Now there's some stellar reasoning!!ChristianJuggarnaut said:
"Secular" of course to you meaning "not fundamentalist".
Oh, I think it is. But your response gives me a good idea of where on the timeline you probably sit.
Today's teens "most well-behaved on record"
- Thread starter River Jordan
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River,
Does the "church" have more of an influence on kids than the secular world? Answer honest if you are even able to.
Yes, secular equals non fundamentalist.
I had your age spot on the first post I ever read of yours (26).
You will never be as gifted as I in this arena. Please make a guess though.
I also knew your general geographic area before you gave it. Have a guess at mine as well.
Does the "church" have more of an influence on kids than the secular world? Answer honest if you are even able to.
Yes, secular equals non fundamentalist.
I had your age spot on the first post I ever read of yours (26).
You will never be as gifted as I in this arena. Please make a guess though.
I also knew your general geographic area before you gave it. Have a guess at mine as well.
marksman
My eldest granddaughter showing the result of her
MADAD, I blanched a bit when I read your post. I live in Melbourne and we have problems of a similar kind but I don't think that it is as bad as that. From what you say and I believe every word of it, that Casino is totally in the hands of Satan because no one in their right mind would do those things to themselves. They have to be demon possessed in some cases and in others demon controlled because they are stepping into his territory and subjecting themselves to his authority.
Of course the left wing do gooders will say they are just having a good night out, but if that is a good night out, give me badness any day. Like most atheists, homosexuals and god haters, they spend most of their life in denial because they can't handle the truth. A case of eat, drink and be merry for tomorrow we die. With an attitude like that and a life like that death will come quickly....and then the judgment.
The church would be much more useful if instead of getting into their holy huddles, they went to the Casino and spent the time there talking to the lonely people that invade it, buying them a drink and generally showing the love that Christ has for people. In all probability they would prevent some of the nasty goings on if they did this and they certainly would achieve more than if they kept to their holy huddle.
I did training in drug rehabilitation with Teen Challenge and my practical assignments were not in a church singing. They were on the streets of St. Kilda during the night walking and talking to the druggies, some as young as 13.
No wonder Jesus said to GO INTO ALL THE WORLD.
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Of course the left wing do gooders will say they are just having a good night out, but if that is a good night out, give me badness any day. Like most atheists, homosexuals and god haters, they spend most of their life in denial because they can't handle the truth. A case of eat, drink and be merry for tomorrow we die. With an attitude like that and a life like that death will come quickly....and then the judgment.
The church would be much more useful if instead of getting into their holy huddles, they went to the Casino and spent the time there talking to the lonely people that invade it, buying them a drink and generally showing the love that Christ has for people. In all probability they would prevent some of the nasty goings on if they did this and they certainly would achieve more than if they kept to their holy huddle.
I did training in drug rehabilitation with Teen Challenge and my practical assignments were not in a church singing. They were on the streets of St. Kilda during the night walking and talking to the druggies, some as young as 13.
No wonder Jesus said to GO INTO ALL THE WORLD.
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You know, I can't tell you how fascinating it is to me that when presented with info that shows teenagers are committing fewer crimes, doing less drugs, getting pregnant less, etc., the first instinct of so many here is to find some way to argue against it. It's like you guys can't stand the thought of well-behaved teens or something. :wacko:ChristianJuggarnaut said:
Congrats. I'm sure my first intro post and profile helped too.
Conclusions are generally drawn from data correct?
So, if you refer to data that suggests teens are more well-behaved now, and previously refer to data that suggests teens are leaving the church, how can you possibly question my above logic?
Oh that's right I know how. You are a troll.
So, if you refer to data that suggests teens are more well-behaved now, and previously refer to data that suggests teens are leaving the church, how can you possibly question my above logic?
Oh that's right I know how. You are a troll.
Because you're apparently assuming I'm committing the correlation equals causation fallacy.ChristianJuggarnaut said:
Ah...what would a post from a fundie be without a personal insult?
No insult intended as I am indeed a troll as well. I seem to be a better one however since it appears
at least from my point of view, that you are not having any fun with it.
There can be no fallacy if both conclusions are true. A fallacy could be found in the sampling perhaps. In order for that to be determined we would have to know details of individuals sampled and since that wound create bias, we are safer to assume both studies are valid and therefore my conclusion would necessarily follow.
at least from my point of view, that you are not having any fun with it.
There can be no fallacy if both conclusions are true. A fallacy could be found in the sampling perhaps. In order for that to be determined we would have to know details of individuals sampled and since that wound create bias, we are safer to assume both studies are valid and therefore my conclusion would necessarily follow.
Then I guess I don't understand what you mean by "troll".
And yes, your claim that I must be "praising" secular society is based in the fallacy of correlation equals causation. It assumes that the cause of teens being more well-behaved is them being less religious (and then projects that assumption onto me). That's a ridiculous as saying that I must also be "praising" obesity, since the better behavior also coincides with increased obesity rates.
And yes, your claim that I must be "praising" secular society is based in the fallacy of correlation equals causation. It assumes that the cause of teens being more well-behaved is them being less religious (and then projects that assumption onto me). That's a ridiculous as saying that I must also be "praising" obesity, since the better behavior also coincides with increased obesity rates.
Have you ever taken any philosophy courses? If so, you should seek a tuition refund.
What do you do with a backslidden baptist?
Ask for a refundie
What do you do with a backslidden baptist?
Ask for a refundie
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
Ok so I am just starting to get what a troll is. Correct me if I am wrong, but I think a troll is a person who comes onto a message board and basically promotes ideas that are always contrary to the philosophy of the community or they refuse to agree with anyone, including people who attempt to see their pov. Is that pretty much it?
I guess I would fall under the definition of a troll because I am not a fundamentalist; however, I do agree with many pov on this board and I do try to promote positive, Christian ideas. My purpose is not to fight, but to engage in dialogue. I wonder if everyone can be considered a troll by someone.
I guess the other problem is that I tend to like trolls because they usually make me think. People who parrot the safe, Christian culture, party line bore me to tears. No sure why Christians often value safe ideas over challenging ones, but it has been my experience most of the time in many conservative Christian circles.
In any case, I do enjoy posting here and I do consider myself part of the community. I think Wormwood's posts have challenged me the most lately.
I guess I would fall under the definition of a troll because I am not a fundamentalist; however, I do agree with many pov on this board and I do try to promote positive, Christian ideas. My purpose is not to fight, but to engage in dialogue. I wonder if everyone can be considered a troll by someone.
I guess the other problem is that I tend to like trolls because they usually make me think. People who parrot the safe, Christian culture, party line bore me to tears. No sure why Christians often value safe ideas over challenging ones, but it has been my experience most of the time in many conservative Christian circles.
In any case, I do enjoy posting here and I do consider myself part of the community. I think Wormwood's posts have challenged me the most lately.
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
Ok, one more troll related question - can a person who uses sarcasm and insults to shutdown challenging ideas, in the name of defending Christianity be considered a troll or do you have to be someone who tries to whip those defenders into a frenzy to be considered a true troll?
Being 60 years old, I personally have seen the moral change in people over the decades, from just being disrespectful to now outright murder of one's parents (such as Tyler Hadley in Florida, who murdered his parents in 2011 with a hammer when he was 17, then threw a house party 3 hours later or of Daniel Petric in 2007, who at 17, shot both his parents [killing his mother] because his father had taken a violent video game called Halo 3 from him or of Noah Crooks in Iowa, who at the age of 13, shot his mother 20 times [and also admitted to trying to rape her] because she had confiscated his video game Call of Duty in 2013) as well as of others.
Jesus said that our time period would be characterized by lack of love, saying of his invisible "presence" (Matt 24:3, Greek parousia, not erchomia meaning "coming", that began at the beginning of the "Lord's day" in 1914, Rev 1:10), that "because of the increasing of lawlessness, the love of the greater number will grow cold."(Matt 24:12) Indeed, love has "grown cold", and not just with teenagers, but all of the restless masses of mankind, "the sea".(Isa 17:12; 57:20; Rev 21:1, those who are "restless" for change, never satisfied)
This lack of love that truly began to accelerate since 1914 (when Satan was thrown out the heavens, Rev 12:7-9) is now in freefall, gaining momentum like a snowball rolling down a hill on a snowy day.(Rev 12:12, Satan knows that since his eviction from heaven, he has "great anger", because he has a "short period of time" before his being abyssed for a 1,000 years, Rev 20:1-3)
Teenagers are more than disrespectful, but arrogant, and at times threatening. Many who are immigrating to the United States, have vividly pointed out the violence among teenagers in their home countries of Guatemala, Honduras and El Salvador.
We are living during an era of rapid change, especially morally and of which teenagers are being infected with the "spirit of the world" that displays itself in loveless or hateful or wicked acts.(Eph 2:2) Twenty year old Adam Lanza showed such a wicked disposition, gunning down 20 children and 5 adults at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Connecticut in December 2012, after having murdered his own mother.
The apostle Paul calls these times "the last days" and describes them as "critical times".(2 Tim 3:1) In using the expression "last days", it shows that they are limited in time, that they will soon come to an end, for Jesus paralleled his invisible "presence" to the "days of Noah".(Matt 24:37)
The 120 years prior to the global deluge were surely wicked (Gen 6:3), for Jehovah God said: "Consequently, Jehovah saw that man’s wickedness was great on the earth and that every inclination of the thoughts of his heart was only bad all the time."(Gen 6:5)
But just as the wickedness that existed then among mankind was vanquished (Gen 7:21), so likewise our Creator has set an appointed time soon to remove all the wickedness that is in every nook and cranny on the earth. It is called Armageddon, the "war of the great day of God the Almighty".(Rev 16:14, 16)
Jesus said that our time period would be characterized by lack of love, saying of his invisible "presence" (Matt 24:3, Greek parousia, not erchomia meaning "coming", that began at the beginning of the "Lord's day" in 1914, Rev 1:10), that "because of the increasing of lawlessness, the love of the greater number will grow cold."(Matt 24:12) Indeed, love has "grown cold", and not just with teenagers, but all of the restless masses of mankind, "the sea".(Isa 17:12; 57:20; Rev 21:1, those who are "restless" for change, never satisfied)
This lack of love that truly began to accelerate since 1914 (when Satan was thrown out the heavens, Rev 12:7-9) is now in freefall, gaining momentum like a snowball rolling down a hill on a snowy day.(Rev 12:12, Satan knows that since his eviction from heaven, he has "great anger", because he has a "short period of time" before his being abyssed for a 1,000 years, Rev 20:1-3)
Teenagers are more than disrespectful, but arrogant, and at times threatening. Many who are immigrating to the United States, have vividly pointed out the violence among teenagers in their home countries of Guatemala, Honduras and El Salvador.
We are living during an era of rapid change, especially morally and of which teenagers are being infected with the "spirit of the world" that displays itself in loveless or hateful or wicked acts.(Eph 2:2) Twenty year old Adam Lanza showed such a wicked disposition, gunning down 20 children and 5 adults at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Connecticut in December 2012, after having murdered his own mother.
The apostle Paul calls these times "the last days" and describes them as "critical times".(2 Tim 3:1) In using the expression "last days", it shows that they are limited in time, that they will soon come to an end, for Jesus paralleled his invisible "presence" to the "days of Noah".(Matt 24:37)
The 120 years prior to the global deluge were surely wicked (Gen 6:3), for Jehovah God said: "Consequently, Jehovah saw that man’s wickedness was great on the earth and that every inclination of the thoughts of his heart was only bad all the time."(Gen 6:5)
But just as the wickedness that existed then among mankind was vanquished (Gen 7:21), so likewise our Creator has set an appointed time soon to remove all the wickedness that is in every nook and cranny on the earth. It is called Armageddon, the "war of the great day of God the Almighty".(Rev 16:14, 16)
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
guestman - yes, youth have a basic tendency towards evil - just like everyone else. So what do you think Jesus and Paul were trying to say? That in the end times - sometime in their own distant future that kids would get worse? This idea does not fit with what we know about the consistent "lost nature" of humanity. The fact is, all the verses in the New Testament that talk about how bad humanity is, are actually trying to make the point that everyone living after the Resurrection are in the end times - they believed (and were right) that the end times were immediate. Everyday after Christ raised from the dread is part of the end times. The unredeemed are just as evil minded as they has always been.
Just because the 24 hour news cycle reports evil every second of the day doesn't mean there is more evil.
Just because the 24 hour news cycle reports evil every second of the day doesn't mean there is more evil.
Here's the problem with trying to use individual incidents to try and disprove larger trends and data sets....it doesn't work. We can pull up horrific crimes from any era, point to them, and sputter "Oh my! Look how terrible things have gotten!!"
But I know one thing...if you gave me a choice between living now, or living in the 1800's, I'd take 2014 in a heartbeat.
But I know one thing...if you gave me a choice between living now, or living in the 1800's, I'd take 2014 in a heartbeat.
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