years ago, repented, received the Holy Spirit but was still very much hindered by an eating disorder ( food was in control - an addiction ) I was a slave to that illness, and certainly did not live in a freedom - it control my mind and responses - but I was saved. It took many many years to break free......well over 30years .......so please be careful how you judge.
We are a work in progress when we come to faith, and although Jesus does release us from sin through the work on the cross, actually breaking free from deep rooted things takes time with some of his people...

Rita

 

[farouk]

Can I share something , I came to faith over 40 years ago, repented, received the Holy Spirit but was still very much hindered by an eating disorder ( food was in control - an addiction ) I was a slave to that illness, and certainly did not live in a freedom - it control my mind and responses - but I was saved. It took many many years to break free......well over 30years .......so please be careful how you judge.
We are a work in progress when we come to faith, and although Jesus does release us from sin through the work on the cross, actually breaking free from deep rooted things takes time with some of his people...

Rita

@Rita

1 Samuel 7.12: EBENEZER, 'Hitherto hath the LORD helped us'.

 

[CharismaticLady]

"Look at Galatians 5:19-21. Is there anything that you like to do? " <----Of course not! Had more than enough of what this kind of life offers and it does not even phase me. Wouldn't think twice with some of those things in my B.C. days but, I'm not the same person I was back then...not at all.

The desire has been taken totally away and in it's place He has put His desires. Yet, there are times I will miss the mark of perfection and like yourself fall into gossip, or have unkind thoughts toward somebody. Then, confess and repent and ask for His help to overcome in these areas.

So I thank God for: 1 John 1:8,9
"If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."

I do believe John was speaking to the already born again here so, if they were sinless...he would never had to have written "If we say that we have no sin..."

JMT

Nancy, if we are lying to say we have no sin, then Jesus didn't cleanse us from ALL our sin. And 1 John 3:5 is error: We know that Jesus was manifested (came and was crucified) to TAKE AWAY our sin, and in Him there is no sin.

John is talking about the sins that are on our account.

Before Christ ALL of our sins are on our account.

Colossians 2:
13 And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses, 14 having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. 15 Having disarmed principalities and powers, He made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them in it.

In other words, the law was given because of transgression, Galatians 3:19. But when Christ took away our sin, He nailed not only our sin to the cross, but the law that condemned us. But not being under law doesn't mean we can sin free from guilt and punishment, as Satan has taught us through false teachers. No! The wages of sin is still death. But that is what the reborn nature is for. To have no desire to indulge in the sins of the flesh any longer. The old man has no dominion over us while we are walking in His Spirit.

You have heard it pounded into our head that the only sinless person was Jesus, and ever will be. That is the opposite of the gospel. Romans 8:29 says "For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. Yes, Jesus was sinless. But He made it possible that we can be also!

Nancy, as we've talked before, grace has not changed. But Satan has put it in the heart of man that the definition of grace is unmerited favor. No!!! It is the power of God given to us to make us like Christ.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Can I share something , I came to faith over 40 years ago, repented, received the Holy Spirit but was still very much hindered by an eating disorder ( food was in control - an addiction ) I was a slave to that illness, and certainly did not live in a freedom - it control my mind and responses - but I was saved. It took many many years to break free......well over 30years .......so please be careful how you judge.
We are a work in progress when we come to faith, and although Jesus does release us from sin through the work on the cross, actually breaking free from deep rooted things takes time with some of his people...

Rita

Rita, you brought up a great point. Is all sin the same? No, not in God's eyes. 1 John 5:16-17 shows that what we are freed from is willful lawlessness - sins unto death. In other words heinous sins as in the last six commandments, dishonoring our parents, murder, stealing, committing adultery, bearing false witness (that could get someone else executed), coveting our neighbors things - the root of the previous sins.

Your eating disorder is lawful. In other words, not a sin unto death. It may not be healthy, but breathing the air in Los Angeles, is not healthy either. The only sin against our body that God forbids is sexual immorality. And in Paul's day in Corinth, the prostitutes were all in the temple of Diana. They were demon possessed.

1 Corinthians 6:
All things are lawful for me, but all things are not helpful. All things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any. 13 Foods for the stomach and the stomach for foods, but God will destroy both it and them. Now the body is not for sexual immorality but for the Lord, and the Lord for the body. 14 And God both raised up the Lord and will also raise us up by His power.

15 Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ? Shall I then take the members of Christ and make them members of a harlot? Certainly not! 16 Or do you not know that he who is joined to a harlot is one body with her? For “the two,” He says, “shall become one flesh.” 17 But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him.

18 Flee sexual immorality. Every sin that a man does is outside the body, but he who commits sexual immorality sins against his own body. 19 Or do you not know that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and you are not your own? 20 For you were bought at a price; therefore glorify God in your body and in your spirit, which are God’s.

So, Rita, you were brought under the power of food, a trespass, a sin not unto the death of the soul. God forgives you of trespasses under one condition. You must forgive everyone you have been holding grudges against. Never let a root of bitterness take hold and flourish. Do that and you remain sinless, assuming you are not committing willful lawlessness.

Matthew 6:14-15
14 “For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. 15 But if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses."

 

[Nancy]

Nancy, if we are lying to say we have no sin, then Jesus didn't cleanse us from ALL our sin. And 1 John 3:5 is error: We know that Jesus was manifested (came and was crucified) to TAKE AWAY our sin, and in Him there is no sin.

John is talking about the sins that are on our account.

Before Christ ALL of our sins are on our account.

Colossians 2:
13 And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses, 14 having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. 15 Having disarmed principalities and powers, He made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them in it.

In other words, the law was given because of transgression, Galatians 3:19. But when Christ took away our sin, He nailed not only our sin to the cross, but the law that condemned us. But not being under law doesn't mean we can sin free from guilt and punishment, as Satan has taught us through false teachers. No! The wages of sin is still death. But that is what the reborn nature is for. To have no desire to indulge in the sins of the flesh any longer. The old man has no dominion over us while we are walking in His Spirit.

You have heard it pounded into our head that the only sinless person was Jesus, and ever will be. That is the opposite of the gospel. Romans 8:29 says "For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. Yes, Jesus was sinless. But He made it possible that we can be also!

Nancy, as we've talked before, grace has not changed. But Satan has put it in the heart of man that the definition of grace is unmerited favor. No!!! It is the power of God given to us to make us like Christ.

Hi C.L.,

"But that is what the reborn nature is for. To have no desire to indulge in the sins of the flesh any longer. The old man has no dominion over us while we are walking in His Spirit."

Yes, I agree once born again, there should be a desire to please God and not ourselves. The old man should eventually become unrecognizable to those around him. And again, yes I agree that walking in His Spirit gives us the power to not sin but...not all walk 100% of the time in the Spirit, but the flesh, which we battle against the Spirit, will rear it's ugly head now and then and when it does, we are to immediately repent...I know you separate the sins unto and not unto death but, does not ALL sin require death as payment? Yes, He always makes a way to escape sin and we should always choose rightly...yet, what of those who are babes and wouldn't recognize a door He's opened is the correct one? Or, a weak brother or sister? We are to pick them up, allow them to lean on us for strength and encouragement...IF they are repentant, that is. Also, why do we have 1 John 2:1 if we are able to "never" sin?
“My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:”

"But Satan has put it in the heart of man that the definition of grace is unmerited favor. No!!! It is the power of God given to us to make us like Christ."

Now, I was always under the impression it was the Holy Spirit that gives us the strength and power to make us "Christlike"...and to me, Grace is still getting what we do not deserve and His mercy is Him withholding His wrath when we DO deserve it. So, I'm not sure where your coming from with His grace giving us His power. Any scripture verses to refer me to about that?

Thank you for your reply C.L.
In Him,
Nancy

 

[Episkopos]

Can I share something , I came to faith over 40 years ago, repented, received the Holy Spirit but was still very much hindered by an eating disorder ( food was in control - an addiction ) I was a slave to that illness, and certainly did not live in a freedom - it control my mind and responses - but I was saved. It took many many years to break free......well over 30years .......so please be careful how you judge.
We are a work in progress when we come to faith, and although Jesus does release us from sin through the work on the cross, actually breaking free from deep rooted things takes time with some of his people...

Rita

This concerns what we are to add to our faith as per 2 Pet. 1. This concerns Christian character in maturity....not sanctification.


Overcoming habits and disorders is a part of the maturing process...namely...self-control. It's a hard one to master. But our maturity is about how we do in our own strength; how godly character becomes ingrained in us over time through being exposed to Christ and His grace. When we are dead in Christ and walking in HIS power and life...there is no need of SELF control...since the self is crucified in that state. However we can take up the self life again if we are tired of living in holiness.

There is also the character of they who lack boldness. That is also a maturity trait and part of the maturity process...namely...adding virtue (manliness). For some this is very difficult. But in the Spirit we are as bold as a lion...fearless.

The idea is to become in our character what we are in the Spirit. And the culmination is love. It is love from above as a gift of the Spirit. AND it becomes love from within us from a character that is formed in Christ-likeness.

So we are giving back to God a talent for His talent. For His grace we are returning a Christ-like character that resembles the Christ we walk in by the Spirit. So we are being conformed to His image.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Hi C.L.,

"But that is what the reborn nature is for. To have no desire to indulge in the sins of the flesh any longer. The old man has no dominion over us while we are walking in His Spirit."

Yes, I agree once born again, there should be a desire to please God and not ourselves. The old man should eventually become unrecognizable to those around him. And again, yes I agree that walking in His Spirit gives us the power to not sin but...not all walk 100% of the time in the Spirit, but the flesh, which we battle against the Spirit, will rear it's ugly head now and then and when it does, we are to immediately repent...I know you separate the sins unto and not unto death but, does not ALL sin require death as payment? Yes, He always makes a way to escape sin and we should always choose rightly...yet, what of those who are babes and wouldn't recognize a door He's opened is the correct one? Or, a weak brother or sister? We are to pick them up, allow them to lean on us for strength and encouragement...IF they are repentant, that is. Also, why do we have 1 John 2:1 if we are able to "never" sin?
“My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:”

"But Satan has put it in the heart of man that the definition of grace is unmerited favor. No!!! It is the power of God given to us to make us like Christ."

Now, I was always under the impression it was the Holy Spirit that gives us the strength and power to make us "Christlike"...and to me, Grace is still getting what we do not deserve and His mercy is Him withholding His wrath when we DO deserve it. So, I'm not sure where your coming from with His grace giving us His power. Any scripture verses to refer me to about that?

Thank you for your reply C.L.
In Him,
Nancy

We are on the same walk and I love you, sister. Yes, there will be babes in Christ. But just as Paul praised them, holding them up, in 1 Corinthians 1, he thereafter put the fear of God into them! Don't think that Paul calling them babes is the natural state of a born again Christian. No! He called them carnal. And it worked. They repented. By Paul's second letter in chapter 7 he told them their repentance lead to salvation! That should give some pause, as they had clearly fallen from grace. Now, they are no longer carnal, but able to walk in the Spirit and endure forever.

 

[marks]

So we have found a SECOND “unforgivable sin”.

Just out of curiosity, what makes this sin worse than so many others that the Bible lists?

I don't know Enoch's answer, but sexual sins are different in that they are against one's own body.

I think this refers to the physiological corruption introduced to the body in the addictive process of sexual sin.

Much love!

 

[Nancy]

We are on the same walk and I love you, sister. Yes, there will be babes in Christ. But just as Paul praised them, holding them up, in 1 Corinthians 1, he thereafter put the fear of God into them! Don't think that Paul calling them babes is the natural state of a born again Christian. No! He called them carnal. And it worked. They repented. By Paul's second letter in chapter 7 he told them their repentance lead to salvation! That should give some pause, as they had clearly fallen from grace. Now, they are no longer carnal, but able to walk in the Spirit and endure forever.

Agreed sister,
The Corinth Church were quite carnal! Like, crazy carnal. Worse than unbelievers!
Paul seems to come on at first, with the soft stuff and then he get's down to the nitty- gritty with them, yes.

Chapter 7:13-16 "And if a believing woman has a husband who is not a believer and he is willing to continue living with her, she must not leave him. 14For the believing wife brings holiness to her marriage, and the believing husband brings holiness to his marriage. Otherwise, your children would not be holy, but now they are holy. 15(But if the husband or wife who isn’t a believer insists on leaving, let them go. In such cases the believing husband or wife is no longer bound to the other, for God has called you to live in peace.) 16 Don’t you wives realize that your husbands might be saved because of you? And don’t you husbands realize that your wives might be saved because of you?"

These verses hold much meaning to me personally. My mom was a believer, my dad was not so much. When my mom was in the hospital, close to death...she had said something that always made these verses come alive to me. "Honey, I'm ready to go home, I finished what the Lord wanted me to do, and your father is with Him now." My dad had died 28 days before my mother, they were young.
Off topic there...sorry

 

[marks]

Those in Jesus are NOT a slave to sin. Where did you get that falsehood? People are either a slave to sin, or a slave to righteousness. Romans 6. Jesus FREES us from sin, He doesn't leave us wallowing in the mire. John 8:34-36

If someone is struggling with sin, that is a sure sign they have never truly repented and received the powerful Holy Spirit, and without the Spirit of Christ indwelling them, they do not belong to Christ. Romans 8:9

1 John 1:8-9 are (8) those before Christ, and (9) what they must do to BECOME a Christian.

It is the same with Romans 7 and Romans 8 - before and after.

21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Paul affirms the flesh remains the slave of sin even after I am delivered - lit. "out of the body of this death". You were a slave to sin, but now have a slave to righteousness. But the body of flesh - meat - is not redeemed, purchased back, restored, but remains in corruption. Until that day when the body of our humiliation is changed to be like His glorious body.

We are freed from the body of this death in sin being justified - made righteous - through our new birth into a new creation, the new man, created patterned after God in righteousness and true holiness. But the old man, the flesh, remains as it was.

Ephesians 4
20 But ye have not so learned Christ;
21 If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus:
22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
25 Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another.

When we understand that the flesh spoken of is just that, our flesh, and that it was corrupted by sin, and that corruption compounds with more sin, and that this is the body we live in, we realize that we are like Jesus was, children born of God living in terrestrial bodies of flesh. The difference being His was a new line of humanity, therefore uncorrupted by sin. Born in the "Likeness of sinful flesh".

I don't think this means Jesus was born with a similitude of a "sin nature" that afflicts all of Adam's humanity. Is there any teaching in the Bible that tells us we have a "sin nature" Apart from the corruption of our flesh? Jesus was born in a body the same as ours, but without sin.

There is the old man, the child of Adam, corrupt, the body we live in. And there is the new man, righteous and holy, the child of God. But unlike Jesus, we live in bodies of "sinful flesh".

Nonetheless I am not the body I live in. And that body has been destroyed, that is, rendered powerless, so that we should not serve sin. Not destroyed, as in, it will no longer be what it is. It remains as-is, lusting against the flesh. It is there to take opportunity if opportunity is given.

5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed (lit. cast down to inefficacy, made of no effect), that henceforth we should not serve sin.

7 For he that is dead is freed (lit. justified) from (Gk. apo - away from) sin.

We remain justified, the one who is "justified away from sin" vs. 7, justified is Perfect Tense, the effect remains. Passive voice, it is done to us. We are justified not by ourself, it is God who justifies us. And being justified is a once for all time act. His justification of us renders us righteous, but does not change our body, in which lives sin.

That comes later, when the corruptible shall be clothed upon with incorruption, and the mortal be clothed upon with immortality.

Much love!

 

[marks]

But just as Paul praised them, holding them up, in 1 Corinthians 1, he thereafter put the fear of God into them! Don't think that Paul calling them babes is the natural state of a born again Christian. No! He called them carnal. And it worked. They repented. By Paul's second letter in chapter 7 he told them their repentance lead to salvation! That should give some pause, as they had clearly fallen from grace. Now, they are no longer carnal, but able to walk in the Spirit and endure forever.

Here's what Paul actually wrote to these Christians whom he calls carnal:

6 Even as the testimony of Christ was confirmed in you:
7 So that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ:
8 Who shall also confirm you unto the end, that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.
9 God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord.

God lets them know that He Himself will confirm them unto the end, that they may be blameless in that day.

Much like in Thessalonians,

19 Quench not the Spirit.
20 Despise not prophesyings.
21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
22 Abstain from all appearance of evil.
23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
24 Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it.

Sanctification is from God, and He is faithful to what He promises.

Much love!

 

[marks]

then Jesus didn't cleanse us from ALL our sin.

Who is the old man, and who is the new man, and what does it mean to put off the old man, and put on the new man? What does it mean that the new man is created patterned after God in righteousness and true holiness? Eph 4:23-24

Much love!

 

[marks]

Colossians 2:
13 And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses, 14 having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. 15 Having disarmed principalities and powers, He made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them in it.

In other words, the law was given because of transgression, Galatians 3:19. But when Christ took away our sin, He nailed not only our sin to the cross, but the law that condemned us.

This "handwriting", cheirographon, it turns out this word was used for a promissory note. If you took on a debt, borrowed some money, opened a charge account at the market, you would give them your handwriting as your proof of indebtedness. The NASB translates as "certificate of debt".

Paul shows this in Philemon, as he says, if he owes you anything charge it to me, see, I've written in my own hand. Paul dictated his letters normally, so this was an insertion in the letter where he gave Philemon his cheirographon.

God wiped clean our certificate of debt by nailing it to the cross. He became sin, who knew no sin . . .

Much love!

 

[CharismaticLady]

Agreed sister,
The Corinth Church were quite carnal! Like, crazy carnal. Worse than unbelievers!
Paul seems to come on at first, with the soft stuff and then he get's down to the nitty- gritty with them, yes.

Chapter 7:13-16 "And if a believing woman has a husband who is not a believer and he is willing to continue living with her, she must not leave him. 14For the believing wife brings holiness to her marriage, and the believing husband brings holiness to his marriage. Otherwise, your children would not be holy, but now they are holy. 15(But if the husband or wife who isn’t a believer insists on leaving, let them go. In such cases the believing husband or wife is no longer bound to the other, for God has called you to live in peace.) 16 Don’t you wives realize that your husbands might be saved because of you? And don’t you husbands realize that your wives might be saved because of you?"

These verses hold much meaning to me personally. My mom was a believer, my dad was not so much. When my mom was in the hospital, close to death...she had said something that always made these verses come alive to me. "Honey, I'm ready to go home, I finished what the Lord wanted me to do, and your father is with Him now." My dad had died 28 days before my mother, they were young.
Off topic there...sorry

That's beautiful, sis

 

[marks]

Nancy, as we've talked before, grace has not changed. But Satan has put it in the heart of man that the definition of grace is unmerited favor. No!!! It is the power of God given to us to make us like Christ.

I think that grace is God's unearned gift to man of Christ Himself. I think that charis describes the indescribable blessedness of Christ in me. Our rejoicing is in the certainty of this truth.

Much love!

 

[marks]

This concerns what we are to add to our faith as per 2 Pet. 1. This concerns Christian character in maturity....not sanctification.

Overcoming habits and disorders is a part of the maturing process...namely...self-control. It's a hard one to master. But our maturity is about how we do in our own strength; how godly character becomes ingrained in us over time through being exposed to Christ and His grace. When we are dead in Christ and walking in HIS power and life...there is no need of SELF control...since the self is crucified in that state. However we can take up the self life again if we are tired of living in holiness.

There is also the character of they who lack boldness. That is also a maturity trait and part of the maturity process...namely...adding virtue (manliness). For some this is very difficult. But in the Spirit we are as bold as a lion...fearless.

The idea is to become in our character what we are in the Spirit. And the culmination is love. It is love from above as a gift of the Spirit. AND it becomes love from within us from a character that is formed in Christ-likeness.

So we are giving back to God a talent for His talent. For His grace we are returning a Christ-like character that resembles the Christ we walk in by the Spirit. So we are being conformed to His image.

Hi Episkopos,

I like this a lot!

Question . . . on this part,

However we can take up the self life again if we are tired of living in holiness.

Do you agree that we can equally put away the self life? When we get tired of living in self-reliance?

Much love!

 

[marks]

For His grace we are returning a Christ-like character that resembles the Christ we walk in by the Spirit.

Walking worth of His calling.