Two Ways of thinking about OSAS

[H. Richard]

The issue as you put it was teachers and God gave teachers under the old Covenant and under the New Covenant so the only ignorance it's being portrayed here is yours and not identifying what the actual issue is that you posted.
By the way I don't have to give God anything, he has it all including all the glory. If you want to give God anything, give him your respect and believe in what His written word tells us.

foolishness! I am to believe what you tell me the words say, right? Not in this life nor the next. Salvation is a gift from God who did everything necessary for salvation for those that will place their trust in Him. But religious people place their trust in the ideas of men. Religious people do not know that the Holy Spirit exists much less that He can teach the children of God.

God has given us the only words we need for salvation in the scriptures. But men do not believe the scriptures.

Where Paul said that the gospel he preached was HIDDEN IN GOD, men say it wasn't. I believe what God gave me in His word, that Paul was sent to me, a Gentile. I believe Paul's gospel of grace was given for me and I will trust in it.

 

[OzSpen]

The scriptures teach me that if I trust in the ideas of men I am building my house on a foundation of sand. I will build my house on the foundation of God's words as written in the Bible. I will trust in the words that Jesus gave Paul for us. By the way it is the Holy Spirit that teaches the children of God, not man.

1 Cor 2:12-14
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God.
13 These things we also speak, not in words which man's wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
NKJV

2 Sam 22:31
31 As for God, His way is perfect; The word of the Lord is proven; He is a shield to all who trust in Him.
NKJV

1 Chron 5:20
20 And they were helped against them, and the Hagrites were delivered into their hand, and all who were with them, for they cried out to God in the battle. He heeded their prayer, because they put their trust in Him.
NKJV

Ps 2:12
12 Kiss the Son, lest He be angry, And you perish in the way, When His wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all those who put their trust in Him.
NKJV

Ps 5:11
11 But let all those rejoice who put their trust in You; Let them ever shout for joy, because You defend them; Let those also who love Your name Be joyful in You.
NKJV

Ps 17:7
7 Show Your marvelous lovingkindness by Your right hand, O You who save those who trust in You From those who rise up against them.
NKJV

Ps 18:30
30 As for God, His way is perfect; The word of the Lord is proven; He is a shield to all who trust in Him.
NKJV

Ps 37:40
40 And the Lord shall help them and deliver them; He shall deliver them from the wicked, And save them, Because they trust in Him.
NKJV

Trusting in a religion is not the same as trusting in Jesus.
.

This is a red herring of a reply because you didn't address the issues I raised, but went off at your own tangent.

 

[H. Richard]

The issue as you put it was teachers and God gave teachers under the old Covenant and under the New Covenant so the only ignorance it's being portrayed here is yours and not identifying what the actual issue is that you posted.
By the way I don't have to give God anything, he has it all including all the glory. If you want to give God anything, give him your respect and believe in what His written word tells us.

No, you want me to believe in what the word tells you and I disagree with you on what the word says.

Eph 3:9-11
9 and to make all see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the ages has been hidden in God who created all things through Jesus Christ;
10 to the intent that """now""" the manifold wisdom of God might be made known by the church to the principalities and powers in the heavenly places,
11 according to the eternal purpose which He accomplished in Christ Jesus our Lord,
NKJV

Col 1:25-27
25 of which I became a minister according to the stewardship from God which was given to me for you, to fulfill the word of God,
26 the mystery which has been hidden from ages and from generations, but """now""" has been revealed to His saints.
27 To them God willed to make known what are the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles: which is Christ in you, the hope of glory.
NKJV

You, and those like you, will not admit that the grace gospel given to Paul was unique and had been hidden in God to be sent to the Gentiles through Paul after the Jews refused Jesus as their Messiah and King.

Deut 29:29
29 "The secret things belong to the Lord our God, but those things which are revealed belong to us and to our children forever, that we may do all the words of this law.
NKJV
.

 

[StanJ]

No, you want me to believe in what the word tells you and I disagree with you on what the word says.

Of course I want you to believe what the word tells you why would you not want to? Do you think the Bible contradicts itself?

Eph 4:11-16
11 So Christ himself gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the pastors and teachers, 12 to equip his people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up 13 until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ.
14 Then we will no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of people in their deceitful scheming. 15 Instead, speaking the truth in love, we will grow to become in every respect the mature body of him who is the head, that is, Christ. 16 From him the whole body, joined and held together by every supporting ligament, grows and builds itself up in love, as each part does its work.


All you have to do is read this with comprehension...it's very simple.

 

[H. Richard]

Of course I want you to believe what the word tells you why would you not want to? Do you think the Bible contradicts itself?

Eph 4:11-16
11 So Christ himself gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the pastors and teachers, 12 to equip his people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up 13 until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ.
14 Then we will no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of people in their deceitful scheming. 15 Instead, speaking the truth in love, we will grow to become in every respect the mature body of him who is the head, that is, Christ. 16 From him the whole body, joined and held together by every supporting ligament, grows and builds itself up in love, as each part does its work.


All you have to do is read this with comprehension...it's very simple.

You said; "Of course I want you to believe what the word tells you why would you not want to? Do you think the Bible contradicts itself?

Get over it StanJ. Every church denomination tells it's members what the leaders think the words say and many disagree and we now have many different views of what the words say Your view is just your view as is mine.

As for putting your faith in the belief of your church leaders how do you know they are right? Oh, I get it, the right ones are those that believe as you do, right?
.
1 Tim 1:5-7
5 Now the purpose of the commandment is love from a pure heart, from a good conscience, and from sincere faith,
6 from which some, having strayed, have turned aside to idle talk,
7 desiring to be teachers of the law,
NKJV

Who are the some that are teaching the law? Look on the forums and you will find them.

2 Tim 1:13-15
13 Hold fast the pattern of sound words which you have heard from me, in faith and love which are in Christ Jesus.
14 That good thing which was committed to you, keep by the Holy Spirit who dwells in us.
15 This you know, that all those in Asia have turned away from me, among whom are Phygellus and Hermogenes.
NKJV

How do you know which ones have turned away?

2 Cor 11:13-15
13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into apostles of Christ.
14 And no wonder! For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light.
15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also transform themselves into ministers of righteousness, whose end will be according to their works.
NKJV

The scriptures tell me that I am to trust God. Those that trust in man will not make it to heaven.

 

[StanJ]

You said; "Of course I want you to believe what the word tells you why would you not want to? Do you think the Bible contradicts itself?

Get over it StanJ. Every church denomination tells it's members what the leaders think the words say and many disagree and we now have many different views of what the words say Your view is just your view as is mine.

As for putting your faith in the belief of your church leaders how do you know they are right? Oh, I get it, the right ones are those that believe as you do, right?
.
1 Tim 1:5-7
5 Now the purpose of the commandment is love from a pure heart, from a good conscience, and from sincere faith,
6 from which some, having strayed, have turned aside to idle talk,
7 desiring to be teachers of the law,
NKJV

Who are the some that are teaching the law? Look on the forums and you will find them.

2 Tim 1:13-15
13 Hold fast the pattern of sound words which you have heard from me, in faith and love which are in Christ Jesus.
14 That good thing which was committed to you, keep by the Holy Spirit who dwells in us.
15 This you know, that all those in Asia have turned away from me, among whom are Phygellus and Hermogenes.
NKJV

How do you know which ones have turned away?

2 Cor 11:13-15
13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into apostles of Christ.
14 And no wonder! For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light.
15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also transform themselves into ministers of righteousness, whose end will be according to their works.
NKJV
The scriptures tell me that I am to trust God. Those that trust in man will not make it to heaven.

You're just repeating yourself and not answering any of the questions I asked you. Is this Mantra all you're going to do on this thread?

 

[mjrhealth]

11 So Christ himself gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the pastors and teachers, 12 to equip his people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up

Yes it is Christ who calls men to serve Him, it it not any mans choice to do so, as it says.

Rom 10:15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

or

Joh_1:6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.

Techers are suppose to send people to Jesus not keep them from Him.

 

[H. Richard]

Yes it is Christ who calls men to serve Him, it it not any mans choice to do so, as it says.

Rom 10:15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

or

Joh_1:6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.

Techers are suppose to send people to Jesus not keep them from Him.

You got it right

 

[H. Richard]

You're just repeating yourself and not answering any of the questions I asked you. Is this Mantra all you're going to do on this thread?

If you don't like what I write then quit reading it.

 

[StanJ]

If you don't like what I write then quit reading it.

It's like a train wreck you see coming... You know it's going to end up in a horrible mess but you just can't help watching it.

 

[Phoneman777]

You got it right

Don't know if i asked you this, friend. What do you say to the fact that in the parable of the Unmerciful Servant, the Servant begged for forgiveness, received it, went out forgiven, but because he refused to allow his character to be conformed to the likeness of the character of his Lord, he found himself once again condemned to repay the entire impossible debt for which he had already been forgiven?

 

[H. Richard]

Don't know if i asked you this, friend. What do you say to the fact that in the parable of the Unmerciful Servant, the Servant begged for forgiveness, received it, went out forgiven, but because he refused to allow his character to be conformed to the likeness of the character of his Lord, he found himself once again condemned to repay the entire impossible debt for which he had already been forgiven?

Jesus was under the law of Moses just as were all Jews including the 12. In other words He taught the meaning of the law of Moses to the people to whom it was given. What He said was to the Jews to hear. Can't you see that Jesus came to those under the law of Moses that He had given them. Jesus never gave the law of Moses to the Gentiles.

Why do people always try to put those under law WITH those who are not under the law??? Why do the Gentiles strive to keep a law that was never given to them? Why can't people see the truth in what Jesus said??

Let me make it clear that Jesus Christ, by His own words, did not come to minister to the Gentiles, nor was His message "the kingdom gospel" sent to the Gentiles. He did not offer the "kingdom of heaven" TO the Gentiles. The following scriptures support my view.

Matt 10:5-7 (NKJ)
5 These twelve Jesus sent out and commanded them, saying: "Do not go into the way of the Gentiles, and do not enter a city of the Samaritans.

6 "But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
7 "And as you go, preach, saying, 'The kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Matt 15:23-24 (NKJ)
23 But He answered her not a word. And His disciples came and urged Him, saying, "Send her away, for she cries out after us."
24 But He answered and said, "I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

Paul said: Rom 15:8 (NKJ)
8 Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:

Note that in Matt 10:5-7 and Matt 15:23-24 Jesus said He did not come EXCEPT to the house of Israel. Jesus came to confirm/fulfill all that was written of Him in the O.T. His mission was to the Jews, not to the Gentiles. This is what Paul meant in Rom 15:8.

 

[Phoneman777]

Jesus was under the law of Moses just as were all Jews including the 12. In other words He taught the meaning of the law of Moses to the people to whom it was given. What He said was to the Jews to hear. Can't you see that Jesus came to those under the law of Moses that He had given them. Jesus never gave the law of Moses to the Gentiles.

Why do people always try to put those under law WITH those who are not under the law??? Why do the Gentiles strive to keep a law that was never given to them? Why can't people see the truth in what Jesus said??

Let me make it clear that Jesus Christ, by His own words, did not come to minister to the Gentiles, nor was His message "the kingdom gospel" sent to the Gentiles. He did not offer the "kingdom of heaven" TO the Gentiles. The following scriptures support my view.

Matt 10:5-7 (NKJ)
5 These twelve Jesus sent out and commanded them, saying: "Do not go into the way of the Gentiles, and do not enter a city of the Samaritans.

6 "But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
7 "And as you go, preach, saying, 'The kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Matt 15:23-24 (NKJ)
23 But He answered her not a word. And His disciples came and urged Him, saying, "Send her away, for she cries out after us."
24 But He answered and said, "I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

Paul said: Rom 15:8 (NKJ)
8 Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:

Note that in Matt 10:5-7 and Matt 15:23-24 Jesus said He did not come EXCEPT to the house of Israel. Jesus came to confirm/fulfill all that was written of Him in the O.T. His mission was to the Jews, not to the Gentiles. This is what Paul meant in Rom 15:8.

Friend, although this forum topic is about OSAS (which is why I asked you to comment about the Unmerciful Servant having come under condemnation of the very thing for which he had been fully forgiven - which disproves OSAS, it seems), I'll simply say that the Bible makes a clear distinction between the Moral Law of Ten Commandments which existed before Sinai and will always exist, and the Mosaic Law of Moses which began at Sinai and ended at the Cross. That is why Christians are not obligated to get circumcised, sacrifice lambs, attend yearly Jerusalem Feasts, etc. but are not at liberty to worship Satan (Thou shalt have no other gods before Me), murder (Thou shalt not murder), etc. It's really that simple. If you'd like chapter and verse examples of the distinction between these two laws, it's no problem. The NT is clear from Matthew to Revelation that those who willfully break the Ten Commandments will not gain entrance to the kingdom no matter what their profession about Jesus, because obedience is the proof that Jesus indwells the heart, without which we are incapable of desire to keep the Ten Commandments, let alone actually keep them, friend.

Again, salvation is dependent ALONE Jesus being made our Savior and Lord of our lives and obedience to Him is the proof that He is accepted in the life as such. Conversely, disobedience is proof that we lack salvation. Jesus wants to give us victory over every vile habit and tendency in our lives, and if we will but let Him, we too can "walk even as He walked".

 

[H. Richard]

Friend, although this forum topic is about OSAS (which is why I asked you to comment about the Unmerciful Servant having come under condemnation of the very thing for which he had been fully forgiven - which disproves OSAS, it seems), I'll simply say that the Bible makes a clear distinction between the Moral Law of Ten Commandments which existed before Sinai and will always exist, and the Mosaic Law of Moses which began at Sinai and ended at the Cross. That is why Christians are not obligated to get circumcised, sacrifice lambs, attend yearly Jerusalem Feasts, etc. but are not at liberty to worship Satan (Thou shalt have no other gods before Me), murder (Thou shalt not murder), etc. It's really that simple. If you'd like chapter and verse examples of the distinction between these two laws, it's no problem. The NT is clear from Matthew to Revelation that those who willfully break the Ten Commandments will not gain entrance to the kingdom no matter what their profession about Jesus, because obedience is the proof that Jesus indwells the heart, without which we are incapable of desire to keep the Ten Commandments, let alone actually keep them, friend.

Again, salvation is dependent ALONE Jesus being made our Savior and Lord of our lives and obedience to Him is the proof that He is accepted in the life as such. Conversely, disobedience is proof that we lack salvation. Jesus wants to give us victory over every vile habit and tendency in our lives, and if we will but let Him, we too can "walk even a

When Jesus said this about the Unmerciful Servant he was teaching the law to the Jews who were under the law. In this age of grace the Law of Moses has been set aside. Jesus nailed it to His cross. But I know that really upsets the religious.

I have heard all this before. It is said by those that think they can keep the Law of Moses by dividing it into two parts and thinking they are keeping part of it. But sinful flesh can not keep any part of it. If they could they could boast of it. And by the way you are boasting about it by letting others think you are keeping a part of it.

Salvation is the work of God for all those that will trust in His work on the cross. But religious mankind will not trust in anything but their religions and their works in it

Under grace all that is required is that a person place their belief, faith, trust, confidence in Jesus' promise of salvation through His shed blood that paid for all the sins of the world and if they do then they are made children of God, BY GOD, and HE has promised that no one can take them out of His hands. I have placed my eternal future in the hands of God by trusting in His grace.

Yes I believe in OSAS. To not believe in it would show that I do not have faith in His work on the cross..

 

[Phoneman777]

When Jesus said this about the Unmerciful Servant he was teaching the law to the Jews who were under the law. In this age of grace the Law of Moses has been set aside. Jesus nailed it to His cross. But I know that really upsets the religious.

I have heard all this before. It is said by those that think they can keep the Law of Moses by dividing it into two parts and thinking they are keeping part of it. But sinful flesh can not keep any part of it. If they could they could boast of it. And by the way you are boasting about it by letting others think you are keeping a part of it.

Salvation is the work of God for all those that will trust in His work on the cross. But religious mankind will not trust in anything but their religions and their works in it

Under grace all that is required is that a person place their belief, faith, trust, confidence in Jesus' promise of salvation through His shed blood that paid for all the sins of the world and if they do then they are made children of God, BY GOD, and HE has promised that no one can take them out of His hands. I have placed my eternal future in the hands of God by trusting in His grace.

Yes I believe in OSAS. To not believe in it would show that I do not have faith in His work on the cross..

So, as a Christian, are you at liberty to have Satan as your primary God? What about sleeping with your best friend's wife? What about stealing money from your boss?

It's plain and simple, friend: if you love God, you will keep the first four and if you love your neighbor, the last six.

The popular idea that "Christians are not obligated to keep the Ten Commandments but are not at liberty to break them" defies logic. It can only be either one or the other. If you are living in sin, get converted and put away that sin before you lose the ability to repent and find yourself lost, friend. Remember, God's mercy does not cover willful, known sin, from which we refuse to repent.

 

[H. Richard]

So, as a Christian, are you at liberty to have Satan as your primary God? What about sleeping with your best friend's wife? What about stealing money from your boss?

It's plain and simple, friend: if you love God, you will keep the first four and if you love your neighbor, the last six.

The popular idea that "Christians are not obligated to keep the Ten Commandments but are not at liberty to break them" defies logic. It can only be either one or the other. If you are living in sin, get converted and put away that sin before you lose the ability to repent and find yourself lost, friend. Remember, God's mercy does not cover willful, known sin, from which we refuse to repent.

Spoken like a person who thinks they no longer sin in the flesh. But if they do they can repent and get saved all over again. If YOU loved God you would give Him credit for your salvation instead of proclaiming that those that commit sins of the flesh are not saved. There is a word for those that point to others for their sins and refuse to see their own sins. I think that word is Hypocrite. If you loved God you would be proclaiming the gospel of His grace, His works, not your works.

The problem with those that think your way is that they never seem to see the sins they commit. They only seem to see that everyone else is sinning. Especially those that have placed all their faith in the work of God on the cross.

You said "So, as a Christian, are you at liberty to have Satan as your primary God?" -- You are trying to put your words in my mouth. The truth is that people that say these things to a child of God have Satan as their God;. Satan is a deceiver and many are doing the same thing their father (Satan) does.

You don't like me because I have placed all my belief, faith, trust, and confidence in Jesus' shed blood on the cross. Paul was always having to resist the Judaizers of his day. The Judaizers were trying to get the Gentile converts to go under the Law of Moses. I think that you, and all those that do it, are the Judaizers of today.

 

[mjrhealth]

It always ends up teh same for those who insist on the law,

Luk 18:10 Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.
Luk 18:11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
Luk 18:12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
Luk 18:13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
Luk 18:14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

The law has always being about self justification, it is a work in itself which breaks teh commandemnt of teh sabbath. It also makes men boasters of self," I am not like all those other sinners". It makes a mockery of what Christ did, it rejects Grace, it makes men proud. Always has always will. And steals Gods glory from Him.

 

[7angels]

When Jesus said this about the Unmerciful Servant he was teaching the law to the Jews who were under the law. In this age of grace the Law of Moses has been set aside. Jesus nailed it to His cross. But I know that really upsets the religious.

I have heard all this before. It is said by those that think they can keep the Law of Moses by dividing it into two parts and thinking they are keeping part of it. But sinful flesh can not keep any part of it. If they could they could boast of it. And by the way you are boasting about it by letting others think you are keeping a part of it.

Salvation is the work of God for all those that will trust in His work on the cross. But religious mankind will not trust in anything but their religions and their works in it

Under grace all that is required is that a person place their belief, faith, trust, confidence in Jesus' promise of salvation through His shed blood that paid for all the sins of the world and if they do then they are made children of God, BY GOD, and HE has promised that no one can take them out of His hands. I have placed my eternal future in the hands of God by trusting in His grace.

Yes I believe in OSAS. To not believe in it would show that I do not have faith in His work on the cross..

i read several of your posts. if i miss understand please feel free to correct me.

first you place a lot of emphasis on the law of the old testament being void.
1. with the death and resurrection of Christ we are no longer under the law. are we still responsible to follow the commandments within the law? if the law is good then would it not benefit us to obey what the law was written for? for isn't true that God's law is no longer written on tablets of stone or paper but upon our hearts now? are we not supposed to still follow the law but also know that we are not be worry about being condemned under the law? remember that the old testament is a type and shadow of the new testament. so the things of the old testament still stands. according to the word Jesus made the law of the new testament even more strict then in the old testament. Jesus added intent not just action into the law. in other words thinking it is the same as committing it.

second you talk about believing in once saved always saved.
1. if a person who does not know what is right or wrong will they go to heaven or hell? a baby just born dies, does it go to heaven or hell? if a baby goes to heaven but as it get bigger rejects salvation will it still go to heaven? this is an example of being saved first but losing their salvation because of decisions made as they grow older. remember God is the same yesterday , today, and forever so why would God change his mind by saying "i made everyone so that they can be with me" and so makes us all innocent so that should anything happen we will end up in heaven but then as we grow older he changes his mind and allows us to be sent to hell. how is this once saved always saved? since God is not a respecter of persons or age then why would it matter if osas needs to start at the time of accepting Jesus as Lord and Savior?

sorry i have to go. i will respond more later.

God bless

 

[H. Richard]

i read several of your posts. if i miss understand please feel free to correct me.

first you place a lot of emphasis on the law of the old testament being void.
1. with the death and resurrection of Christ we are no longer under the law. are we still responsible to follow the commandments within the law? if the law is good then would it not benefit us to obey what the law was written for? for isn't true that God's law is no longer written on tablets of stone or paper but upon our hearts now? are we not supposed to still follow the law but also know that we are not be worry about being condemned under the law? remember that the old testament is a type and shadow of the new testament. so the things of the old testament still stands. according to the word Jesus made the law of the new testament even more strict then in the old testament. Jesus added intent not just action into the law. in other words thinking it is the same as committing it.

second you talk about believing in once saved always saved.
1. if a person who does not know what is right or wrong will they go to heaven or hell? a baby just born dies, does it go to heaven or hell? if a baby goes to heaven but as it get bigger rejects salvation will it still go to heaven? this is an example of being saved first but losing their salvation because of decisions made as they grow older. remember God is the same yesterday , today, and forever so why would God change his mind by saying "i made everyone so that they can be with me" and so makes us all innocent so that should anything happen we will end up in heaven but then as we grow older he changes his mind and allows us to be sent to hell. how is this once saved always saved? since God is not a respecter of persons or age then why would it matter if osas needs to start at the time of accepting Jesus as Lord and Savior?

sorry i have to go. i will respond more later.

God bless

I have found that the children of God love each other and seek the others welfare. I also see that the children of God Love the unsaved and are at work trying to get them to trust in Jesus's work on the cross and Jesus' message of grace He gave to Paul for us.
.
I see in the scriptures that ever since the Jews rejected Jesus as their Messiah and King Jesus has turned to the Gentiles with a new gospel of His grace, This gospel of grace tells us that His work, His shed blood, on the cross has paid for all the sins of the world. Every man, woman and child has been set free of the Law of Moses since Jesus has already paid for their sins of the flesh.

The only thing that condemns men and women in this age of grace is the sin of unbelief. That is to NOT believe and trust in Jesus' shed blood on the cross. I know of no child of God that loves having to live in a body of sinful flesh. Since they know they live in sinful flesh they honor God by trusting in His Son's work on the cross. They glorify Jesus' work and do not boast of their own like the self-righteous do.

 

[7angels]

I have found that the children of God love each other and seek the others welfare. I also see that the children of God Love the unsaved and are at work trying to get them to trust in Jesus's work on the cross and Jesus' message of grace He gave to Paul for us.
.
if this what you see then i applaud you. for you are are the right track and so are those around you. but in my experience this is far and in between. but most christian people are not lovingly responding like this but try and shove Jesus down their throats. if you doubt me then ask many unbelievers what they think. asking unbelievers is the best way to judge how your actions are influencing others.

I see in the scriptures that ever since the Jews rejected Jesus as their Messiah and King Jesus has turned to the Gentiles with a new gospel of His grace, This gospel of grace tells us that His work, His shed blood, on the cross has paid for all the sins of the world. Every man, woman and child has been set free of the Law of Moses since Jesus has already paid for their sins of the flesh.

according to jonah it has been God's will to save not only the jews but the gentiles too. my belief is that the jews were meant to go to the ends of the earth to bring God's gospel to the rest of the world. but due the jews attitude of superiority God passed over them and thus the church was born.

The only thing that condemns men and women in this age of grace is the sin of unbelief.

you say this but please show me in scripture where this is the only thing that condemns mankind. not believing in Jesus condemns mankind to hell is one of several i know about.

That is to NOT believe and trust in Jesus' shed blood on the cross. I know of no child of God that loves having to live in a body of sinful flesh. Since they know they live in sinful flesh they honor God by trusting in His Son's work on the cross. They glorify Jesus' work and do not boast of their own like the self-righteous do.

to my knowledge at this time there is no scripture that says the flesh is evil. the Word tells us that the flesh has a mind of its own and like to follow the things of this world. so no matter who we are i believe even a child of God who decides to give in to his fleshly desires will enjoy themselves even if only for a time.

God bless