Two Ways of thinking about OSAS

[H. Richard]

Intimidation / Coercion:

The above has been used by the religious since day one. The RCC used it to force the people and kings of Europe and the UK to support the RCC.

What the RCC did is to force people to serve the RCC with their money and servitude. If a King ,or any of the people, refused to accept the RCC dictates they were threatened with being put out of the church, and, or, burned at the stake. To them that meant to be on their way to hell.

But this intimidation / coercion was not limited to the RCC. It was also used in the Protestant churches. Even though we are not under the Law of Moses many tell others that they are “robbing God” if they don’t tithe 10%.

In all the religious churches it is taught that if a person does not believe what they say the scriptures mean they are a heretic, teaching heretical ideas and, by implication, going to hell. That is their way of forcing by intimidation / coercion others to believe as they do.

One of the truths that I know is that if it were not for men of courage who were courageous enough to step outside of the religious boxes the religious built for them we would all be under the rule of the Jewish Law of Moses as seen and dictated by the RCC.

Have the courage to step out of the box into the light.

 

[FHII]

The 1,000 year reign of a Jewish kingdom was promised to the Jews. It was not promised to the Gentiles.

God has another plan for those saved under grace. We are in heavenly places.

Never said it was offered to the gentiles. Look ay Rev 7:4-8. It was offered to the 12 tribes of Israel. Only 1/12 to the tribe of Judah and 1/12 to Benjamin (who were also of the kingdom of Judah).

 

[FHII]

I take issue with you on the devil comment. There has never been a salvation offered to Satan and his dominions. You are just using this to foster your idea that Jesus only paid for a person's sin before they believed in Jesus and they must continue to repent daily in order for God to forgive them.

You, like all of the religious, use fear to intimidate others to you ideas and I do not believe you. I will believe the scriptures.

Normally I would include scriptures to prove what I believe but I will not continue to do so because it falls on deaf ears.

Actually there isn't a verse that says Satan or any devil believes Jesus offers salvation. They use James 2 and Acts 16 to try to make that point, but reading those verses carefully... They never say that.

 

[Phoneman777]

"A sincere commitment to believe in Jesus Christ" does incorporate repentance and surrender (for me also). However my comment was if relation to the topic "OSAS". But thank you for your comment, God bless

I agree with that. We are saved by grace but we are judged by our works for our works indicate whether or not we have been saved.

 

[Phoneman777]

I take issue with you on the devil comment. There has never been a salvation offered to Satan and his dominions. You are just using this to foster your idea that Jesus only paid for a person's sin before they believed in Jesus and they must continue to repent daily in order for God to forgive them.

You, like all of the religious, use fear to intimidate others to you ideas and I do not believe you. I will believe the scriptures.

Normally I would include scriptures to prove what I believe but I will not continue to do so because it falls on deaf ears

That is a presumptuous claim - the Bible is silent on whether Satan was offered pardon. However, if John 14:9 KJV and 2 Corinthians 4:4 KJV are any basis for an assumption, then we can assume that God most definitely did. The story of David and Absalom is also a picture of that heavenly rebellion, which is climaxed with David uncontrollably weeping deeply and bitterly over the loss of his beautiful, beloved son who became so obsessed with himself that he led a rebellion in which he tried to kill own his father and seize his throne.

The devils obviously believe Jesus is Lord and Savior, and I believe they are now beyond the grace that was once offered them by their own stubborn persistence in rebellion - not by the hand of a some cruel, merciless, withholding celestial dictator. The same fate awaits those of us who, like them, burn out their consciences through persistent refusal to turn from sin because that sin the blood of Jesus can never and will never cover, per Proverbs 28:13 KJV.

A wife's insistence that her husband be faithful is not "fear and intimidation", it is a reasonable demand, and God says the same: "...present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable unto the Lord, which is your reasonable service."

 

[Phoneman777]

Actually there isn't a verse that says Satan or any devil believes Jesus offers salvation. They use James 2 and Acts 16 to try to make that point, but reading those verses carefully... They never say that.

Why would Satan work so hard to distort the Gospel or keep as many people from hearing the Gospel if he didn't think Jesus offers salvation? Obviously, because he believes every word of the truth, power, and efficacy of that Gospel to change the hearts of his servants into born-again servants of Jesus.

If only those who claim to love God would believe in the power of the Gospel as much as Satan does, rather than engaging in an endless round of excuses for why they can't stop doing the things that made necessary the death of Jesus on the Cross in the first place...

 

[FHII]

Actually I do have to somewhat retract my statement. Not because of what Phoneman said, bu because legion actually did know who Jesus was.

 

[T1m0thy]

I agree with that. We are saved by grace but we are judged by our works for our works indicate whether or not we have been saved.

I also agree with your statement. You wrote this to me, and your reasoning for doing so is?

 

[FHII]

I also agree with your statement. You wrote this to me, and your reasoning for doing so is?

Sorry to hear you agree with that T1mthy, because its absolutely false.


You're woeks only justify you in the eyes of men, not God. Paul and James actually agree on that.

 

[heretoeternity]

As Paul said in Romans...it is DOERS of the law which are justified, NOT hearers only of the Law...

 

[StanJ]

As Paul said in Romans...it is DOERS of the law which are justified, NOT hearers only of the Law...

What Paul said and Romans 2, was; All who have sinned under the law will be judged by the law. For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous before God, but those who do the law will be declared righteous.

So unless you're a Jew and you can live under the law without sinning then this doesn't apply to you, or anyone that this isn't addressed to.

 

[heretoeternity]

What Paul said and Romans 2, was; All who have sinned under the law will be judged by the law. For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous before God, but those who do the law will be declared righteous.

So unless you're a Jew and you can live under the law without sinning then this doesn't apply to you, or anyone that this isn't addressed to.

You should have read further in Chapter 2 of Romans...2.13....doers of the law are justifed....James 1.22 says basically the same thing.

 

[StanJ]

You should have read further in Chapter 2 of Romans...2.13....doers of the law are justifed....James 1.22 says basically the same thing.

Only IF they are living under the law. That is the whole point about what Paul is writing here. Those who are under the law will be judged by the law and those who are not under the law will be judged by what they themselves know to be God's law. One cannot be justified by the law if they are not living under the law or living under the old Covenant and his Christians don't live under the law that live under the New Covenant then they will not be judged by the law but by what God has written on their hearts and in their lives.
What James says is that Believers must live out the message not just listen to the message. The message is not the law the message is Jesus Christ and him crucified.

 

[heretoeternity]

Wrong Stan j....Everyone is living under God's law..gentiles were grafted into the jewish tree, and as such are as one in Christ..no differentian Romans 11...

 

[StanJ]

Wrong Stan j....Everyone is living under God's law..gentiles were grafted into the jewish tree, and as such are as one in Christ..no differentian Romans 11...

It's not a Jewish tree it's a tree with Jesus as the root and the fact is that there was not ever only Jewish branches. There's no differentiation then why are you differentiating?

 

[Dcopymope]

Wrong Stan j....Everyone is living under God's law..gentiles were grafted into the jewish tree, and as such are as one in Christ..no differentian Romans 11...

You can claim to be living under the law of Moses but the promised redemption is not justified by the law of Moses but by grace through your faith in Jesus, as stated in Acts 13:39. Romans 11:6 also makes this very clear that if the elect is redeemed by grace, then it cannot by default be of works.

 

[Dcopymope]

It's not a Jewish tree it's a tree with Jesus as the root and the fact is that there was not ever only Jewish branches. There's no differentiation then why are you differentiating?

I was getting ready post the same thing. The Jews don't own the tree, Jesus does, because he IS the tree. The natural Jewish branch, as of right now have been cut off from the tree, to be redeemed at the right time.

 

[heretoeternity]

Stan J and Dco..yes we are not under the law of Moses or Mosaic law you are right..the sacriicial, feast, circumcision laws are gone Acts 15 with the exception of 4
This has no bearing on God's law, the Ten commandments, of which we are all under...Jesus says if, Paul says it, James says it, Peter says it, apostle John says.....so suggest you read you Bibles and get up to speed on this issue.

 

[T1m0thy]

Sorry to hear you agree with that T1mthy, because its absolutely false.


You're woeks only justify you in the eyes of men, not God. Paul and James actually agree on that.

All men will be judged according to their "works" has stated in numerous passages of scripture. Mt 16:27, James 2:18, 2:20. 2:24, 2:26, Rev 2:26, 20:12 and 20:13. However, once one is saved by grace and their sins wash away through the blood of Jesus, they are then filled with His Holy Spirit guiding them in God's righteousness to "good works". Jesus said He would loose nothing the Father has giving Him... MT 7:18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Following God's righteousness given through His Holy Spirit is how one knows they are saved. Please comment should you feel I have misinterpreted. God bless

 

[mjrhealth]

his has no bearing on God's law, the Ten commandments,

But it does, as the Law, the ten commandments was given to Moses to give to the israelites, it was never given to us, the sacrifiial laws where to pay for the " penalty " which is the "blood sacrifice" required by the "law" the "ten commanments", Even Christ Himself was slain by the law, the Ten commandments" not by any sin of His but by our own which was laid upon Him, whoch was then put to deathm, but the law is alive to you for you insist on resurecting it, even teh jews..

Rom 7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

And still the ten commandments hwree never given to us gentiles, we cam to Christ by grace alone

Rom_2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
Rom 2:15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another