Two Ways of thinking about OSAS

[Phoneman777]

So we are to tell if a person is saved by how good he/she is. Have you not read where even the Angels can not tell the children of God from the children of Satan?

Matt 13:24-30
The Parable of the Wheat and the Tares 24 Another parable He put forth to them, saying: "The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field;
25 but while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat and went his way.
26 But when the grain had sprouted and produced a crop, then the tares also appeared.
27 So the servants of the owner came and said to him, 'Sir, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then does it have tares?'
28 He said to them, 'An enemy has done this.' The servants said to him, 'Do you want us then to go and gather them up?'
29 But he said, 'No, lest while you gather up the tares you also uproot the wheat with them.
30 Let both grow together until the harvest, and at the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, "First gather together the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into my barn."'"
NKJV

It seems you've taken my proof text, incorrectly interpreted it, and then argued against what I never said in the first place. However, I'm a very patient man, so I'm happy to clarify for you:

1 John 2:3-4 KJV is not a test used to evaluate the Christianity of other people - it is a test in which we evaluate our own Christianity. The New Testament clearly commands the individual Christian to "examine himself to see if he be in the faith". John says "if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things" but "if our heart condemn us not, then have we confidence toward God."

The "heart" here is not referring to the thing in us that is "deceitful" and "desperately wicked", but is referring to the "conscience", that sense of right and wrong God gives to all of us. This heart knows when we drive past an indecently dressed girl on the street whether we turn to lust after her or resist the temptation to do so (adultery). It knows how prideful we are though we put on a false front of humility (covetousness). It knows whether we ask God to dismiss vengeful thoughts when we've been wronged or whether we indulge them with seething hatred (murder). It knows if the majority of our free time is occupied with Him or any of the many other distractions that Satan has made readily available for us (idolatry). It knows if we are either keeping or breaking His commandments and sadly, most know they are not, and with each searing hot iron application to his conscience, the modern day professing Christian is burning out the only means by which he can "examine himself, to see if he be in the faith."

 

[Dcopymope]

If you're not going to address my texts, then this is pointless, friend. The Bible is not a buffet line, where we pick and choose what we like. Again, "he that saith, "I know Him" and keepeth not His commandments is a liar and the truth is not in him." If you're next post does not address this verse, then I'll dust off the sandals and block you, which I really don't like to do.

It is stated in James 2 that if you follow the whole law and you break one of them, then that makes you guilty of all of them, of which no man has ever fulfilled but Jesus. So can you clarify which commandments you believe we are supposed to be following? Is It all 613 laws? Is it just the ten commandments? Or is it just the two that Jesus specified that fulfills the entire law which is to love God with your every spiritual and physical fiber and to love thy neighbor as you would yourself? It is made clear in Romans 13 that obeying these two commandments means that I'm also obeying the law to not commit adultery, to go after idols or other "gods", to covet my neighbors wife, steal, kill and bear false witness. Obeying those two means I am obeying all of them as I have no malicious intent towards anybody else that I would not want for myself.

 

[mjrhealth]

Rev_3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

And what PM are you going to say, when he says to you,

" I stood at your door and knocked and knocked and knocked, but you would not let Me in".

 

[heretoeternity]

That's right and being under grace means we're not under the law. 1 John 2:1-2

Wrong stan j....under grace we are forgiven of sins, but that should make us follow God's law...as Paul said "do we make void the law through Faith? God forbid. We establish the law" in Romans....
and also "it is not hearers of the law who are justified, but doers of the law who ae justified"...no shot circuit is availabe for salvation as you and your coherts are spouting about.

 

[H. Richard]

Wrong stan j....under grace we are forgiven of sins, but that should make us follow God's law...as Paul said "do we make void the law through Faith? God forbid. We establish the law" in Romans....
and also "it is not hearers of the law who are justified, but doers of the law who ae justified"...no shot circuit is availabe for salvation as you and your coherts are spouting about.

Gal 4:21-25 Two Covenants (Gen 21:8-21; Isa 54:1)
21 Tell me, you who desire to be under the law, do you not hear the law?
22 For it is written that Abraham had two sons: the one by a bondwoman, the other by a freewoman.
23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born according to the flesh, and he of the freewoman through promise,
24 which things are symbolic. For these are the two covenants: the one from Mount Sinai which gives birth to bondage, which is Hagar —
25 for this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia, and corresponds to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children —
NKJV

Gal 4:25-29
25 for this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia, and corresponds to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children —
26 but the Jerusalem above is free, which is the mother of us all.
27 For it is written: "Rejoice, O barren, You who do not bear! Break forth and shout, You who are not in labor! For the desolate has many more children Than she who has a husband."
28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are children of promise.
29 But, as he who was born according to the flesh then persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, even so it is now.
NKJV

 

[Dcopymope]

Gal 4:21-25 Two Covenants (Gen 21:8-21; Isa 54:1)
21 Tell me, you who desire to be under the law, do you not hear the law?
22 For it is written that Abraham had two sons: the one by a bondwoman, the other by a freewoman.
23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born according to the flesh, and he of the freewoman through promise,
24 which things are symbolic. For these are the two covenants: the one from Mount Sinai which gives birth to bondage, which is Hagar —
25 for this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia, and corresponds to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children —
NKJV

Gal 4:25-29
25 for this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia, and corresponds to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children —
26 but the Jerusalem above is free, which is the mother of us all.
27 For it is written: "Rejoice, O barren, You who do not bear! Break forth and shout, You who are not in labor! For the desolate has many more children Than she who has a husband."
28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are children of promise.
29 But, as he who was born according to the flesh then persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, even so it is now.
NKJV

In other words, we are not under the mount sanai Covenant, for we are set free under the new covenant and justified in the eyes of the Father by the Lord Jesus Christ. Nothing can separate us from the promise of redemption, from the love of God, as Paul made very clear in Romans 8. This is pretty self explanatory, but there are apparently some who believe they can justify themselves before the Father when it is our faith in Jesus and him alone that justifies.

 

[Dcopymope]

Edited due to duplicate post

 

[H. Richard]

In other words, we are not under the mount sanai Covenant, for we are set free under the new covenant and justified in the eyes of the Father by the Lord Jesus Christ. Nothing can separate us from the promise of redemption, from the love of God, as Paul made very clear in Romans 8. This is pretty self explanatory, but there are apparently some who believe they can justify themselves before the Father when it is our faith in Jesus and him alone that justifies.

Yes, and as verse 29 says it is the religious that have persecuted those of the Spirit.

Religion is all about what man does to please the god they think exists. Grace is all about what Jesus (God) did for man.

 

[mjrhealth]

Dcopymope

Agree. except since we where never under the law, the old covenant, since it was only given to teh Jews, we only ever had teh better covenant, given to all men, or should I say "offered" cause so many reject it.

 

[Phoneman777]

It is stated in James 2 that if you follow the whole law and you break one of them, then that makes you guilty of all of them, of which no man has ever fulfilled but Jesus. So can you clarify which commandments you believe we are supposed to be following? Is It all 613 laws? Is it just the ten commandments? Or is it just the two that Jesus specified that fulfills the entire law which is to love God with your every spiritual and physical fiber and to love thy neighbor as you would yourself? It is made clear in Romans 13 that obeying these two commandments means that I'm also obeying the law to not commit adultery, to go after idols or other "gods", to covet my neighbors wife, steal, kill and bear false witness. Obeying those two means I am obeying all of them as I have no malicious intent towards anybody else that I would not want for myself.

Happy to clarify: keep the eternal Law that God wrote on stone (Psalm 111:7-8 KJV) because if you break one, you're guilty of all. Anybody who says "I can't keep the law" demonstrates the same lack of faith as a woman hanging out of the window of a burning building who is too faithless to jump into the firemen's safety net and they will both burn up unless they learn to trust those who are trying to save them.

 

[Phoneman777]

Gal 4:21-25 Two Covenants (Gen 21:8-21; Isa 54:1)
21 Tell me, you who desire to be under the law, do you not hear the law?
22 For it is written that Abraham had two sons: the one by a bondwoman, the other by a freewoman.
23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born according to the flesh, and he of the freewoman through promise,
24 which things are symbolic. For these are the two covenants: the one from Mount Sinai which gives birth to bondage, which is Hagar —
25 for this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia, and corresponds to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children —
NKJV

Gal 4:25-29
25 for this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia, and corresponds to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children —
26 but the Jerusalem above is free, which is the mother of us all.
27 For it is written: "Rejoice, O barren, You who do not bear! Break forth and shout, You who are not in labor! For the desolate has many more children Than she who has a husband."
28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are children of promise.
29 But, as he who was born according to the flesh then persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, even so it is now.
NKJV

What's the definition of the New Covenant? Hint: Hebrew 8:8-10 KJV

 

[H. Richard]

What's the definition of the New Covenant? Hint: Hebrew 8:8-10 KJV

Heb 8:8-10
8 Because finding fault with them, He says: "Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah —
9 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they did not continue in My covenant, and I disregarded them, says the Lord.
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.
NKJV

The New Covenant that Paul was talking about was a new covenant for the house of Israel as verse 10 shows. It does not include Gentles. This is not the same as salvation that is now offered in this age of grace Under grace there is no requirement that a person keeps the law because all sins have been paid for those under grace.

This new covenant God will make with the house of Israel will come into being when Jesus sets up His Kingdom on this earth in Jerusalem.

 

[Phoneman777]

Heb 8:8-10
8 Because finding fault with them, He says: "Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah —
9 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they did not continue in My covenant, and I disregarded them, says the Lord.
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.
NKJV

The New Covenant that Paul was talking about was a new covenant for the house of Israel as verse 10 shows. It does not include Gentles. This is not the same as salvation that is now offered in this age of grace Under grace there is no requirement that a person keeps the law because all sins have been paid for those under grace.

This new covenant God will make with the house of Israel will come into being when Jesus sets up His Kingdom on this earth in Jerusalem.

I think you fail to realize that this Covenant mentioned here is the only covenant in the NT and you will search in vain for a so called "Gentile Covenant".

The "Israel" God speaks of in this Covenant has nothing to do with "literal Israel", but "spiritual Israel" - what Paul says we become when Christ takes ownership of our heart in Galatians 3:29 KJV: "If ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed and heirs according to the promise. Literal Israel is now not nor will ever be "Abraham's seed" as long as they refuse Christ's desire to take ownership of their hearts. You're preaching Dispensationalism which is a pile of worthless dung, friend. It's just not Scriptural.

Anyone who wants to be a New Covenant Christian has to become a Spiritual Jew to partake of that New Covenant. There is no more literal Jew and Gentile, friend, but we are all one - members of spiritual Israel - in Christ Jesus. And those who accept Christ will have the Ten Commandments written on their hearts by the Holy Spirit - those who refuse to keep the Ten Commandments will be found to be "liars and the truth is not in them."

 

[mjrhealth]

Ten Commandments written on their hearts by the Holy Spirit - those who refuse to keep the Ten Commandments will be found to be "liars and the truth is not in them."

So blind, you cant see can you, You are so blinded by your works that you cannot see what you are doing to Jesus. Have you not read revelation.

Rev_5:4 And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon.

For you see, if you where able to keep the law as you claim you can, than the this line would be a lie, for you would have being found worthy. For you see if you where able to keep teh law" perfectly" as Christ did, than your salvation would not be by grace through faith, but by your works through the law, In which all tha tChrist did would have being to no point, and all teh suffering he did for us would have all being in vain, and he would have being put to shame for a second time, because man would have being found to have power like God and therefore would not need God, and therefore instead of God receiving all the Glory and honour it would be you up on that pedestal, and satan would be laughing in Gods face.
I hopr you get your damasuc experience soon so that you can Know Him that is the truth.

But than the fact that you say you can is a lie so you in that one statement have already broken the law. The law is death to al lwho touch it but some prefer death than the life that is in Christ.

 

[heretoeternity]

MJR..you are still confused between the sacrificial laws of Moses and God's law, the Ten commandments...In Revelation 12 you will see salvation is "for those who have the testimony of Jesus,and follow God's commandments" and Revelation 22 Jesus says "behold I come quickly and my reward is with me or every man according to his WORKS" and James 2 says "faith without works is dead"

 

[mjrhealth]

MJR..you are still confused between the sacrificial laws of Moses and God's law, the Ten commandments...In Revelation 12 you will see salvation is "for those who have the testimony of Jesus,and follow God's commandments" and Revelation 22 Jesus says "behold I come quickly and my reward is with me or every man according to his WORKS" and James 2 says "faith without works is dea

No not one Bit,I know in whom my salvation lies, and it is not in any works of mine. see when I stand before Christ all I will be able to do is thank Him for all He did, I will have no works to boast of" Look Jesus look at me I kept the law, Am i not good, not like all those others??? Remind you of someone???

 

[H. Richard]

MJR..you are still confused between the sacrificial laws of Moses and God's law, the Ten commandments...In Revelation 12 you will see salvation is "for those who have the testimony of Jesus,and follow God's commandments" and Revelation 22 Jesus says "behold I come quickly and my reward is with me or every man according to his WORKS" and James 2 says "faith without works is dead"

If you think you are following God's commandment you are wishful thinking. There is not a person that can keep God's commandments. You are boasting if you claim to be doing so.

 

[heretoeternity]

If you think you are following God's commandment you are wishful thinking. There is not a person that can keep God's commandments. You are boasting if you claim to be doing so.

You and MJR ignore the Bible references I quoted..why? You cannot come up with a reply...
You too, are confused between the Mosaic sacrificial law, which they had a hard time keeping, and God's ten commandments which are easy to keep, if you are spirit filled...Jesus said "if you love me keep my commandments" and "to enter into life keep the commandments Matthew 19 and John 14.15 and He identiies these as the ten commandments..of course you can keep them, unless of course you are under the influence of satan and his teachings which it appears you are.

 

[H. Richard]

You and MJR ignore the Bible references I quoted..why? You cannot come up with a reply...
You too, are confused between the Mosaic sacrificial law, which they had a hard time keeping, and God's ten commandments which are easy to keep, if you are spirit filled...Jesus said "if you love me keep my commandments" and "to enter into life keep the commandments Matthew 19 and John 14.15 and He identiies these as the ten commandments..of course you can keep them, unless of course you are under the influence of satan and his teachings which it appears you are.

All are under sin:

It was asked by someone “would God ask us to do what we couldn’t do?“

The answer is yes, He asked the Jews to keep the Law of Moses. However, when they, the Jews, killed their Messiah (Jesus) He concluded that no man could keep the Law of Moses and He had another plan to save sinful men, a plan to shed the blood of His righteous Son on the cross to pay for the sins of mankind.

Romans 3:9-10
9 What then? Are we better than they? Not at all. For we have previously charged both Jews and Greeks that they are all under sin.
10 As it is written: "There is none righteous, no, not one;
NKJV

Galatians 3:21-26
21 Is the law then against the promises of God? Certainly not! For if there had been a law given which could have given life, truly righteousness would have been by the law.
22 But the Scripture has confined all under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.
23 But before faith came, we were kept under guard by the law, kept for the faith which would afterward be revealed.
24 Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.
26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.
NKJV

In this age of God’s grace salvation in not obtained by “not sinning in the flesh.” It is only obtained by a person placing their belief in the work of God on the cross. That means for a person to deny that they can do anything righteous to save him/her self and to simply place all their faith, trust, confidence and hope in what Jesus did on the cross. To claim His work on our behalf is our salvation. Jesus (God) gets all the glory and praise.

In this age of God’s grace all God asks a person to do is trust in His plan of salvation by placing their faith in His Son’s work on the cross. It is the only way that a person can be saved and yet many do not believe it is that simple.

2 Corinthians 11:3
3 But I fear, lest somehow, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, so your minds may be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
NKJV

 

[heretoeternity]

You appear to be still confused by the law of Moses, the sacrificial etc laws (613) which were temporary, and the ten commandments written by God personally and are permanent.
Paul said in Romans "it is NOT hearers of the law that are justified, but DOERS of the law" That should be clear enough for anyone to understand..also in Romans Paul said "do we make void the law through fath? God forbid. We ESTABLISH the law.