Todd Friel, John MacArthur, Bethel/Hillsong's Music and the like

[DuckieLady]

I used to like Todd Friel a lot, along with John MacArthur, and I had looked up to both of them when it came to theology, but in the last year or so I've distanced myself from both because I'm sensing a lot of pride and hardness of heart.

In the beginning, I avoided Bethel and Hillsong's music thinking it was demonic (that's basically what they said), but then I thought of Luke 9:50 "Do not stop him," Jesus said, "for whoever is not against you is for you." But it seems to me that these teachers have also spoken, quite harshly, towards Michael Brown, who handled them very graciously.

I still don't agree with a lot of what they do. I don't see the love of Christ or the gentle correction mentioned in 2 Timothy 2:23-26.

Then I wondered if any of this "debating" was really edifying for the church, or merely causing division for the sake of spiritual boasting and pride.

To be honest, these days, I've narrowed it down to Shane Idleman and Paul Washer. I don't have any real conviction set in stone, which is why I am reaching out and asking what you all think.

 

[TLHKAJ]

Some of the things that Bethel has promoted like soaking on dead people's graves and such does bother me. And there have been serious child sexual abuse allegations against Hillsong pastor and I believe they are legit. Then, the Hillsong related church in New York where it's okay to sing "praises" to God naked on a stage ....and why doesn't anyone at the top of that organization condemn that??

But ....both of these churches have come out with amazing songs.

This is my conclusion ....at least in part. And it's based in my own.experience having come out of a cultic "Christian" church. There were sincere people there, but they were held captive in ways that they didn't break free of a cult leader who was over them. I can't say they aren't saved or that God never gave these sincere (but fearful) ones a song. I was one who left and praise God He gave me strength to do that even with much opposition and retaliation.

My thoughts are that God knows the hearts of each one in these churches. Some seem sincere ....some seem cooperative with a cultlike organization. Pray about the songs. As long as He approves the words, and you're singing them to Him ....I think it should be fine.

 

[DuckieLady]

Some of the things that Bethel has promoted like soaking on dead people's graves and such does bother me. And there have been serious child sexual abuse allegations against Hillsong pastor and I believe they are legit. Then, the Hillsong related church in New York where it's okay to sing "praises" to God naked on a stage ....and why doesn't anyone at the top of that organization condemn that??

But ....both of these churches have come out with amazing songs.

This is my conclusion ....at least in part. And it's based in my own.experience having come out of a cultic "Christian" church. There were sincere people there, but they were held captive in ways that they didn't break free of a cult leader who was over them. I can't say they aren't saved or that God never gave these sincere (but fearful) ones a song. I was one who left and praise God He gave me strength to do that even with much opposition and retaliation.

My thoughts are that God knows the hearts of each one in these churches. Some seem sincere ....some seem cooperative with a cultlike organization. Pray about the songs. As long as He approves the words, and you're singing them to Him ....I think it should be fine.

I knew about the grave soaking, but the nudity on stage?! WHAT. I am going to have to look up that mess. I have to admit right now, my favorite song has been Steffany Gretzinger - No One Ever Cared For Me Like Jesus, and it's meant an enormous amount to me. I think she is involved in Bethel, but I hope I'm wrong.

I was also involved in an occultic church growing up... actually, a few. The United Pentecostal. Years later, after an "experience", I tried claiming myself as an Apostolic Christian. I remember while I was having a mental breakdown, along with actual spiritual warfare, one UPCI member online tried to help me remove the "demons" screaming in my ear. He just kept saying "It's gone.. It's leaving." and telling me how he could feel it and then gave me a lecture about how I could never marry someone outside of the church and insisted I find someone quickly. Well, it didn't go away.

Fortunately after a couple of weeks of praying the demons away, I realized it was tinnitus (also causing temporary deafness) as a side effect of a new birth control I was using to regulate my hormones and I was probably in danger of having a stroke.

 

[farouk]

but the nudity on stage?! WHAT. ....

@FluffyYellowDuck Hadn't heard about that....odd...

 

[DuckieLady]

I do see something about the youth pastor being as undressed as "The Naked Cowboy" and undressed at the Women's Conference.

So weird. Now I remember when I was living in New York, my best friend just got back from NYC, and just had to show me the pictures of her with the naked cowboy (she was gushing) that she had her husband take. I thought that was disrespectful and uncomfortable, but this is a whole new level of weird.

 

[farouk]

I do see something about the youth pastor being as undressed as "The Naked Cowboy" and undressed at the Women's Conference.

So weird. Now I remember when I was living in New York, my best friend just got back from NYC, and just had to show me the pictures of her with the naked cowboy (she was gushing) that she had her husband take. I thought that was disrespectful and uncomfortable, but this is a whole new level of weird.

@FluffyYellowDuck Really? Weird... (I wondered if it was merely about someone miserable who was looking to complain about something and decided to complain about a young lady's crop top, or something...)

 

[DuckieLady]

@FluffyYellowDuck Really? Weird... (I wondered if it was merely about someone miserable who was looking to complain about something and decided to complain about a young lady's crop top, or something...)

Oh, no, this guy was down to his skivies behind the guitar to give "the illusion of nudity." There's no vomit emoji. Bummer.

so gross