Tongues

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Cooper

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I agree with you NB.
Another thing to consider, if the tongues benefit the one person speaking, how does it benefit them? The only benefit I see is they can tell people they speak in tongues, other than that it serves no purpose
The interpretation will either be a word of encouragement, teaching, or prophetic. Having heard many outpourings of the Spirit and their interpretation, it is a real blessing to the church. You can almost imagine it is Paul or one of the apostles speaking, but probably Jesus as the Holy Spirit.
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NayborBear

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I agree with you NB.
Another thing to consider, if the tongues benefit the one person speaking, how does it benefit them? The only benefit I see is they can tell people they speak in tongues, other than that it serves no purpose

Welp? As Paul pointed out? It is of little benefit when this is done in and during an assemblage of believers without an interpreter! Which can be rather disrupting.
 

NayborBear

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The interpretation will either be a word of encouragement, teaching, or prophetic. Having heard many outpourings of the Spirit and their interpretation, it is a real blessing to the church. You can almost imagine it is Paul or one of the apostles speaking, but probably Jesus as the Holy Spirit.
.

I'm not saying your wrong in your statement. But, there is a "lack of discernment", in not being able to tell from whence these "words of encouragement, teaching, or prophetic outpouring" are coming from.
And? This is so often the case, not only to those who are speaking these "words", but also more from those "hearing."
Luke 9:27
But I tell you of a truth, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God.
Hebrews 11:5
By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

Which brings us to this "Holy Priesthood" which Peter talks about In 1 Peter 2:5. Which also is mentioned here:
Psalm 110:
4 The Lord hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek.

Which does not occur unless, or until one goes through this:
Revelation 20:6
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

So? It's the confusion that is caused by the lack of discernment that causes this:
2 Thessalonians 2:4
Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.....Can you say spirit of antichrist?
 

jaybird

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The interpretation will either be a word of encouragement, teaching, or prophetic. Having heard many outpourings of the Spirit and their interpretation, it is a real blessing to the church. You can almost imagine it is Paul or one of the apostles speaking, but probably Jesus as the Holy Spirit.
.
Encouragement and teaching can be done in the common language.
Prophesy is a message from the Lord to a person designated as a prophet. Prophets don't need a spirit language, or there is no evidence of it in the bible.
 

jaybird

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Welp? As Paul pointed out? It is of little benefit when this is done in and during an assemblage of believers without an interpreter! Which can be rather disrupting.
I don't know what "welp" means?
I get what your saying that the tongues needs to benefit the group.
I am just adding to it, that if one claims that it benefits the individual, they can not show how it benefits other than "saying" it benefits. I can say I am the Duke of Chester, but it means nothing unless I really am the Duke of Chester.
 

Cooper

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With so many differing views, even among Christians, I am not surprised the Christian Church is in such disarray, even as it was the early Church.

Even though there is only one Bible and one God it seems everyone has gone their own way, and the Christian Church has become a tower of Babel with so many voices expressing a multitude of different teachings. It seems freewill that enables people to believe whatever they want according to their own inclination, is the one sure thing we can be certain of.

Satan must love freewill as he watches people tread their own freewill path to hell.
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Cooper

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Encouragement and teaching can be done in the common language.
Prophesy is a message from the Lord to a person designated as a prophet. Prophets don't need a spirit language, or there is no evidence of it in the bible.
The "common language" is the language of all, but there is only one truth. Those speaking the common tongue drown out the still small voice of the Holy Spirit.
.
 
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Cooper

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I'm not saying your wrong in your statement. But, there is a "lack of discernment", in not being able to tell from whence these "words of encouragement, teaching, or prophetic outpouring" are coming from.
And? This is so often the case, not only to those who are speaking these "words", but also more from those "hearing."
Luke 9:27
But I tell you of a truth, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God.
Hebrews 11:5
By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

Which brings us to this "Holy Priesthood" which Peter talks about In 1 Peter 2:5. Which also is mentioned here:
Psalm 110:
4 The Lord hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek.

Which does not occur unless, or until one goes through this:
Revelation 20:6
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

So? It's the confusion that is caused by the lack of discernment that causes this:
2 Thessalonians 2:4
Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.....Can you say spirit of antichrist?
So, beware the author of confusion.
.
 
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Cooper

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Encouragement and teaching can be done in the common language.
Prophesy is a message from the Lord to a person designated as a prophet. Prophets don't need a spirit language, or there is no evidence of it in the bible.
One Biblical language for one people. One spiritual language for many people worldwide.
.
 

NayborBear

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I don't know what "welp" means?
I get what your saying that the tongues needs to benefit the group.
I am just adding to it, that if one claims that it benefits the individual, they can not show how it benefits other than "saying" it benefits. I can say I am the Duke of Chester, but it means nothing unless I really am the Duke of Chester.

Welp? (I did it again, didn't I....lol)...I can understands now, how one could infer it like say an old dog speakin' to a young pup. But wasn't my intention. So, ya shouldn't takes it thatta way.
But? in another sense perhaps it wasn't me speaking at all. Perhaps, it was someone speaking through these fingers to the both of us? Or, whoever may happen upon this convo, that perhaps they should be treated as "mary's little lamb", as in "leave 'em alone, and they'll come home....wagging their tales behind 'em?"
IOW? We may be the both of us (even more then both of us....) of the body of Christ, not realizing that we actually needs each other in this "building up the Spiritual house" of this Holy Priesthood, in which we are called?
As we "press onwards to the mark of the High Calling of God" in unraveling the "mystery" that Paul put forth NOT concerning the "blindness in part" that is Israel. But, more so, what Paul means by "the fulness of the gentiles?"
But, then again? Even this which I type could be taken as just so much "gibberish", as those who come off in our ears as "gibberish."
 

NayborBear

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So, beware the author of confusion.
.

Indeed!
But as we read here? Our enemy isn't the only one who confounds!
Genesis 11:7
Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech.
 

jaybird

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The "common language" is the language of all, but there is only one truth. Those speaking the common tongue drown out the still small voice of the Holy Spirit.
.
I don't think so, Jesus spoke in the common language and was the Son of the Most High
 

Cooper

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Indeed!
But as we read here? Our enemy isn't the only one who confounds!
Genesis 11:7
Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech.
The Lord saw what these Godless people were doing and punished them by confounding their language.

Babel means confusion, and the inevitable result of anything man does, that leaves God out or is not according to God, ends in confusion. (Believers Bible.)
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Paul Christensen

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But that's basically one person with the spirit (claiming the spirit) saying yes and another with the spirit saying no. Do you see the problem?
The written Scriptures are the moderator. The Holy Spirit will always support the written Scriptures. But it will be the whole chapter, not just cherry picked verses out of it to support a personal prejudice.
 
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Paul Christensen

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I don't think they can be faked. Yet, I think the larger question should be "to what benefit?"
If the speaking in tongues benefits only the one, or ones speaking on the individual level? Inasmuch as it causes those ones to continue believing? Then, it would appear the Holy Spirit is doing that which it was sent to do.
It would then seem, the responsibility/duty/obligation of the earnestly coveting of the best gifts (1 Corinthians 12:31), would/should fall upon those that do the speaking in tongues. Especially, should the one/s speaking in tongues be asking the Lord of the Harvest to send forth more laborers into His harvest!(Matthew 9:38/Luke 10:2)
Of the which, is a 2-edged prayer/request/asking of! A?, for the unbelievers, and B?, and to me? (and others it would seem), more importantly? the best gifts!

So, for a surety? NONE of us believers want this:
Romans 11:
22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

In our coveting earnestly the best gifts? We should, as "lively stones" be doing these things!
1 Peter 2:5
Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable TO God BY Jesus Christ.

As far as I know? I myself, don't speak in tongues. Or? If I do? I don't know that I am!
Which begs the question of these best gifts.
Are these gifts also in an unknown tongue, or language?
The bottom line is that Paul taught that speaking in a way that everyone can understand what is being said is more appropriate in fellowship meetings than speaking in foreign languages that people cannot understand. When he uses the word "prophesy" he is including teaching, instruction, as well as prophetic utterances. His view of church meetings is people are gathered for fellowship and instruction (not for all the ceremonial fiddle faddle that take up most church programmed services).

Our church once had combined meetings with the Korean congregation that met in our church building. When the Korean pastor preached in Korean, it was great for the Koreans, but useless for our congregation. Most of the Koreans understood English so when our minister preached, it was just as encouraging for them as for us. It would have been better if there was an English interpreter working alongside the Korean preacher. So this is what Paul was saying, if someone speaks with a foreign language in church, there should be an interpreter so that everyone can understand what is being said.

This is the main point of 1 Corinthians 14, and Paul wrote it to deal with a specific issue that was happening in the Corinthian church. That is why he said that prophecy is the better gift for the fellowship meeting. He says, "I thank God I speak with tongues more than you all, however, when I come into a fellowship meeting, I would rather speak so that everyone can understand me. (my paraphrase).

So it is obvious that Paul spoke in tongues frequently, but not in the fellowship meetings. That is abundantly clear. He also said, "I would that you all spoke with tongues" and I would add but not when you fellowship together. He also said that when folk spoke in tongues, they gave thanks to God well. What he is saying is that when people speak in tongues they are praising God in the right way, but if it is done in the fellowship meetings, it is in the wrong place, because no one understands the language, so it is better to praise God in a language that everyone understands so they can add their "amen" to the praise.
 

jaybird

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Jesus sent the Comforter, the Holy Spirit. Those who deny the gifts of the Holy Spirit, deny the One God.

You might benefit from thinking it through.
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i never said Jesus didnt send the spirit. you are aware that spirit does not mean spirit language right?
lets go back to this one because im not sure you realize what you said.

The "common language" is the language of all, but there is only one truth. Those speaking the common tongue drown out the still small voice of the Holy Spirit.

Jesus spoke in Hebrew, His common language, please explain how Jesus drowns out the spirit by doing this.
 

jaybird

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The written Scriptures are the moderator. The Holy Spirit will always support the written Scriptures. But it will be the whole chapter, not just cherry picked verses out of it to support a personal prejudice.

ok but this is not what i am talking about. i asked how do you spot someone doing false tongues. he said the spirit. this may work for the individual, for me, for you, but it does not work for me to command you i cant claim something is true because the spirit tells me because the next guy will come along and claim its false and say the spirit told him. claiming the spirit does not prove anything. does this make sense.
Jesus was the Christ, Son of the Most High, how do we know, did Jesus say because the Father says so, no, Jesus went out and proved by divine miracles exactly who He was.
 

Paul Christensen

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I agree with you NB.
Another thing to consider, if the tongues benefit the one person speaking, how does it benefit them? The only benefit I see is they can tell people they speak in tongues, other than that it serves no purpose
It's like any skill that one has never learned. If the skill is not used, it is of no purpose to the person. Before I learned to play the guitar, the instrument was of no use to me, and there was no purpose in it for me. But when I learned to play it 53 years ago, it has served a very useful purpose and has been a blessing to me and others.

The Scripture says that when a person speaks in tongues they build themselves up. Jude expresses it further when he says that when we pray in the Spirit, we build ourselves up in our most holy faith. But if Paul is saying that speaking in tongues is not recommended in fellowship meetings where no one is built up except the individual himself, then, because he fully supports speaking in tongues, then the building up takes place in the individual's private prayer times. But of course, if the person cannot speak in tongues, he will never be built up in that way. He would have to depend on his own limited form of expression.

Hearing others speaking in tongues in a fellowship service would serve no purpose for the listeners because they wouldn't understand what is being spoken. No surprises there. That is why Paul recommended that tongues not be spoken in fellowship meetings. But he never prohibited speaking in tongues to God during private prayer when others were not around to hear him.

Whether a purpose is served by speaking in tongues, has to be determine by the person who is doing the speaking, not by some observer who knows little or nothing about the gift and how it affects the person using it. It's like me watching a musician playing the Russian Balalaika. It might serve a purpose for the musician, but not much for me because I can't play one, and can't see how one can get much out of playing a three stringed instrument.
 
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Paul Christensen

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ok but this is not what i am talking about. i asked how do you spot someone doing false tongues. he said the spirit. this may work for the individual, for me, for you, but it does not work for me to command you i cant claim something is true because the spirit tells me because the next guy will come along and claim its false and say the spirit told him. claiming the spirit does not prove anything. does this make sense.
Jesus was the Christ, Son of the Most High, how do we know, did Jesus say because the Father says so, no, Jesus went out and proved by divine miracles exactly who He was.
If I'm in a fellowship meeting, I wouldn't be listening to others if they were speaking in tongues, because what they were speaking would have no meaning for me at all. And Paul did not recommend speaking in tongues during fellowship meetings without an interpreter, so it would be understandable that the speech would sound like gibberish, just the same as me hearing Hindi or Mandarin speakers as I travelled to work on the bus. So just because a language sounds like babbling gibberish doesn't mean that it is not an understandable language. Paul is quite definite when he says that speaking in tongues in a fellowship meeting is speaking into the air, because it would have no purpose for the group as a whole. But that doesn't mean that the tongues language is entirely meaningless, because the speaking is speaking to God, who understands it. It is only meaningless to the group because no one in the group understands it.

But if a person is speaking to God in tongues whether in the fellowship meeting or in private prayer, to say it has no purpose at all, is to assert that it has no purpose for the Lord who hears and understands it. I wouldn't be so arrogant as to make that assertion.