Tribulation Saints? A Contradiction

[Davy]

I guess that was: you make up your own rules and judge others by those rules.

More of your own rules: 777 and 666.

It is the leaven doctrines of men that make up their own doctrine and rules, not me. I stick to what God's written Word says, and that's what ticks those fakes off, because God's Word straight up prevents their forming their stupid idiotic leaven doctrines that prevents new babes in Christ from understanding God Himself in His Own Word.

And one of those ideas by those fakes is to push a false pre-trib rapture doctrine when Jesus was emphatic about His coming to gather His saints immediately after... the tribulation. Their so-called 'tribulation saints' idea is just another piece of their dung piled on top of their false pre-trib rapture theories.

 

[Timtofly]

I accept what scripture holds true. Their words (the early church) are as good as any commentary if not more so because they lived when the true doctrine was being past down. I don’t automatically discount them as in error as you do. They are men that loved our Lord, lived their lives for him and some, like Polycarp, were martyrs for him. Your comment is no different then saying if you accept everything your Pastor says and you don’t search it out, your guilty of taking in truth and error Or the Bible’s publisher that gives their own commentary on things.
Good try though to deflect, but I’m kicking the ball back.

I am not deflecting. I simply said show me what they said, and you refused to quote anything they said. You are claiming they have no error whatsoever. For all the time you have spent avoiding giving even one quote, you may have simply quoted them instead.

 

[Timtofly]

It is the leaven doctrines of men that make up their own doctrine and rules, not me. I stick to what God's written Word says, and that's what ticks those fakes off, because God's Word straight up prevents their forming their stupid idiotic leaven doctrines that prevents new babes in Christ from understanding God Himself in His Own Word.

And one of those ideas by those fakes is to push a false pre-trib rapture doctrine when Jesus was emphatic about His coming to gather His saints immediately after... the tribulation. Their so-called 'tribulation saints' idea is just another piece of their dung piled on top of their false pre-trib rapture theories.

Yet you seem to agree that every church father, and all human theology is without errors. The one issue you have is two words: pre-trib. Well the second coming was not prior to the last 1992 years of tribulation on the church, so you have a point.

 

[Davy]

Yet you seem to agree that every church father, and all human theology is without errors.

Good thing you said "seem", because I NEVER said any such things. It is the 1st Century Church fathers that kept God's Word as written, with later centuries falling away from the written Word in stages, little by little. And by the 1830's, in Great Britain, certain men like Edward Irving and John Nelson Darby, started pushing a FALSE DOCTRINE called a Pre-tribulational Rapture. Darby even at one early time used the phrase "secret rapture" to describe it! After those snakes, other snakes with more venom sprang up. But those are really NO PROBLEM for Christ's serious disciples who discipline theirselves in His Word as written! We easily know those are fakes, simply by keeping Christ's Word.

And if those 1830s fakes weren't enough, more fakes piled dung upon dung with more... theories loosely based... on the false pre-trib rapture theory, with doctrines like Hyper-Dispensationalism which treats Apostle Paul's Epistles ONLY as relevant to Christ's Church!

The faithful Church doesn't have to worry about those fakes actually, because The LORD even showed in Ezekiel 13 that He is against... those who hunt the souls to teach His people to 'fly'. God will destroy those fakes like rain washing away an untempered wall whose plaster just won't setup and harden.

 

[No Pre-TB]

I am not deflecting. I simply said show me what they said, and you refused to quote anything they said. You are claiming they have no error whatsoever. For all the time you have spent avoiding giving even one quote, you may have simply quoted them instead.

Fine. I will post 1 and if you assume it's in error, I will assume you to think all the rest of anyone's sayings are in error.

Irenaeus (c.120–c.202) 2nd Bishop of Lyon in France. Taught by Polycarp, Bishop of Smyrna, hearer of John the apostle

And therefore, when in the end the Church shall be suddenly caught up from this, it is said, “There shall be tribulation such as has not been since the beginning, neither shall be.” For this is the last contest of the righteous, in which, when they overcome they are crowned with incorruption.

He stated that the last contest of the Church was to overcome "there shall be tribulation such as has not been since". Thus, he is saying we go through the great tribulation and our change doesnt happen till after it. And he specifies,

And they [the ten kings who shall arise] shall lay Babylon waste, and burn her with fire, and shall give their kingdom to the beast, and put the Church to flight. (Against Heresies, V, 26, 1)

He believed the church to still be here when Babylon is destroyed and the church would face persecution. And then he said,

For all these and other words were unquestionably spoken in reference to the resurrection of the just, which takes place after the coming of Antichrist . . . . nd [with respect to] those whom the Lord shall find in the flesh, awaiting Him from heaven, and who have suffered tribulation, as well as escaped the hands of the Wicked one. (Against Heresies, V, 35, 1)

When does the resurrection take place? After the coming of Antichrist. Which we find with a plain reading in 2 Thess 2:1-3

 

[GEN2REV]

The order and arrangement of the Revelation Seals, Trumpets, and Vials is by their 'event type', not by the order John was shown them, or wrote them down.

If the Bible student tries to place the events of the Seals, Trumpets, and Vials in the exact order they are written, it will only lead to confusion.

I think I've come to this same conclusion and it explains a lot.

 

[Timtofly]

Fine. I will post 1 and if you assume it's in error, I will assume you to think all the rest of anyone's sayings are in error.

Irenaeus (c.120–c.202) 2nd Bishop of Lyon in France. Taught by Polycarp, Bishop of Smyrna, hearer of John the apostle

And therefore, when in the end the Church shall be suddenly caught up from this, it is said, “There shall be tribulation such as has not been since the beginning, neither shall be.” For this is the last contest of the righteous, in which, when they overcome they are crowned with incorruption.

He stated that the last contest of the Church was to overcome "there shall be tribulation such as has not been since". Thus, he is saying we go through the great tribulation and our change doesnt happen till after it. And he specifies,

The same is taught today. Tell me though. The church being caught up is still a separate point even in this quote. Are there rewards for any righteous who endure tribulation? Of course. You would not take away the rewards of those during the dark ages who were martyred? There were 7 church types written about.

You can use this quote to just repeat what we already know. Still not very convincing whether or not Irenaeus is saying the church is caught up, before or after, a great time of tribulation. John in Revelation mentioned no test for the church between chapters 4 and 22. Life is always a test. But the greatest trouble was for Jacob, not the church. Some trials have been greater than others for the church.

And they [the ten kings who shall arise] shall lay Babylon waste, and burn her with fire, and shall give their kingdom to the beast, and put the Church to flight. (Against Heresies, V, 26, )

He believed the church to still be here when Babylon is destroyed and the church would face persecution. And then he said,

He interprets like you do. Still no verse to back up his point. No verse to back up your point. I have Scripture, neither of you have used. It does not say "church". Revelation 13:5-7

"And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months. And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven. And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations."

I don't think these saints were killed. They are also not the church. Irenaeus says they were put to flight. He did not say they were killed either. So do you claim they were killed and received a reward? Also he is getting ahead of himself because Babylon is destroyed at the end of the 42 months. Not at the beginning.

I think those saints are only the 144k who were sealed in Revelation 7, in opposition to the church already glorified and in Paradise at the 6th Seal. We can see the 144k are sealed on earth at the 6th Seal. They are on earth until the 7th Trumpet. Then "overcome" , but not killed. Put to flight, or just retreated to Mt. Zion?

They are not here during Satan's 42 months of desolation. The church is not either. The church was caught up at the 6th Seal. The 144k are sealed on earth and go through the Trumpets and Thunders and leave for Mt. Zion at the 7th Trumpet. Or not. If they do not have to flee nor retreat, then those 42 months are not given to Satan, the FP, nor the beast. Still, the 7th Trumpet is a different time than the 6th Seal.

For all these and other words were unquestionably spoken in reference to the resurrection of the just, which takes place after the coming of Antichrist . . . . nd [with respect to] those whom the Lord shall find in the flesh, awaiting Him from heaven, and who have suffered tribulation, as well as escaped the hands of the Wicked one. (Against Heresies, V, 35, 1)

When does the resurrection take place? After the coming of Antichrist. Which we find with a plain reading in 2 Thess 2:1-3

It seems some have been looking for the AC for a long time. Do you think the Reformation revealed this AC? So no one has the answer. Still just guessing that a resurrection is connected to an AC.

Since you left out any quote that referenced Scripture, you just added your own opinion and text from 2 Thessalonians 2:1-3. So either you and Irenaeus are ignoring Revelation are just not comparing Scripture with Scripture. Many today have gotten past Irenaeus, and at least quote Revelation 11:18.

"And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth."

That is usually the point brought up when trying to associate an AC with a resurrection. At least in the timing of things. They still fall short as the AC is still not introduced for another 2 chapters.

 

[No Pre-TB]

The same is taught today. Tell me though. The church being caught up is still a separate point even in this quote. Are there rewards for any righteous who endure tribulation? Of course. You would not take away the rewards of those during the dark ages who were martyred? There were 7 church types written about.

You can use this quote to just repeat what we already know. Still not very convincing whether or not Irenaeus is saying the church is caught up, before or after, a great time of tribulation. John in Revelation mentioned no test for the church between chapters 4 and 22. Life is always a test. But the greatest trouble was for Jacob, not the church. Some trials have been greater than others for the church.



He interprets like you do. Still no verse to back up his point. No verse to back up your point. I have Scripture, neither of you have used. It does not say "church". Revelation 13:5-7

"And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months. And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven. And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations."

I don't think these saints were killed. They are also not the church. Irenaeus says they were put to flight. He did not say they were killed either. So do you claim they were killed and received a reward? Also he is getting ahead of himself because Babylon is destroyed at the end of the 42 months. Not at the beginning.

I think those saints are only the 144k who were sealed in Revelation 7, in opposition to the church already glorified and in Paradise at the 6th Seal. We can see the 144k are sealed on earth at the 6th Seal. They are on earth until the 7th Trumpet. Then "overcome" , but not killed. Put to flight, or just retreated to Mt. Zion?

They are not here during Satan's 42 months of desolation. The church is not either. The church was caught up at the 6th Seal. The 144k are sealed on earth and go through the Trumpets and Thunders and leave for Mt. Zion at the 7th Trumpet. Or not. If they do not have to flee nor retreat, then those 42 months are not given to Satan, the FP, nor the beast. Still, the 7th Trumpet is a different time than the 6th Seal.



It seems some have been looking for the AC for a long time. Do you think the Reformation revealed this AC? So no one has the answer. Still just guessing that a resurrection is connected to an AC.

Since you left out any quote that referenced Scripture, you just added your own opinion and text from 2 Thessalonians 2:1-3. So either you and Irenaeus are ignoring Revelation are just not comparing Scripture with Scripture. Many today have gotten past Irenaeus, and at least quote Revelation 11:18.

"And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth."

That is usually the point brought up when trying to associate an AC with a resurrection. At least in the timing of things. They still fall short as the AC is still not introduced for another 2 chapters.

Obviously, you didn’t read. And you’re right, I did leave a verse. Why do I need to? Do you need me to instruct you? If so, we can go to a private room and if you’re willing to listen, I’ll do so. Otherwise, you should study yourself and ask the spirit to guide you. You asked for a quote, I provided it with Irenaeus. He believed that the church would see Babylon destroyed, we’d go thru great tribulation and that we’d be changed to immortality after the man of sin comes. All of this is not Pre-TB. Neither was 99% of the early church for the first 400 years. You are to suffer for him, take up our cross for him, if need be..die for him otherwise you arnt worthy for the kingdom.

 

[ewq1938]

"And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months. And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven. And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations."

I don't think these saints were killed. They are also not the church.

Most are killed and they are the church.

Rev 6:11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

Rev 11:7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
Rev 11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
Rev 11:9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

 

[Timtofly]

Obviously, you didn’t read. And you’re right, I did leave a verse. Why do I need to? Do you need me to instruct you? If so, we can go to a private room and if you’re willing to listen, I’ll do so. Otherwise, you should study yourself and ask the spirit to guide you. You asked for a quote, I provided it with Irenaeus. He believed that the church would see Babylon destroyed, we’d go thru great tribulation and that we’d be changed to immortality after the man of sin comes. All of this is not Pre-TB. Neither was 99% of the early church for the first 400 years. You are to suffer for him, take up our cross for him, if need be..die for him otherwise you arnt worthy for the kingdom.

Just because you and Irenaeus quote Scripture the same way does not prove your point. Still not convinced about how you think the 6th Seal is not the Second Coming and rapture.

99% of the church has suffered great tribulation. Of course the Second Coming is after all that. You seem to be trading all martyrdom and all antichrist, for what you call one last and greatest test. While Irenaeus and you wait for a single AC and a single test, the church has had many antichrist and many tests.

The time of greatest trouble was for Israel. While the church would face many antichrist and many tribulations, and many have earned a reward, no where in Scripture does God transfer Jacob's trouble onto the church. Even the OD never states the church would shoulder Jacob's trouble. What Irenaeus did prove is that Preterist are wrong, and Jacob's trouble was not in the first century. Where Irenaeus is wrong is that he thought the church would take Jacob's place, after the Second Coming. That is, if that is, what you claim Irenaeus is "trying to say". I don't see Irenaeus as being as well defined as your attempt, even though you think Irenaeus supports your point of view. Irenaeus lived before a time when the church saw even greater tribulation than the first century produced. Because that tribulation came from an apostate church instead of a jealous Israel.

 

[Timtofly]

Most are killed and they are the church.

Rev 6:11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

Rev 11:7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
Rev 11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
Rev 11:9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

What makes them the church? They are named in the Lamb's book of life? That would be every one from Abel to those beheaded instead of receiving the mark. What makes them the church? They accepted the Atonement by faith before or after the Cross? Did Abel accept the Atonement of the Cross by faith? Hebrews 11:4

"By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh."

 

[ewq1938]

What makes them the church?

All saved Christians are the church.

 

[Timtofly]

All saved Christians are the church.

Then you agree, Abel was a saved Christian?

 

[ewq1938]

Then you agree, Abel was a saved Christian?

He became one when he learned of Christ.

 

[Davy]

Then you agree, Abel was a saved Christian?

Yep!! Because the word Christian simply means a 'follower of Christ'! So can you say Abel, or any of the Old Testament saints won't be saved just because Jesus didn't die on the cross in their time? You really don't know how The Gospel was also preached to Abraham, do you?

Heb 4:2
2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
KJV

The above "them" is about the unbelievers at the time of Moses and the children of Israel in the wilderness. That's why God made them trek through the wilderness for 40 years until that unbelieving generation died out.


1 Peter 4:5-6
5 Who shall give account to Him That is ready to judge the quick and the dead.
6 For, for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.
KJV

Could that mean at Christ's resurrection per 1 Peter 3, that He preached The Gospel to Abel too? YEP! Thus you really show you don't know how far reaching The Gospel of Jesus Christ is according to God's written Word.


John 8:56-58
56 "Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day: and he saw it, and was glad."
57 Then said the Jews unto Him, "Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast Thou seen Abraham?"
58 Jesus said unto them, "Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am."
KJV

The "I AM THAT I AM" is one God's sacred names. Right there, Lord Jesus said He is GOD (which is why in the next verse it shows the unbelieving Jews tried to stone Him for saying that). Jesus appeared to Abraham in Genesis 18. Jesus also was the Melchizedek that met Abraham and offered Abraham "bread and wine", a direct link to The Gospel regarding Christ's future crucifixion and resurrection. Even the Psalms 22 Chapter written through king David proclaimed events of Christ's crucifixion about a thousand years prior to it happening.

 

[No Pre-TB]

Just because you and Irenaeus quote Scripture the same way does not prove your point. Still not convinced about how you think the 6th Seal is not the Second Coming and rapture.

99% of the church has suffered great tribulation. Of course the Second Coming is after all that. You seem to be trading all martyrdom and all antichrist, for what you call one last and greatest test. While Irenaeus and you wait for a single AC and a single test, the church has had many antichrist and many tests.

The time of greatest trouble was for Israel. While the church would face many antichrist and many tribulations, and many have earned a reward, no where in Scripture does God transfer Jacob's trouble onto the church. Even the OD never states the church would shoulder Jacob's trouble. What Irenaeus did prove is that Preterist are wrong, and Jacob's trouble was not in the first century. Where Irenaeus is wrong is that he thought the church would take Jacob's place, after the Second Coming. That is, if that is, what you claim Irenaeus is "trying to say". I don't see Irenaeus as being as well defined as your attempt, even though you think Irenaeus supports your point of view. Irenaeus lived before a time when the church saw even greater tribulation than the first century produced. Because that tribulation came from an apostate church instead of a jealous Israel.

I think your failure to recognize the church is the true Israel, the sons of God and the heirs to the promise is your stumbling block in eschatology. Israel according to the flesh are not the sons of God and will not receive the promises. And there is no partition to separate Christians from believing Jews. We are the same body and the same tree. The future AC and times of trouble are about the world and everyone in it. It’s not all about Israel according to the flesh. Because Christ will destroy the statue and set up his kingdom and none of that has to do with punishing unbelieving Jews for the 100th time. Their house was left desolate and Christ told them they would not see him again till they say blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord. Till that happens, they are out of the way and left alone as a branch broken off till the fullness of the nations come in. A stumbling block indeed!

 

[Timtofly]

Their house was left desolate and Christ told them they would not see him again till they say blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord. Till that happens, they are out of the way and left alone as a branch broken off till the fullness of the nations come in. A stumbling block indeed!

You have the past down, it seems. What happens after they say, blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord? What happens after they see Him again?

 

[Dave Watchman]

Revelation 20:6KJV
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

I know this part. But you left out this:

"But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. - Revelation 20:5​

The main reason that the rest of the dead can't live until the thousand years are finished, is because, while they are still asleep, we will be working, reining, WITH Christ in determining with how many stripes they will suffer with on Judgment day. Some will be beaten with few, some with many.

There Will Be No 1,000 Year Millennial Kingdom Upon This Earth,

I agree.

It's like what the old bartender said at closing time: "You might not have to go Home, but you can't stay here.

I'll tell you the Truth, Truth.

I promise.

The thousand years are literal time, there's no way around it, but we spend that time reigning WITH Christ in heaven.

All of the prophetic time periods are real, there's no such thing as symbolic "time".

You've got to go with Revelation.

Revelation is hot off the press.

We are going to do the Pauline phase of the Judgment process with Jesus in heaven. Or do you not know that the saints will judge the world.

"Or do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if the world is to be judged by you, are you incompetent to try trivial cases? Do you not know that we are to judge angels? - 1 Corinthians 6:2-3​

Jesus already judged the dead. But we, the saints, will participate in another component of that process, which will also include the judgment of the un-holy angels. The only time that all the eyes of the saints are open, is at the start of the 1000 years of Revelation 20.

The other thing is that the planet will be wrecked by the events surrounding the second coming. The earth will be defiled, and will vomit out it's inhabitants. The earth will enjoy it's rest from sin all of the time that we are gone.

Keep in mind that at the second coming, the Father will visit too.

“Fall on us and hide us from the face of Him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! - Revelation 6:16​

Remember how God dwells in unapproachable light? The planet will need to cool off from sin, before the Father can come here. I'm sure His very close proximity alone would cause every island and mountain to move out of place.

And this:

"Jesus, whom heaven must receive until the time for restoring all the things about which God spoke by the mouth of his holy prophets long ago. - Acts 3:21​

He can't touch down here, until the time comes to restore all things.

When will "all things" be restored?

After the thousand years are finished.

"And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful. - Revelation 21:5
​

Has there been any studies on using bold text?

Does that make it more understandable?

Should I try to do some more?

Twenty five or six to four.

 

[ewq1938]

The thousand years are literal time, there's no way around it, but we spend that time reigning WITH Christ in heaven.

Not in heaven. Revelation 20 says the camp of the saints is next to Jerusalem. That's where the saints live during the thousand years. Plus, there is no one in heaven to reign over anyways. The nations are on the Earth and will be reigned over there.

 

[Dave Watchman]

Not in heaven.

Yes, we will be with Christ for 1000 years, in heaven.

When it says God, through Jesus, will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep, Paul's talking about bringing them from here (earth), to heaven (New Jerusalem).

Revelation 20 says the camp of the saints is next to Jerusalem.

Not really. You're doing the same thing as Keras. You're mixing the OT end times with the Daniel and Revelation narrative. Think about it. What happens after Revelation 20, after fire falls from heaven and kills the wicked. Do we go out and mark their remains? Burn their wooden weapons for seven years? And then watch while an infant sticks his hand down a viper hole?

No. That stuff is off the table. The Zachariah and Ezekiel end times were part of the Judaic conditional prophecies. Those things would have happened if the Old Time Jews would have redeemed the 70 weeks. The OT end times would have occurred IF the Old Time Jews would have let Jesus gather them as a hen gathers it's chicks.

That's where the saints live during the thousand years.

You got this one right old boy, but it's not what you think. The saints will live in NEW Jerusalem. It's a giant building made by God where billions of saints can fit inside and not even know their inside a building. Remember the Father's House with many rooms? Jesus went there to prepare a place for us. If it were not true, would He have told us? He's going to come back HERE and get us, and take us back to that place where He is.

After the thousand years are finished, New Jerusalem comes down from heaven, (with us inside it), like a Beloved City.

“Come, I will show you the Bride, the wife of the Lamb.” And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great, high mountain, and showed me the holy city Jerusalem coming down out of heaven from God,​

Plus, there is no one in heaven to reign over anyways.

There won't be anyone alive here on earth during the thousand years. The saints reigning WITH Christ doesn't mean we're going to be governing nations of mortal men and women. The saints reigning with Christ means this:

"Then I saw thrones, and seated on them were those to whom the authority to judge was committed. Also I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.​

It's the Pauline phase of the judgment process. The saints, WITH Christ, will participate in the judgment process. Or do you not know that the saints will judge the world? We, especially those who were the victims of crime, will review the lives of every single person who has died, and has NOT made it to New Jerusalem with us. I hope it won't take the full thousand years.

The nations are on the Earth and will be reigned over there.

Nope, I'm sorry man, they're all as dead as door nails. The ones that weren't killed by the plagues did not repent from their evil. The rest were killed by a sharp sword, a command to die, that came from the white horse Rider.

The only reason for the days to be shortened, for flesh to be saved alive, is so that scripture could be fulfilled: "we who are alive and remain.

"Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.​

If the days were not shortened, there would be no saints left alive to be changed in the twinkling of an eye. But after that it's just the carrion birds doing their job of cleanup on aisle 144. The great feast of God Almighty.

The only sentient life remaining here on earth, will be Satan and his demons. So it would be a bit spooky if you did survive as a human here.

Like the old bartender said at closing time,
"You might not have to go Home, but you can't stay here!