Under a curse

[H. Richard]

Do you know that those who add works to the Gospel of grace are under a curse? I am not talking about the traits of the children of God which are a result of the Holy Spirit within them. I am talking about salvation.

There were believing Jews (they believed that Jesus was their Messiah and King) that followed after Paul teaching that Paul’s convert must be circumcised and keep the law of Moses.

Acts 15:5
5 But some of the sect of the Pharisees who believed rose up, saying, "It is necessary to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses."
NKJV

This is obviously the message that James is teaching when he said faith without works is dead (see James 2:1-26 and Acts 21:20).

Acts 21:20-21
20 And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord. And they said to him, "You see, brother, how many myriads of Jews there are who have believed, and they are all zealous for the law;
21 but they have been informed about you that you teach all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children nor to walk according to the customs.
NKJV

Paul’s Gospel of grace excluded the works of the Law of Moses. Under Paul’s Gospel God did for mankind all that is necessary for their salvation. But faith in His work is required.

Most do not know that Paul cursed those who tried to put those under grace back under the law as taught by James in James 2:1-26. But here it is.

Gal 1:6-9 --- Only One Gospel
6 I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel,
7 which is not another; but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ.
8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed.
9 As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed.
NKJV

When works are added to grace there is a curse on those that do it. I didn’t write it, Paul did.

 

[bbyrd009]

ok, everybody put down your cross, and stop following, i guess

 

[ScottA]

Do you know that those who add works to the Gospel of grace are under a curse? I am not talking about the traits of the children of God which are a result of the Holy Spirit within them. I am talking about salvation.

There were believing Jews (they believed that Jesus was their Messiah and King) that followed after Paul teaching that Paul’s convert must be circumcised and keep the law of Moses.

Acts 15:5
5 But some of the sect of the Pharisees who believed rose up, saying, "It is necessary to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses."
NKJV

This is obviously the message that James is teaching when he said faith without works is dead (see James 2:1-26 and Acts 21:20).

Acts 21:20-21
20 And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord. And they said to him, "You see, brother, how many myriads of Jews there are who have believed, and they are all zealous for the law;
21 but they have been informed about you that you teach all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children nor to walk according to the customs.
NKJV

Paul’s Gospel of grace excluded the works of the Law of Moses. Under Paul’s Gospel God did for mankind all that is necessary for their salvation. But faith in His work is required.

Most do not know that Paul cursed those who tried to put those under grace back under the law as taught by James in James 2:1-26. But here it is.

Gal 1:6-9 --- Only One Gospel
6 I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel,
7 which is not another; but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ.
8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed.
9 As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed.
NKJV

When works are added to grace there is a curse on those that do it. I didn’t write it, Paul did.

There is a problem that occurs even to this day, that comes from the varied truth from God during that transitional time of Christ. In other words, they preached to those of the Old Covenant, to those of the New Covenant, and to some teetering on the cusp.

So, then, as we read of those times, one is not true and the other wrong...but if we are to understand correctly, we must "rightly divide the word of truth" into the correct context for where we are (as opposed to where the scripture was directed). We each live and come to God in our own time. Therefore, a word to one who is new to the faith, is elementary, but to one who is mature, the message is more complex and more advanced. Thus, it is evident in Paul's writings in particular, that he taught and preached on multiple levels.

We all, therefore, should be sensitive to these multiple levels in which any group of believers are at any given time...and realize that what is right or wrong for one level, may not be for another level, but is rather just out of step. By the grace of God, we have all been allotted our own time, and we should not forsake His timing with regard to others.

So, when Paul speaks of "another gospel", he is not referring to the variables that we all may squabble over, but rather those that do not line up at any level. For such, he, and we, are right to call out rebuke. And yet, in grace, we should as much as come to the aid of those struggling at any given level, not expecting them to fully grasp what they have yet to see. All in God's perfect timing.

 

[ScottA]

ok, everybody put down your cross, and stop following, i guess

If we are coming to the cross, we should take it up.

But if we are dying on the cross or not yet risen from the grave, there is a time where we do not put down the cross, but are taken down from it.

If then, we have risen from the dead a new creation, the cross is behind us, never to be taken up again. Hallelujah!

 

[bbyrd009]

hmm. Imo that might be mixing metaphors a bit too much. Got any Scripture for that?

If then, we have risen from the dead a new creation, the cross is behind us, never to be taken up again.

 

[bbyrd009]

5 But some of the sect of the Pharisees who believed rose up, saying, "It is necessary to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses."
NKJV

This is obviously the message that James is teaching when he said faith without works is dead (see James 2:1-26 and Acts 21:20).

why obviously? i do not see the slightest connection, and i'm trying. ty

 

[Job]

Gal 1:6-9 --- Only One Gospel
6 I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel,
7 which is not another; but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ.
8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed.
9 As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed.
NKJV

Does that include your "hidden gospel"?

 

[bbyrd009]

pretty hard to even define Gospel lol

 

[Helen]

My two cents is that once we get in one camp or the other, we hit a problem. It is not a case of either v or, but both!!
It's not Grace OR Works...it is both. God has done the saving, but we must do the responding.

Only at lunch today someone was going on about Grace...I stopped him and said- " That is unbalanced...it is not law or grace. It is again BOTH."
Grace with no accountability is just licence for the flesh.
If we are mature we live in total grace which is harnessed by love!!
Because we love God, we will not live under the law because Jesus came to deliver us and supersede the law. ( into the law of love which is restraint)
Grace with accountability is because we love Him and are accountable to Him and have chosen to walk in His ways.....love and separation to Him.

Just my two cents.

 

[ScottA]

hmm. Imo that might be mixing metaphors a bit too much. Got any Scripture for that?

Ephesians 2:5-7
5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.

2 Corinthians 5:17 [Full Chapter]
Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.

Galatians 6:14
But God forbid that I should boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.

...all past tense.

 

[FHII]

When works are added to grace there is a curse on those that do it. I didn’t write it, Paul did.

Absolutely agree. You have done a wonderful job in the past of laying out the truth about James. Maybe its time again.

James (the half natural brother of Jesus) was a good man. But he did not fully understand or believe the message of grace. There was controversy between him and Paul.

Many will say, "well you are saying there is error in the Bible! You are saying the Bible condradicts itself!" no. Not if the Bible explains it and shows it.

Which in the case of James v. Paul... It does.

 

[Helen]

H. Richard said: ↑
When works are added to grace there is a curse on those that do it. I didn’t write it, Paul did.

True, but lets remember, that is to do with our initial salvation only.
If not it becomes a licence to the flesh. God expects to see good fruit also as we abide in the vine.

 

[FHII]

True, but lets remember, that is to do with our initial salvation only.
If not it becomes a licence to the flesh. God expects to see good fruit also as we abide in the vine.

Have you ever heard the phrase that grace is not a license to sin? Kbow who said that first?

John Calvin! That makes for fun trivia, don't it? All these folks whining about Calvinism...

I don't agree with it. We don't need a license to do what we are going to do by nature. All things are lawful, but not all things are expedient. Bottom line.

 

[bbyrd009]

Ephesians 2:5-7
5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.

2 Corinthians 5:17 [Full Chapter]
Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.

Galatians 6:14
But God forbid that I should boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.

...all past tense.

hmm. I'll have to think on that, i'm still not sure this is license to lay one's cross down, so to speak.

 

[bbyrd009]

Which in the case of James v. Paul... It does.

oh please, you could omit James and still have plenty of evidence for works being a necessary result of grace imo

 

[H. Richard]

oh please, you could omit James and still have plenty of evidence for works being a necessary result of grace imo

***

If works are necessary then you have added works to faith.

 

[H. Richard]

License to Sin:

I teach the freedom that the children of God “IN CHRIST” have. That they are set free from the sins that are committed in their flesh. The religious will always through out the charge of “having a license to sin.

If a religious person was honest they would see that committing sins of the flesh and then pulling out their get out of sin “repentance” card is the same thing, their license to sin all they want to.

Think about it.

 

[H. Richard]

hmm. I'll have to think on that, i'm still not sure this is license to lay one's cross down, so to speak.

***
Why can't you see that when a person commits to faith in what Jesus did on the cross they are carrying that cross. Those that add man's works are not carrying Jesus' cross. Jesus' work on the cross is a free gift and can not be earned by man's work.

 

[H. Richard]

Absolutely agree. You have done a wonderful job in the past of laying out the truth about James. Maybe its time again.

James (the half natural brother of Jesus) was a good man. But he did not fully understand or believe the message of grace. There was controversy between him and Paul.

Many will say, "well you are saying there is error in the Bible! You are saying the Bible condradicts itself!" no. Not if the Bible explains it and shows it.

Which in the case of James v. Paul... It does.

***
If a person really reads James 2:1-26 for what it says they would see that James is teaching the Law of Moses.

 

[ScottA]

hmm. I'll have to think on that, i'm still not sure this is license to lay one's cross down, so to speak.

The only need to ponder, is to realize that if we are "with Christ" and He "with us", then He (and we with Him) have not only been taken down from the cross, but have been raised up unto new life. In other words, it is [only] right to take up our cross to the point of death. But when we have raised from the dead by the power of God in Christ, we are to rise up.

In the first Adam (that being the man of flesh), we go to the cross. But in the last Adam, the old Adam has been put to death, and we are a new creation - and so should we walk and live, which is our living testimony. We live in the times of the last Adam, the life giving spirit, whom is Christ...and yet, if we insist on living as the first Adam, holding on to the flesh (even the cross), our life and end is limited to: "it is appointed once to die."