Trump using the Bible as a prop...

[Joseph77]

Joseph, are you suggesting that there are no mistakes in the English translations of the source texts that many refer to as "The Bible."

No, that is presumptive of you.

 

[Jay Ross]

No, that is presumptive of you.

So then, you agree that the English Translations of the Source texts from which the English translations were compiled from do contain errors, based on your response?

 

[Joseph77]

So then, you agree that the English Translations of the Source texts from which the English translations were compiled from do contain errors, based on your response?

Did you answer the question ?

.... awkward ....

If someone receives a letter written in French from a French Dignitary,
and needs it translated.... they might get various translations, yes.

If they visit the French Dignitary in person, face to face, and talk with them, they can ask directly and find out first hand , without any mistake.

Oh, this is awkward, I thought I posted a question....

Well, ask the Author of Scripture if you want to know what He Means.

 

[DogMan]

It is an awesome prop used to inspire people.

 

[Jay Ross]

Did you answer the question ?

Oh, this is awkward, I thought I posted a question....

Well, ask the Author of Scripture if you want to know what He Means.

Joseph, I saw through your question and did answer it with my response. Not many people know how to make the right connection with God to ask Him for guidance in their understanding. Usually they try speaking at God and not with Him or they get a completely different connection all together.

You inserting yourself into this conversation is what is awkward in your attempt to defend a position that cannot be defended even by you.

The conversation that was occurring was with someone who has adopted an understanding of what the English translation presents when the translation of the Greek word "genea" should be understood to be an "Age" and not a "descendant generation," which is the understanding that he has wrongly adopted. He believes that his understanding is correct and beyond reproach and has attacked the messenger and not the message content.

i.e.

Sniped from the Biblehub web page: -



Cannot get any clearer than this.

I have tried to have a logical scriptural discussion with him using scripture to justify my argument but he cannot be swayed.

 

[Joseph77]

Joseph, I saw through your question and did answer it with my response.

No.
It appears to me that
You were deceived, and are not seeking the truth at the moment.

 

[Jay Ross]

No.
You were deceived, and are not seeking the truth at the moment.

Joseph, are you bored and have no one else to annoy with your righteousness?

 

[junobet]

You speak about Fox news like they're nothing bu a shill for the right - yet the Leftist nonsense you espouse reads like a script from MSNBC or CNN. You seem to have good intentions - but you've have been seduced by the Left because you don't pay attention.

Tell me something - if the BLM Marxists are so "concerned" about Black lives - why haven't they mentioned a WORD about all of the Black lives that were lost this weekend around the country?? What about the SEVENTY people shot in Chicago this past weekend - MOST of them Blacks shot bu other Blacks. In other cities, several small children were gunned down - some of them Black children, shot by other Blacks.
Who is protesting THEIR deaths??

When I see Marxist idiots rioting in the streets screaming about "equality" - yet they do NOTHING about the murders and rapes in their own communities - then I KNOW that the problem has nothing to do woith race or Black Radicalism. It has EVERYTHING to do with Marxist Socialism. and blaming the Right for all of their ills.

When the BLM idiots, in their "Statement of Beliefs" condemn the nuclear family model in favor of a "fostering a queer‐affirming network" - Christians should NOT support this manure. Christians should divorce themselves from this evil and live according to the Word of God - and not the edicts of some radical atheist group like BLM, Inc.

We’re moving in circles here. How can you still not have gotten that criticizing capitalism doesn’t mean one has to be advocating socialism or whatever you think socialism is? But I can tell you one thing for sure:

Of all the socio-economic systems known to men the one that’s least according to the teachings of Christ is capitalism. The early Christians freed themselves from personal material wealth because they wanted to accumulate a treasure in heaven and not on earth. Whereas capitalism is all about getting more and more stuff for yourself, just like these stupid Israelites who gathered more manna than they needed. And as much as you try to whitewash it: this system has killed many many more people than that horrible Stalinism and the like. Basically every war in history was started for reasons of material greed. That Capitalist machine you glorify so much runs on human blood and exploitation and will eventually make this planet uninhabitable. Now I don’t think Christians are called to a violent revolution. But setting little lights in the darkness like the Catholic Worker Movement does when it houses the poor or peacefully protests the systemic racism that’s still rampant, that imho is a fruit of true faith.

And because concerning BLM this other topic seems to bother you that much:

A Christian is not necessarily obliged to be a homophobe. And in no way does the Bible advocate the traditional 50ies family model. The Old Testament certainly does not and the New Testament either tells you to leave your family for Christ or about the households of the early Christians. An ‘oikos’, as mentioned in the New Testament, isn’t a nuclear family but a much more extended social group. So I have no problems with BLM’s community work. As it says: it takes a village to raise a child. Probably even more so when your village is full of people working three jobs and still not being able to afford a nanny. Think about it.

However, if you’re so keen on your family values and actually deem them at the core of Christian faith, you probably should easily see through the hypocrisy of a man who is now married for the third time and who has had numerous affairs. This is behaviour that the Bible Trump held up most certainly condemns.

 

[junobet]

What you are reading is propaganda. Don't accept everything you read at face value.

First of all, testing doesn't reveal new cases. Testing reveals "unknown" cases of people who had the disease and remain asymptomatic. Those who are actually sick and have symptoms don't need a test to tell them they are sick. Right? Symptoms = sick. Tests = antibodies. (i.e. already infected and got better.) Second, the critical issue is the mortality rate = number of known cases divided by the number of actual Covid-19 deaths. Based on these figures, the mortality rate is dropping. As of yesterday, it was .0003 percent. No more than the normal flu or the common cold. The more people who test positive for the virus, the lower the morality rate. More cases is actually good news not bad news.

I was never frightened because it wasn't an actual pandemic. The deaths are real, but the reports were wrong and criminally erroneous. The models predicted that the US would see over 2 million deaths. Nothing like that is even close. Even now, reports of the death counts are inflated. In order to see this, one needs to visit the CDC website and see the data first hand, rather than seeing it filtered through the "ministry of truth."

There is no such thing as alternate facts. Facts are facts. And again, the high number of reported cases is a good sign, not a bad sign. We have learned a lot since this thing first started. One thing we learned is that some people can be infected with the virus without indication. Testing has proven that many people were infected with the virus and didn't even know it. When all these, otherwise unknown cases were taken into account, it turns out that the virus is not as deadly as first reported.

Scientists are sinners too. Don't lean too heavily on them, especially those seeking funding.

Wearing masks is actually bad for you. We are not supposed to breathe stale air. People with heart conditions can suffer heart failure if exposed for too long. Think about it. Can a cloth mask over the face do anything to stop a microscopic virus? No? Really? Hydroxy is a proven cure.

Well, I certainly won’t lean on virologists when it comes to questions of my eternal salvation. But when it comes to the question of how to best handle a virus they are the people to ask - if you want to save the maximum number of lifes, as should be a Christian moral imperative.

Your disdain for scientists shows that you are not the least bit interested in actual facts. Instead you just eat the alternative facts that suit Trump’s erratic agenda on how to be re-elected in spite of him having screwed up big time in this crisis. (Btw.: the term ‘alternative facts’ was not coined by me but by Trump’s aid Conway.)

Please note that as of yet there is no proven cure for Corvid-19 and that wearing a face mask will do you no harm whatsoever. In other cultures covering your face is normal and people there don’t drop dead from it. These days I wear a mask all day at work. The mask won’t protect me much, but it will lower the risk of me infecting others should I carry the virus. It’s just a slight inconvenience for the sake of caring for my fellow-men. And you think that’s too much to ask?

The consequences of Trump and the American right turning this small piece of cloth into a political culture war and trying to downplay the pandemic are sad to behold really: More than 3 million infections in the US as of Wednesday, hospitals at breaking point. The worst hit country in the world. Compare that to your neighbour Canada or any other western country:

'It's like night and day': Trudeau's and Trump's Covid-19 responses fuel wildly different outcomes

So again: you are in my prayers, man. Please do your bit.

 

[BreadOfLife]

We’re moving in circles here. How can you still not have gotten that criticizing capitalism doesn’t mean one has to be advocating socialism or whatever you think socialism is? But I can tell you one thing for sure:

Of all the socio-economic systems known to men the one that’s least according to the teachings of Christ is capitalism. The early Christians freed themselves from personal material wealth because they wanted to accumulate a treasure in heaven and not on earth. Whereas capitalism is all about getting more and more stuff for yourself, just like these stupid Israelites who gathered more manna than they needed. And as much as you try to whitewash it: this system has killed many many more people than that horrible Stalinism and the like. Basically every war in history was started for reasons of material greed. That Capitalist machine you glorify so much runs on human blood and exploitation and will eventually make this planet uninhabitable. Now I don’t think Christians are called to a violent revolution. But setting little lights in the darkness like the Catholic Worker Movement does when it houses the poor or peacefully protests the systemic racism that’s still rampant, that imho is a fruit of true faith.

And because concerning BLM this other topic seems to bother you that much:

A Christian is not necessarily obliged to be a homophobe. And in no way does the Bible advocate the traditional 50ies family model. The Old Testament certainly does not and the New Testament either tells you to leave your family for Christ or about the households of the early Christians. An ‘oikos’, as mentioned in the New Testament, isn’t a nuclear family but a much more extended social group. So I have no problems with BLM’s community work. As it says: it takes a village to raise a child. Probably even more so when your village is full of people working three jobs and still not being able to afford a nanny. Think about it.

However, if you’re so keen on your family values and actually deem them at the core of Christian faith, you probably should easily see through the hypocrisy of a man who is now married for the third time and who has had numerous affairs. This is behaviour that the Bible Trump held up most certainly condemns.

This post has so MANY holes in it - it's difficult to know just where to begin.

Let's starts with YOUR support of BLM, Inc.'s total rejection of the BIBLICAL family model in favor of "fostering a queer‐affirming network".
Genesis 5:1-2 tells us:
Male and female he created them, and he blessed them and named them Man when they were created.

Gen. 2:24 reminds us that . . .
Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and they shall become ONE FLESH.

Marriage and the Family unit is a microcosm of Christ's Church. This is why God spends so much time on this topic in His Word
(Gen. 2:24, 1 Pet. 3:7, Gen. 2:18, Prov. 18:22, Heb. 13:4, Eph. 5:25, Eph. 5:33, Col. 3:18-19, Eph. 5:22-24, Matt. 19:4-6, Mal. 2:16, Mark 10:6-9, Mark 10:9, Prov. 12:4, Prov. 31:10, Eph. 5:22-33, Gen. 1:27-28, 1 Tim. 5:8, Prov. 19:14, 2 Cor. 6:14, Eccl. 4:12, 1 Pet.4:8, Psalm 127:3-5). For whatever reason YOU and BLM disagree with Him . . .

And it's not "homophobic" to reject that which God himself rejects (Gen. 19:1-11, Leviticus 18:22, Lev. 20:13, Judges 19:16-24, 1 Kings 14:24, 1 Kings 15:12, 2 Kings 23:7, Rom. 1:18-32, 1 Cor. 6:9-11, 1 Tim. 1:8-10, Jude 7).

As for the Scriptures "rejecting" Capitalism - that is a gigantic CROCK of your own socialist invention. It condemns GREED, which is found in EVERY economic system. Just ask anybody from Ananias and Saphira to Joseph Stalin, Mao Tse Tung, Fidel Castro and Hugo Chavez.
NOWHERE Does the Bible decry Capitalism, which has lifted BILLIONS of people out of starvation and poverty - whereas Socialism has only pointed hundreds of millions of them towards it.

Let's not forget that virtually EVERY SINGLE Socialist ans Communist nation in the last 100 years was built on ATHEISM and banned religion. Those countries ALSO murdered a combined total of over 100 MILLION of their own people in as much time.

Finally, as I educated you earlier - as Christians, we are called to charity. Charitable giving in a Capitalist system FAR exceeds that of the socialist and communist systems by LEAPS and BOUNDS.

So much for your murderous, morally and economically collapsed systems of Socialism and Communism.
Leave MY country out of it . . .

 

[CadyandZoe]

Well, I certainly won’t lean on virologists when it comes to questions of my eternal salvation. But when it comes to the question of how to best handle a virus they are the people to ask - if you want to save the maximum number of lifes, as should be a Christian moral imperative.

Of course, that goes without saying.

Your disdain for scientists shows that you are not the least bit interested in actual facts. Instead you just eat the alternative facts that suit Trump’s erratic agenda on how to be re-elected in spite of him having screwed up big time in this crisis. (Btw.: the term ‘alternative facts’ was not coined by me but by Trump’s aid Conway.)

Please don't mistake my caveat for disdain. Beware of authoritarian based pressures to accept certain "so-called" facts. One of the goals of the enlightenment was to free the human mind from the authoritarianism coming from the Catholic church. Today, the same kind of authoritarianism is coming from groups who claim to represent science. These people are capable of lying like everybody else, and they WILL lie when it serves their interests.

This Covid-19 event is a psy-ops operation intended to frighten the public into submissive compliance to the coming fourth industrial revolution. Corrupt scientists are part of it. Climate Change is one example.

Please note that as of yet there is no proven cure for Corvid-19 and that wearing a face mask will do you no harm whatsoever.

On the contrary, hydroxychloroquine given with Zinc, under a doctor's supervision has proven to be a cure. And yes, prolonged wearing of the mask causes harm.

Think for yourself. Ask yourself. Is it good for a person to breathe carbon dioxide? What are the health effects of hypercapnia?

In other cultures covering your face is normal and people there don’t drop dead from it.

There is a difference between a mask and a veil, right? The Burqa, which is a loose fitting veil covering the entire head, can contribute significantly to certain health problems related to vitamin D deficiency. But a mask, fitting tight to the face, with enough force to block the air way, presumably to keep projectile spittle from being inhaled or exhaled, becomes a rebreathing device.

These days I wear a mask all day at work. The mask won’t protect me much, but it will lower the risk of me infecting others should I carry the virus.

Why are you wearing the mask? Was it your choice or did someone command you to wear it? If wearing the mask was your choice, then fine. But if your employer or government has obligated you to wear it, then your argument begins to sound like a rationalization.

The United States is ostensibly different than any other country in the world in this regard. Our country was founded on Liberty, and as such we are supposed to be a nation of "freemen." The term originated in 12th-century Europe. ... Black's Law Dictionary (9th edition) defines Freeman as follows: 1. A person who possesses and enjoys all the civil and political rights belonging to the people under a free government." This is only part of the picture; according to our constitution, people have rights, and they reserve their rights to themselves. The government has no rights; they have powers granted to them by the people.

Bottom line, in a free society, freeman are entitled to free will, and conscience dictates their free choices. The choice whether to wear a mask or not should be left to the individual to decide. A governor or a president can not dictate to me whether to wear a mask or not. Rules and regulations concerning safety are decided by the people. But the governors of the States have over-stepped their authority, acting as dictators rather than the people's executive.

The consequences of Trump and the American right turning this small piece of cloth into a political culture war and trying to downplay the pandemic are sad to behold really: More than 3 million infections in the US as of Wednesday, hospitals at breaking point.

I can tell from your comments that you watch CNN? Yes?

I am doing my bit. We are NOT all in this together. I wish you could come here physically and see all the empty hospital beds with your own eyes.

 

[junobet]

This post has so MANY holes in it - it's difficult to know just where to begin.

Let's starts with YOUR support of BLM, Inc.'s total rejection of the BIBLICAL family model in favor of "fostering a queer‐affirming network".
Genesis 5:1-2 tells us:
Male and female he created them, and he blessed them and named them Man when they were created.

Gen. 2:24 reminds us that . . .
Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and they shall become ONE FLESH.

Marriage and the Family unit is a microcosm of Christ's Church. This is why God spends so much time on this topic in His Word
(Gen. 2:24, 1 Pet. 3:7, Gen. 2:18, Prov. 18:22, Heb. 13:4, Eph. 5:25, Eph. 5:33, Col. 3:18-19, Eph. 5:22-24, Matt. 19:4-6, Mal. 2:16, Mark 10:6-9, Mark 10:9, Prov. 12:4, Prov. 31:10, Eph. 5:22-33, Gen. 1:27-28, 1 Tim. 5:8, Prov. 19:14, 2 Cor. 6:14, Eccl. 4:12, 1 Pet.4:8, Psalm 127:3-5). For whatever reason YOU and BLM disagree with Him . . .

And it's not "homophobic" to reject that which God himself rejects (Gen. 19:1-11, Leviticus 18:22, Lev. 20:13, Judges 19:16-24, 1 Kings 14:24, 1 Kings 15:12, 2 Kings 23:7, Rom. 1:18-32, 1 Cor. 6:9-11, 1 Tim. 1:8-10, Jude 7).

As for the Scriptures "rejecting" Capitalism - that is a gigantic CROCK of your own socialist invention. It condemns GREED, which is found in EVERY economic system. Just ask anybody from Ananias and Saphira to Joseph Stalin, Mao Tse Tung, Fidel Castro and Hugo Chavez.
NOWHERE Does the Bible decry Capitalism, which has lifted BILLIONS of people out of starvation and poverty - whereas Socialism has only pointed hundreds of millions of them towards it.

Let's not forget that virtually EVERY SINGLE Socialist ans Communist nation in the last 100 years was built on ATHEISM and banned religion. Those countries ALSO murdered a combined total of over 100 MILLION of their own people in as much time.

Finally, as I educated you earlier - as Christians, we are called to charity. Charitable giving in a Capitalist system FAR exceeds that of the socialist and communist systems by LEAPS and BOUNDS.

Thanks for trying to educate me. Please let me give you some advice though: It doesn’t help to continuously being unfriendly towards those you are trying to educate.

As for Biblical family values: It comes as no surprise that a text written in the 6th/5th century BC doesn’t have a concept of gender fluidity yet. Nor does it come as a surprise that such a text does not promote strict monogamy. We can see that attitudes towards monogamy had changed by NT times, without the Bible even bothering to explain that change of heart. Clearly concepts of marriage and family are a cultural phenomenon and – as seen in the Bible -human culture does change over time. If you are getting all upset about such changes you may find comfort in Jesus telling us that there is no marriage in heaven. That’s how unimportant it is really.

Charity is the finest virtue indeed, when understood as described by Paul so famously in 1. Corinthians 13.

It’s not so fine a virtue when I fill in my Christmas check for charity so that I can feel all warm and good about myself, but when I am to much of a scrooge to be willing to pay into a welfare system that grants everybody’s basic needs are met.

Now back in March due to Corona I had to shut down my business: zero takings + running costs = looming bankruptcy. In the weeks it took us to sort things out financially it gave me a certain peace of mind to know that such a welfare system is in place in my country. So in all likelihood neither I, nor my family nor my employees woud end up homeless and dependent on random charity.

So much for your murderous, morally and economically collapsed systems of Socialism and Communism.
Leave MY country out of it . . .

Funnily enough much of your country's economy is basically owned by Communist China. Or who do you think gave the US trillions in credit? I would certainly agree that China is morally collapsed, but seeing that your current government is working hard to have an equally abysmal human rights record, maybe that's the house you should tidy up first.

Of course you are entitled to vote for whichever politics you prefer. So are the Americans whose political views differ from yours. Remember that it is their country too.

As indicated above – while there is room for improvement - I’m quite happy with the ‘socialist’ politics in the country I live in. Especially in this day and age I learned to appreciate that most people here are entitled to paid sick leave for example. So there’s no need for them to work when ill and to infect the entire office. But suit yourself.

 

[junobet]

Of course, that goes without saying.

Thank God we at least share this moral imperative. So why would a Christian support a President who’s clearly prioritizing getting the stock market going over saving human life?

Please don't mistake my caveat for disdain. Beware of authoritarian based pressures to accept certain "so-called" facts. One of the goals of the enlightenment was to free the human mind from the authoritarianism coming from the Catholic church. Today, the same kind of authoritarianism is coming from groups who claim to represent science. These people are capable of lying like everybody else, and they WILL lie when it serves their interests.

This Covid-19 event is a psy-ops operation intended to frighten the public into submissive compliance to the coming fourth industrial revolution. Corrupt scientists are part of it. Climate Change is one example.

Sorry, but wild conspiracy theories are still not my thing. The covid-19 event was no ‘psy-op operation’ (whatever that’s supposed to be) of any kind, but a naturally occurring mutation in a Virus that can now infect humans. It was just a matter of time until another global pandemic such as the Spanish flu would strike. Which is why most states already had some form of emergency plans in their back pocket. In the US the “Global Health Security and Biodefense unit“ would have been responsible for an adequate reaction. It got disbanded by the Trump-administration in 2018.

Science is politically neutral. In their daily life scientists may lie like you and I do, but lying in their field of expertise wouldn’t make much sense in an environment in which everything is peer reviewed and supposed to deliver repeatable results. Of course there are also corrupt scientists, like the one or two in a hundred who work for the fossil-fuel industry and who – surprise – deny climate change. I suppose companies like Exon also pay for the disproportionate air-time such climate change deniers get and of course they make sure to bribe politicians with big donations: Fossil fuel industries pumped millions into Trump's inauguration, filing shows

On the contrary, hydroxychloroquine given with Zinc, under a doctor's supervision has proven to be a cure.

IT IS NOT A CURE! Sorry to be shouting. But there comes the time when misinformation endangers people’s health.

This article describes very well how so many people came to believe that hydroxychloroquine was a cure against the corona-virus, when in fact the science supporting its use was on shaky grounds to begin with. Please be aware that “Research on hydroxychloroquine has accumulated, and now most experts agree that it likely isn’t effective as a COVID-19 treatment – with some studies even suggesting that it may be harmful. “ When Trump pushed hydroxychloroquine to treat COVID-19, hundreds of thousands of prescriptions followed despite little evidence that it worked

And yes, prolonged wearing of the mask causes harm.

Think for yourself. Ask yourself. Is it good for a person to breathe carbon dioxide? What are the health effects of hypercapnia?

There is a difference between a mask and a veil, right? The Burqa, which is a loose fitting veil covering the entire head, can contribute significantly to certain health problems related to vitamin D deficiency. But a mask, fitting tight to the face, with enough force to block the air way, presumably to keep projectile spittle from being inhaled or exhaled, becomes a rebreathing device.

NO, IT DOES NOT CAUSE BODILY HARM TO WEAR A FACE MASK! Sorry for shouting again, but again you endanger people’s health with this kind of misinformation.

Nobody would want to run a marathon wearing a mask, but it’s utterly doable in daily life. If you find it uncomfortable to wear a mask, sorry dude, but your comfort isn’t of higher value than the health of your-fellow-man.

Vitamin D deficiency is probably the least of an Afghan’s woman problems right now. I was more thinking of Asian cultures where it’s the done thing to wear a face mask in public. It’s regarded as a measure of standard hygiene and courtesy, just as covering your mouth when coughing or sneezing has always been a measure of standard hygiene and courtesy in our culture.

Even in normal times South Koreans for example had a higher life expectancy than US-Americans. With Corvid-19 they managed to not even have to go into lockdown to curb it. What South Korea Teaches The World About Fighting COVID

Why are you wearing the mask? Was it your choice or did someone command you to wear it? If wearing the mask was your choice, then fine. But if your employer or government has obligated you to wear it, then your argument begins to sound like a rationalization.

Actually I’m self-employed. Just recently I was allowed to re-open my business under certain new regulations to minimize the risk for me, my staff and our customers. Yes, and we’re legally obliged now to wear face-masks whilst serving customers. If one of my staff refused to do so I could and would fire them. Luckily here in Germany your kind of attitude towards masks is extremely rare, so none of my staff does take issue with wearing them. In fact we are all just too aware that most cases in Europe go back to one infected barman in an popular Austrian ski resort. Kind of makes you see your responsibility. I certainly would not like to be in that guy’s shoes and become a super-spreader.

The United States is ostensibly different than any other country in the world in this regard. Our country was founded on Liberty, and as such we are supposed to be a nation of "freemen." The term originated in 12th-century Europe. ... Black's Law Dictionary (9th edition) defines Freeman as follows: 1. A person who possesses and enjoys all the civil and political rights belonging to the people under a free government." This is only part of the picture; according to our constitution, people have rights, and they reserve their rights to themselves. The government has no rights; they have powers granted to them by the people.

Bottom line, in a free society, freeman are entitled to free will, and conscience dictates their free choices. The choice whether to wear a mask or not should be left to the individual to decide. A governor or a president can not dictate to me whether to wear a mask or not. Rules and regulations concerning safety are decided by the people. But the governors of the States have over-stepped their authority, acting as dictators rather than the people's executive.

Well, my friend. I like to think that I also live in a free country and without wanting to come across as smug please let me remind you that the US idea of liberty and civil rights has European roots. So let me try to loosely translate a bit of Kant for you: “One man’s freedom ends where another man’s freedom begins.”

My freedom to party all night ends where my neighbour’s freedom to have a good night’s sleep begins.

My freedom to speed or to do drunk-driving ends where others’ freedom to partake in traffic without mortal fear begins.

Your freedom not to wear a face-covering should end where your fellow-man’s freedom to not catch the virus from you begins.

Any attempt to glorify as ‘freedom’ what is just plain selfishness won’t cut it.

I can tell from your comments that you watch CNN? Yes?

No, I don’t watch CNN. But if I lived in the US I probably would. What I’ve seen from Fox News was just as laughable as the old GDR propaganda channel was. Of course most Eastern Germans watched Western German News to actually stay informed. Alas it seems many in the audience of Fox News and Co. prefer to stay in their self-chosen bubble.

I am doing my bit. We are NOT all in this together. I wish you could come here physically and see all the empty hospital beds with your own eyes.

Of course we are all in this together. This global pandemic and the speed of its spread should have made it abundantly clear, that this globe of ours is a very small boat indeed. Before Trump got into office the US would have taken a leading role to fight this disease, just as it did with Ebola. Alas, these days it just serves as a bad example. You may still be lucky enough to live in a part of the US where hospitals are empty. But if you don’t watch it soon your hospitals will ring the alarm bells, just as hospitals in other parts of the US do. Like ‘a Bus Accident a Day’: Hospitals Strain Under New Flood of Covid-19 Patients

Stay safe for yourself and others.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Thanks for trying to educate me. Please let me give you some advice though: It doesn’t help to continuously being unfriendly towards those you are trying to educate.

As for Biblical family values: It comes as no surprise that a text written in the 6th/5th century BC doesn’t have a concept of gender fluidity yet. Nor does it come as a surprise that such a text does not promote strict monogamy. We can see that attitudes towards monogamy had changed by NT times, without the Bible even bothering to explain that change of heart. Clearly concepts of marriage and family are a cultural phenomenon and – as seen in the Bible -human culture does change over time. If you are getting all upset about such changes you may find comfort in Jesus telling us that there is no marriage in heaven. That’s how unimportant it is really.

Charity is the finest virtue indeed, when understood as described by Paul so famously in 1. Corinthians 13.

It’s not so fine a virtue when I fill in my Christmas check for charity so that I can feel all warm and good about myself, but when I am to much of a scrooge to be willing to pay into a welfare system that grants everybody’s basic needs are met.

Now back in March due to Corona I had to shut down my business: zero takings + running costs = looming bankruptcy. In the weeks it took us to sort things out financially it gave me a certain peace of mind to know that such a welfare system is in place in my country. So in all likelihood neither I, nor my family nor my employees woud end up homeless and dependent on random charity.


Funnily enough much of your country's economy is basically owned by Communist China. Or who do you think gave the US trillions in credit? I would certainly agree that China is morally collapsed, but seeing that your current government is working hard to have an equally abysmal human rights record, maybe that's the house you should tidy up first.

Of course you are entitled to vote for whichever politics you prefer. So are the Americans whose political views differ from yours. Remember that it is their country too.

As indicated above – while there is room for improvement - I’m quite happy with the ‘socialist’ politics in the country I live in. Especially in this day and age I learned to appreciate that most people here are entitled to paid sick leave for example. So there’s no need for them to work when ill and to infect the entire office. But suit yourself.

First of all - I'm glad that you're happy with the socialist politics of your country. I'm glad that you enjoy being so heavily-taxed for your hard work and having your hard-earned money given to those who refuse to work. And if you like it so much - stay there. Nobody is begging you to come here and bring that perverted economic structure to this neck of the woods.

As for the Bible not being "gender-fluid" enough for you - I take great comfort in that. It gives me comfort to know that Scripture isn't filled with the same confusion that is cause by people who refuse to accept that there are only TWO sexes.
There is no such thing as "gender-fluidity". It's just another excuse for morally-bankrupt people to behave as they wish without taking ANY responsibility. Good luck with that because GOD has the final say.

As for your ignorant take on Biblical monogamy - that IS the theme of Scripture. The fact that SOME in Scripture violated that plan is NOT God's fault. We are taught from Genesis that God made them male and female (Gen. 5:2) and that a man clings to his wife and the TWO become ONE flesh (Gen. 2:24). He's NOT supposed to cling to 10 or 15 - and definitely NOT of the same sex (Gen. 19:1-11, Leviticus 18:22, Lev. 20:13, Judges 19:16-24, 1 Kings 14:24, 1 Kings 15:12, 2 Kings 23:7, Rom. 1:18-32, 1 Cor. 6:9-11, 1 Tim. 1:8-10, Jude 7)

Yout statement that marriage is "unimportant" in Scripture because people are not given in marriage in Heaven is perhaps your most moronic statement - and one that shows your total obliviousness to Scripture. God's ENTIRE plan of Salvation is BASED on marriage. In parable after parable, Jesus compares his Church to a bride and groom. We are taught about the Bridal feast of the Lamb (Christ) in Heaven to his Bride (the Church). It's probably better NOT to speak of things you don't have a clue about . . .

Your comment about the U.S. having an "equally abysmal" human rights record with the like of China is so ridiculously asinine, it almost doesn't deserve a response - but I'll give you one anyway.

China's human rights record isn't even on the same stratosphere as the United States. I'll go even further than that:
EVERY SINGLE totalitarian Communist and Socialist regime in the last hundred years had an abysmal human rights record and was light years behind the United States in the treatment of their citizens. THOSE are the facts of history - and NO amount of your Socialist revisionism can ever change that.

If the Unites States was such an "abysmal" country with so much "racism" and human rights atrocities . . .
WHY is everybody in the world trying to get in??
Why have over TWO MILLION Black Africans emigrated here in the last 30 years??
Why do we have to build a WALL to keep the millions of Mexican and South and Central Americans from illegally crossing over??

That's the funny thing about Socialists and Anarchists - you're arguments so easily-defeatable because they'e ALL based in emotion and ideology instead of hard facts . . .

PS - Just out of curiosity - what country do you live in?

 

[CadyandZoe]

Thank God we at least share this moral imperative. So why would a Christian support a President who’s clearly prioritizing getting the stock market going over saving human life?

I think as Christians we should know the answer to this. First of all, death is unavoidable. We all know this. We are sad when our loved ones die. But we also know the grim reality that death is inevitable for each and every one of us.

President Trump is not God. And we should not expect him or any other world leader to keep death from happening. As Americans, we understand that life comes with risks of every sort. Everything good in life comes with a risk of death. This is a fact of our existence. To deny this is to chafe against reality the way God designed it. Doing good is risky. For what did the apostle Paul find?

2 Corinthians 11:19-20
19 For you, being so wise, tolerate the foolish gladly. 20 For you tolerate it if anyone enslaves you, anyone devours you, anyone takes advantage of you, anyone exalts himself, anyone hits you in the face.

The world leaders are enslaving the people. Trump is attempting to set them free. But many in the world tolerate the foolish, even as they enslave them and devour them.

Paul the apostle also attempted to free people, and he also suffered. Hear it in the Apostles own words, "
2 Corinthians 11:21-29

Second, perhaps you didn't know that the Biblical word "soul" is sometimes translated "life" because the word "soul" not only indicates the individual as he is but it also indicates the person's occupation. We don't HAVE a soul; we ARE a soul. And how we sustain our lives and occupy our time is just as much a part of us as our thoughts, fears, hopes and dreams. Putting people back to work, is saving souls. Putting someone back to work, gives one dignity, especially if that person lives in a free country and works for himself or herself.

If you listen to President trump, he talks a lot about the individual. And he rewards individual achievement. And so, though he uses the stock market as one marker of success, his primary focus is on the individual American citizen. This is why the stimulus money was given to individuals and small businesses rather than large corporations.

Look we will never agree about Covid-19, but look around and see who might be trying to enslave you and devour you. Who is attempting to control you by keeping you "safe?" Safety is good, but safety is NOT our top priority. If it was, we wouldn't drive a car, buy produce from a store, live in a second floor apartment, live in North Dakota, take an ocean cruse, eat sushi or lobster, fly in an airplane, or participate in a downhill cheese-chasing competition.

Living free comes with risks.

 

[Jim B]

I think as Christians we should know the answer to this. First of all, death is unavoidable. We all know this. We are sad when our loved ones die. But we also know the grim reality that death is inevitable for each and every one of us.

President Trump is not God. And we should not expect him or any other world leader to keep death from happening. As Americans, we understand that life comes with risks of every sort. Everything good in life comes with a risk of death. This is a fact of our existence. To deny this is to chafe against reality the way God designed it. Doing good is risky. For what did the apostle Paul find?

2 Corinthians 11:19-20
19 For you, being so wise, tolerate the foolish gladly. 20 For you tolerate it if anyone enslaves you, anyone devours you, anyone takes advantage of you, anyone exalts himself, anyone hits you in the face.

The world leaders are enslaving the people. Trump is attempting to set them free. But many in the world tolerate the foolish, even as they enslave them and devour them.

Paul the apostle also attempted to free people, and he also suffered. Hear it in the Apostles own words, "
2 Corinthians 11:21-29

Second, perhaps you didn't know that the Biblical word "soul" is sometimes translated "life" because the word "soul" not only indicates the individual as he is but it also indicates the person's occupation. We don't HAVE a soul; we ARE a soul. And how we sustain our lives and occupy our time is just as much a part of us as our thoughts, fears, hopes and dreams. Putting people back to work, is saving souls. Putting someone back to work, gives one dignity, especially if that person lives in a free country and works for himself or herself.

If you listen to President trump, he talks a lot about the individual. And he rewards individual achievement. And so, though he uses the stock market as one marker of success, his primary focus is on the individual American citizen. This is why the stimulus money was given to individuals and small businesses rather than large corporations.

Look we will never agree about Covid-19, but look around and see who might be trying to enslave you and devour you. Who is attempting to control you by keeping you "safe?" Safety is good, but safety is NOT our top priority. If it was, we wouldn't drive a car, buy produce from a store, live in a second floor apartment, live in North Dakota, take an ocean cruse, eat sushi or lobster, fly in an airplane, or participate in a downhill cheese-chasing competition.

Living free comes with risks.

Oh my! President Trump is a dangerous man! His main concern has been, is, and will be Donald J. Trump. He doesn't care about the nation as a whole but only those who promote his political agenda.

COVID-19 is an extremely dangerous virus that has infected 3.3 million people in the US, of whom 138,000 have died. Trump has denied the situation as much as he can, including claiming it is a hoax, that it will be over by Easter, that it will disappear on its own, that it will disappear when warm weather arrives, etc. His sole purpose is to keep himself in office, not the health and welfare of American citizens.

Opening the economy and the schools will have one guaranteed result: more people, including children, will become infected and some of them will die. They will spread the disease as long as valid protective measures (excluding bleach and malaria medicine) are not in place.

 

[Behold]

Oh my! President Trump is a dangerous man! His main concern has been, is, and will be Donald J. Trump. He doesn't care about the nation as a whole but only those who promote his political agenda.

COVID-19 is an extremely dangerous virus that has infected 3.3 million people in the US, of whom 138,000 have died. Trump has denied the situation as much as he can, including claiming it is a hoax, that it will be over by Easter, that it will disappear on its own, that it will disappear when warm weather arrives, etc. His sole purpose is to keep himself in office, not the health and welfare of American citizens.

Opening the economy and the schools will have one guaranteed result: more people, including children, will become infected and some of them will die. They will spread the disease as long as valid protective measures (excluding bleach and malaria medicine) are not in place.

So you believe we should all put on 2 masks, and hide under our beds for the next 16 yrs till they may or may not find a "cure" or a "preventive" solution for this Virus.
You want us to hide from it, till then...
Well, i think that an adult should use common sense, and be careful not to get the virus or spread it, but, i dont personally believe im supposed to live my Life in FEAR of it.
Life has to GO ON, no matter how many more viruses come and go, or stay.
Be as careful as you can be, but live your life, as you only have so many years left.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Oh my! President Trump is a dangerous man! His main concern has been, is, and will be Donald J. Trump. He doesn't care about the nation as a whole but only those who promote his political agenda.

COVID-19 is an extremely dangerous virus that has infected 3.3 million people in the US, of whom 138,000 have died. Trump has denied the situation as much as he can, including claiming it is a hoax, that it will be over by Easter, that it will disappear on its own, that it will disappear when warm weather arrives, etc. His sole purpose is to keep himself in office, not the health and welfare of American citizens.

Opening the economy and the schools will have one guaranteed result: more people, including children, will become infected and some of them will die. They will spread the disease as long as valid protective measures (excluding bleach and malaria medicine) are not in place.

First of all, children are not affected. Second, very few people under the age of 45 have died. Third, find another source of information.

 

[Giuliano]

This Covid-19 event is a psy-ops operation intended to frighten the public into submissive compliance to the coming fourth industrial revolution. Corrupt scientists are part of it. Climate Change is one example.

Actually now, there is a virus that can make people sick and even kill them. Taking some precautions can save lives.

If you think it's s psy-ops operation, maybe you should visit Arizona and Texas where not enough was done earlier on about the virus. Now they are asking for refrigerated trucks because they're running out of room in morgues. Sounds pretty real to me.

Story here: Refrigerated trucks requested in Arizona, Texas as morgues reach capacity amid COVID-19 surge

 

[CadyandZoe]

Actually now, there is a virus that can make people sick and even kill them. Taking some precautions can save lives.

If you think it's s psy-ops operation, maybe you should visit Arizona and Texas where not enough was done earlier on about the virus. Now they are asking for refrigerated trucks because they're running out of room in morgues. Sounds pretty real to me.

Story here: Refrigerated trucks requested in Arizona, Texas as morgues reach capacity amid COVID-19 surge

Fake News.