Tongues

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Paul Christensen

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a linguist went to a meeting and jumped up been said something in another language. Someone else jumped up and translated it, not even close to what he has said. Tongues are always given for a purpose, not what you see going down in a Pentecostal meeting.
I've heard that one before. The linguist was a liar and a deceiver in that he did not declare his intention when he did what he did. The person who interpreted the language did it in good faith, not knowing that the linguist was deceiving the people. One day, that linguist will have to stand before the judgment seat of Christ and give an account of why he went into a fellowship meeting and deliberately deceived the people to prove his own prejudice against the gift of tongues. If you are showing here that you support what the linguist did, then you are a party to his deception and lying behaviour, and you might find yourself feeling very uncomfortable when you get to stand before Christ at His judgment seat.
 

Paul Christensen

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no he was testing and they failed. And the person who interpreted lied.
Can you provide a citation for the event? At present it sounds like a fictional horror story to fool people into thinking it actually happened. If you are making up a story and presenting it as something that actually happened, then who is the liar?

If it did really happen, then if the linguist did not identify himself as such, and declared what he was doing to the people, then he was not only being deceptive, but also blaspheming God by invading a church worship time with a fake utterance. The person who interpreted would only have been lying if he knew what was going on and participated in the deception. If the interpretation was consistent with Scripture then the prophecy itself was true, even if the person giving it was deceived into thinking he was interpreting the language.
 

NayborBear

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With so many differing views, even among Christians, I am not surprised the Christian Church is in such disarray, even as it was the early Church.

Even though there is only one Bible and one God it seems everyone has gone their own way, and the Christian Church has become a tower of Babel with so many voices expressing a multitude of different teachings. It seems freewill that enables people to believe whatever they want according to their own inclination, is the one sure thing we can be certain of.

Satan must love freewill as he watches people tread their own freewill path to hell.
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It this what you're saying?
Matthew 24:
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
 

NayborBear

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The written Scriptures are the moderator. The Holy Spirit will always support the written Scriptures. But it will be the whole chapter, not just cherry picked verses out of it to support a personal prejudice.

Revelation 10:10
And I took the little book out of the angel's hand, and ate it up; and it was in my mouth sweet as honey: and as soon as I had eaten it, my belly was bitter.
Ya know a lot can be said concerning this little book. Because there's a lot more to HIStory apart from the little book.
For the sake of argument, let's say this little book is the Bible. When you first start reading it? It tastes sweet as honey!
But then, when all of that little book "hits the belly" and starts getting broken down (digested)?
1 Peter 2:
2 As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:
3 If so be ye have tasted that the Lord is gracious. Sweet as honey.
Here's where it doesn't "digest" so well!
5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable TO God BY Jesus Christ.
 

NayborBear

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Can you provide a citation for the event? At present it sounds like a fictional horror story to fool people into thinking it actually happened. If you are making up a story and presenting it as something that actually happened, then who is the liar?

If it did really happen, then if the linguist did not identify himself as such, and declared what he was doing to the people, then he was not only being deceptive, but also blaspheming God by invading a church worship time with a fake utterance. The person who interpreted would only have been lying if he knew what was going on and participated in the deception. If the interpretation was consistent with Scripture then the prophecy itself was true, even if the person giving it was deceived into thinking he was interpreting the language.

Yeah? There's a whole lotta "salesmen" out there pushin':
 

NayborBear

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In all my years of associating with Pentecostals, I have never seen or experienced what you have described. The Pentecostal movement in New Zealand must be entirely different to what you have experienced. All I have seen are groups of people who just enjoy and have fun worshiping the Lord and hearing God's Word preached. I have never heard a sermon concentrating on the gift of tongues among all the faith building, Gospel and Scripture based sermons I have heard.

Of course every church has its lunatic fringe, Pentecostal and Evangelical. But it seems that the United States is a pretty mixed up place at present with the lunatic fringe being prominent in both churches and general society.

I guess this takes this convo back to the 1rst verse of this song put forth from Assemblies of God, eh?
2nd verse? Same as the first! Could be better? Prolly get worse! :(
 

NayborBear

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ERROR - Soundness of doctrine does NOT come out from forming opinions but from every word of God.

Take this thread for example, the reason so many are confused about tongues is because none bother to examine the meaning of what it is, reason why God gave this phenomenon to the church of Corinth only, and what was God's purpose?

Reminds me when Jesus came to earth to the Nation of Israel and told them He was the Messiah and no one believed Him, just as no one believes a true believer when he comes with the truth!.

The truth of 1 Corinthians Chapter 14 is this:... and, READ MY LIPS!

Note that the Bible was not yet complete when Paul, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, wrote 1 Corinthians 14, BECAUSE God still had additional revelation (verse 6) for mankind, by giving the gift of a heavenly language called tongues to an individual in a church setting for edification, and to another the gift of interpretation. And, if no interpreter, the one who received the information from God is to remain silent.

Paul however; says not to forbid to speak in tongues, but continued to say, it is better to speak five words that the church may be edified than speak ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.

The above is a very short explanation or a guide if you will. The rest of the chapter is self explanatory but if anyone is still confused then let us reason together.

BTW, speaking in tongues is impossible to day as the Bible is closed and complete!

To God Be The Glory

There were even more writings then just Paul's, before during and after Paul, there were "writings!"

And it wasn't until some 300 years afterwards, when some men decided what should be put in their "canon", and what gets left behind!

I'm not saying the records included in their canon is wrong, bad, or othertawise!
What I will say is todays Bible is incomplete!
 

Enoch111

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What I will say is todays Bible is incomplete!
And you really believe that God would allow an incomplete Bible to be circulated for about 2,000 years? Especially when He had a complete Hebrew Tanakh for Christ and the apostles?

What we have in the Protestant bibles is the complete canon of Scripture. The books which were excluded were excluded for good reasons.
 
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NayborBear

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And you really believe that God would allow an incomplete Bible to be circulated for about 2,000 years? Especially when He had a complete Hebrew Tanakh for Christ and the apostles?

What we have in the Protestant bibles is the complete canon of Scripture. The books which were excluded were excluded for good reasons.

I'll just take that with as many grains of salt warranted from one with the handle of just 1 of the excluded books has to offer concerning today's Bible. :rolleyes:
 

CoreIssue

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Can you provide a citation for the event? At present it sounds like a fictional horror story to fool people into thinking it actually happened. If you are making up a story and presenting it as something that actually happened, then who is the liar?

If it did really happen, then if the linguist did not identify himself as such, and declared what he was doing to the people, then he was not only being deceptive, but also blaspheming God by invading a church worship time with a fake utterance. The person who interpreted would only have been lying if he knew what was going on and participated in the deception. If the interpretation was consistent with Scripture then the prophecy itself was true, even if the person giving it was deceived into thinking he was interpreting the language.
I listen to him on the John Ankerberg Show. He held the degree in languages. So not a fraud. He spoken a language he was fluent in. So not a liar.

He went to that church because it was known to be pulling stunts like this.

In the capacity I was serving in that the time I was invited to a Pentecostal church as a special guest.

They prayed in tongues over me, laid on hands and even had a woman who was known for slain in the spirit, a totally non-biblical performance.
 

Cooper

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It this what you're saying?
Matthew 24:
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
The passage you posted, and indeed the whole chapter, most certainly applies to the current situation whereby false teachers wherever they are, can spread their pernicious ideology across the world via the internet, without leaving their armchair. Facebook being a case in point.

In the post you mention I was trying to make two points. The first point is that freewill is proven when we see how easily people are manipulated by advertising, the media and the internet etc. Matthew 24 warns us about this. In a nutshell, the message is to keep our eyes firmly fixed on Jesus. Those who deny freewill like the OSAS people are on to a looser when they try to deny it, so why allow it to be taught on the CHRISTIAN forums?

This brings me to my second point, whereby the Christian forums are an obvious target for false teachers, who come, so they may deceive. They are obviously well versed in Christianity as they have all their counter arguments in neat array. Debating with them is like casting pearls before swine, so why give them the opportunity to sully the Gospel of Jesus Christ? My aim is to glorify God and bring honour and glory to His name, instead of which, I find myself defending Him against those who oppose the Saviour of the World as only the One God in heaven and earth can do.

Overall, I ask myself, why give the adversary a ready-made platform? Should we not be saying, "get thee behind me Satan?" I certainly do not want the presence of the devil in my home and that is a fact.
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Enoch111

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I'll just take that with as many grains of salt warranted from one with the handle of just 1 of the excluded books has to offer concerning today's Bible.
And you think the Holy Spirit had nothing to do with the exclusion and inclusion of books?
 

NayborBear

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The passage you posted, and indeed the whole chapter, most certainly applies to the current situation whereby false teachers wherever they are, can spread their pernicious ideology across the world via the internet, Facebook being a case in point, without leaving their armchair.

In the post you mention I was trying to make two points. The first point is that freewill is proven when we see how easily people are manipulated by advertising, the media and the internet etc. Matthew 24 warns us about this. In a nutshell, the message is to keep our eyes firmly fixed on Jesus. Those who deny freewill like the OSAS people are on to a looser when they try to deny freewill, so why allow it to be taught?

This brings me to my second point, whereby the Christian forums are an obvious target for false teachers, who come so that they may deceive. They are obviously well versed in Christianity as they have all their counter arguments in neat array. Debating with them is like casting pearls before swine, so why give them the opportunity to sully the Gospel of Jesus Christ. My aim is to glorify God and bring honour to His name, instead of which, I find myself defending Him against those who oppose the Saviour of the World, as only the One God in heaven and earth can do.

Overall, I ask myself, why give the adversary a ready-made platform? Should we not be saying, "get thee behind me Satan?" I certainly do not want the presence of the devil in my home and that is a fact.
.

Micah 3:11
The heads thereof judge for reward, and the priests thereof teach for hire, and the prophets thereof divine for money: yet will they lean upon the Lord, and say, Is not the Lord among us? none evil can come upon us.
And, then when evil, sickness, or calamity, does come upon them? They just don't, can't understand why. And are so resistant to any teaching that would cause them in making spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
Keeping one's eye firmly affixed to Christ only goes so far! Because sooner, or later, Our Heavenly Father gets tired of Jesus confessing them to Him, and nothing happens! They won't go unto the Him who sent Christ to this earth to show us the way back to God!
It would seem they will only go as far as they can rationalize.
And God said "lean not on your own understanding"...."Cuz you ain't gonna understands it!"
Although Nimrod died a long time ago?
The reason/s for his building never did!
1 Corinthians 10:22
Do we provoke the Lord to jealousy? are we stronger than he?
This "perpetrator's" name has changed over the millennia! But, his title hasn't! He who deceived the WHOLE world!
 
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JunChosen

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There were even more writings then just Paul's, before during and after Paul, there were "writings!"

And it wasn't until some 300 years afterwards, when some men decided what should be put in their "canon", and what gets left behind!

I'm not saying the records included in their canon is wrong, bad, or othertawise!
What I will say is todays Bible is incomplete!

If indeed there are more writings about tongues before Paul's writings, please furnish us with Scripture references.

I beg to differ. God is the Author of the Bible and it is He who put it all together, not man!
2 Peter 1:21.

And here lies the error of your ways:

The Bible is complete according to Revelation 22:18-19. And, the "book" mentioned is not the book of Revelation rather it is the Bible, BECAUSE the book of Revelation cannot stand alone apart from the Bible.

To God Be The Glory
 

NayborBear

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If indeed there are more writings about tongues before Paul's writings, please furnish us with Scripture references.

I beg to differ. God is the Author of the Bible and it is He who put it all together, not man!
2 Peter 1:21.

And here lies the error of your ways:

The Bible is complete according to Revelation 22:18-19. And, the "book" mentioned is not the book of Revelation rather it is the Bible, BECAUSE the book of Revelation cannot stand alone apart from the Bible.

To God Be The Glory

I don't think I said there were more "books/letters/writings" that had been left out concerning tongues.
I merely said there are more records of writings done during Paul's days, as well as in the O.T. that were "cut out" from the canon.
Often referred to as "Apocryphal Books."
 

Cooper

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Micah 3:11
The heads thereof judge for reward, and the priests thereof teach for hire, and the prophets thereof divine for money: yet will they lean upon the Lord, and say, Is not the Lord among us? none evil can come upon us.
And, then when evil, sickness, or calamity, does come upon them? They just don't, can't understand why. And are so resistant to any teaching that would cause them in making spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
Keeping one's eye firmly affixed to Christ only goes so far! Because sooner, or later, Our Heavenly Father gets tired of Jesus confessing them to Him, and nothing happens! They won't go unto the Him who sent Christ to this earth to show us the way back to God!
It would seem they will only go as far as they can rationalize.
And God said "lean not on your own understanding"...."Cuz you ain't gonna understands it!"
Although Nimrod died a long time ago?
The reason/s for his building never did!
1 Corinthians 10:22
Do we provoke the Lord to jealousy? are we stronger than he?
This "perpetrator's" name has changed over the millennia! But, his title hasn't! He who deceived the WHOLE world!
Thank you for posting from Micah chapter three. We read in the New Testament of one house being built on shifting sand and another house built on the Rock Christ Jesus. The rulers and prophets in Micah three remind me of all those false teachers who lead people astray. God’s message to them and all those like them is that the sun will go down on them and their day will end. They will cover their faces in shame and admit that their messages were not from God. They took the name of the Lord in vain saying, “The LORD is among us, is he not? Nothing bad can possibly happen to us!”

This is God’s message to you false teachers: “The night will close about you and cut off all your visions; darkness will cover you with never a word from God. The sun will go down upon you, and your day will end. Then at last you will cover your faces in shame and admit that your messages were not from God. It is because of you that Jerusalem will be plowed like a field and become a heap of rubble.” (The Living Bible)

The prophecy was fulfilled in the destruction of Jerusalem, and so it is with all those who lead others astray when they say, "Nothing bad can possibly happen to us! We are God's elect and are always saved."

For the time is coming (has come) when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths.
2 Timothy 4:3-4
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