Tzitzit and Tallit, the Command to Wear a Four Cornered Garment with Fringes

[cgneustar]

Send us some clothing with fringes and maybe we will wear it.

As it is, I do not have access to any of this, and by you am condemned over it.

Read Romans 7:6 to find that we are not bound by the letter of the law (for it kills, 2 Corinthians 3:6), but are to be obedient to the spirit of it; which is love.

Make your own tallit. I provide instructions on my website on how to make them.

 

[cgneustar]

Salvation, my friend, begins by faith, ends with faith, and is by faith all the way through, Romans 1:17, Colossians 2:6, Galatians 3:1-3.

Once we begin to believe in Jesus, we do not switch over to being saved through keeping the law. See also Galatians 2:16.

If keeping the Torah was not necessary after believing, the apostles would not have also said, "adulterers and homosexuals will not inherit the kingdom of God", in relation to "you shall not murder" and "a man shall not lie with a man as he does a woman" that are written in the Torah, for obedience to the commands of God after believing is indeed necessary. You err in your understanding of the truth, because of your refusal to want to obey the Law of God, which therefore makes you "lawless". You bring condemnation on yourself, hence "depart from me, you workers of lawlessness".

 

[justbyfaith]

You are trying to make Jews out of Christians; much like the Judaizers that Paul had to deal with (see Galatians) who were preaching a different gospel; and of whom Paul the apostle said, "let them be accursed."

We serve in newness of spirit and not in the oldness of the letter, Romans 7:6.

Love is the fulfilling of the law, Romans 13:8-10, Galatians 5:14, Matthew 22:36-40.

Jesus said to the scribes and Pharisees that they were straining at a gnat and swallowing a camel.

They tithed even of their mints and herbs; but neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faith. This they ought to have done without leaving the other undone.

Nevertheless I will point out to you that there is no condemnation for them who are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit.

And what this means is that the law, which was 430 years after the covenant promise, cannot disanull the promise of the Holy Spirit.

Therefore we are not condemned over failing to keep the law in every letter; unless we are seeking to be justified by the law: in which case even your violations of the law before you knew any better do still count as sins that will condemn you on your day of judgment.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Indeed the Torah must be kept perfectly, which is done by ceasing to break the Torah, then through belief in Yeshuah, which results then results in receiving the airflow of God, which cuts away sin in the inward man, thus causing the man to obey the Torah perfectly, hence, "and I will put my airflow within you and cause you to walk in my statutes". But if you live your life thinking the Torah has been done away with, you will never receive the airflow of God, no matter how much you claim to believe in Yeshuah whom you erroneously call "jesus".

Ah...every time I hear this argument, I remember from the Torah that you must not muzzle an ox while it is treading out the grain. Then I remember Paul explaining some of the spirit of the word and then asking: you don't suppose God was really talking about oxen there, do you?

 

[justbyfaith]

You bring condemnation on yourself, hence "depart from me, you workers of lawlessness".

Actually, in the faithful rendering (kjv), the word is "iniquity" which relates to inward unrighteousness rather than failing in an outward observance of keeping the law.

Because also, no flesh will be justified in His sight by the keeping of the law. That is clear from such passages as Galatians 2:16 and Romans 3:20.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Actually, in the faithful rendering (kjv), the word is "iniquity" which relates to inward unrighteousness rather than failing in an outward observance of keeping the law.

Because also, no flesh will be justified in His sight by the keeping of the law. That is clear from such passages as Galatians 2:16 and Romans 3:20.

You were perfect...until iniquity was found IN you...

 

[justbyfaith]

Make your own tallit. I provide instructions on my website on how to make them.

No, you make it for me. I am not compelled to even wear it because of the truth of scripture that is clear in Romans 6:14, Romans 7:4, Romans 7:6, Galatians 2:19, Ephesians 2:15-16, Colossians 2:14, and Hebrews 7:18.

So why would I go to the trouble of even making it?

There is probably a cost to getting it to stick to the shirts that I normally wear.

Because I want to be great in the kingdom, I may eventually decide to go to the trouble of doing all of that.

But while observance of the law has a bearing on our greatness in the kingdom, it has no bearing on our salvation; unless, as I said before, we are seeking to be justified by the law: in which case, you have fallen from grace since you are required to keep the law perfectly from conception to eternity (Galatians 3:10, James 2:10, Matthew 5:48) and I am pretty certain that you have not done that; since you were born naked and therefore failed to keep the requirement of wearing titzit and tallit the moment you were born.

 

[cgneustar]

You are trying to make Jews out of Christians; much like the Judaizers that Paul had to deal with (see Galatians) who were preaching a different gospel; and of whom Paul the apostle said, "let them be accursed."

We serve in newness of spirit and not in the oldness of the letter, Romans 7:6.

Love is the fulfilling of the law, Romans 13:8-10, Galatians 5:14, Matthew 22:36-40.

Jesus said to the scribes and Pharisees that they were straining at a gnat and swallowing a camel.

They tithed even of their mints and herbs; but neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faith. This they ought to have done without leaving the other undone.

Nevertheless I will point out to you that there is no condemnation for them who are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit.

And what this means is that the law, which was 430 years after the covenant promise, cannot disanull the promise of the Holy Spirit.

Therefore we are not condemned over failing to keep the law in every letter; unless we are seeking to be justified by the law: in which case even your violations of the law before you knew any better do still count as sins that will condemn you on your day of judgment.

"Judaizing" is not teaching the Torah, which is still binding, it is teaching matters of Torah that are no longer required, like circumcision of the flesh and observing Shabbaths. You err in your understanding of Torah, and rather than understand that certain matters of Torah are no longer required, you have discarded the entire Torah, and have subsequently become lawless, to your own demise. The Torah Has Not Been Abolished | Wisdom of God .

 

[Episkopos]

A Christian is not to be under the law of Moses. Being under grace means a change from doing things in our own strength to being empowered by the Spirit...to worship God in the Spirit.

This whole bent of doing Judaism has been done away with in Christ. Look instead to what the spiritual significance is for the true fulfillment of the law. No one is justified by the law any longer. It is a rejection of grace and the power of God to look to the continued reliance on human means.

There are many ways to miss the new life in the Spirit. The oldest and most basic error is trying to put old wine in new wineskins.Trying to fit OT ordinances into a spiritual walk.

You can't walk in the Spirit AND try to observe holiness (set-apart) laws meant to be obeyed in one's own power. ALL the holiness laws are now brought together in this one place...to abide in Christ. He is our holiness, our perfection.

The perfect has come. We no longer look to shadows and religious activities that serve as markers for something else.

Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. But that doesn't seem to stop the OP from a return to the past.

 

[cgneustar]

Ah...every time I hear this argument, I remember from the Torah that you must not muzzle an ox while it is treading out the grain. Then I remember Paul explaining some of the spirit of the word and then asking: you don't suppose God was really talking about oxen there, do you?

The command was given for greater reasons than only for the sake of oxen, to wisely reveal that a man is worthy to live by what he labors in. Even so, an ox must still not be muzzled while it is laboring in obedience to the command, for doing so is logically evil, to refuse an ox the ability to eat while it is working, for what is good and evil is not just how we treat each other, but also how we treat our animals, which is why it is written, "a righteous man considers the life of his animal".

 

[cgneustar]

Actually, in the faithful rendering (kjv), the word is "iniquity" which relates to inward unrighteousness rather than failing in an outward observance of keeping the law.

Because also, no flesh will be justified in His sight by the keeping of the law. That is clear from such passages as Galatians 2:16 and Romans 3:20.

No, the Greek word is "anomia", which means LAW-LESSNESS, for the Greek word "nomia" means law. Not only do you reject the obvious truth, but you also seek to find mistranslations to twist and discard the truth.

 

[cgneustar]

No, you make it for me. I am not compelled to even wear it because of the truth of scripture that is clear in Romans 6:14, Romans 7:4, Romans 7:6, Galatians 2:19, Ephesians 2:15-16, Colossians 2:14, and Hebrews 7:18.

So why would I go to the trouble of even making it?

There is probably a cost to getting it to stick to the shirts that I normally wear.

Because I want to be great in the kingdom, I may eventually decide to go to the trouble of doing all of that.

But while observance of the law has a bearing on our greatness in the kingdom, it has no bearing on our salvation; unless, as I said before, we are seeking to be justified by the law: in which case, you have fallen from grace since you are required to keep the law perfectly from conception to eternity (Galatians 3:10, James 2:10, Matthew 5:48) and I am pretty certain that you have not done that; since you were born naked and therefore failed to keep the requirement of wearing titzit and tallit the moment you were born.

Why would I make it for you if you refuse to believe that you must wear it? It would be like me sewing an elaborate dress for a bride knowing that she is going cancel her wedding and throw the dress in the garbage. I have given you knowledge of the command, now you choose whether to fulfill the command or not, that is your problem, not mine.

 

[cgneustar]

A Christian is not to be under the law of Moses. Being under grace means a change from doing things in our own strength to being empowered by the Spirit...to worship God in the Spirit.

This whole bent of doing Judaism has been done away with in Christ. Look instead to what the spiritual significance is for the true fulfillment of the law. No one is justified by the law any longer. It is a rejection of grace and the power of God to look to the continued reliance on human means.

There are many ways to miss the new life in the Spirit. The oldest and most basic error is trying to put old wine in new wineskins.Trying to fit OT ordinances into a spiritual walk.

You can't walk in the Spirit AND try to observe holiness (set-apart) laws meant to be obeyed in one's own power. ALL the holiness laws are now brought together in this one place...to abide in Christ. He is our holiness, our perfection.

The perfect has come. We no longer look to shadows and religious activities that serve as markers for something else.

Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. But that doesn't seem to stop the OP from a return to the past.

Being under favor does not nullify Torah, hence, "do we then nullify the Torah by this belief? By no means, we uphold Torah".

 

[stunnedbygrace]

The command was given for greater reasons than only for the sake of oxen, to wisely reveal that a man is worthy to live by what he labors in. Even so, an ox must still not be muzzled while it is laboring in obedience to the command, for doing so is logically evil, to refuse an ox the ability to eat while it is working, for what is good and evil is not just how we treat each other, but also how we treat our animals, which is why it is written, "a righteous man considers the life of his animal".

If you want to try to please God by insisting on keeping the outside of your cup clean, then you should continue that way. But if the inside is clean, the outside just will be as well. And we can't clean the inside, it is the work of the Spirit in us. A man who has had the Holy Spirit doing His wonderful work inside would not abuse his animals anyway. But you should continue doing what you think is right. No truly free man will listen to you. A younger one may though, so it is possible you will make a proselyte for a while, but the Spirit will correct him eventually.

 

[Episkopos]

Being under favor does not nullify Torah, hence, "do we then nullify the Torah by this belief? By no means, we uphold Torah".

Grace fulfills the righteousness of the torah....not the works of the Torah. It is the Spirit that gives life not the letter of the T

You are doing the works of the Torah in your own strength thinking there is justification there. But these all point o walking with Jesus in the Spirit. So you still in denial of Christ by going after the law.

 

[quietthinker]

The command of God is what sets us apart, not whatever you do on your own to set yourself apart, hence,

and you shall guard my Torot and do them. I am Yehovah, who sets you apart.
Leviticus 20:8

You refuse to obey the commands of God because of your own ignorance and because you do not want to obey. As such, not every command of the Torah is a shadow command, such as the commands related to the Passover, some commands of the Torah are literal and plain, and must be obeyed as such, such as "you shall bind the words of God on your forehead and hand" and "you shall not murder" and "you shall wear fringes on the four corners of your garment". Why is this so difficult to understand?

You make your phylacteries wide but omit the weightier matters of justice and mercy....Jesus

I have ears when questions asked are explained in a way that knits the scriptures intent together. No explanation or arbitrary and disjointed statements have no drawing power for me.

 

[cgneustar]

If you want to try to please God by insisting on keeping the outside of your cup clean, then you should continue that way. But if the inside is clean, the outside just will be as well. And we can't clean the inside, it is the work of the Spirit in us. A man who has had the Holy Spirit doing His wonderful work inside would not abuse his animals anyway. But you should continue doing what you think is right. No truly free man will listen to you. A younger one may though, so it is possible you will make a proselyte for a while, but the Spirit will correct him eventually.

Obeying the Torah is a matter of cleaning the outside and also the inside, for the Torah not only says "you shall not commit adultery", but also "you shall not covet your neighbor's wife", which are matters of the both inward and also outward man.

 

[cgneustar]

You make your phylacteries wide but omit the weightier matters of justice and mercy....Jesus

I have ears when questions asked are explained in a way that knits the scriptures intent together. No explanation or arbitrary and disjointed statements have no drawing power for me.

Clearly you did not read the part where the Messiah says to do the weightier matters of the Torah without neglecting the former lesser matters of the Torah. The weightier matters of the Torah are doing good works, whereas the lesser matters of the Torah are wearing phylacteries and tallit.

 

[cgneustar]

Grace fulfills the righteousness of the torah....not the works of the Torah. It is the Spirit that gives life not the letter of the T

You are doing the works of the Torah in your own strength thinking there is justification there. But these all point o walking with Jesus in the Spirit. So you still in denial of Christ by going after the law.

Favor does not nullify Torah, for without Torah you no longer walk under favor, but under wrath, for walking without Torah is lawlessness. Yet he who walks under the airflow of God fulfills the Torah, yet in neither case is the Law of God discarded.

 

[quietthinker]

Clearly you did not read the part where the Messiah says to do the weightier matters of the Torah without neglecting the former lesser matters of the Torah. The weightier matters of the Torah are doing good works, whereas the lesser matters of the Torah are wearing phylacteries and tallit.

cgneustar....it is where our emphasis is that reveals our core.