truth only ? No. Not possible here.

[Joseph77]

QUOTE=
=======================================
"amadeus, post: 721068, member: 924"]I agree that the OP alone did not cause confusion, but unless God helps us, we cannot put forth what we want to put forth for Him. With His help all things according His will are possible. Sometimes God, I believe, purposely does not intervene in things like this to help real believers understand that not everyone is on His side, in spite of what they may say. Lots of agendas here that probably are not of God![/QUOTE
=====================================
Good and true. (looks like to me).
Shalom as such - love and seek the truth, as God Permits and as God accomplishes.

 

[Nancy]

ok, then, deciding between chocolate and vanilla is controversial.

Disagree. It's a no brainer!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Paul Christensen]

Jennifer, with all due respect, you have ABSOLUTELY NO CLUE. You might want to simply stop posting until you get a handle on it.

Augustine of Hippo, whose name you carry, would have soundly rebuked you for those remarks. Here is what he said about Christ:

"And hence that true Mediator, in so far as, by assuming the form of a servant, He became the Mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, though in the form of God He received sacrifice together with the Father, with whom He is one God, yet in the form of a servant He chose rather to be than to receive a sacrifice, that not even by this instance any one might have occasion to suppose that sacrifice should be rendered to any creature. Thus He is both the Priest who offers and the Sacrifice offered."

This proves that Jesus is God:
"For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace" (Isaiah 9:6).

This is a Messianic prophecy foretelling the birth of Christ. It is the Holy Spirit describing Jesus Christ as the "Everlasting Father" and the "Mighty God". So, unless the Holy Spirit is lying, which He isn't, because God (the Holy Spirit) is not a man that He should lie, then Jesus Christ is God in the flesh, which is proved by this Scripture:
"And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory" (1 Timothy 3:16).

Because Scripture is interpreted with Scripture, Isaiah 9:6 proves that Paul is correct when he says that it is "God manifest in the flesh", even though the ESV says, "he" instead of "God", explaining that some Greek manuscripts differ. But it is the same Holy Spirit speaking to Isaiah as to Paul, therefore, because the Holy Spirit never contradicts Himself, Jesus, according to Him, is truly God and not just a glorified human being.

 

[Paul Christensen]

Thats called observation. The Lord must separate the sheeps and goats somehow

What separates true believers and followers of pseudo-christian cults is that most cults will deny that Jesus Christ is God, thereby ignoring clear Scripture from Isaiah 9:6 that Jesus Christ, according to the Holy Spirit, is definitely God, because God is the everlasting Father, and the mighty God, and that is how he describes the Messiah, who is Jesus Christ.

If you don't believe that Jesus is God, then the gospel has no effect for you, because only God can take the penalty for your sin upon Himself. Only the God/man Jesus Christ can bear the eternal wrath of God for every sin that man has committed, past, present and future, for the three hours He hung on the cross. No mere human could have endured that eternal wrath. He would have been vaporized.

 

[DNB]

Disagree. It's a no brainer!!!!!!!!!!

Axiomatic is it? lol!

 

[DNB]

What separates true believers and followers of pseudo-christian cults is that most cults will deny that Jesus Christ is God, thereby ignoring clear Scripture from Isaiah 9:6 that Jesus Christ, according to the Holy Spirit, is definitely God, because God is the everlasting Father, and the mighty God, and that is how he describes the Messiah, who is Jesus Christ.

If you don't believe that Jesus is God, then the gospel has no effect for you, because only God can take the penalty for your sin upon Himself. Only the God/man Jesus Christ can bear the eternal wrath of God for every sin that man has committed, past, present and future, for the three hours He hung on the cross. No mere human could have endured that eternal wrath. He would have been vaporized.

Well, that's fine. If he was just vaporized, then he would gone into the clouds and then just come back down again, once it rained. Anyone could've done that?

 

[DNB]

This proves that Jesus is God:
"For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace" (Isaiah 9:6).

This is a Messianic prophecy foretelling the birth of Christ. It is the Holy Spirit describing Jesus Christ as the "Everlasting Father" and the "Mighty God". So, unless the Holy Spirit is lying, which He isn't, because God (the Holy Spirit) is not a man that He should lie, then Jesus Christ is God in the flesh, which is proved by this Scripture:
"And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory" (1 Timothy 3:16).

Because Scripture is interpreted with Scripture, Isaiah 9:6 proves that Paul is correct when he says that it is "God manifest in the flesh", even though the ESV says, "he" instead of "God", explaining that some Greek manuscripts differ. But it is the same Holy Spirit speaking to Isaiah as to Paul, therefore, because the Holy Spirit never contradicts Himself, Jesus, according to Him, is truly God and not just a glorified human being.

THere is not a single trintarian theologian who would every call the Son, the Father, because according to trinitarian theology, that is the only thing that separates them, their names, and absolutely nothing else, since each is god (yes, lower case). So, the Holy Spirit would never, ever make that mistake also, if true, for that is their sole distinction. Thus, these are superlatives and hyperbole that exclaim Christ's majesty and authority, not his deity.

Earliest manuscripts for Timothy 3:16 say Hos, not theos.

 

[Helen]

Thanks my recognition of them is sometimes very slow or lacking! This is perhaps the Body of Christ is to consist of more than one member with more than one purpose. This thread is off the charts.

Agree, off the charts...

This is one of those thread where one feels that they fallen down Alice's rabbit hole ...my head is spinning... lol

 

[Paul Christensen]

THere is not a single trintarian theologian who would every call the Son, the Father, because according to trinitarian theology, that is the only thing that separates them, their names, and absolutely nothing else, since each is god (yes, lower case). So, the Holy Spirit would never, ever make that mistake also, if true, for that is their sole distinction. Thus, these are superlatives and hyperbole that exclaim Christ's majesty and authority, not his deity.

Earliest manuscripts for Timothy 3:16 say Hos, not theos.

You must be either JW, LDS, Christian Science, or Oneness Pentecostal, or Branhamite.

 

[DNB]

You must be either JW, LDS, Christian Science, or Oneness Pentecostal, or Branhamite.

C'mon Paul, someone with your extensive knowledge must be aware of at least one or two 'monotheist' denominations...?
BTW, the ones that you mentioned all deify Christ, don't they (I don't know Brahamite). I certainly do not.

 

[DNB]

You must be either JW, LDS, Christian Science, or Oneness Pentecostal, or Branhamite.

C'mon Paul, someone with your extensive knowledge must be aware of at least one or two 'monotheist' denominations...?
BTW, the ones that you mentioned all deify Christ, don't they (I don't know Brahamite). I certainly do not.

Sorry, I wasn't being difficult, I just wanted to give you an opportunity to guess. I dislike labels, but for the sake of brevity, Unitarian would be an appropriate Christology. Not a Universalist Unitarian, as they are often associated with, for some reason. There are the Christadelphians, The Way, who are Unitarian. I am adamantly non-denominational.
In short, I believe that Jesus was solely a man born around 4 bc, but ordained by God the Father before the beginning of time, to be the Messiah, King of Kings & Lord of Lords . Thus, first-born of creation.
Pre-eminent, not pre-existent or eternal.

 

[Paul Christensen]

C'mon Paul, someone with your extensive knowledge must be aware of at least one or two 'monotheist' denominations...?
BTW, the ones that you mentioned all deify Christ, don't they (I don't know Brahamite). I certainly do not.

C'mon Paul, someone with your extensive knowledge must be aware of at least one or two 'monotheist' denominations...?
BTW, the ones that you mentioned all deify Christ, don't they (I don't know Brahamite). I certainly do not.

Sorry, I wasn't being difficult, I just wanted to give you an opportunity to guess. I dislike labels, but for the sake of brevity, Unitarian would be an appropriate Christology. Not a Universalist Unitarian, as they are often associated with, for some reason. There are the Christadelphians, The Way, who are Unitarian. I am adamantly non-denominational.
In short, I believe that Jesus was solely a man born around 4 bc, but ordained by God the Father before the beginning of time, to be the Messiah, King of Kings & Lord of Lords . Thus, first-born of creation.
Pre-eminent, not pre-existent or eternal.

I understand.

I am non-denominational at present because we are in lockdown here and can't attend church. However, when I moved to New Brighton in December I didn't want to go to a church where I would have to drive across town, so I just went to the closest one which is a Methodist/Presbyterian Union church that had 10 ladies and one man, so when I joined it I increased the male membership by 100%!

But it is a liberal church and the minister doesn't believe that Genesis 1-11 are history, but are myths. I believe that treating Genesis 1-11 as myths and not history is actually denying the gospel - in fact there is no gospel with that belief. So I think I am at that church as a type of missionary for Biblical truth and the true gospel. But they have made me very welcome, and they are a great group of people, so I am trusting that God will use me there to have an influence for the true God of the Bible instead of the god of the liberalist imagination.

So I am non-denominational in heart and spirit, but just happen to attend a particular church on Sunday mornings.

 

[DNB]

I understand.

I am non-denominational at present because we are in lockdown here and can't attend church. However, when I moved to New Brighton in December I didn't want to go to a church where I would have to drive across town, so I just went to the closest one which is a Methodist/Presbyterian Union church that had 10 ladies and one man, so when I joined it I increased the male membership by 100%!

But it is a liberal church and the minister doesn't believe that Genesis 1-11 are history, but are myths. I believe that treating Genesis 1-11 as myths and not history is actually denying the gospel - in fact there is no gospel with that belief. So I think I am at that church as a type of missionary for Biblical truth and the true gospel. But they have made me very welcome, and they are a great group of people, so I am trusting that God will use me there to have an influence for the true God of the Bible instead of the god of the liberalist imagination.

So I am non-denominational in heart and spirit, but just happen to attend a particular church on Sunday mornings.

Understood, ...been there also most of my Christian life, hanging out with certain groups not as a member, but just as a participant.
...you mentioned in one of your posts, your adherence to the Westminster Confession. I presumed that that would make you Presbyterian, or at least Reformed? But, I think that we all have a diversity of tenets that we believe, from various faiths. I sure do.

 

[Joseph77]

I certainly do not.

Whoever rejects Jesus, has already rejected His Father, and His Word.

 

[Jay Ross]

Hi Jay,

No, Jesus does not have the lead in the two parables. He is the orator!

Mary

So Mary, if the lead role in these parables is not Jesus, then who is it?

Who is the one who goes away and when will/has that happened?

 

[DNB]

Whoever rejects Jesus, has already rejected His Father, and His Word.

Yes Joseph, so you need to be careful. He who calls Jesus God, has denied the Son.

 

[Joseph77]

Your heresy is an old one. Nothing further need be said.

Yes Joseph, so you need to be careful. He who calls Jesus God, has denied the Son.

 

[Paul Christensen]

Understood, ...been there also most of my Christian life, hanging out with certain groups not as a member, but just as a participant.
...you mentioned in one of your posts, you adherence to the Westminster Confession. I presumed that that would make you Presbyterian, or at least Reformed? But, I think that we all have a diversity of tenets that we believe, from various faiths. I sure do.

I an an ordained elder of the PCANZ, and was an elder of St Aidan's Presbyterian church in Conifer Grove, Auckland for around 20 years. I left it to move to Christchurch NZ in December last year.

 

[DNB]

Your heresy is an old one. Nothing further need be said.

Did you think that I was going to give in, just because you look like a sheep?

 

[DNB]

I an an ordained elder of the PCANZ, and was an elder of St Aidan's Presbyterian church in Conifer Grove, Auckland for around 20 years. I left it to move to Christchurch NZ in December last year.

Fantastic, you've had both a knowledgeable, and influential career in the ministry.
Best of luck at Christchurch NZ!