Tribulation Saints? A Contradiction

[Ronald D Milam]

All of that is wrong. The Father has no wife or bride. Only Christ has a bride and she will be of Israel (OT and NT saints) and Gentile Christians.

This is too easy..........

Jeremiah 3:14 Turn, O backsliding children, saith the Lord; for I am married unto you: and I will take you one of a city, and two of a family, and I will bring you to Zion:

Isiah 54:5 For thy Maker is thine husband; the Lord of hosts is his name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall he be called.

Many more verses say this, I though with all this time you would realize your error

 

[ewq1938]

This is too easy..........

Easier than you even realize:


Jer 3:6 The LORD said also unto me in the days of Josiah the king, Hast thou seen that which backsliding Israel hath done? she is gone up upon every high mountain and under every green tree, and there hath played the harlot.
Jer 3:7 And I said after she had done all these things, Turn thou unto me. But she returned not. And her treacherous sister Judah saw it.
Jer 3:8 And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also.
Jer 3:9 And it came to pass through the lightness of her whoredom, that she defiled the land, and committed adultery with stones and with stocks.
Jer 3:10 And yet for all this her treacherous sister Judah hath not turned unto me with her whole heart, but feignedly, saith the LORD.
Jer 3:11 And the LORD said unto me, The backsliding Israel hath justified herself more than treacherous Judah.


God divorces Israel yet Judah was even more sinful! Surely we can assume that Judah had been divorced also but there are scriptures that speak of this as well:




Jeremiah 3:8 And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also.

Zechariah 10:6 And I will strengthen the house of Judah, and I will save the house of Joseph, and I will bring them again to place them; for I have mercy upon them: and they shall be as though I had not cast them off: for I am the LORD their God, and will hear them.


Judah was "cast off" by God.


cast ...off
2186

02186 zanach {zaw-nakh'}

a primitive root meaning to push aside; TWOT - 564; v

AV - cast...off 17, cast away 1, turn...away 1, removed...far off; 20

1) to cast off, reject, spurn
1a) (Qal) to reject
1b) (Hiphil) to forcefully reject someone
2) to stink, emit stench, become odious
2a) (Hiphil) stink (perfect)



This "casting off" is the same reference of divorcing as in "putting away" a wife found in Jeremiah 3:8. Judah and Israel were "cast off" just as Israel had been "put away", both are terms for divorcing.




Mal_2:11 Judah hath dealt treacherously, and an abomination is committed in Israel and in Jerusalem; for Judah hath profaned the holiness of the LORD which he loved, and hath married the daughter of a strange god.

Here Judah is either presented as a male who has married the daughter of a false god, or a female who has married the daughter of a false god. Either way, Judah is no longer married to God.

 

[Ronald D Milam]

Easier than you even realize:


Jer 3:6 The LORD said also unto me in the days of Josiah the king, Hast thou seen that which backsliding Israel hath done? she is gone up upon every high mountain and under every green tree, and there hath played the harlot.
Jer 3:7 And I said after she had done all these things, Turn thou unto me. But she returned not. And her treacherous sister Judah saw it.
Jer 3:8 And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also.
Jer 3:9 And it came to pass through the lightness of her whoredom, that she defiled the land, and committed adultery with stones and with stocks.
Jer 3:10 And yet for all this her treacherous sister Judah hath not turned unto me with her whole heart, but feignedly, saith the LORD.
Jer 3:11 And the LORD said unto me, The backsliding Israel hath justified herself more than treacherous Judah.


God divorces Israel yet Judah was even more sinful! Surely we can assume that Judah had been divorced also but there are scriptures that speak of this as well:




Jeremiah 3:8 And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also.

Zechariah 10:6 And I will strengthen the house of Judah, and I will save the house of Joseph, and I will bring them again to place them; for I have mercy upon them: and they shall be as though I had not cast them off: for I am the LORD their God, and will hear them.


Judah was "cast off" by God.


cast ...off
2186

02186 zanach {zaw-nakh'}

a primitive root meaning to push aside; TWOT - 564; v

AV - cast...off 17, cast away 1, turn...away 1, removed...far off; 20

1) to cast off, reject, spurn
1a) (Qal) to reject
1b) (Hiphil) to forcefully reject someone
2) to stink, emit stench, become odious
2a) (Hiphil) stink (perfect)



This "casting off" is the same reference of divorcing as in "putting away" a wife found in Jeremiah 3:8. Judah and Israel were "cast off" just as Israel had been "put away", both are terms for divorcing.




Mal_2:11 Judah hath dealt treacherously, and an abomination is committed in Israel and in Jerusalem; for Judah hath profaned the holiness of the LORD which he loved, and hath married the daughter of a strange god.

Here Judah is either presented as a male who has married the daughter of a false god, or a female who has married the daughter of a false god. Either way, Judah is no longer married to God.

Yes, we know God married Israel then cast her off, refused to acknowledge her as even a entity, thus she was dead men's bones, but we also know the rest of the story, God receives them unto Himself again and as Zechariah 13:8-9 says (TRY READING IT) God calls them His people again and they call God their God again and thus Husband is reconciled unto His wife. Thus in Revelation 14:1, the 144,000 (ALL Israel who repent) have the Fathers name in their foreheads. So, Israel is married unto God. Whether you understand that or not is not really relevant unto the facts brother. I have yet to see you get a lot right about prophecy tbh.

 

[ewq1938]

So, Israel is married unto God.

No they are divorced. The only marriage left in the future is to Christ and that requires belief that he is the Messiah.

 

[Ronald D Milam]

No they are divorced. The only marriage left in the future is to Christ and that requires belief that he is the Messiah.

Go read about Hosea being ordered by God to marry a Prostitute which kept goin astray with many other "lovers" and then it may come unto you why God ordered him to do this. You need to learn to have a BIG PICTURE understanding, instead you see the micro picture.

God put off his wife Israel, and in Hosea he paints a picture of how He will eventually trat Israel, when Gomer was old and ugly, she then realized the truth. Israel will in the end understand the truth and God will receive His wife, you not getting it is not going to change God's plans brother.

 

[ewq1938]

Go read about Hosea being ordered by God to marry a Prostitute which kept goin astray with many other "lovers" and then it may come unto you why God ordered him to do this. You need to learn to have a BIG PICTURE understanding, instead you see the micro picture.

God put off his wife Israel, and in Hosea he paints a picture of how He will eventually trat Israel, when Gomer was old and ugly, she then realized the truth. Israel will in the end understand the truth and God will receive His wife, you not getting it is not going to change God's plans brother.

You not getting it is not going to change God's plans brother. God the Father is not married. The only marriage that will take place is the bride of Christ marrying Christ.

 

[Ronald D Milam]

You not getting it is not going to change God's plans brother. God the Father is not married. The only marriage that will take place is the bride of Christ marrying Christ.

There is no use discussing anything with you, through the years I have come to understand this.

 

[ewq1938]

There is no use discussing anything with you, through the years I have come to understand this.

We haven't spent years discussing anything. I don't know you and only recently have responded to anything you have posted.

 

[Davy]

The Day of the Lord is the whole 1,000 year reign on earth. The Second Coming is what brings Christ the Prince to earth. I did not take you for an Amillennial.

The "day of the Lord" BEGINS on the LAST DAY of this present world, which is also the day of Christ's 2nd coming to gather His Church, and end the great tribulation.

There is NO rapture coming prior to the great tribulation. That idea is a creation by men's leaven traditions. It's a false doctrine designed to see who we will listen to, either God in His Word, or to men and their doctrines. Those who listen to men's pre-trib rapture theory only show their laziness in study of God's Word, and or denial of God's Word as written.

 

[Timtofly]

The "day of the Lord" BEGINS on the LAST DAY of this present world, which is also the day of Christ's 2nd coming to gather His Church, and end the great tribulation.

There is NO rapture coming prior to the great tribulation. That idea is a creation by men's leaven traditions. It's a false doctrine designed to see who we will listen to, either God in His Word, or to men and their doctrines. Those who listen to men's pre-trib rapture theory only show their laziness in study of God's Word, and or denial of God's Word as written.

The Day of the Lord is the 1,000 year reign and it starts after the Second Coming and Christ as Prince cleaning house with fire. It will take Him and the angels weeks if not months to clean house from Jerusalem. You have the wrong timing of the Second Coming. God is not doing things remotely from the sky. All the Trumpets and Thunders is a hands on experience, just like the 3.5 years ending with the Cross in the first century. That was not by remote control from the sky either. God physically came to earth as Jesus. At the 6th Seal all will see the great white throne, and even the face of God sitting on that great white throne. They will watch as Jesus now as Prince sets up His throne and temple in Jerusalem. This all happens between the 6th and 7th Seal being opened. This is not the alledged rapture only event.

This is the Second Coming and rapture of those alive and remain in Adam's flesh. They are immediately changed from death to life, and meet the church, and glorified, in the air. It will bring terror to those trying to hide in the debris and mountains. Then before the 1st Trumpet, Satan will have convinced many to harden their hearts, because he has been conditioning humans for decades to be ready at any moment for such a cataclysmic event. Satan along with human imagination has imagined every possible scenario that God might throw at those left on earth. The church is the first harvest, not the "leftovers". This is not the trials and tribulation of the last 1992 years. This is the final harvest, and the church will witness from Paradise, not be subject to the same wrath poured out on the Cross, now extended to those who rejected the Cross.

 

[Davy]

The Day of the Lord is the 1,000 year reign and it starts after the Second Coming and Christ as Prince cleaning house with fire.
....

The "day of the Lord" is a day of 'destruction', if you'd take time to actually study your Bible. That destruction begins on the FINAL DAY of this present world with Christ's 2nd coming, which is also the day He gathers His Church per 1 Thessalonians 4.

Isa 13:6-9
6 Howl ye; for the day of the LORD is at hand; it shall come as a destruction from the Almighty.
7 Therefore shall all hands be faint, and every man's heart shall melt:
8 And they shall be afraid: pangs and sorrows shall take hold of them; they shall be in pain as a woman that travaileth: they shall be amazed one at another; their faces shall be as flames.
9 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and He shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.
KJV

This is why both Apostles Paul and Peter said that "day of the Lord" will come "as a thief in the night", referring to Lord Jesus' analogy of the day of His coming "as a thief". (1 Thessalonians 5; 2 Peter 3:10; Matthew 24; Revelation 16:15-17)

 

[No Pre-TB]

No they are divorced. The only marriage left in the future is to Christ and that requires belief that he is the Messiah.

Agreed. Though I was hoping someone would mention one caveat. Christ, who is God, was married to fleshly Israel yet in order to marry another people who were not his people, he has to die. Because the law allows remarriage when the spouse dies, only then is it permissible otherwise it would be adulterous. God allowed Christ to die so that all those with faith could be married to him opening the door to all: Jew or Greek

So, the Jews who are not married to God have a father who is the devil. Those Jews by bloodline that have faith in Christ are now Christians, and married to Christ/God. 2 flocks (Jew and Gentiles) brought into one FOLD (Israel) under 1 shepherd (Christ).

 

[ewq1938]

Agreed. Though I was hoping someone would mention one caveat. Christ, who is God, was married to fleshly Israel yet in order to marry another people who were not his people, he has to die. Because the law allows remarriage when the spouse dies, only then is it permissible otherwise it would be adulterous. God allowed Christ to die so that all those with faith could be married to him opening the door to all: Jew or Greek

I can't agree. Christ has never been married. His marriage comes in the future.

 

[Ronald D Milam]

We haven't spent years discussing anything. I don't know you and only recently have responded to anything you have posted.

No, I have been on Worthy is Revelation Man for years sir. And other boards also.

 

[ewq1938]

No, I have been on Worthy is Revelation Man for years sir. And other boards also.

I don't know any forum called Worthy nor know anyone named Revelation man.

 

[Ronald D Milam]

I don't know any forum called Worthy nor know anyone named Revelation man.

You have the same name on several boards, one is Christian Forums, so you are trying to tell me you don't have the exact same name on several forums? How would I know that?

 

[ewq1938]

You have the same name on several boards, one is Christian Forums, so you are trying to tell me you don't have the exact same name on several forums? How would I know that?

I certainly use the same name but I don't know any of yours and I checked the members of Christian forums and there is no "Revelation man". Maybe you have other names you use?

 

[Timtofly]

The "day of the Lord" is a day of 'destruction', if you'd take time to actually study your Bible. That destruction begins on the FINAL DAY of this present world with Christ's 2nd coming, which is also the day He gathers His Church per 1 Thessalonians 4.

Isa 13:6-9
6 Howl ye; for the day of the LORD is at hand; it shall come as a destruction from the Almighty.
7 Therefore shall all hands be faint, and every man's heart shall melt:
8 And they shall be afraid: pangs and sorrows shall take hold of them; they shall be in pain as a woman that travaileth: they shall be amazed one at another; their faces shall be as flames.
9 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and He shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.
KJV

This is why both Apostles Paul and Peter said that "day of the Lord" will come "as a thief in the night", referring to Lord Jesus' analogy of the day of His coming "as a thief". (1 Thessalonians 5; 2 Peter 3:10; Matthew 24; Revelation 16:15-17)

That is what I said.

 

[Davy]

That is what I said.

If I recall earlier conversations with you, I remember your belief on the false pre-trib rapture theory, which DOES NOT believe the "day of the Lord" is the LAST DAY of this present world. The pre-trib theory instead believes Jesus comes to rapture the Church PRIOR to the great tribulation, and some of those folks even believe the "day of the Lord" is the actual great tribulation time itself, which also is one of their false ideas.

 

[Timtofly]

If I recall earlier conversations with you, I remember your belief on the false pre-trib rapture theory, which DOES NOT believe the "day of the Lord" is the LAST DAY of this present world. The pre-trib theory instead believes Jesus comes to rapture the Church PRIOR to the great tribulation, and some of those folks even believe the "day of the Lord" is the actual great tribulation time itself, which also is one of their false ideas.

It is worse than that. You have the wrong timing for the Second Coming itself. You claim Christians go through the same wrath Jesus suffered on the Cross. Oh Well.

At least you seem prepared to suffer God's wrath.